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Ginette Reno posted:Not saying that perception is accurate, but that's how a lot of people in the hockey world think. I don't get this at all. Burns essentially plays as a forward and gets most of his points off the rush. He's not a two-way guy. Hell, he was a forward until he was 19 and has played several seasons as a right winger including a couple years ago with the Sharks. I don't see how he's any different from Karlsson. A talented offensive defenceman no doubt, but Karlsson put up basically identical totals (82pts in 82 games last year compared to Burns' 59 in 57 so far) and didn't even win the Norris. What is Burns doing differently that makes him not only a run away Norris winner, but also a Hart trophy candidate this year?
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Feb 13, 2017 16:31
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He's playing in the less visible conference so a lot of the voters only see point totals and "Defense" and don't actually know.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:33
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He's also Canadian and therefore he plays defense, unlike those floaty Euros.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:34
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ThinkTank posted:I don't get this at all. Burns essentially plays as a forward and gets most of his points off the rush. He's not a two-way guy. Hell, he was a forward until he was 19 and has played several seasons as a right winger including a couple years ago with the Sharks. They probably both deserved consideration tbh. It was harder for Karlsson because Kane had such an outrageous year. Burns is a lot closer to winning the Ross than Karlsson even though comparatively their seasons are similar. What Karlsson did last year may have even been more impressive considering he logged almost 29 minutes a night.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:37
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Ginette Reno posted:They probably both deserved consideration tbh. It was harder for Karlsson because Kane had such an outrageous year. Burns is a lot closer to winning the Ross than Karlsson even though comparatively their seasons are similar. Yeah, Karlsson was as good or better and apparently that didn't even warrant serious Norris consideration. Karlsson finished 9th in Hart trophy voting last year for arguably as good a season. Burns is not doing anything especially unusual or outlandish, and even considering him for the Hart trophy would be pretty much unprecedented post-lockout. No defenceman has been a Hart trophy finalist since before the cancelled season, and no one has finished above 8th since Lidstrom was 4th in 07/08. If Burns was on pace to smash records or something then fine, but he's essentially at the same level as several other players in the last few years. Give him the Norris, he deserves it no question. I have no idea how he's the guy who's apparently going to buck the trend and be the first Hart trophy winning defenceman since Pronger 17 years ago. e: to be clear, the Hart trophy has been awarded to two defencemen since Hitler died. Bobby Orr (3 times) and Pronger. I just don't feel like Brent Burns should be added to that list. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 16:48
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:I just heard real professional NHL talk radio people speculating that players have quit on Therrien and a change seems necessary if not imminent. It'll be real demoralizing when he sends Carey to the Stars for speaking out against the god-emperor Therrien's efforts.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:05
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bub spank posted:Burns definitely deserves the Norris this year, but it's interesting to see the unanimous hype for Burns given the intense debate over the award last year. On the same date last year, Karlsson had 62 points in 56 games (3rd in NHL scoring), led his team in scoring by 17 points, and led the next-highest scorer on defense (Burns) by 16 points. This year, Burns has 59 points in 57 games (4th in NHL scoring), is leading his team in scoring by 11 points, and leads the next-highest scorer on defense (Karlsson) by 14 points. Aside from the goals and overall team strength, not all that much difference - but the Norris front runner all last season was Doughty, whereas there hasn't been much talk of anyone but Burns winning it this year. As for the Hart, there's also no Kane blowing away everyone else. Currently McDavid is in the league lead but is under 90 point pace, so they won't necessarily default to forward, especially if Burns is basically right there. And if Burns falls off the pace or the Sharks go on a big losing streak than we'll hear rumblings about the Norris.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:10
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Spring Break My Heart posted:As for the Hart, there's also no Kane blowing away everyone else. Currently McDavid is in the league lead but is under 90 point pace, so they won't necessarily default to forward, especially if Burns is basically right there. And if Burns falls off the pace or the Sharks go on a big losing streak than we'll hear rumblings about the Norris. Crosby has a 1.25ppg (103 point pace over 82) and should be the slam dunk winner.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:13
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ThinkTank posted:Crosby has a 1.25ppg (103 point pace over 82) and should be the slam dunk winner. ThinkTank posted:Yeah, Karlsson was as good or better and apparently that didn't even warrant serious Norris consideration. Karlsson finished 9th in Hart trophy voting last year for arguably as good a season. Burns is not doing anything especially unusual or outlandish, and even considering him for the Hart trophy would be pretty much unprecedented post-lockout. No defenceman has been a Hart trophy finalist since before the cancelled season, and no one has finished above 8th since Lidstrom was 4th in 07/08. At some point you'd hope they'd consider more defensemen for the Hart. Lidstrom never getting nominated was absolutely ridiculous, particularly in 07/08, In the case of Burns we're talking about him being nominated over guys that he's currently ahead of or a point/2 behind, and conceivably could be ahead of by the end of the season. It's not that uncommon for the voters to just go right down the scoring list anyways. We're also not going to see any records smashed by defensemen for the same reason we won't see any smashed by forwards. Spring Break My Heart fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 17:33
