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CommonShore posted:The FTM was the typo. Yeah, I realized after I re-parsed your post. No worries! Josuke Higashikata posted:In my experience, this isn't always true and gender neutral pronouns should probably be used when you're addressing someone who you know is trans but not how they fully identify. S'not like that's hard or intended to cause offence. Absolutely being gender neutral is an easy way to avoid offense, however if someone is explicitly telling you they identify male or female you're not going to be wrong if you use the pronouns that match that. There's always exceptions of course so if you're the cautious sort I encourage you to do exactly what you say.
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Feb 14, 2017 15:56
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Yeah, this part isn't as well studied, but the IOC was comfortable enough that it didn't effect athletic performance that it's a non-issue. Anecdotally I've lost like 4" off my biceps so far. true. but i think the supposed argument about muscle memory and bone structure applies the other way too, if anything there should be some concern for people born as women intending to fight men. i dont believe that trans athletes have an unfair performance advantage but i do have a really hard time believing that there arent at least some features of the human body exclusive to birth gender that cant be reversed or fortified by hormones or testosterone. its not really my battle to fight though
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Feb 14, 2017 16:09
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I get wanting things to be as fair as possible, and I also get why there are a lot of reasons this is an imperfect metaphor, but I think ultimately it's impossible to regulate physiology to be "fair" to everyone in the same division even within the same gender. Like Jon Jones has stupid physical advantages in that he has gibbon arms and is not 43 years old, and no one argues that he shouldn't be allowed to compete at light heavyweight until he catches up in age to the division's average and gets arm shortening surgery. Bigfoot Silva obviously took hormonal matters into his own hands and rear end, but his pituitary disorder arguably could have been considered a physical advantage as it made him big and powerful or whatever, and people didn't make it super weird about him fighting at heavyweight either. Again, I know there's a lot more to it with trans fighters, but if people are cool with getting in the cage with Jon Jones knowing he can pluck their eyes out from across the cage, I don't have a problem with people getting in the cage knowing their opponent changed genders or whatever if everyone is cool with it.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:14
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I.N.R.I posted:true. but i think the supposed argument about muscle memory and bone structure applies the other way too, if anything there should be some concern for people born as women intending to fight men. i dont believe that trans athletes have an unfair performance advantage but i do have a really hard time believing that there arent at least some features of the human body exclusive to birth gender that cant be reversed or fortified by hormones or testosterone. its not really my battle to fight though yeah. there's definitely questions but i think they mostly exist because nobody's given a gently caress to do any research. now that trans people are coming into the national conversation a bit maybe we'll see some actually studies. even the standard hormone therapy trans people take is based mostly on "well, some doctors gave this poo poo to some folks in the 60s and it worked out ok so this is what we do now". there's very little research into actual optimal treatments and specific effects of the compounds. otoh, you look at a cis woman like Gabi Garcia and it's pretty clear that some of these extreme body differences are present even in variation amongst cis people. granted her weight would keep her out of any real women's weight class.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:16
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I.N.R.I posted:true. but i think the supposed argument about muscle memory and bone structure applies the other way too, if anything there should be some concern for people born as women intending to fight men. i dont believe that trans athletes have an unfair performance advantage but i do have a really hard time believing that there arent at least some features of the human body exclusive to birth gender that cant be reversed or fortified by hormones or testosterone. its not really my battle to fight though There's variation in things like bone structure and muscle density among men/women, too. This is where we start to get really complicated, because there's an impulse to start quantifying these things, so beyond the endocrine questions I'm inclined to say "gently caress it." If a FTM person decides to go fight men, he may have lower bone density than the median male competitor and that's his assumed risk, but a) half of the cis competitors will have below-median bone density relative to all competitors, and b) he also may end up having better flexibility and an easier time making weight because of his differently-shaped pelvis and lighter bones. That's more of a tradeoff than any kind of "advantage," and every human body has those kinds of tradeoffs. For example, Jon Jones has freak arms, but his dick doesn't work. The TRT question is, as noted, probably the bigger one.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:19
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CommonShore posted:There's variation in things like bone structure and muscle density among men/women, too. This is where we start to get really complicated, because there's an impulse to start quantifying these things, so beyond the endocrine questions I'm inclined to say "gently caress it." we agree there. but in this particular case i think that stronger research is necessary because its a medical matter rather than biological
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Feb 14, 2017 16:37
