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Covok posted:Yelling at forum users for liking a game isn't sticking it to Zak S, it's just pissing off and scaring away people trying to get into a hobby and grow our community. Zak S is not aware you're doing this and, even if he were, it probably doesn't matter to him. Zak S is a piece of poo poo, but it doesn't then logically justify yelling at people for liking a game because they thought it might be fun. I agree with this wholeheartedly. If you hate Zak S so much, take it up with him. If you don't want people to play 5e, whatever, but you need to make a reasoned argument instead of just going 'it is bad' and then emitting a sound that makes dogs flee in terror. If people don't agree with you too bad, move on. If you want to make a thread specifically for bashing 5e, take it up with Ettin, but stop threadshitting people.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:10
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From what little I know of him. Zak S does not even care about 5e. So it's attacking an unrelated thing.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:29
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nelson posted:What you don't realize (or maybe you do) is you keep making GBS threads up all discussions of 5e when other people want to discuss it in a grown up manner. Just stay out of all 5e threads and it would be much better for everyone involved, including yourself. I'm happy to discuss it in an adult manner. You just don't like what I have to say. @Sion: Sure, RPGs can be pretty insular and breaking that down is great. But you don't do that with a game made by guys who harass, stalk, and doxx marginalized people. No matter how prominent that game might be. @Covok: If people want to grow the community that's fine. They can start by playing better games not designed by human pieces of poo poo. It's not threadshitting to be critical of 5e and the people who made it like we have been on this subforum for years. If people want a no-criticism 5e zone there are plenty of other places on the Internet for that.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:42
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Arivia posted:I'm happy to discuss it in an adult manner. You just don't like what I have to say. Just stop already.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:43
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Arivia posted:@Sion: Sure, RPGs can be pretty insular and breaking that down is great. But you don't do that with a game made by guys who harass, stalk, and doxx marginalized people. No matter how prominent that game might be. You don't get to decide that. The last episode of Critical Role got 200,000 viewers on YouTube and 25,000 live viewers when it was happening on Twitch. If someone shows up in a 5e thread saying 'I like that show, I want to know more about the game they are playing' are you honestly going to turn that person away because of their interest in it? Sion fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 22:46
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Wait are you now thread-making GBS threads on another, different thread about your thread-making GBS threads? I hate 5e and think it's a dumb regressive shambles, and that's why I don't post in the 5e thread cause I'm a loving adult. Shut the gently caress up, Arivia.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:49
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Sion posted:You don't get to decide that. Are you kidding me? No, that's a choice we make as ethical people, unless you post on r/the_donald or worse. Grow the gently caress up.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:51
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i was under the impression that the most zack s did for 5e was being a playtester which like, yeah it'd be better if he didn't even get that much credit for the hobby's biggest, most talked about game but i ain't gonna dump on every 5e player over it
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Feb 12, 2017 22:58
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Arivia posted:I'm happy to discuss it in an adult manner.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:00
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Brother Entropy posted:i was under the impression that the most zack s did for 5e was being a playtester Him and Pundowski are listed as "consultants" which yeah, is basically glorified playtesting when it comes to this hobby. It's doubtful that their input actually caused any real impact on the creation of the game, since both them and Mearls can't design games for poo poo.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:01
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Alien Rope Burn posted:(I often end up typing Pathfinger instead of Pathfinder and I'm just letting it go this time. Can't wait to start mistyping Starfinger.) 
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Feb 12, 2017 23:07
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Yawgmoth posted:This has never been true about any topic nor do I expect it ever will be. 
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Feb 12, 2017 23:14
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Have you considered calming yourself with a steaming bowl of loose beef?
