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baquerd posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHi3egU7Y_k&t=395s Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? 
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Feb 14, 2017 14:35
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Feb 14, 2017 16:28
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Earlier in this thread I joked about the US only having three dam safety inspectors and blamed that on why the Oroville Dam is currently failing. However, I have since visited the sites for the American Society of Civil Engineers and Association of State Dam Safety Officials and found that I was in error. There are 8 inspectors. But it's not as bad as that might seem - that's a whole 8 inspectors per state! Also the US has 84,000 dams with an average age of 52 years. The overall number of high-hazard dams, as of 2012, was almost 14,000. So there're an entire 400 inspectors to check all those half century old dams. Or, to put it another way - that's a mere 210 dams per inspector.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:29
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Gorilla Salad posted:Earlier in this thread I joked about the US only having three dam safety inspectors and blamed that on why the Oroville Dam is currently failing. That means that each dam would be inspected every five years or less, assuming they spend a week at each one. Seems reasonable.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:35
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I mean, yeah, the problem with americas crumbling infrastructure isn't for lack if it being inspected. All of it gets inspected to hell and back, it just that once the reports are turned in, the beancounters go "Sorry, no money.", and poo poo is left to rot. We joke in this thread about "it ain't worth fixing until somebody dies", but that is literally americas policy these days on infrastructure spending. "Oh, it could go bad in the future? gently caress it, it's the present, not my problem or my money."
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Feb 14, 2017 16:39
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Gorilla Salad posted:Earlies in this thread I joked about the US only having three dam safety inspectors and blamed that on why the big dam is currently failing. Jesus and they're made out of concrete. this may seem obvious to some but concrete fatigues under load and has to be repaired. Maybe less obvious is that a dam may be able to withstand a full resevoir the first time, the second time, the 10^n times. But repeated loads reduce the maximum allowable stress over time Basically this (this is not the graph for concrete), just an example.  I'm just highlighting how important dam inspection will be as the years progress. This dam seems to be failing due to erosion, which is pretty alarming since no inspection can prevent that, it just is very poorly planned
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Feb 14, 2017 16:41
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I mean, yeah, the problem with americas crumbling infrastructure isn't for lack if it being inspected. All of it gets inspected to hell and back, it just that once the reports are turned in, the beancounters go "Sorry, no money.", and poo poo is left to rot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjfrJzdx7DA
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Feb 14, 2017 16:50
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? I'm guessing they felled the tree with some other method, then cut a smoother cross section once it was already down with that saw.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:50
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I should have also linked to the American Society of Civil Engineers' Report Card on US Infrastructure which is a chilling loving read.
Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 16:53
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Gorilla Salad posted:I should have also linked to the American Society of Civil Engineers' Report Card on US Infrastructure which is a chilling loving read. i am here from https://www.tribalwar.com/forums Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 16:53
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Thanks for posting your dick pic, I guess.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:02
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https://twitter.com/CA_DWR/status/831294424973930496 Someone explain to me as a layman why they're fixing the embankment of the washed-away road before focusing on the immediate base of the emergency spillway, where they said the problem was? Or is the breach of the road and the erosion carving through it what they meant, and I'm just misunderstanding this? 
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Feb 14, 2017 17:08
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OSHA 0 days since the last dick pic
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Feb 14, 2017 17:10
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Duzzy Funlop posted:https://twitter.com/CA_DWR/status/831294424973930496 Maybe fixing the road is the best way to get the heavy equipment they need up to the spillway? They have to drop everything in by helicopter, otherwise.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:11
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Just a guess but they might be fixing the road so they can get equipment to the spillway.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:13
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Duzzy Funlop posted:https://twitter.com/CA_DWR/status/831294424973930496 all that torn up ground and the embankment of the road IS the emergency spillway. the problem with water erosion is that it starts in a spot and then heads upstream. the most critical part is the part at the top, the spillway lip the main spillway, the concrete structure, is the part that has a hosed up base
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Feb 14, 2017 17:17
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here's a different angle the big hole that washed out the road is the problem. if that continues to erode it could undermine the concrete lip of the spillway and then everyone has a real lovely day
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Feb 14, 2017 17:19
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boner confessor posted:here's a different angle Got it, that's what I was kinda looking for. So they're going to try to solidify and reinforce the steepest part of that newly-created ravine so any future erosion isn't focused on one spot just below that 1600-foot spillway?