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Hopefully there will be enough trans people to have their own division one day because, I, for one, am sick of these big clits and am ready for some lady dick.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:43
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I think WADA has taken the path of least resistance because there's not an athlete good enough to force their hand, but they're inevitably going down a path where the research question is difficult to formulate, difficult to test, and is going to be hugely politicised regardless of the outcome. Not having that research in place but making guidelines anyway sets a bad precedent, doing the research puts an anti doping agency in the uncomfortable position of having to test a spectrum of performance enhancing or inhibiting drugs in athletes (when they already outright ban any hormonal manipulation) and then making recommendations on drug protocols. Sports performance protocols are horrible, hard to recruit for, and hard to prevent dropout in, which is why you get soldiers forced to run in the heat with a thermometer in their rear end. Ultimately I think this is a minefield nobody gets out of in one piece.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:53
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I don't think we'll have to worry about this anytime soon. Its not like an olympic sport where you can qualify for the trials and if you perform they have no choice but to let you compete, Dana White is going to take one look at the next Fallon Fox and go "oh, hell no". I don't think many B-level promotions will want that headache either.
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Feb 14, 2017 16:54
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Rigel posted:I don't think we'll have to worry about this anytime soon. Its not like an olympic sport where you can qualify for the trials and if you perform they have no choice but to let you compete, Dana White is going to take one look at the next Fallon Fox and go "oh, hell no". I don't think many B-level promotions will want that headache either. Once again MMA has been saved by our prejudiced white dad.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:18
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Rigel posted:I don't think we'll have to worry about this anytime soon. Its not like an olympic sport where you can qualify for the trials and if you perform they have no choice but to let you compete, Dana White is going to take one look at the next Fallon Fox and go "oh, hell no". I don't think many B-level promotions will want that headache either. Yeah. Ultimately I don't think you're going to see trans MMA fighters in the high levels of the sport any time soon both because there's just not many of them, and to get to a point where people are talking about you nationally means you are performing near the top of your sport and there's frankly a lot of barriers in front of most trans people that preclude training to that level. Although I do want to hear Joe Rogan ramble incoherently for a while about whether it's unfair for a trans woman to wear a cup in the octagon since opponents aren't used to accidentally kicking them and hurting their toes or something.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:21
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Joe Rogan would more likely rant about how a trans woman shouldn't be allowed to fight cis women, because that was his opinion on Fallon Fox
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Feb 14, 2017 17:50
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Dr. Abysmal posted:Joe Rogan would more likely rant about how a trans woman shouldn't be allowed to fight cis women, because that was his opinion on Fallon Fox I was more thinking of the scenario where a trans woman fighting in the UFC was a done deal and he had to toe the company line.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:53
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Threads getting bad.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:55
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I was more thinking of the scenario where a trans woman fighting in the UFC was a done deal and he had to toe the company line. You're kidding right? Joe Rogan is the guy who made reference to "gash" as a derogatory term for women on a PPV. He wouldn't change his tune one bit. Mind though that after the Fallon Fox controversy he had Buck Angel on his show and had a fairly sensible (for Joe Rogan) discussion on the topic, and basically admitted to being an ignorant dummy on the topic, and conceded (for that time) that he had quite a bit to learn.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:56
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CommonShore posted:Mind though that after the Fallon Fox controversy he had Buck Angel on his show and had a fairly sensible (for Joe Rogan) discussion on the topic, and basically admitted to being an ignorant dummy on the topic, and conceded (for that time) that he had quite a bit to learn. That sounds about right.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:59
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Memento posted:how loving good is the new RTJ Pretty good but I'm pretty over their maudlin moments
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Feb 14, 2017 18:03
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Work Friend Keven posted:Threads getting bad. yeah
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Feb 14, 2017 18:08
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I think Derrick "The Black Beast" Lewis Vs Travis Browne should be really good, im really rooting for Derrick as he seems to be very funny on social media. Please tell me he hasn't got any horror stories in his closet and hes a legit nice guy.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:11
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willie_dee posted:I think Derrick "The Black Beast" Lewis Vs Travis Browne should be really good, im really rooting for Derrick as he seems to be very funny on social media. He has a horror story out in public and it was his last fight
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Feb 14, 2017 18:18