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I would actually not be opposed to Sweeney trading for Landeskog or Duchene but I don't think he's savvy enough to pull of an even, much less a favorable, trade. It sounds like the ask is still Carlo, a good prospect, and an early-rounds pick, and I'm not into that even considering Boston's depth with RHD both on the team and in the pipeline. Colin Miller, Krejci, or Spooner and a prospect+pick I could live with, but those don't seem like enough to interest Colorado and/or address their actual needs. Realistically Boston should be sellers. They have their break, and then a tough west coast trip, and everyone has games in hand on them. Odds are pretty good that the Bruins could find themselves out of the hunt by early March if things don't go their way. But management is dumb so instead we're probably going to trade for one of the aforementioned Avalanche players.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:40
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I'd pick Jeff Carter as MVP at this point based on the argument "which NHL playoff team probably would not make the playoffs without this player on their roster". 21% of the Kings goals. Kopitar has been awful and they would suck without him.
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Feb 13, 2017 17:50
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:I just heard real professional NHL talk radio people speculating that players have quit on Therrien and a change seems necessary if not imminent. Inshallah
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Feb 13, 2017 18:16
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Duckman2008 posted:Visiting Nashville, glad I picked tonight's game to go to and not the 7-4 loss from yesterday. Preds looked mostly ok, but man did the Stars just tank in the final period. I went to both and can confirm, Sunday was way more fun.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:30
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Martytoof posted:It'll be real demoralizing when he sends Carey to the Stars for speaking out against the god-emperor Therrien's efforts. Ain't it great that Therrien's gonna get fired after Bergevin traded away a legitimate star player and a fan favourite to appease him?
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Feb 13, 2017 18:35
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Yeah it's great. I wonder if he'll fire him before or after Price publicly requests a trade.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:40
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grack posted:Ain't it great that Therrien's gonna get fired after Bergevin traded away a legitimate star player and a fan favourite to appease him?
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Feb 13, 2017 18:45
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I've made my peace with the Subban debacle, and I legitimately am happy we have Weber so I'm not even going to go down that route. Aside from potential, the only thing I was pretty confident about with PK was that he would be a Hab for a long long time (given his choice). Weber I can see loving off back to Nashville or testing the market. At least that's the impression that I get. I'm sure I could be wrong and Subban could have chased a paycheck too, but he seemed to legitimately love Montreal. Wait now I'm angry again. Great.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:05
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Even though he's even or worse in every way, now including points?
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Feb 13, 2017 19:07
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Yeah, but you got Shaw too. Even the Chicago blaggers are talking about him with a "phew glad we offloaded that" tone.  http://blackhawkup.com/2017/02/13/blackhawks-got-the-most-out-of-andrew-shaw/
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Feb 13, 2017 19:08
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Subban never sidelined Gallagher for 2 months. Then again, I'd be more on board if he wasn't saddled with Emelin on EV and PK.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:10
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Martytoof posted:I've made my peace with the Subban debacle, and I legitimately am happy we have Weber so I'm not even going to go down that route. Weber's contract runs until he's 40.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:39
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Martytoof posted:I've made my peace with the Subban debacle, and I legitimately am happy we have Weber so I'm not even going to go down that route. Uh, considering for how long and for how much both guys are signed for I don't think worrying about whether they would re-up with Montreal should have been a concern in any way? I mean Weber is 31 and signed through the 2025-2026 season I think you probably want him loving back off to Nashville if he's still determined to play at that point! AND PK already chased the money when he got Montreal to sign him to the biggest cap hit for a defenseman in the NHL and second richest contract for a defenseman in the NHL (the first being, of course, Shea Weber). Levitate fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 19:42
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Levitate posted:AND PK already chased the money when he got Montreal to sign him to the biggest cap hit for a defenseman in the NHL and second richest contract for a defenseman in the NHL (the first being, of course, Shea Weber). I still love that Goldblum playing hardball with Subban and insisting he sign a bridge deal back in 2012 cost Geoff Molson and co. in the neighbourhood of $30-40M of extra cash over the following decade. Subban asked for 5 years at $5M per or 6 years at $6M per then, but Goldblum got all tough and ornery and refused to sign him long term and now they're saddled with Shea Weber and an angry fanbase until several seasons after the heat death of the universe.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:52
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The CBA expires after the 2011-22 season, and both the Habs and Preds are going to get out of the recapture on Weber's contract.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:53