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Feb 12, 2017 23:28
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lets tighten up this loose beef with something we can all shut the gently caress about, and that's motherfucking heist games! Deep down, we all know that the only thing stopping us from stealing is our lack of abilities or connection to someone cool enough to let us join their steal stuff crew. Thankfully, through the world of pretend, we can be cool stuff stealers. There are many cool games about stealing, some of my favorites are  It's half past the future, and your favorite dnd races are teaming up to steal from the man, in order to become the man. They made some video games! I haven't played them. I also haven't played the elf game, but it's cyberpunk, the best kind of punk, and the systems are kinda clunky!  This city is up to its balls in ghosts and you and your crew are gonna rob it blind while it's not looking. Be a Peaky Blinder, only in a city fueled by ghosts next to a broken ocean of blood and star stuff! Gain STRESS to flash back to important moments before your heist went wrong! As seen on Friends at the Table!  This one is more story gaming, works wonders for a one off! I can't imagine trying to continue this for the long run! What are YOUR favorite heist games? Why should I go gently caress myself?
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Feb 12, 2017 23:36
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A Heist game list without Leverage is a drat poor list. Leverage is built from the ground up to be a game about stealing poo poo and that's all. No muss, no fuss, no cruft. When I'm not phone posting I'll put in some details and charts and so on but if you want to steal poo poo do it in Leverage.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:45
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Ominous Jazz posted:What are YOUR favorite heist games? I still love "classic" 80's Shadowrun, for like 90% just nostalgia reasons. However, despite a few quibbles, Blades is freaking legit. It's one of those games that has some great ideas people should check out and steal even if they don't want a heist game. Engagement and flashbacks aren't totally revelatory, but like Dungeon World for some people, it is presented in a really accessible and attractive way that will probably help propagate those ideas. quote:Why should I go gently caress myself? gently caress your firm beef.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:46
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Mr. Maltose posted:A Heist game list without Leverage is a drat poor list. Leverage is built from the ground up to be a game about stealing poo poo and that's all. No muss, no fuss, no cruft. When I'm not phone posting I'll put in some details and charts and so on but if you want to steal poo poo do it in Leverage. I've never heard of this game, give us the deets. Also, the tv show leverage isn't bad.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:47
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Ominous Jazz posted:What are YOUR favorite heist games? Why should I go gently caress myself? I'd add Red Markets to the list https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/159466030/red-markets  quote:Red Markets is a tabletop RPG about economic horror.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:49
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I really liked The Sprawl the one time I got it to the table. You get nebulous points of "gear" and "intel" to represent prior prep that you then spend during the heist. When my players were confronted by a bunch of guards and only had flashbangs one of my players suggested that they'd bribed the caterers at the gala they were attending to drug the food with a really specific poison to make them super photosensitive. It was really good. Leverage is supposed to be good but I don't know much about it. I'd like to know more though. And I personally don't think you should go gently caress yourself. Unless you wanted to. Then go right ahead.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:51
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Spycraft 2.0's mission-oriented nature lends it well to heists if you're willing to hurdle its wall of rules. Tricky Dick Nixon's Masks hack about teenage superheroes, Capers, has been making the rounds in the PbP forums, though it's a work in progress.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:57
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Slimnoid posted:Him and Pundowski are listed as "consultants" which yeah, is basically glorified playtesting when it comes to this hobby. It's doubtful that their input actually caused any real impact on the creation of the game, since both them and Mearls can't design games for poo poo. I actually checked about this. They literally had very little to no impact. They checked with a bunch of notable people related to the hobby and had them play with it a bit. They were no more important then the other other 50ish people who tested the game. So no the game was not designed by human garbage. Like all games it was likely at one point played by garbage.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:59
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Nthing the Leverage RPG, it's pretty much my favorite Cortex game as far as nailing mechanics, theme, and tone. Another game built around heists from the ground up is the Mistborn RPG, but you can use it to play other types of games with very little coaxing.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:05
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I like Blades in the Dark for heisting, even though the game of it I ran kind of petered out and went nowhere. But in that vein Dusk City Outlaws is Kickstarting now and looks to be a similar sort of idea.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:06
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Ominous Jazz posted:lets tighten up this loose beef with something we can all shut the gently caress about, I'm not a fan of Shadowrun (a symptom of "you got your chocolate in my peanut butter" syndrome) and I haven't read Blades in the Dark yet. Fiasco is extremely my jam though. Played a 3 player game yesterday using the Manna Hotel playset. After two hundred pounds of buffalo jerky, a badger with a taste for human flesh and a visit from the community college chapter of the Skull & Bones Society my character, an air-headed flower child, got off this easiest with a permanent place on an FBI watch list and a horribly disfiguring case of badger pox.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:10
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Shadowrun: Anarchy has a narrative round robin thing going on if you like your Fiasco games but want elves and poo poo too.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:17
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LongDarkNight posted:(a symptom of "you got your chocolate in my peanut butter" syndrome) Isn't the phrase "you got your chocolate in my peanut butter" supposed to refer to creating something delicious/great on accident? What does this mean here in the context of "I don't like it"?
