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Rygar201 posted:Well, Gaunter is what he is. Olgierd chose to be what he is. But what he is a primeval force of evil that facilitates fates worse than death by bringing out the worst in people, an ancient horror so terrible that even learning too much about him can cause madness and physical ailments, to say nothing of the fact that he is casually as callous and violent as Olgierd is.
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Feb 12, 2017 01:17
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Yeah, but people need to learn personal responsibility and not have some nanny state witcher come and clean up their mess. Otherwise how will anyone learn not to make deals with otherworldly horrors? 
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Feb 12, 2017 01:19
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Fuzz posted:
It's fun to walk around your estate and find a few things after this (the letter from Regis, the unicorn, etc). I just finished White Orchard on New Game Plus, and it's extremely fun to do a different build with all of the skill points on earth. Plus, you get more so quickly because White Orchard has six loving places of power!
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Feb 12, 2017 01:20
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I beat the main game when it came out in 2015, but I rushed through it in about 25 hours, 30 tops, because I was pretty sick at the time. I finally got around to replaying it with both DLCs a couple weeks ago, and finished just now after 117 hours according to the ingame counter. Takeaways:
 All in all, great game. Definitely in my top 5 of all time, and I don't think I'll ever play anything like it. Looking forward to Cyberpunk two-thousand whatever.
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Feb 12, 2017 03:42
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You know, my biggest complaint about the game is how secondary the secondary characters felt. I picked Triss in all three games (I don't remember if there was a choice in 2) and felt like I saw less of her in 3 and than 2, even though 2 is about a third the length. Felt really strange. I also liked the combat (in all three games) but couldn't be arsed to play Gwent either. The game is so big already. Fuzz posted:Just beat Blood and Wine... got the long "bad" ending where I warned her all the same, but yeah...
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Feb 12, 2017 04:44
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I was tempted to try to get the good ending, but after watching it on YouTube, gently caress that poo poo, no Witcher ending should ever be that idyllic. BOTH "bad" endings were so much better than that Good ending.
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Spiderdrake posted:You know, my biggest complaint about the game is how secondary the secondary characters felt. I picked Triss in all three games (I don't remember if there was a choice in 2) and felt like I saw less of her in 3 and than 2, even though 2 is about a third the length. Felt really strange. Good endings in Witcher universe are when people survive. Bad endings are when the people you like die. Between endings are when not everyone dies.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:49
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I get why people feel the "good" ending in B&W lacks the moral ambiguity of other Witcher choices, but it's Geralt's Monty Python knight adventure where everybody knows him and loves him, and he's maybe mellowing out in his old age and kind of thinking maybe things are going to be alright after all, just like a fairy tale, so it just works for me. The vampire story kind of bores me if I'm being honest.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:52
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"I think I deserve a good bed after all this time" is the heart of Blood and Wine, the expansion in which Geralt finally gets to have a nice conversation with his pal, Roach, his girlfriend finally moves in with him, and he chooses a bank and gets a wine named after him.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:55
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I think the storyland adventure was far far more interesting than the vampire route, even though the storyland route was far more cliched and the vampre route had that cool vampire chick.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:02
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Fablesphere was the poo poo. Hell, I'd pay money for an insane DLC that was literally only that, just the size of Toissant and with all sorts of bizarro references mixed in constantly. ... then again, in some ways that's basically what Blood and Wine already IS...
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Feb 12, 2017 05:10
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Drifter posted:I think the storyland adventure was far far more interesting than the vampire route, even though the storyland route was far more cliched and the vampre route had that cool vampire chick.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:15
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The vampire route is just as cliched, though. It hits every vampire trope, one at a time. Blood-drinking as alcoholism, the cultured good guy vampire and the bestial, emotional vampire, the ancient, standoffish vampire falling in love with a young human woman, etc. etc... The storyland trope is just aware of its cliches. It's like that thing Roger Ebert said about Casablanca being all the cliches having a ball, and they all seem to know you and welcome you. A little vineyard at the edge of the world as a reward for the hero, yadda yadda. It's good. Not as good as Heart of Stone, but a sweet little signature on the whole thing.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:15
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Bicyclops posted:The vampire route is just as cliched, though. It hits every vampire trope, one at a time. Blood-drinking as alcoholism, the cultured good guy vampire and the bestial, emotional vampire, the ancient, standoffish vampire falling in love with a young human woman, etc. etc... What? I thought the vampire route was just you and the orphanage and then the awesome cave. Everything else was kinda revealed after both storylines. The ancient vampire in the cave was pretty dope, I don't think he fell in love with anyone?
