World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

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Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Donald Trump bad, therefore abdicate all political power and technology and live in a dirt cottage and die at 55.

Tiny Deer posted:

It's a cool game, but it's not friendly to novices. You kind of already really have to want to play Mage before you pick up the 1e to stick with it, or at least that's what I've noticed with people--so it's an anecdote, dismiss it if you want. I understand 2e is more approachable?

The thing that helped me understand Mage was realizing that it's actually like the sixth or seventh game in a lineage of wizardgames, and the first couple entries were basically "here's a thin layer of the most 90s RPG mechanics imaginable over actual alchemy and occultism with the serial numbers filed off."

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:01

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 01:01

Desiden: Mar 13, 2016; Mindless self indulgence is SRS BIZNS

Archonex posted:

Yeah, that's the real ancient mystery to uncover here. Who are you guys hanging out with that Atlantis is a tired concept?

Ancient alien believers and other pseudoscience nutters.

I mean, I could care less about Atlantis in Mage, especially if its going for a gonzo vibe. But any attempt to have me treat it like serious, deep, business in whatever setting is just going to make me think of the one and only paranormal con I went to, where a guy explained how enlightened aliens had psychically stimulated his prostate to collect "quality genetic material for their millennia long project to uplift humanity". Atlantis was apparently part of this uplifting project, as was the Matrix Reloaded (which had come out that year). I doubt most people have that specific of a mental image, but I'd say a good portion of the popular image of "serious thinking about Atlantis" today is the "I'm not saying it was aliens..." history channel meme guy, not Plato. Whether that works for the setting that uses it or not depends on what you're going for.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:04

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

Desiden posted:

I could care less

Then what's stopping you?

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:08

Yessod: Mar 21, 2007

Archonex posted:

Yeah, that's the real ancient mystery to uncover here. Who are you guys hanging out with that Atlantis is a tired concept?

And then proposing as a solution Lemuria, which definitely does not have any new age baggage as the home of Blavatsky's pure Aryan Tibetan Yeti Astronauts.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:10

Cool Dad: Jun 15, 2007; It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

Brainiac Five posted:

Judging from how people are reacting to the possibility of discussion, the people turned off by it are morons.

This whole line of attack on the game ultimately views roleplaying games not as works of craft, but as marketing exercises. Atlantis doesn't pander to me, damages the Holy Brand. Away with it, let's have a focus-tested alternative that reduces complaints on Internet forums by 22%!

Funnily enough, this line of objection is directly opposed to the objections to Beast, which are primarily on these artistic/literary grounds, not pearl-clutching over the Onyx Path finances. I don't suspect people who parrot memes like "Magechat! Squaaaaawkkk!" to recognize this conflict, admittedly.

Ok I think you are not operating with the same set of concepts I am and I don't believe that we can communicate effectively.

"I think that the ideas presented were difficult to see through the cultural significance of this name" has not a loving thing to do with marketing.

"I didn't like this aspect of a previous version of the game" is not an attack on the game, and the mere idea that games are things that require attacking or defending is insane to me. You do know you can criticize things without hating them and that you can like things while still acknowledging that they have flaws, right?

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Yeah I'm somewhere between completely agreeing with Brainiac on one hand, and on the other hand totally embracing all the pop cultural "baggage" because it's funny and I like the gonzo attitude towards world-building anyways. Either way, Atlantis is fine.

My whole problem with the 1e core is the presentation, which suggests that Atlantis specifically is extremely important to the game, as an in character element that is a fundamental part of the game's setting and themes. At no point does the core imply any sort of "gonzo" take on the setting, it takes the entire thing extremely seriously in a very straightforward, frankly boring way.

My impression from reading the core book is: Mages are the heirs to the power and traditions of ancient Atlantis, a place of great magic and enlightenment. This wisdom was left behind by dragons, from whom we learned to access supernal reality from which we draw magic powers. Atlantis fell because when the mages tried to reach the supernal realms, the Exarchs betrayed the others in pursuit of their own power. You, the protagonist, are trying to recover the power of ancient Atlantis.

The impression I have of mage now is completely different, and frankly I forgot Atlantis was a setting element at all until one of the guys in my group brought it up when we were deciding what to play. Now it goes something like "The world we know is a shadow of true reality, and we are prevented from reaching that higher truth by the Exarchs and their Lie. As a mage, you have an awareness of this and can fight the Lie and aspire to reach Supernal Truth, which you do by solving mysteries and doing awesome poo poo."

