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Cabinet members and junior ministers are expected to vote on every whipped vote, not just the three-line whips. Three line whips are meant to be statements from the party leadership that "you better have a drat good reason for not voting our way or we're kicking you out of the group". Accordingly, they are meant to be incredibly rare – normally on budgets, confidence votes, and major legislation only. In one famous case from the seventies, Callaghan had to have an MP in intensive care driven to the Palace of Westminster in an ambulance to stave off a no-confidence vote. TinTower fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 04:32
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How often does the opposition impose a three line whip to vote with the government?
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Feb 12, 2017 07:12
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Pretty sure Corbyn would respect anyone a little more for breaking the whip if they believe it's right to do so. Setting precedent for ignoring the process might be a minor goal of his.
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Feb 12, 2017 08:01
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TheRat posted:I dont really get it. Everyone knew Trump was going to be batshit insane. How does Trump turning out to be, surprise surprise, batshit insane change anything? Are we supposed to think that Clinton is a saint now? To alot of establishment types/neo-liberals and Clinton backers, they find it both a vindication of their support for the lesser evil and that since Trump is bad, that means Clinton is infact good. Better does not = good, fucknuts. In this case it just means a bit less bad.
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Feb 12, 2017 08:53
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I think Clinton would definitely have been a lot less bad than Trump is tbf.
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Feb 12, 2017 09:13
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Verizian posted:Pretty sure Corbyn would respect anyone a little more for breaking the whip if they believe it's right to do so. obviously he never held a (shadow) ministerial position to quit from, but did Corbyn ever actually defy a 3 line whip himself? hansard doesn't record how parties instructed so it's a bit hard to check without digging through 30 years of newspaper reports. this sounds like some "11th dimensional chess" nonsense. whether Corbyn's planned to undermine his own party leadership all along, or just bottled on following through after the vote, the effect is the same. the only precedent is that he looks silly. whoever - left, right or centrist - takes over after he's gone isn't going to feel bound to ignore their own instructions because Corbyn did once.
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Feb 12, 2017 09:20
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yesterday's guardian had a funny interview with Jess Philips (who has a book out to plug) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/11/jess-phillips-mp-never-felt-scared-old-job quote:Knee-deep in profanity, the MP has mocked the unsayable stupidity of the public (“I enjoy taking people on on Twitter, because often I’m cleverer and funnier”), sworn about her children and been rude about her parliamentary colleagues (“They say, ‘I never hear you speaking about such and such,’” she mimics in a prissy voice. “As if that means I’m not allowed to talk about anything.” Rolling her eyes, she snorts and retorts, “Hmm, well, I never hear you speaking about anything interesting.”). I’m not entirely surprised: when Diane Abbott once unwisely tried to put her down in a meeting with, “You’re not the only feminist in the PLP,” Phillips told her to gently caress off. The MP later remarked: “People said to me they had always wanted to say that to her, and I don’t know why they don’t, as the opportunity presents itself every other minute.”
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Feb 12, 2017 09:27
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Pissflaps posted:I think Clinton would definitely have been a lot less bad than Trump is tbf. This is a lot funnier though
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Feb 12, 2017 09:48
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I don't think what's happening in America is 'funny'.
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Feb 12, 2017 09:50
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Same, but in regards to The Office
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Feb 12, 2017 09:55
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think what's happening in America is 'funny'. In the middle of his intelligence briefing the president of the USA tweeted angrily about a retailer dropping his daughters brand
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Feb 12, 2017 10:21
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Ratjaculation posted:Same, but in regards to The Office Are you talking about the US version cuz I've never seen it
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Feb 12, 2017 10:24
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think what's happening in America is 'funny'. Something can be funny and scary and depressing at the same time. Don't you think the President of the United States interrupting his prayer breakfast to deliver sick burns to Arnold Schwarzenegger over TV ratings or claiming to have the largest inauguration attendance ever despite all pictorial evidence to the opposite is amusing?