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Feb 12, 2017 05:24
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Sorry, I guess I'm talking about the vampire plot as a whole.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:31
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Drifter posted:What? I thought the vampire route was just you and the orphanage and then the awesome cave. Everything else was kinda revealed after both storylines. The ancient vampire in the cave was pretty dope, I don't think he fell in love with anyone? The best part is that if you go back to the cave after the man quest is done, he just straight up kills you.
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Feb 12, 2017 09:57
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Spiderdrake posted:You know, my biggest complaint about the game is how secondary the secondary characters felt. I picked Triss in all three games (I don't remember if there was a choice in 2) and felt like I saw less of her in 3 and than 2, even though 2 is about a third the length. Felt really strange. Pretty much.  
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Feb 12, 2017 12:09
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yeah, but people need to learn personal responsibility and not have some nanny state witcher come and clean up their mess. Otherwise how will anyone learn not to make deals with otherworldly horrors? I lolled
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Feb 12, 2017 15:53
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I lolled I literally got into an argument last night with someone about how he thought Olgierd was irredeemable but Syanna totally was not and could be forgiven because reasons and also she's a girl so she's "less responsible for her feelings of anger." 
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Feb 12, 2017 16:01
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That doesn't make any sense, Olgierd's problem wasn't feelings of anger.
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Feb 12, 2017 16:32
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If only women were more rational.
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Feb 12, 2017 16:48
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Syanna is definitely mean, but I feel like there's a point at which she realizes she's in way over her head and there's nothing she can do about it anymore. She' similar to Olgierd that way.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:17
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Bicyclops posted:Syanna is definitely mean, but I feel like there's a point at which she realizes she's in way over her head and there's nothing she can do about it anymore. She' similar to Olgierd that way. True, but it's clear from the nanny's journal, the Fablesphere denizens, and just poo poo she says that she's pretty much always been terrible. Yes, a lot of it was self-fulfilling prophecy and it's arguable if you can be, "born bad," especially in a weirdass world like The Witcher, but the fact remains that unless Geralt goes to great lengths to try and rehabilitate her, she's a complete sociopath. Olgierd's sociopathy was a byproduct of his curse. By all accounts, he was a good guy before Gaunter destroyed his ability to empathize, and immediately after the curse is lifted he basically feels a swell of remorse and bitterness over what he did. They're similar in their actions, but very different in their personalities, and I think that juxtaposition is kinda the point.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:23
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I mean, it's hard to have nature v. nurture discussions in fantasy settings, but reading the diary, it seems like Syanna was a prankster and a bit of a mean kid who got pushed into being a sociopath. Like, if anything the story she tells about what the knights did to her during her exile engenders more sympathy than Olgierd's path to banditry, which is inspired by obsession for achieving an ideal. I think they're both sympathetic characters, but that Syanna needs more direct intervention in terms of her rehabilitation, whereas Olgierd learned his lesson a long time ago, and just needs his curse lifted to properly try again with a clean slate. The Baron's the one I can't really forgive because, PTSD and alcoholism aside, he's still an abusive jerk, and the way he withholds information about his shame spiral is only indicative that his intentions to be better are only intentions.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:30
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Bicyclops posted:I mean, it's hard to have nature v. nurture discussions in fantasy settings, but reading the diary, it seems like Syanna was a prankster and a bit of a mean kid who got pushed into being a sociopath. Like, if anything the story she tells about what the knights did to her during her exile engenders more sympathy than Olgierd's path to banditry, which is inspired by obsession for achieving an ideal. I think they're both sympathetic characters, but that Syanna needs more direct intervention in terms of her rehabilitation, whereas Olgierd learned his lesson a long time ago, and just needs his curse lifted to properly try again with a clean slate. Agreed, though the Fablesphere's denizens are goddamn terrified of her considering she hasn't been back since her exile. She was an rear end in a top hat before the knights, is part of the point, she just rationalizes her assholery by blaming it on the 5 people and her exile, instead of acknowledging that she was just a lovely person that then had shittier things happen to her. She never even considers that maybe she was treated like poo poo by people partly because she was lovely to them... a fundamental lack of understanding/caring for/about the repercussions of your actions is kinda fundamental to being a sociopath.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:39