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:34

Oligopsony: May 17, 2007

It doesn't seem to me that the Orders need to be keyed into Atlantis in any deep way (not that it's a problem when they are): if you discover that you have super-powers and the world is ruled by evil gods keeping us out of Heaven and there a supernatural mysteries everywhere, "organize a fight against the evil gods," "investigate mysteries," "prevent other wizards from doing something stupid," "take up some other cause," and "sell out" aren't exhaustive of the things you might want to do, but they're certainly all understandable.

Yessod posted:

And then proposing as a solution Lemuria, which definitely does not have any new age baggage as the home of Blavatsky's pure Aryan Tibetan Yeti Astronauts.

The parts that explicitly engage with with that are actually great though!

There's a lot of crazy out there and I'm glad Mage is basically able to draw deep from all of it.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:34

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

"Blavatsky's Pure Aryan Tibetan Yeti Astronauts" would make a fantastic band name.

e: I always liked Atlantis as a source for Indiana Jones style adventures. Since it was made clear it never existed (but didn't always never exist), I found I liked it even more because it makes the debate of what Atlantis is all the more relevant and interesting.

The Thyrsus I play is a thearch who has trouble seeing cities as utopian and thus sees Atlantis as a people rather than a place; a society that exists in tune with its world and is ultimately free from needs; a kind of Edenic existence. That other thearchs can disagree without just being able to say "You're wrong! It was clearly a city!" is a real plus in this edition. I love those dogmatic feuds.

Axelgear fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 17:36

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Yessod posted:

And then proposing as a solution Lemuria, which definitely does not have any new age baggage as the home of Blavatsky's pure Aryan Tibetan Yeti Astronauts.

I mean, if we've gotta be exceptionally pedantic about Atlantis and possible names therein then at least Lemuria has more of a directed pop culture connotation as being an ancient and fantastic fallen city than Atlantis does. Hell, given the pro-mage supremacy arguments you can find quite a few people making it probably fits there too.

I can at least understand where people are coming from with that. Though I don't necessarily think it matters what you call it. Hell, call it Dr. Shockley's House of Cocks and Shocks if you really want and can somehow make it stick. Whatever it's called is supposed to be a metaphor for the potential, hubris, and foolishness of mages and humanity as a whole. That's it.

Even setting all that aside, I distinctly recall that Atlantis is just a catch-all name for what is at it's core the concept of an awakened society that's out and ruling over the muggles. Pretty sure you could call it whatever you want. Mages just go with Atlantis as the common term because the OP and WW writers can at times be a bit unoriginal or in extreme cases just plain "off" (See: Beast and Exalted 3e's rape charms write up as an example.). Atlantis almost seems like the sort of holdover you'd see in Mage: The Ascension in how gonzo it is, so I wouldn't be surprised to note if they took some inspiration from that one crazy guy who wrote for it.

Edit: Also, this conversation is kind of dumb.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 18:35

Jhet: Jun 3, 2013

Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:

Ok I think you are not operating with the same set of concepts I am and I don't believe that we can communicate effectively.

"I think that the ideas presented were difficult to see through the cultural significance of this name" has not a loving thing to do with marketing.

"I didn't like this aspect of a previous version of the game" is not an attack on the game, and the mere idea that games are things that require attacking or defending is insane to me. You do know you can criticize things without hating them and that you can like things while still acknowledging that they have flaws, right?

My whole problem with the 1e core is the presentation, which suggests that Atlantis specifically is extremely important to the game, as an in character element that is a fundamental part of the game's setting and themes. At no point does the core imply any sort of "gonzo" take on the setting, it takes the entire thing extremely seriously in a very straightforward, frankly boring way.

My impression from reading the core book is: Mages are the heirs to the power and traditions of ancient Atlantis, a place of great magic and enlightenment. This wisdom was left behind by dragons, from whom we learned to access supernal reality from which we draw magic powers. Atlantis fell because when the mages tried to reach the supernal realms, the Exarchs betrayed the others in pursuit of their own power. You, the protagonist, are trying to recover the power of ancient Atlantis.