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Zodijackylite posted:The CBA expires after the 2011-22 season, and both the Habs and Preds are going to get out of the recapture on Weber's contract. Not while Brian Burke draws breath
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Feb 13, 2017 19:54
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Zodijackylite posted:The CBA expires after the 2011-22 season, and both the Habs and Preds are going to get out of the recapture on Weber's contract. IMO that would be a good compromise for closing the Pronger-style LTIR loophole, since that will probably be where most of those recapture contract players are in 2022.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:03
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Burke advocated for the rule both out of fairness and self-redemption, but in this case, neither team really bargained for what they got. The offer sheet itself was intended to circumvent the rules, but it wasn't made by either team. It'll be like the league cutting the Devils new ownership some slack on the Kovalchuk fine.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:04
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Zodijackylite posted:Burke advocated for the rule both out of fairness and self-redemption, but in this case, neither team really bargained for what they got. The offer sheet itself was intended to circumvent the rules, but it wasn't made by either team. It'll be like the league cutting the Devils new ownership some slack on the Kovalchuk fine. Yeah, but if they let one slide, they have to let all of them slide and then that means the Canucks are free of Luongo's penalty and Brian Burke made it a personal crusade to ensure that never happens. Also the CBA technically expires in 2022, but the NHL and NHLPA both have an option to opt out shortly before the 2019 season begins, so expect one of the two to announce their intention to do so just over two years from now.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:06
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Zodijackylite posted:Burke advocated for the rule both out of fairness and self-redemption, but in this case, neither team really bargained for what they got. The offer sheet itself was intended to circumvent the rules, but it wasn't made by either team. It'll be like the league cutting the Devils new ownership some slack on the Kovalchuk fine. Yeah that was Paul Holmgren basically forcing Nashville's hand.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:12
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I think both the players and owners probably feel kind of lovely for a guy like Luongo being publicly dicked around for years, and we know all the GMs hated Homer for that. Not sure what other contracts might be affected by this.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:18
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Zodijackylite posted:I think both the players and owners probably feel kind of lovely for a guy like Luongo being publicly dicked around for years, and we know all the GMs hated Homer for that. Not sure what other contracts might be affected by this. Anything over 8 years, so a bunch including: Sidney Crosby Shea Weber Roberto Luongo Zach Parise Ryan Suter Marian Hossa Duncan Keith Jonathan Quick Jeff Carter and a bunch of others who have already moved on including: Ilya Bryzgalov Brad Richards Vinny Lecavalier Mike Richards Christian Ehrhoff Johan Franzen You'd have to get a majority of owners to let a handful of teams out of some very dubious contracts that benefited them cap wise while escalating salaries across the league. So yeah, they're here to stay. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 20:24
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Zodijackylite posted:I think both the players and owners probably feel kind of lovely for a guy like Luongo being publicly dicked around for years, and we know all the GMs hated Homer for that. Not sure what other contracts might be affected by this. That would require the owners to feel anything.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:27
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ThinkTank posted:Anything over 8 years, so a bunch including: Also Zetterberg and Kronwall. And I think Franzen is still on the books, just perma-IR. Zetterberg has a pretty steep recapture if he retires early at all, at this point.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:41
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grack posted:That would require the owners to feel anything. I thought Dolan feels nothing but hatred and smug towards uppity black folk^W^W^W Charles Oakley.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:46
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iospace posted:I thought Dolan feels nothing but hatred and smug towards uppity black folk^W^W^W Charles Oakley. Well, lemme rephrase that - it would require the owners to feel empathy and I just don't know if that's possible.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:11
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Thufir posted:Also Zetterberg and Kronwall. And I think Franzen is still on the books, just perma-IR. Zetterberg has a pretty steep recapture if he retires early at all, at this point. loving Fire Ken Holland
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Feb 13, 2017 21:12
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I have a hard time imagining what mess the Flyers would be with contracts right now if Holmgren were still GM and damned if the Wings aren't giving some almost perfect insight into what could have been.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:33
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It's a real palantir to a tower of garbage
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Feb 13, 2017 21:33
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 gently caress alex burrows for ever
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Feb 13, 2017 21:41
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grack posted:Well, lemme rephrase that - it would require the owners to feel empathy and I just don't know if that's possible. Let me think of an owner- Nope. Can't. Ok, /maybe/ Mark Cuban and whoever owns the Warriors. But I can't think of any others.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:49
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