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I'm sorry, but any(hot chick)body you can have sex with while floating around in a cloud is someone worth saving.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:54
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Geralt, using the James Bond in Goldfinger method of dealing with evil, but having sex with it until it turns good.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:17
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Drifter posted:I'm sorry, but any(hot chick)body you can have sex with while floating around in a cloud is someone worth saving. Geralt agrees friend.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:17
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Bicyclops posted:The Baron's the one I can't really forgive because, PTSD and alcoholism aside, he's still an abusive jerk, and the way he withholds information about his shame spiral is only indicative that his intentions to be better are only intentions. In Syanna's case I don't know if you were supposed to trust her at all and how much of her story leans on how justified you think her persecution complex is in the present. Given her scars it does seem like she has had a pretty rough time since being exiled, possibly beaten and who knows what else by those knights.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:27
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Fuzz posted:Agreed, though the Fablesphere's denizens are goddamn terrified of her considering she hasn't been back since her exile. She was an rear end in a top hat before the knights, is part of the point, she just rationalizes her assholery by blaming it on the 5 people and her exile, instead of acknowledging that she was just a lovely person that then had shittier things happen to her. She never even considers that maybe she was treated like poo poo by people partly because she was lovely to them... a fundamental lack of understanding/caring for/about the repercussions of your actions is kinda fundamental to being a sociopath. Yes, it is the child's fault for being exiled for doing silly pranks and taking the whole blame when her sister joined in. Good analysis.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:35
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SirSamVimes posted:Yes, it is the child's fault for being exiled for doing silly pranks and taking the whole blame when her sister joined in. Good analysis. That's the thing: she is a child before she's exiled. The fairy tale people are terrified of her because fairy tales are terrifying, and the games children would play with real fairy tales are even more terrifying. Some of what's in the diary seems to indicate it's beyond that it's beyond silly pranks. She throws some violent tantrums and is a bit of a bully to her sister. It doesn't warrant whatever the knights did to her or what happened to her as an orphan in peasant hell afterwards. That she blames her sister and plays with fire to get her revenge makes sense. If anything, that she realizes her mistake but doesn't know how to control it and can be talked out of her revenge means that she always probably would have been okay if given half a chance.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:45
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Seems like this is the month where W2 assets are being ported to W3. Vesemir's face is nightmare fuel though. Then again, it's probably more "lore friendly".
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Feb 12, 2017 20:50
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Bicyclops posted:That's the thing: she is a child before she's exiled. The fairy tale people are terrified of her because fairy tales are terrifying, and the games children would play with real fairy tales are even more terrifying. Some of what's in the diary seems to indicate it's beyond that it's beyond silly pranks. She throws some violent tantrums and is a bit of a bully to her sister. It doesn't warrant whatever the knights did to her or what happened to her as an orphan in peasant hell afterwards. That she blames her sister and plays with fire to get her revenge makes sense. If anything, that she realizes her mistake but doesn't know how to control it and can be talked out of her revenge means that she always probably would have been okay if given half a chance. Agreed. It's also very unclear as to whether she was manipulating Dettlaf from the start. It's terrible that bad things happened to her and she got a bum deal, but bad poo poo happens to plenty of other people in the Witcherverse and they don't come out of it being stone cold sociopaths. The "good" ending honestly is so out of place as to very much feel like a contrivance to have a "happy ending" rather than either of the other two which are bleak and pyrrhic victories.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:21
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Fuzz posted:Agreed. I'm not sure that we do agree 
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Feb 12, 2017 21:54