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Feb 13, 2017 00:21
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Countblanc posted:Isn't the phrase "you got your chocolate in my peanut butter" supposed to refer to creating something delicious/great on accident? What does this mean here in the context of "I don't like it"? It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was saying "the thing that everyone else likes about Shadowrun is what turns me off."
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Feb 13, 2017 00:28
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Kwyndig posted:Nthing the Leverage RPG, it's pretty much my favorite Cortex game as far as nailing mechanics, theme, and tone. Yeah, Leverage is a great game. It avoids the Shadowrun problem of trying to plan everything ahead of time with flashbacks, and the mechanics have some crunch without worrying about the differences between hacking computers, hacking elevators and hacking TVs, etc. It simplifies skills into general roles (Hacker, Hitter, Mastermind, Grifter and Thief) and adding specialties for what PCs are good at on top of that. It's rules-medium at the crunchiest, but it helps to have a summary sheet on what you can do with things. Mainly, it's just really good at Leverage-style heists where details only matter when they matter/have a name/etc. It's fun when it works, but can get a little confusing if you get too caught up in the mechanics.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:36
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In addition to what other people have said (Holy poo poo I love that flashback mechanic, and Sprawl's point pools serve a similar function), the various characters have Cortex+ style die size for the various roles, which isn't a measure of how good you are but instead is a measure of how often using that skill causes complications. Which means that there's less of a feeling of....niche protection I suppose? It helps with the feeling that anyone can do the hacking or the stealing or the punching because you're not necessarily bad at thing but you doing thing is unpredictable. It's a game whose mechanics, unlike games like Shadowrun, are focused entirely for the narrative of the heist while being about people who are competent and could possibly steal something without it being Fiasco. Which is still the world's best clusterfuck simulator, for sure.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:42
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Countblanc posted:Isn't the phrase "you got your chocolate in my peanut butter" supposed to refer to creating something delicious/great on accident? What does this mean here in the context of "I don't like it"? I may have picked the wrong metaphor but my personal preference is to keep my Fantasy separate from Sci-Fi; I'm a Debbie Downer in that regard. Some folks love SR, so you do you.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:42
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Re 5e, can chocolate ice cream partisans just enjoy their chocolate ice cream without driving 10 blocks down to fling jars of piss at Strawberry Ice Cream Likers Club Other topic, the Leverage game looked fun as hell but it's another one I'll probably never find people to play
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Feb 13, 2017 00:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:I actually checked about this. They literally had very little to no impact. They checked with a bunch of notable people related to the hobby and had them play with it a bit. They were no more important then the other other 50ish people who tested the game. This is incorrect. Mearls was pretty well embedded in the OSR community before 5e, and did nothing when presented with the information about what Zak and Pundit had done. Mearls even linked and supported some of Zak's attacks at various points, and Pundit kept running his mouth about what he was doing. They were very much involved. @Nehru: You see a nazi, you punch the nazi. Doesn't matter if it's a game or Breitbart as their mouthpieces.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:03
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Re 5e, can chocolate ice cream partisans just enjoy their chocolate ice cream without driving 10 blocks down to fling jars of piss at Strawberry Ice Cream Likers Club
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Feb 13, 2017 01:12
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Vampire and Shadowrun were my first games, and I got to play a lot more of the latter. As a Shadowrun junkie, I've only done character creation in The Sprawl thus far, but it really hits a sweet spot in the sense that your gear has qualities and they matter a lot, but it doesn't have a table of 15 types of slightly different handgun. Also, like Leverage, it allows for a cinematic playstyle where the PCs are each doing their own thing, not stuck together in round-by-round combat or waiting right behind the rogue while he picks a lock.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:23