The impression I have of mage now is completely different, and frankly I forgot Atlantis was a setting element at all until one of the guys in my group brought it up when we were deciding what to play. Now it goes something like "The world we know is a shadow of true reality, and we are prevented from reaching that higher truth by the Exarchs and their Lie. As a mage, you have an awareness of this and can fight the Lie and aspire to reach Supernal Truth, which you do by solving mysteries and doing awesome poo poo."

I'm right there with you. And there's nothing stopping anyone from going the other way and making Atlantis a very important part of their setting. But it doesn't fit in the version of the game I'm running, which is a version of the way you've put it in your last sentence.

I also don't buy the suggestion that not using Atlantis cheapens the game one way or the other for everyone, although it might for some. The price of the book is the same for all of us. Somehow, people can manage to have fun with this game while having different opinions and weights of meaning that they get while reading it. Not sharing the same meaning is what makes discussions happen, and why everyone's game isn't the same. But at the end, it's a game, and I'm definitely going to use the parts that fit the game I end up running, not the ones that the writers attach to the system of magic. I don't need to divorce the system and the setting completely, but I do need something malleable so that I can use it for my version of fun.

This is not much different then when there were pages of discussion on why the 1e system of Wisdom was not useful for everyone, even though there were good reasons in the setting for it to be that way. So at least there's precedent for it.

e: @Axelgear I too enjoyed it for Indiana Jones type games, but that's just one sort of game I end up playing/running.

Jhet fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 18:58

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

There needs to be a word for this kind of story. Ethnogenesis is close but not quite it; a story that a people use to explain and define themselves; to say "This is who we are and what we believe". Atlantis is to the Awakened what foundational myths are to cities or religions or peoples; they're stories that say "This is who we are and why we do what we do".

As a new topic suggestion: Familiars. What kind of spirit are they usually for your character and how do they use them?

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:27

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

Axelgear posted:

As a new topic suggestion: Familiars. What kind of spirit are they usually for your character and how do they use them?

I've only had a familiar in a game once, and it was a Forces elemental. I used it primarily as a mana battery and to start fires.

Question on the same topic: are familiars ever worth it? Because I've always felt I have way better things to burn 3 merit dots on than "1-2 mana sometimes plus nebulous edge-case situational uses."

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:49

Spector29: Nov 28, 2016

quote:

Abigail Stone was a wonderfully insightful girl. She had the knack of seeing what wasn�t there; connections. It is what made her very good at her job as a Private Detective, where others saw a clean apartment; she could see that it was meticulously kept up because of a secret. She could search the spotless place and find one smudge to the perfect image, and that is when she would hunt.

From a young age, Abigail had been exceptionally smart compared to most of her peers; this was most likely due to her father�s strict upbringing in that he allowed for minimal error in her work. She would have to do it again with even a single mistake, which brought out her perfection in spotting the smallest of abstract errors.

In Elementary school, Abigail underwent a psych evaluation to see if she had been abused at home or at school; everyone in her grade had to. Thanks to her father�s teachings, her scores were even more abnormal than those who were abused. Her scores were extraordinarily unremarkable. Out of everyone in the class, she stood out the most, even though her scores were perfect with normalcy. The ones who found this most abnormal, were her teachers, who knew that Abigail acted completely different now, then when it was just her and her friends.
When out on the playground, Abigail would often play hide and seek with all the other children from her grade; she always volunteered to be �it� first. After only a few moments of studying the ground where everyone had started, she looked up from the counting place, most of the times with a smile. She then ran, quickly and efficiently, to each of the students and where they were hidden. Even the students who had the most clever of spots, would be found only minutes after the game had begun, even if they were the last to be found.

More and more, as they played the teachers noticed that Abigail was getting better, faster even, at finding the children. They never used the same spots and even increased the size of the playing field to include inside the schoolhouse; nothing changed. It was as if Abigail could put herself into the minds of the other children, able to assess where they would go. Eventually, the children tired from hiding from the unstoppable monster-girl, and made her hide; if only they knew what they were about to get into.

Even more than finding people, Abigail had a talent that the other kids just simply didn�t understand; hiding. In her home, her father and her would play hide and seek, as the children played on the playground, but with a twist. If Abigail was caught, she would undergo �treatment� from her father. It wasn�t torture, or abuse of the physical nature, but her father would make her find items that have been hidden around the house before she could do anything else. Most of the times, her father would not give her an exact name for the item she was looking for, only a vague description, which continued getting more and more vague as she kept losing to her father.

