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I mean, on some level I've just accepted that Caitlin is really just a really messed up person who has no life outside work and is super co-dependent so constantly starts relationships with people she works with. If I was being generous I'd claim that was somehow connected to her mom's seeming work-over-family behavior but in truth I know the Flash Writers never thought of that before this season if they have at all. But in fairness Cisco seems just as bad except he only hits on unavailable super powered ladies they cross paths with.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:15
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, on some level I've just accepted that Caitlin is really just a really messed up person who has no life outside work and is super co-dependent so constantly starts relationships with people she works with. If I was being generous I'd claim that was somehow connected to her mom's seeming work-over-family behavior but in truth I know the Flash Writers never thought of that before this season if they have at all. Cisco had multiple episode about his family drama, and his constant nerd references imply that he at least watches movies on occasion, and he has friendships with various Wells.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:44
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The Lord Bude posted:Wasn't it a change due to flashpoint? Her having powers in this timeline was because of Flashpoint, but they have never said why her powers didn't manifest until just as we started seeing their timeline when Barry rocked up.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:51
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Cisco is only attracted to ladies who could and would kill him. I feel like that's an avenue of his psychology that is worth exploring.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:Cisco had multiple episode about his family drama, and his constant nerd references imply that he at least watches movies on occasion, and he has friendships with various Wells. I mean, his family drama is that he's estranged from them because its all pretty dysfunctional so the only major difference is they touched on that earlier than they did with Caitlin. The "watches movie" thing just means he watches Netflix when he gets home. But fair on the Wells thing. They've done a lot of character work there with his complicated relationship with the various versions of Wells. While they were doing that they were doing Caitlin with Ronnie and then Jay/Hunter so here we are. Spergatory posted:Cisco is only attracted to ladies who could and would kill him. I feel like that's an avenue of his psychology that is worth exploring. Well to be fair Hawkgirl didn't want to kill him but she did have a very jealous super powered ex. I'd argue that Cisco being solely attracted to powered women speaks to his overall obsession with metas and Team Flash. I think he and Caitlin are equally loserish and obsessed about the team and have no lives outside of it. So Caitlin falls for the guys she works with and Cisco falls for the powered ladies who wow him. I mean, I'm making this all up right now but still... STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 23:46
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Maybe Caitlin's that other meta-husk that Draco was talking about finding this episode, and just didn't tell anyone.
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Feb 10, 2017 23:55
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We get an episode fully devoted to showing scenes from Caitlin's past to show us her going to Dr. Alchemy but also proving that she does in fact exist outside of Star Labs.
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Feb 11, 2017 00:15
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You're probably supposed to assume that they're still doing stuff together like going to bars, they just don't show it.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:50
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I was just joking. Yeah, I don't need everything to happen on screen to assume that things happen off screen. But its a legitimate criticism of the show that they've done a bad job establishing Cisco and especially Caitlin's lives outside of Team Flash in the way they've done with the Wests and Barry. So I just made a joke about it about how if they showed us one of those "missing pieces" episodes with Caitlin it would theoretically show all kinds of parts of her life we've never gotten before.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:55
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, his family drama is that he's estranged from them because its all pretty dysfunctional so the only major difference is they touched on that earlier than they did with Caitlin. The "watches movie" thing just means he watches Netflix when he gets home. They established he had a family, and what they were like, and his history with them. We saw his family, we saw him interacting with his family. Cisco's relationships outside Team Flash drove the story of an episode, and were a factor in the post-Flashpoint drama. It wasn't until this season that they confirmed Caitlyn was of woman born. The fact that Cisco makes movie references is proof that he does something when not on screen. They haven't done that with Caitlyn. For all we know, she could turn to stone when the camera isn't on her.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:They established he had a family, and what they were like, and his history with them. We saw his family, we saw him interacting with his family. Cisco's relationships outside Team Flash drove the story of an episode, and were a factor in the post-Flashpoint drama. It wasn't until this season that they confirmed Caitlyn was of woman born. The fact that Cisco makes movie references is proof that he does something when not on screen. They haven't done that with Caitlyn. For all we know, she could turn to stone when the camera isn't on her. In her spare time she takes off the necklace and is a crazy rear end vigilante like The Creeper, she's just really good at covering her tracks
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Feb 11, 2017 15:20
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The particle accelerator explosion turned Caitlin into a quantum being and now she stops existing when she's not being observed.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:36
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Guy Goodbody posted:They established he had a family, and what they were like, and his history with them. We saw his family, we saw him interacting with his family. Cisco's relationships outside Team Flash drove the story of an episode, and were a factor in the post-Flashpoint drama. It wasn't until this season that they confirmed Caitlyn was of woman born. The fact that Cisco makes movie references is proof that he does something when not on screen. They haven't done that with Caitlyn. For all we know, she could turn to stone when the camera isn't on her. I just don't think "nerd references" is really a worthwhile character trait to laud. I agree that Caitlin is very poorly developed, I just think that while Cisco is better developed than Caitlyn he's still a pretty shallow character compared to Barry and the Wests.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:27
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STAC Goat posted:I just don't think "nerd references" is really a worthwhile character trait to laud. I agree that Caitlin is very poorly developed, I just think that while Cisco is better developed than Caitlyn he's still a pretty shallow character compared to Barry and the Wests. I mean to be fair it's The Flash not The Cisco it should be The Cisco
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Feb 12, 2017 01:26
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Rhyno posted:And Eddie's coming back so when she turns up again they will of course be married. Oh god, what if Eddie turns out to be Savitar?