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Feb 14, 2017 17:29
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Got it, that's what I was kinda looking for. yeah, they have two days and counting to plug that hole with enough poo poo that any water release erodes a different part of the hillside that isn't right under the concrete edge of the spillway you can see in those close up pics where they've already put down some new concrete
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Feb 14, 2017 17:31
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We need some of that nazi super concrete from wolfenstein.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:40
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? No. Felling a giant tree while pregnant though? Totally OSHA safe.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:31
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? I'm loving the very obvious "We welded two saws together" spot in the middle of that giant sawblade.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:42
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Gorilla Salad posted:I should have also linked to the American Society of Civil Engineers' Report Card on US Infrastructure which is a chilling loving read. Solid waste gets a B- because it's the industry that gets poo poo on the hardest by everyone so they spend a lot more money keeping everything running smoothly.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:55
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Gorilla Salad posted:I should have also linked to the American Society of Civil Engineers' Report Card on US Infrastructure which is a chilling loving read. Uh "D+" isn't a GPA, "American Society of Civil Engineers" if that is your real name...
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Feb 14, 2017 21:58
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Ornamented Death posted:Solid waste gets a B- because it's the industry that gets poo poo on the hardest by everyone so they spend a lot more money keeping everything running smoothly. it's almost entirely privatized so it's not dependent on polticians who forever defer funds
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Feb 14, 2017 22:01
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boner confessor posted:it's almost entirely privatized so it's not dependent on polticians who forever defer funds It's been my experience that budgets are much, much better when working on municipal and county landfills as opposed to privately-owned sites. Edit: And it's exactly because the sites are owned by cities and counties, as opposed to states or the federal government. It's a lot easier to get approval for a bond when people visit the landfill on a regular basis to drop off their trash.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:04
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? I don't get the logistics of this. How did the trunk not clamp down on the blade 3/4s of the way through sawing? Did they do an angle cut? Or did they fell the tree, and thats just a cross section after they cut it while it was laying down?
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Feb 14, 2017 23:46
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blarzgh posted:I don't get the logistics of this. You can see the marks on the top of the log where they drove wedges into the cut to keep it open as they sawed.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:47
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Gorilla Salad posted:But it's not as bad as that might seem - that's a whole 8 inspectors per state! Well hopefully the ones left are the best, back in the day my family had an inspector refuse to sign off on a 10 ft high dam (maybe 10 ft across? Just a guess) on a stream unless they put an expansion joint right in the middle. Guess where it finally failed? I know, other factors at play but dam.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:26
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Deteriorata posted:You can see the marks on the top of the log where they drove wedges into the cut to keep it open as they sawed. Question: answered.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:32
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is it OSHA safe if you have to weld two saws together just to cut the tree down? That's nothing: look at the size of this chicken: 
spog fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 00:34
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Deteriorata posted:That means that each dam would be inspected every five years or less, assuming they spend a week at each one. Seems reasonable. The vast majority of dam inspection is by telemetry, using vibrating wire piezometers and strain gauges (all telemetered) to keep a continuous eye on seepage and deformation. If nothing is found to be deficient, it usually takes a day or two to inspect a dam. Generally the inspector is the qualified engineer; he or she will usually be assisted by people who are on the payroll as "general labour" or similar. ethanol posted:Jesus and they're made out of concrete. this may seem obvious to some but concrete fatigues under load and has to be repaired. Maybe less obvious is that a dam may be able to withstand a full resevoir the first time, the second time, the 10^n times. But repeated loads reduce the maximum allowable stress over time Concrete has