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Feb 12, 2017 10:27
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fridge corn posted:Are you talking about the US version cuz I've never seen it Yeah. It's not terrible by any means, in fact it's an enjoyable show. But it is not The Office imo How's it going anyway corn?
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Feb 12, 2017 10:30
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Is Trump going to meet some veterans and do this to them?
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Feb 12, 2017 10:41
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Gallows humour can be funny but it's not worth dying for.
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Feb 12, 2017 10:52
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Cerv posted:obviously he never held a (shadow) ministerial position to quit from, but did Corbyn ever actually defy a 3 line whip himself? hansard doesn't record how parties instructed so it's a bit hard to check without digging through 30 years of newspaper reports. I am 90% sure the Iraq War vote was a 3 line whip.
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Feb 12, 2017 11:46
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Cerv posted:yesterday's guardian had a funny interview with Jess Philips (who has a book out to plug) I only really know Jess Phillips from her appearances on Question Time, Have I Got News For You and the the occasional misc TV appearance, but I thought that line was interesting, since she's always come across (at least to me) as one of those MPs - and media pundits in general - who think they're being a lot cleverer and funnier than they are. [edit: FWIW I don't know what she's like on twitter, and her political opinions seem pretty good in general] Niric fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 11:54
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forkboy84 posted:I am 90% sure the Iraq War vote was a 3 line whip. yeah it was. forgot about that one 
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Feb 12, 2017 12:11
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Niric posted:
Jess Phillips seems like the sort of person who is out to promote Jess Phillips rather than kind of policy platform. From repeatedly bragging about how she told someone to 'gently caress off', to repeatedly threatening to quit if Corbyn remained leader and never actually quitting, most of what she does seems designed to make sure she gets far more media attention than a backbencher deserves. She's basically set herself up as someone the media can rely on to slag off Corbyn/fellow MPs/Labour on demand, so she is officially Their Friend. I've yet to see her use that attention for anything particularly productive. e: Also I see that The Times published a leaked focus group where Angela Rayner was described as 'a bit charity-shop looking'. Which is apparently a Serious Political Opinion that needs to be taken Seriously, rather than personal abuse that would be condemned if it happened on Twitter. At what point can you tell a focus group participant to gently caress off rather than validating their poo poo opinion by publishing it in a national newspaper? jabby fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 12:13
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jabby posted:e: Also I see that The Times published a leaked focus group where Angela Rayner was described as 'a bit charity-shop looking'. Which is apparently a Serious Political Opinion that needs to be taken Seriously, rather than personal abuse that would be condemned if it happened on Twitter. At what point can you tell a focus group participant to gently caress off rather than validating their poo poo opinion by publishing it in a national newspaper? I know I just had a go at Jess Phillips, but reading that report (or at least the Graun's version of that report) makes you realise how poo poo it must be to be an MP sometimes. Imagine going into work and being told by your boss that people think you're “not likeable”, a “bit charity shop-looking” and “weird”, and then after that bit of self-esteem demolition having it splashed across the national news a few days later.
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Feb 12, 2017 13:24
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Guys I just booked my hospital appointment for a heart attack I'm going to have in 45 years GET IT? Its because the queues are poo poo and the tories are cunts
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Feb 12, 2017 13:29
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jabby posted:Jess Phillips seems like the sort of person who is out to promote Jess Phillips rather than kind of policy platform. From repeatedly bragging about how she told someone to 'gently caress off', to repeatedly threatening to quit if Corbyn remained leader and never actually quitting, most of what she does seems designed to make sure she gets far more media attention than a backbencher deserves. She's basically set herself up as someone the media can rely on to slag off Corbyn/fellow MPs/Labour on demand, so she is officially Their Friend. I've yet to see her use that attention for anything particularly productive. I mean to be fair she's literally using it today to rip into David Davis for his appalling behaviour towards Diane Abbot, and this isn't the only time I've seen her launch a broadside at the actual baddies. I also do find her relatively direct style of writing and willingness to call bullshit on things quite endearing and effective. I'm not disagreeing that she puts way too much of her effort into slagging off the labour leadership, just recognising that she clearly can use her talents effectively for good and it's kind of a shame that she mostly doesn't.