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Feb 12, 2017 01:39
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Chokes McGee posted:I mean to be fair it's The Flash not The Cisco it should be The Cisco Yeah, its just that Caitlin and Cisco kind of stand out since (a) Barry is the star, (b) The Wests are the focus of all his family and romance drama so they get a ton of time, and (c) Wells gets reset every season with a whole new backstory and development. So then you just end up with these two characters who are kind of out of the loop and getting the short end of the development stick. Which has led to some awkward looking "family dinners" with Cisco and Caitlyn on the outer edges. Cisco, at least, had a little stuff before this season with his family, powers, and Wells stuff. Caitlin had nothing before this season except multiple doomed romance storylines so they ended up seeming like her entire character.
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Feb 12, 2017 02:04
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It amazes me how little they use Cisco now that he is a ridiculously powerful meta human.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:06
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The Lord Bude posted:It amazes me how little they use Cisco now that he is a ridiculously powerful meta human. I call it Firestorm syndrome.
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Feb 12, 2017 04:11
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On the bright side, not using him means they don't have to make him stupid so his enemies can actually pose a threat to him.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:27
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Wolvorine posted:Oh god, what if Eddie turns out to be Savitar? Don't be silly, he's going to be the new, even faster, villain for next year
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Feb 12, 2017 05:34
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Azhais posted:Don't be silly, he's going to be the new, even faster, villain for next year Looking forward to season five's villain, Speedy Gonzales.
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Feb 12, 2017 08:25
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I still maintain that Bertlanti and co are just waiting for the right strategic moment to call up Michael Rosenbaum and be like "hey, you be Lex Luthor again?" I mean, Earth-1's gotta have its own version of Lex just skulking about out there waiting to ruin some superhero's day. Right?
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Feb 12, 2017 10:32
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nine-gear crow posted:I still maintain that Bertlanti and co are just waiting for the right strategic moment to call up Michael Rosenbaum and be like "hey, you be Lex Luthor again?" Have Lex Corp or Wayne Enterprises been referenced at all in the Arrowverse?
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Feb 12, 2017 12:06
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LexCorp exists on Earth-38 and the future newspaper cover with the "Flash Missing In Crisis" article has a story at the bottom about Wayne Tech merging with Queen Inc.
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Feb 12, 2017 12:35
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Yeah, there's been no sign of LexCorp on Earth-1 yet, but Bruce Wayne is implied to exist on both Earth-1 and Earth-38. Kara makes a oblique but obvious reference to Batman working with Superman in the past over on Supergirl, plus the aforementioned Wayne Tech mention on Flash.