Compared to her father, the children were quite easy to fool in her hiding spots. She would most always choose a place that cast an obscure shadow which could hide her in plain sight, or a place high and dark. Not even the teachers could find her most times, and if they did, it was by accident. All this is what made it more abnormal for her tests to be normal, and the teachers told the �doctors� about all of it. This peaked their interest.

After her evaluation, the doctors had torn her from her home, as to study her further. For one year of her life, she was away from her strict father and loving mother. Day in and day out they would hook her up to machines, to watch her repeat the astounding normal results which rarely ever happen.

Of many the things they considered with how she was so normal, they suspected brain-washing from her father, who was a detective for the city police. They had assumed he was trying out torturous interrogation techniques on his daughter to make her respond the way they wanted to, they were wrong.

Near the end of her year in the facility, the questions started taking a turn for the weird. They were asking Abigail about things she never expected, like ghosts, or things being not the way they should be. The questions threw her off, she reacted. Finally, the doctors all rejoices as they knew cracking her would soon be at hand. And then the lights went out.

The sound of water hitting the floor erupted all around Abigail, she couldn�t see anything though. The smells didn�t match the sounds, she heard water, but smelt something like iron. And then, the sounds of large heavy sacks hitting the water on the floor started, but slowly increasing in number as the buckets of water kept splashing onto the ground. Her restraints were freed by something, although she felt nothing loosen them. At last, a bang erupts and the sound of a small metal object hits dry floor, and then the lights came back.

Blinding at first, Abigail had to squint to let her eyes adjust; when they did, she almost let out the most terrifying of screams, but something held it back. What she thought was water all over the floor, was really blood! The bodies of all of the doctors were around her, looking in a very gruesome state. Their stomachs were blown open, almost like a toad with a firecracker inside. She searched to try and find a reason for the madness, and found one person standing in the middle of the blood, holding a gun and dressed in all black with a black overcoat; her father.
Her senses were no longer right, she wept for joy and seeing her father, but also out of terror for what was around her. She heard her father mumble something about a �Mayfly� or something, but she couldn�t be sure. Her father now crouched near some of the dead bodies and the blood on the ground seemed to ripple almost, then return to the bodies. The stomachs would repair themselves almost, but a wound in their chest would appear, leaking the blood that had just been put back. He did this for all of the bodies. It was at this point she stood from her seat, and noticed a hempen sack lying in the center of the room, she desperately wanted to know, but was unsure of what was about to happen to her.

Once finished with the bodies, her father went to the sack, and pulled out a smaller corpse, which made Abigail almost vomit from the smell. Her father strapped the body into the chair where she sat, and then the body began to change. The decaying skin returned color, the hair turned black like her own, the entire body started to look as if though Abigail were looking into a mirror! It wasn�t until the end that her father pulled back up the pistol, and right in front of her eyes, shot the life-like corpse in the head. Under normal circumstances, the sight would have disheartened Abigail fully to the point of a break down, but she didn�t even notice.

Her gaze was instead pulled to the gun her father held. Having helped him clean many pistols, taking them apart, and returning them to their original state, Abigail was certain the gun her father held now was no more than a toy! The pistol had no place to insert a clip for ammo, and no revolver clip to reload either! It was flush along the side completely. The top, which should normally jolt back when fired, stayed completely motionless. The part of the gun that unnerved her the most, was the trigger, or lack thereof as it didn�t have one! Something clicked in her mind at that point as it looked as though some, smoke like essence came out of the bodies on the ground, and flowed into the pistol.