a flexure limit. So long as your dam (or other concrete structure) is designed to keep the concrete under this limit, it won't fatigue. This dam is an earth wall dam with a clay core. What will be fun is older multistory carparks and bridges which were not designed around literally everyone driving 2+ tonne trucks. Erosive flows are an issue any time a dam is overtopped; in this case, it was a secondary saddle that was being overtopped and eroded, not the main dam. The erosion of the saddle is an issue but its failure would be akin to a fuse plug, and prevent overtopping to the main body of the dam thereby avoiding significantly worse failure. Concrete dams are also subject to failure this way, generally through scouring of the abutments and toe. Gorilla Salad posted:The overall number of high-hazard dams, as of 2012, was almost 14,000. Need to point out here that "high hazard" doesn't automatically denote that the dam is at-risk. Dam hazard classifications are based on the outcome of dam break failure, not the probability of a dam-break failure; the hazard classification will be used in determining things like maximum design inflow at TWL (e.g. a low-risk dam might only have a 1:100 spillway). ANCOLD will tell you more on the topic than you're ever likely to want to know but they'll also charge you $200 for the book; tellingly they start with a disclaimer that if you follow their advice to the letter and bad things happen, that's on you. boner confessor posted:here's a different angle Hope one of you owns a shotcreting company. That still looks like the saddle. I'll be interested how the main spillway looks once it's dry. As has been said, fixing the road lets you get equipment where it's needed to effect repairs on the toe of the spillway apron, which is why it gets fixed (to a pretty low value of 'fixed') first. VVV: The concrete apron to the left of the photo I quoted is the crest of the emergency spillway/saddle dam, and the thing that I'm talking about accessing. The other option is to repair it off a barge. IPCRESS fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 00:49
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IPCRESS posted:Hope one of you owns a shotcreting company. according to google maps, the washed out road just leads to a public boat ramp. from the perspective of that aerial image, there are plenty of access roads allowing to the main spillway on the far side of it
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Feb 15, 2017 00:57
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spog posted:That's nothing: look at the size of this chicken: I don't know if having a huge cock is an OSHA violation
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Feb 15, 2017 01:12
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boner confessor posted:yeah, they have two days and counting to plug that hole with enough poo poo that any water release erodes a different part of the hillside that isn't right under the concrete edge of the spillway  This is from Monday evening. That...does not seem like a lot of accomplishment since they vowed airdropping rocks 24 hours earlier...
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Feb 15, 2017 02:27
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Duzzy Funlop posted:
I was watching news yesterday and one of the helicopter pilots made it a point to mention they had to wait a full day to start the airlifts because the state hadn't given the go ahead. "We were ready Sunday." Also I'm not sure when this is from, I think earlier Tuesday  I'm not an engineer or anything but I don't see that concrete doing much if they laid it on top of a leak. Edit: Also I didn't realize the damage came from only 5% of what the emergency spillway was supposed to be able to handle. Space Crabs fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 02:45
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Dams are dumb as hell
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Feb 15, 2017 02:47
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Rain's gonna start up again tomorrow night and continue for at least two days so I sure hope they've got a plan 
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Feb 15, 2017 02:51
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ethanol posted:Dams are dumb as hell no more almonds for you
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Feb 15, 2017 02:51
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Space Crabs posted:I was watching news yesterday and one of the helicopter pilots made it a point to mention they had to wait a full day to start the airlifts because the state hadn't given the go ahead. "We were ready Sunday." Also, someone said earlier they had already seen new concrete being poured, referring to an image that showed the circled section, albeit from a different angle. That section, however, had already been poured as a last-ditch effort in the 1-2 days before the emergency spillway even overflowed. So progress seems pretty drat slow as of at least this morning. And the state not giving the go ahead to fix a loving disaster waiting to happen seems perfectly reasonable. Bonus points if the holdup was due to the NOTAM issued earlier. (Then again, I cannot, for the life of me, imagine that it would have grounded emergency aircraft as well) 
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Feb 15, 2017 03:11
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