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El Roncho posted:Gabi Garcia is more likely but it's no guarantee she'd win. Also competent reffing about the hair pulls. That kickbox lady was lighting Yoshiko up until she kept snagging her hair
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Feb 14, 2017 05:57
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Captain Log posted:Eh, I get what you're saying but I don't agree. Especially Anderson, he is so technical half his fights look like movies. i agree with him, technical skill and creativity is actually only a part of being good at sports. learning how to train and recover effectively, learning how to use your attributes whatever they are, having the discipline to stick to a diet, make weight, having the sense to train in such a way that you dont get injured or at least separate the advice of people who can instill that kind of sense in you from those that cant, having or at least developing the type of spiritual strength you need to succeed under all of this pressure and impress your will not only on your opponents but the dozens of people involved in running the circus you work for, and the strength to overcome any setbacks to your career .. thats what talent is. dont think for a second u can just be genetically gifted and be a world champion at something, if youre not the best in the world youll trip over something before you even get close
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Feb 14, 2017 05:57
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I.N.R.I posted:i agree with him, technical skill and creativity is actually only a part of being good at sports. learning how to train and recover effectively, learning how to use your attributes whatever they are, having the discipline to stick to a diet, make weight, having the sense to train in such a way that you dont get injured or at least separate the advice of people who can instill that kind of sense in you from those that cant, having or at least developing the type of spiritual strength you need to succeed under all of this pressure and impress your will not only on your opponents but the dozens of people involved in running the circus you work for, and the strength to overcome any setbacks to your career .. thats what talent is. dont think for a second u can just be genetically gifted and be a world champion at something, if youre not the best in the world youll trip over something before you even get close I respect that, especially coming from the one known forums pro athlete. I just think Brock and Gabi wouldn't be where they are without the gift of being huge. I guess in my "hierarchy of value" genetic luck is pretty low.
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Feb 14, 2017 06:07
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El Roncho posted:Gabi Garcia is more likely but it's no guarantee she'd win. Apparently this Yoshiko is a bad person but not enough that I'd want to see Gabi Garcia fight more people that are a foot shorter and 100 lbs lighter than her
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Feb 14, 2017 06:19
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Captain Log posted:Eh, I get what you're saying but I don't agree. Especially Anderson, he is so technical half his fights look like movies. all those movies with really technical fights, like rocky and play it to the bone and poo poo
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Feb 14, 2017 06:23
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Skip My Posts posted:all those movies with really technical fights, like rocky and play it to the bone and poo poo You're a fun person, aren't you?
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Feb 14, 2017 07:06
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i just think technical is the opposite of what fights are like in movies
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Feb 14, 2017 07:07
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I.N.R.I posted:its a hostile environment for sure, moreso than in other sports because the way it is is that theres no clear progression to the top and not every fight can be judged conclusively but its BS all the fighters are dealing with, some better than others. unless theres something truly underhanded going on like match fixing or company sponsored ped use i personally think using a bit of social engineering or riding on your established accomplishments to get a leg up is fair game and just another way for a fighter to shine. of course it dilutes the concept of who is actually the better fighter but generally the cream rises to the top and then sooner or later loses to a better style of cream in a cage fight Even in MMA the phenomenon of having all the best guys in one promotion is relatively recent. It wasn't that long ago that Yoel, Rockhold, and Jacare were all in Strikeforce for example. The cream does generally rise to the top but for most of MMA history there was uh, two separate milk bottles, and occasionally um, a retarded magpie would come and steal the lid from one and take it to its nest where it would lose to anonymous guys from Russia in front of 2000 people in Japan.
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Feb 14, 2017 12:05
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Dr. Abysmal posted:Apparently this Yoshiko is a bad person but not enough that I'd want to see Gabi Garcia fight more people that are a foot shorter and 100 lbs lighter than her Idk she permanently blinded her pro wrestling opponent in one eye so I think it's a wash in this case
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Feb 14, 2017 12:27
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Captain Log posted:I respect that, especially coming from the one known forums pro athlete. I just think Brock and Gabi wouldn't be where they are without the gift of being huge. I guess in my "hierarchy of value" genetic luck is pretty low. Brock got to the top by combining being huge and fast with pro wrestling charisma and actual wrestling ability. Gabi got to the top by combining being huge with weird Japanese sexual reasons.
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Feb 14, 2017 14:56
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Kung fu movies don't exist all the sudden?