Her father looked at her and then back to the gun; quickly he put it away, as if to hide it from her eyes. He picked her up and whispered to himself �She isn�t ready yet to be awoken.� This statement confused Abigail as she thought she was already awake! Was she sleeping and this was a dream? Before she knew it though, she had indeed fallen asleep due to the stress on her psyche. When she awoke, she was lying in her bed in normal clothes, her blood stained rags from the testing facility were gone. Her father and mother walked into the room and she jumped back, against the wall, frightened of her father now. With a low tone, her father calmly speaks, �Have the nightmares returned? Was it the same one or different this time?�

The normal demeanor of her father and mother shocked her almost, but quickly she became on edge again, that is, until she thought about it and talked with her mother about it. To her, she had been taken from the facility only hours prior, but to her mother, it was a year ago entirely! Not only that, but she was released normally and the doctors constantly call to check up as if they hadn�t been murdered to her! She spoke with her mother about what she remembers, and her father being a murderer, when her mother explains that it was all in her head. It was a vivid reimagining of the night her father had to shoot a suspect carrying a bomb, causing it to blow up and kill a few bystanders nearby, and Abigail was in the front of the patrol car watching the whole thing! It was an accident that she can�t come to terms with and thinks her father as a murderer for it. This whole concept takes a while for Abigail to cope with, but after a few weeks, comes to accept it, and the nightmares go away.

Shortly after her accepting things, her family moves to the other side of the country to hopefully give her father another shot at being a detective, as he was terminated after the incident. For four years, nothing strange happens, and her father continues to hone in and teach her certain skills that he has obtained as a detective. Although, on her sixteenth birthday, he and her mother just vanish. Nothing left of them, or their possessions, as if they had never really been there. The only evidence that would even give away that they existed, was a gift left on Abigail�s bedside table, with a note stating �From Mom and Dad�.

Abigail ran all over the house, searching, tears streaming down her face. She ran through the town, asking neighbors who now knew nothing of her or her parents. She ran to the police station and there she was met with similar looks of unfamiliarity. Nothing. No one remembered her at all, let alone her parents who she didn�t even have a photo of! She sprinted home, hoping that this was all a terrible nightmare, but alas, she was wrong.

She sat in her bed for nearly two whole days, weeping, before she could even bring herself to even look at the present her parents had left her; it was still sitting unopened on her table. She edged herself onto the side of her mattress where she grabbed the present, and slowly placed it upon her lap. Slowly and carefully, she unwrapped the gift, making sure not to rip a single thing as if every spec of paper was a clue now about her parents. Once opened, she looked inside and her heart sank five layers instantly.

Inside the box was a wallet, a note, and the gun. The Gun! The one from her nightmare, which she now believed was just a figment of her imagination. First, she pulled out the wallet, heavily stuffed with cash. She opened it to reveal an ID, with her face, but not her name. The Name on the ID read Abigail Stone. Also inside the wallet was a black card, and the cash of course.

The next object she pulled out was the note:

Dear XXXXX,
I know you must be wondering where I have gone, but I cannot tell you. All you need to know is I have been found by people who are trying to find you. They tried to awaken you before you were ready, but I had to stop them. I left to lure them away from you, to allow you to awaken by yourself and start a life free of their control. I left you a wallet, and a card tied to an account that I have been saving for you, you should not need much.
I am sorry.
Dad

Quickly, she threw the note back into the box, tears now streaming faster and harder from her face. She was more confused now than ever. Finally, she calmed herself down enough as to reach into the box and pull out the toy-looking pistol from the box. As she inspected it, she noticed that there was no way this could ever fire a bullet. She felt it ever so gently in her hands until she found a seam she could work with. She took out some tools of her own and started to slowly take apart the toy. With each peace off, the more she became convinced that there was no way this could have all these parts stuffed into it. Once fully apart, she looked at a small etching inside the casing where the firing spring would be. Closer she inched to it, trying to make out the scratches. Finally she stopped after being able to decipher what it was; her father�s name. Instantly, the memories exploded back into her mind of that night, seeing everything around her, the small life like puffs of smoke coming from the bodies, the gun and its miraculous shooting.

She looked down to the scratches again as everything slowly started to click inside herself, just as the scratches in the gun started to change. Screech, Sckkk, Ssss. The scratching went on for a moment, but as soon as it was finished, Abigail could read everything much easier now; Abigail Stone. It was the same name that was on the ID! But who was this person! Just as she asked herself these things, puffs of smoke started to shoot out from where the clip would normally be, although now, she could see faces inside the puffs. One after another they shot out and escaped from the house by going through the ceiling or wall. Finally, the last puff shot out, but didn�t escape, instead it slowly morphed, taking a shape. Ever so slowly it started to resemble a human shape. Abigail gasped as before her, now stood her mother, in all the translucent, smokey, demeanor that she could have as something without a body.