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Bicyclops posted:I'm not sure that we do agree Meant that as in on top of your arguments, her real intentions are unclear at best. She claims to be lying to Geralt all along to manipulate him, same as Dettlaf, in one ending and she even says that she always hated her sister even when they were kids. She's unreliable and the writers clearly wanted you to doubt anything she says what with the whole setup of "rescuing" her and the heavy handed body language from the get go that she wasn't on the level. The sob story is only told by her, no one (as far as I saw) corroborates it, so for all we know that could all be more bullshit and she's just targeting those five people because they're the only ones left alive that she can blame. The exact reason for her exile isn't clear, either, so it's possible she did something specific to warrant it, who knows. She's pretty terrible by the time Geralt meets her, that much is certain. Very hard character to pin down, which is kinda why the ending variations are so great... players will have differing opinions and that's kinda the point, there are arguments for both sides, kinda like TLoU but without the forced narrative and railroading the player. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 23:35
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I absolutely love this game, but I've been away from it long enough that I'm thinking of starting it over again partly because I downloaded a bunch of the mods recommended in this topic, and also because I don't want the game to be over. The only thing I really don't like is that when enemies are a certain number of levels higher than you, their level is displayed as ?? instead of their actual level. Is there a mod that does away with this? I like to know when I should come back to an area to clear it out.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:46
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Syanna is one of the girls cursed by the Black Sun, which is why everyone was terrified of her as a child. Renfri, from the story 'The Lesser Evil' mentioned upthread, was another one of them. Wiki link ...[the girls] were supposed to have been possessed by demons, cursed, contaminated by the Black Sun, because that's what, in your pompous jargon, you called the most ordinary eclipse in the world. Eltibald wasn't mad at all. He deciphered the writing on Dauk menhirs, on tombstones in the Wozgor necropolises, and examined the legends and traditions of weretots. All of them spoke of the eclipse in no uncertain terms. The Black Sun was to announce the imminent return of Lilit, still honoured in the east under the name of Niya, and the extermination of the human race. Lilit's path was to be prepared by "sixty women wearing gold crowns, who would fill the river valleys with blood". — page 83, The Last Wish (UK edition) Basically 60 princesses were to be the heralds of doom and start the apocalypse and everyone freaked out and started imprisoning princesses in towers or straight up killing them. Was the curse real or was it a self-fulfilling prophecy?
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Feb 12, 2017 23:50
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Fuzz posted:Meant that as in on top of your arguments, her real intentions are unclear at best. She claims to be lying to Geralt all along to manipulate him, same as Dettlaf, in one ending and she even says that she always hated her sister even when they were kids. She's unreliable and the writers clearly wanted you to doubt anything she says what with the whole setup of "rescuing" her and the heavy handed body language from the get go that she wasn't on the level. The sob story is only told by her, no one (as far as I saw) corroborates it, so for all we know that could all be more bullshit and she's just targeting those five people because they're the only ones left alive that she can blame. The exact reason for her exile isn't clear, either, so it's possible she did something specific to warrant it, who knows. It is clear though... She and Annarietta played a prank together, and her sister blamed her entirely which got her exiled.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:53
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Viridiant posted:I don't want the game to be over. Yeah!! Whatever is awkward or glitchy, one thing is constant: this game is constantly fun. Any build is viable for combat and all of them are fun, the non-combat quests do a great job of not feeling like endless cut scenes, the voice acting, soundtrack and visuals are pretty great, and people stand by their in-game choices enough that they're willing to argue them long afterward in this thread. It never feels like you're just mashing buttons, the Big Choices don't feel like you're just selecting left or right, and even the in-game CCG you play against NPCs has a charm that kind of thing has never had before. Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be a day 1 buy for me.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:00
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Viridiant posted:I absolutely love this game, but I've been away from it long enough that I'm thinking of starting it over again partly because I downloaded a bunch of the mods recommended in this topic, and also because I don't want the game to be over. I think maybe that's something they patched out since you last played, I'm sure I remember fighting a level 48 griffin at like level 30.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:05
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SirSamVimes posted:It is clear though... She and Annarietta played a prank together, and her sister blamed her entirely which got her exiled. But did they elaborate on what it actually was they did? Didn't think she did. It was implied and overtly stated (depending on your dialogue choices) that it was mainly the Black Sun thing that got her exiled and treated like poo poo compared to her sister. It's totally a real thing vs self-fulfilling prophecy type story, but ultimately an important takeaway is that all of those things aren't just a magic beep boop recipe to turn you into a sociopath, it's not that clear cut. It's also not like at some point a flip just switched and she turned into one, either.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:06
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