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Arivia posted:This is incorrect. Mearls was pretty well embedded in the OSR community before 5e, and did nothing when presented with the information about what Zak and Pundit had done. Mearls even linked and supported some of Zak's attacks at various points, and Pundit kept running his mouth about what he was doing. They were very much involved. They were involved with jack poo poo. They were two names on a list of 15. From some research Pundit and Zak S don't even like 5e. They don't get any money from 5e and supporting 5e does not mean supporting Pundit and Zak. Mearls is just kind of bland. But largely harmless. Also could you actually show the supporting attacks thing. I am curious about that.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:38
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Ferrinus posted:Never thought I'd be saying this, bu But enough about every single quote you get on the Exalted thread from people agreeing with your combat rules.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:39
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Arivia posted:This is incorrect. Mearls was pretty well embedded in the OSR community before 5e, and did nothing when presented with the information about what Zak and Pundit had done. Mearls even linked and supported some of Zak's attacks at various points, and Pundit kept running his mouth about what he was doing. They were very much involved. Hey there, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents as a trans woman who likes elfgames. I genuinely had no idea about the specific instances of doxxing and Mearl's involvement/endorsement thereof, though RPG Pundit doing that kind of thing is not surprising in the slightest. Knowing that, my interest in the game has dropped from barely any to zero, and it's the sort of thing I like to be aware of before buying a product. However, I really don't think telling people that it is immoral to like/enjoy 5e on those grounds is really helpful, and it fuels the bizarre fear/accusation that women/poc/lgbtqa folk are coming to 'take away' the games of the entrenched fan-bases of nerd poo poo. If I felt I had to stop enjoying any media that in some way shape or form contributed to, or is informed by, oppressive social structures, there would not be anything left. You can enjoy media and at the same time be aware of the ways it or the people involved are lovely. I might very well send in a email to WotC and let them know how not acknowledging and punishing that sort of behavior can alienate people from the hobby. There are a lot of really important fronts for fighting fascism in this age, but honestly I don't think being obstinate in this way is doing anything for the cause, probably the best way to combat this sort of thing in the hobby is supporting game lines that are generally being cool and confronting lovely behavior when you see folks engage in it. Like, I am all for punching nazis, but fighting folks for posting anything positive about a game that has vague ties to lovely people doing lovely things is a far cry from that.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:39
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LongDarkNight posted:I may have picked the wrong metaphor but my personal preference is to keep my Fantasy separate from Sci-Fi; I'm a Debbie Downer in that regard. Some folks love SR, so you do you. Yeah that's absolutely fair. I don't actually like sci-fi period but I love Gun's and Orcs, so Shadowrun at least has that going for it for me. Nehru the Damaja posted:Re 5e, can chocolate ice cream partisans just enjoy their chocolate ice cream without driving 10 blocks down to fling jars of piss at Strawberry Ice Cream Likers Club Absolutely not.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:42
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Ash Rose posted:Hey there, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents as a trans woman who likes elfgames. Most of the stuff he has posted appears to only be partially true at best. Other stuff not at all. Anyway I am just going to wait on an Arivialess 5e thread. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 01:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Most of the stuff he has posted appears to only be partially true. Fairly certain Arivia is a woman, but yeah, this is the sort of thing I would get confirmation on before writing an email or the like.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:45
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