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Feb 14, 2017 17:34
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El Roncho posted:Kung fu movies don't exist all the sudden? I will fight anyone who doesn't think Legend of Drunken Master and 36 Chambers of Shaolin are accurate tutorials in the deadly art of gung fu.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:35
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Captain Log posted:Sorry to start the derail. I think we are all in the same place with different opinions. I personally differentiate being gifted with being skilled. Brock Lesnar is a UFC caliber great fighter but there is nothing technical about him. Plop him in a smaller body and he'd be Wild Bill's fight champ and that's about it. Brock's top game was pretty good, he was really nasty with his half guard control and GNP. I think you're really underestimating how effectively he fought there; similar-sized guys like Bigfoot (well, not similar in body composition but he was a big dude nonetheless) didn't exhibit the same kind of consistent top position dominance and damage dealing abilities Brock had. Dude had a college record of 106-5 wrestling at a D1 school, he's very very skilled. Of course physical attributes make a difference in how you fight, but that's true for every fighter.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:53
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1st AD posted:Brock's top game was pretty good, he was really nasty with his half guard control and GNP. I think you're really underestimating how effectively he fought there; similar-sized guys like Bigfoot (well, not similar in body composition but he was a big dude nonetheless) didn't exhibit the same kind of consistent top position dominance and damage dealing abilities Brock had. Dude had a college record of 106-5 wrestling at a D1 school, he's very very skilled. Yeah. There's a video out there that broke down how effectively Brock used overhooks to neutralize all of Mir's techniques in their second fight. His attributes helped, but you don't overcome Frank Mir's grappling with just brute strength.
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Feb 14, 2017 17:59
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Brock is very skilled especially for a heavyweight
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Feb 14, 2017 19:05
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Yeah I remember the days when we MMA goons literally had no hope for a savior and it looked like this prowrestling guy was going to rule over HW forever. Then the curse kicked in.
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Feb 14, 2017 19:53
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However even in college his size was an enormous part of his game. He outweighed most opponents by 20-40 pounds and many were still competitive with him.
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Feb 14, 2017 19:54
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That's a good point, he was massive as a child and caught with a copious amount of roids at the age of 18 or so.
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Feb 14, 2017 20:52
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I've listened to A BUNCH of Chael talk (see AV) about brocks wrestling career which made it sound as though his size was what made him a killer. It's rubbed off on me and I can't help but agree.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:03
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Brock was definitely good at wrestling for obvious reasons like everyone pointed out. He was not good at striking and reacted poorly to being hit, and for those reasons didn't really threaten with level changes and all the other types of ways we traditionally see good mma fighters threaten to get take downs in mma, however here his insane size and strength advantages and weak division made this significantly less of an issue. So if you want to point to that and say that particular thing is what makes him untalented, I guess you can, since if you transported that skill set into like, Jon Dodson's body, Dodson would probably win less often. But since you cannot physically separate a fighter's skills from their physical attributes, that is academic, and not really a sound reason to say Lesnar was talentless.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:23
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Captain Log posted:I've listened to A BUNCH of Chael talk (see AV) about brocks wrestling career which made it sound as though his size was what made him a killer. It's rubbed off on me and I can't help but agree. Chael is the perpetual Second Place Sonnen and I would really take his opinions on that stuff with a grain of salt. Bottom line, contrary to his claims of being the biggest draw of all time, Brock, Conor, GSP, and Rousey made waaaaaaaay more money off PPV than Chael ever did. Chael says a lot of poo poo and probably believes a lot of it too, just always be present to the fact that he could never get it done in wrestling, politics, pizza, or in MMA.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:10
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1st AD posted:Chael is the perpetual Second Place Sonnen and I would really take his opinions on that stuff with a grain of salt. Bottom line, contrary to his claims of being the biggest draw of all time, Brock, Conor, GSP, and Rousey made waaaaaaaay more money off PPV than Chael ever did. Agree. I mean, Chael admits to having roided himself all to hell in order to compete so it's not surprising that he might have formed the idea that strength and size trump skill in MMA.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:13
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Chael was at his biggest for the Jones and Rashad fights and still got easily tossed around.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:16
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Demian Maia lateral dropped Chael and made it look like he'd never stepped foot on the mat before.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:18
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1st AD posted:Chael was at his biggest for the Jones and Rashad fights and still got easily tossed around. I think we're agreeing, but yeah that's what I mean. It's not just Brock's size that let him compete, even if it is part of the formula.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:19
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brock wasn't good at getting hit but his striking was effective before he got shellshocked. flattened heath, knocked out randy, did pretty well against cain before he got hurt and helicoptered.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:27