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 16:05
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, there's been no sign of LexCorp on Earth-1 yet, but Bruce Wayne is implied to exist on both Earth-1 and Earth-38. Kara makes a oblique but obvious reference to Batman working with Superman in the past over on Supergirl, plus the aforementioned Wayne Tech mention on Flash. I just want them to visit the earth of Powerless now. It would be amazing.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:19
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, there's been no sign of LexCorp on Earth-1 yet, but Bruce Wayne is implied to exist on both Earth-1 and Earth-38. Kara makes a oblique but obvious reference to Batman working with Superman in the past over on Supergirl, plus the aforementioned Wayne Tech mention on Flash. She does make a reference to Batman but she also claims her and Superman are her Earth's only heroes. (In the last crossover I think)
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Feb 12, 2017 19:21
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Spacebump posted:She does make a reference to Batman but she also claims her and Superman are her Earth's only heroes. (In the last crossover I think) I'm just going to chock that one up the Legends writers not being aware of everything that's said or happens on Supergirl, because that line also discounts the existence of the Martian Manhunter, Guardian, and Mon-El as other competent hero-type people that Kara is clearly aware of at that time. Though Kara has been letting her Super Dickery flag fly a little more freely this season on Supergirl, so it could very well be a calculated diss on J'onn, James, and Mon-El. It's in Kara's wheelhouse, not gonna lie 
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Feb 12, 2017 22:27
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm just going to chock that one up the Legends writers not being aware of everything that's said or happens on Supergirl, because that line also discounts the existence of the Martian Manhunter, Guardian, and Mon-El as other competent hero-type people that Kara is clearly aware of at that time. Though Kara has been letting her Super Dickery flag fly a little more freely this season on Supergirl, so it could very well be a calculated diss on J'onn, James, and Mon-El. Cross over was Pre guardian wasn't it? And I'm guessing in her mind j'onn not out patrolling or responding to polic reports means not a hero.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:58
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Hughlander posted:Cross over was Pre guardian wasn't it? Nope, James had been Guardian for at least an episode or two before the crossover. There was that joke in the crossover prequel episode, where James & Winn were going to come clean at Thanksgiving, but Alex didn't want anyone to upstage her coming out to Eliza...and then Barry ruined everything.
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Feb 13, 2017 04:52
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nine-gear crow posted:I still maintain that Bertlanti and co are just waiting for the right strategic moment to call up Michael Rosenbaum and be like "hey, you be Lex Luthor again?" I was just thinking about this again the other day in regards to not having heard anything about Lena or LexCorp on Supergirl in a while, but I've also thought about it before. As a Smallville Survivor, I still think Rosenbaum was legit the best part of that show and he really owned the role and character. I think it'd be great anywhere in the Arrowverse shows, and even though I know it's unlikely, I still wish it'd happen before the Arrowverse runs out of steam... nine-gear crow posted:Plus getting Rosenbaum on Flash in particular--in any role, really--would be a nice casting coup because he also played The Flash (the Wally West version) on Justice League for like 5 years. Haha. Yeah I was actually also thinking this while constructing my reply, but figured it was too tangential since I was specifically thinking his Lex. Longbaugh01 fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 09:27
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Plus getting Rosenbaum on Flash in particular--in any role, really--would be a nice casting coup because he also played The Flash (the Wally West version) on Justice League for like 5 years.
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Feb 13, 2017 09:34
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nooneofconsequence posted:Is there any reason why Wally is faster than Barry other than natural athleticism? OB_Juan posted:Maybe Caitlin's that other meta-husk that Draco was talking about finding this episode, and just didn't tell anyone.
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Feb 13, 2017 10:26
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Knormal posted:I'm guessing what they're building towards is that Wally's faster because his powers are unstable somehow, and the season's going to end with either him sacrificing them or himself to stop Savitar. It just doesn't seem like they'd permanently introduce a character who's better than the main character at his distinguishing characteristic. Nah, you need to go dumber. He'll turn into Savitar.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:02
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MiddleOne posted:Nah, you need to go dumber. He'll turn into Savitar. or maybe he's faster because he's younger and the future of speedsters, same way Jessie is zippy as hell or maybe it's just a contrived plot mechanism idk
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Feb 13, 2017 15:24
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Maybe somone with better knowledge of the comics can answer this for me. What's the deal with Black Flash? Just judging by his appearance on Legends, he seems less like a villain and more like a force of nature.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:18
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I'm not a comic book nerd but from the wiki he seems to basically be a speedster incarnation of the time ghoulies Flash has forgotten about.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:21
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Ok, that's pretty much what they're doing with him.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:23
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Black Flash is literally the Grim Reaper of speedsters. They're so fast the universe has to send a specialist to actually take them in.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:25
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Yeah he's basically "literally Death, aka the Grim Reaper, but for speedsters" in the comics. Its first arc in the comics is literally a cheesy horror movie plot where a smudgy shadow with a face starts appearing behind Flash and someone else recognizes it as the Black Flash, and then eventually Flash beats it by running fast. In the show they seem to have adapted it to be working for the time wraiths, which is actually a super neat idea IMO. They realize they can't catch speedsters so they turn a speedster into a mutant version of themselves to hunt down time remnant speedsters.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:27
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