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Work Friend Keven posted:Threads getting bad. Sorry mobln found something new to pretend to be, and we are all adjusting. But just like when they pretended to be exercising or training martial arts, we will adjust and overcome.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:20
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Rick "The Derrick Lewis boo boo" Story
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Feb 14, 2017 18:22
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Someone make a trans athletes in MMA thread and go post about your gender theories there please 
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Feb 14, 2017 18:25
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kensei posted:Someone make a trans athletes in MMA thread and go post about your gender theories there please We did that and admins got mad at it
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Feb 14, 2017 18:27
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willie_dee posted:I think Derrick "The Black Beast" Lewis Vs Travis Browne should be really good, im really rooting for Derrick as he seems to be very funny on social media. He served three and a half years in prison for aggravated assault (of a KKK guy according to him) and the UFC did a fluff piece on how MMA turned his life around prior to his last fight which was insanely bad
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Feb 14, 2017 18:28
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david carmichael posted:We did that and admins got mad at it But then I don't have to look at it in the UFC thread! There are no trans fighters in the UFC (that we know of) so it doesn't really belong here, Joe Rogan theories be damned.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:29
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I agree that the concept of fairness is fake and also that the science is extremely hard to even formulate into a coherent and meaningful question let alone performing the actual studies. I do think analysis of trans people in mma from both competition and social points of view is more interesting than for instance a Holly Holm fight or a Travis Browne fight or what have you
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Feb 14, 2017 18:30
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I also think people being nakedly and consistently mean to mobn or anyone without even the pretense of trying to be funny is something that we can do without. It doesn't seem to be funny or fun for anyone involved, so why in the world are we doing it
david carmichael fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 18:35
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david carmichael posted:I also think people being nakedly and consistently mean to mobn or anyone without even the pretense of trying to be funny is something that we can do without. It doesn't seem to be funny nor fun for anyone involved, so why in the world are we doing it i was worried about precedent when the worst poster in the thread made fun of the second worst poster in the thread and a new moderator took action
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Feb 14, 2017 18:39
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Be nice, unless it's funny, then don't be nice.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:40
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Joe rogan knows way less about gender than me in the imaginary conversations he has in my mind
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Feb 14, 2017 18:48
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https://twitter.com/bokamotoESPN/status/831559504923799552 https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/831560488345563138
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Feb 14, 2017 18:49
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I think Browne is gonna finish da beast
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Feb 14, 2017 18:50
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Please, everyone please be dumb enough to let Conor get his head boxed off on PPV.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:54
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Browne probably wins this one, and then loses to whoever his next fight is to keep him out of a title shot, per Chael Sonnen's demon pact
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Feb 14, 2017 18:54
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Follow Joanna on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/BQef6lXl1vv/
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Feb 14, 2017 18:55
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Triticum Guzzler posted:Joe rogan knows way less about gender than me in the imaginary conversations he has in my mind When I run this convo I'm slightly ahead on gender but hes winning on bigfoot & his news radio stories are better than my story about the time a guy tried to bury his dog in a culvert installation, plus his muscles are bigger, but it's due to TRT. Anyways all this isn't that important because the scenario quickly shifts to phase two, we're trapped in Germany & have to find wives in 24 hours or a bomb goes off.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:58
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tesilential posted:Mobn, never change lol
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Feb 14, 2017 18:58
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Boco_T posted:Follow Joanna on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/BQef6lXl1vv/ She is adjusting to life in Florida well.
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Feb 14, 2017 19:03
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Rigel posted:https://twitter.com/bokamotoESPN/status/831559504923799552 I wonder if the UFC is on board. Maybe they will just get 10% of Conor's purse or something. But if they aren't I wonder how long they could hold it up in court. Its unclear how enforceable UFC contracts are w/r/t other sports, especially with how close MMA comes to falling under the Ali act
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Feb 14, 2017 19:04
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