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EmmyOk posted:I keep meaning to ask, is you name supposed to be a soundalike for Jesus Christ? That is correct. High school is a weird time. I.N.R.I posted:they should have fought him then in my opinion. if theoretical results are what decides whos the best at something then why bother getting out of bed I get your point, but if you say someone is literally the best and then they get beaten badly by people that were very much around at the time they were the "best" (namely Overeem, Cain was arguably unknown when Lesnar won the title over Couture), then the argument doesn't hold up super well. I do agree though that until someone proves otherwise, you can only go by the results.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:25
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The claim that he was the best is specious, but so is the claim that he's not skilled at fighting.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:04
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Gzuz-Kriced posted:That is correct. High school is a weird time. Even if you want to just go by the results & who has the belt, the issue is situations like with Pride and UFC back in the day where half of the good fighters are in one org and the other half in the other one (for the sake of argument) and both are pretty equally prestigious/popular. Then you have to start coming up with your own justifications for who is actually the best, knowing that most of those guys wont ever fight each other in their prime, which is where it differs from most other sports
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Feb 15, 2017 00:08
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Despite my posting, I'm a fairly self aware person. I'm also very aware of Chael "Chael-ing" the gently caress out of things. But for me I can think of a list of the most gifted athletes, technical athletes, and athletes that blend both. That's why I started out saying I didn't want to get into semantics because I'm keenly aware that a gifted person can be talented and vice versa. I also don't think Brock is a chump. I just think his skill set in even an average sized heavyweight wouldn't have transferred to such success.
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Feb 15, 2017 05:23
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Captain Log posted:Despite my posting, I'm a fairly self aware person. I'm also very aware of Chael "Chael-ing" the gently caress out of things. But for me I can think of a list of the most gifted athletes, technical athletes, and athletes that blend both. That's why I started out saying I didn't want to get into semantics because I'm keenly aware that a gifted person can be talented and vice versa. I also don't think Brock is a chump. I just think his skill set in even an average sized heavyweight wouldn't have transferred to such success. The nuance is that an average sized heavyweight wouldn't try to develop a skillset like Brock's. What a fighter does to be successful is going to be linked to what his body can do in some way. It's the same reason P4P rankings are kinda dumb. Of course Mighty Mouse's skillset on a normal sized human probably wouldn't be as effective, to make the obtuse opposite argument.
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Feb 15, 2017 05:33
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The bleague thread was made 4 years ago...sum1 should make a new one
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Feb 15, 2017 05:36
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Alright, no semantics - Brock folds like a Wal-Mart hobo chair during stand up and with his "gifts" he should be the GOAT. Because of that, gently caress 'em. If someone still has a link to Pat Barry's reaction to the question about training Brock in stand up, go ahead and post it now, please and thank you.
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Feb 15, 2017 05:51
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Brock went down to dudes who hit *very* hard. Carwin, Overreem, and Cain aren't exactly Bob's Wings and poo poo Rodeo Fight Series heavies. Plus Lesnar muscled through shots from Hunt. Dude is beastly. But is he GOAT? No. Maybe in terms of hype and marketing. Is he a highlight reel of fights? Yes, absolutely.
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Feb 15, 2017 06:02
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Lord Waffle Beard posted:The bleague thread was made 4 years ago...sum1 should make a new one i've been half-assedly working on one for a while i'll try to get something up after this weekend's bellator
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Feb 15, 2017 06:04
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The Agony and the Ecstasy - A B-League Conundrum
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Feb 15, 2017 06:32
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Captain Log posted:Alright, no semantics - People can be greatly gifted in one area, and still have weaknesses. Jon Jones is unstoppable in the octagon, but has a weakness for white women and cocaine. Or something you might understand better: Pikachu is really good, right? Pikachu is an electric type, so Ground type moves do a lot of damage against it. Electric type moves don't even affect Ground Type Pokemon. Electric moves aren't very effective against Dragon and Grass Types either, but Dragon and Grass type moves cause normal damage against Electric types.
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Feb 15, 2017 06:48
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Fozzy The Bear posted:People can be greatly gifted in one area, and still have weaknesses. Jon Jones is unstoppable in the octagon, but has a weakness for white women and cocaine. I'm in my thirties so I have no loving idea what you are talking about. But I appreciate the effort.
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Feb 15, 2017 07:34
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LobsterMobster posted:i've been half-assedly working on one for a while I was going to nominate you!
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Feb 15, 2017 15:56
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http://bellator.spike.com/video-clips/r71wim/bellator-172-the-legend-of-fedor-s-sweater destroy utterly this vile company
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Feb 15, 2017 16:23
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