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Feb 12, 2017 13:58
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How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians.
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Feb 12, 2017 14:53
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He takes his job as speaker and the neutrality that goes with that seriously. He's a Tory but seemingly one who believes in what he does.
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Feb 12, 2017 14:56
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Pochoclo posted:How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:03
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OwlFancier posted:He's a Tory but seemingly one who believes in what he does. Jeremy Hunt seems to believe in his remit to blow up the NHS
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Feb 12, 2017 15:13
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Pissflaps is just jealous that Trump is better at twitter than him, and is a better troll than him.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:16
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Yes but Jeremy Hunt's job isn't arbiter of the commons. Speaker is a good job and people who do it properly are good public servants.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:17
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https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/830701303026167808 Interesting to see how this works out for them.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:28
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LemonDrizzle posted:He used to be more Farage than Farage - in his youth he was a member of the Monday Club and called for things like hanging Nelson Mandela and "involuntary repatriation" of non-white immigrants. He's since renounced those views. Apparently his change in worldview coincided with his marriage. Apparently his wife was a Labour supporter.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:36
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Fangz posted:https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/830701303026167808 "Hello dear!" "Did you get the milk, bread, and Article 50 bill amendments?" "Even better than that..."
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Feb 12, 2017 15:38
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Pochoclo posted:How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians. The majority of Tories loving despise him, so that's a plus. He does, however, have a deep!y, deeply stupid wife.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:51
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Fangz posted:https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/830701303026167808 The fact they've styled their targeted anti-UKIP leaflet like a tabloid is both grimly hilarious and darkly genius
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Feb 12, 2017 15:52
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jabby posted:At what point can you tell a focus group participant to gently caress off rather than validating their poo poo opinion by publishing it in a national newspaper?
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Feb 12, 2017 16:11
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Trickjaw posted:The majority of Tories loving despise him, so that's a plus. He does, however, have a deep!y, deeply stupid wife. He's done quite a lot of work to try to engage young people with politics generally, since he's concerned about low turnout among young eligible voters. The Tories hate him for a couple of other reasons as well, such as crossing the floor to Labour (before he became Speaker) and his refusal to tolerate some of the more 'Tory' behaviour in the Commons. Even more so than usual, if a Tory MP is complaining about Bercow, you should just assume the Tory is just whining.
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Feb 12, 2017 16:14
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jabby posted:e: Also I see that The Times published a leaked focus group where Angela Rayner was described as 'a bit charity-shop looking'. Which is apparently a Serious Political Opinion that needs to be taken Seriously, rather than personal abuse that would be condemned if it happened on Twitter. At what point can you tell a focus group participant to gently caress off rather than validating their poo poo opinion by publishing it in a national newspaper? Bring in the candidates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIQ7quNYaIw
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Feb 12, 2017 16:28
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Pochoclo posted:How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians. If all Tories were like him I'd simply disagree with them rather than hating the Tories with a passion. He seems quite forthright and sincere. From what I recall he's one of those who've been earmarked as "might end up crossing the floor", although at this juncture I'm sure it'd be suicide as the press would cry "HE WAS A LIBORE SPY UNDERCOVER ALL ALONG"
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Feb 12, 2017 16:35
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kingturnip posted:He's done quite a lot of work to try to engage young people with politics generally, since he's concerned about low turnout among young eligible voters. He never actually crossed the floor, they just thought he was about to but he got elected speaker before it could happen.
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Feb 12, 2017 16:37
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Pochoclo posted:How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians. I've read in a couple of places that he's built up a following of supportive backbenchers on both sides of the house by being quite scrupulous about allowing them to pose questions and raise their concerns about the day to day running of parliament. That undercurrent of support is one of the reasons they haven't been able to depose him yet.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:03
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