�Abigail, I need you to shoot me with that gun, if you do not, I cannot help you, hurry!�

Confused, Abigail looked to the dismantled gun as the apparition of her mother began to slowly dissipitate. Quickly she burrowed down and tried to force the gun together, but the parts wouldn�t fit! More and more her mother�s appearance was fading. In a fit of despair, Abigail grabbed up the still apart frame by the handle and pointed it at the image of her mother, refusing to let her leave again without trying something! In her mind, Abigail screamed for the gun to fire!

Just then, the parts on the table sprang to life and shot towards the gun, putting itself back together, although the look was off from her father gun, this one now had a trigger! Abigail squeezed the trigger and felt a little of herself sting as a bullet erupted out and pierced her mother. The apparition smiled as it turned back into smoke and was pulled back into the pistol. Abigail dropped the pistol out of fear, but she knew deep down what had just happened. In her ear, she could now hear her mother�s voice, talking to her about how her real name is Abigail Stone and how her mother had died fourteen years ago but kept there to help her father. And now, it was her mother�s turn to help Abigail.

Abigail found herself in Stygia, where her mother now stood fully beside her. In front of her was a plate, full of coins. Her mother pushed her forward, motioning for her pocket. As she reached in, she pulled out a heavy coin, made of lead. As her mother instructed, she dropped the coin into the plate. The entire scenery morphed to Abigail as she was transported almost instantly to another place, where a large book now rests before her, a quill to the side with a small jar of ink. A small dip of ink onto the quill and then with a quick slash, she signs something into the book; Abigail Stone.

Abigail then left the town and roamed for a while, before settling in in a Private Eye agency as a temp worker before getting to finally prove herself in the field, becoming a detective herself.
In the age of Facebook, Tinder, and Snapchat, old fashioned PI�s were dying out, even the really good ones. The only reason Abigail was able to stay in this industry is because she was scary good at finding people, and secrets. The matter in the places just seemed to talk to her about the secrets she wanted to hear, as well as she inferred with ghosts to find the information as well. While she was exceptionally good at finding secrets, she was equally good at hiding her own; the secrets of another world, and working desperately to hide them from the mundane sleepers who should happen upon them.

How does this look as a background for a Moros?

Also, for the STs who have ran Mage: How do you describe Mage sight? Each Path is supposed to see weird symbolic stuff, so do you take the time to describe what it's like for each Mage who turns on Mage sight, or do you abstract it and explain the information they're able to glean?

Spector29 fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:49

The Unlife Aquatic: Jun 17, 2009; Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Spector29: TBH that reads more Space-focused Mastigos to me.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:08

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

Yawgmoth posted:

I've only had a familiar in a game once, and it was a Forces elemental. I used it primarily as a mana battery and to start fires.

Question on the same topic: are familiars ever worth it? Because I've always felt I have way better things to burn 3 merit dots on than "1-2 mana sometimes plus nebulous edge-case situational uses."

Regular familiars are much better Mana batteries than Supernal ones.

My experience as a player has been that familiars make excellent spies and assistants in topics concerning their dominion and, if more physically imposing, can be excellent guard dogs. A spirit of curiosity is worth its weight in gold to a Mage and spends a lot of time winking suggestively in the direction of their Obsessions.

It really helps if the Mage has Spirit magic and can thus cheaply refuel their ally from the right Resonances. One of my players has a Moros with a Spirit-themed Legacy and his familiar is a spirit of justice and law, manifesting as a German Shepherd. When they were chasing a murderer, the spirit used essence to boost its attributes, kicked in the Speed Numen, and grew in size; turning into a hybrid of a police dog and police car. The Moros then hung onto the neck of his bull-sized companion and rode the thing right the way to the murderer's home.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:16

Jhet: Jun 3, 2013

Yawgmoth posted:

I've only had a familiar in a game once, and it was a Forces elemental. I used it primarily as a mana battery and to start fires.

Question on the same topic: are familiars ever worth it? Because I've always felt I have way better things to burn 3 merit dots on than "1-2 mana sometimes plus nebulous edge-case situational uses."

I have a player using a goetic familiar with an influence of technology (computers/smart phones, etc) to good use. Mostly it's helping make it easier to steal information from people's computers and cell phones. Which is already pretty easy, but even easier now. It's capable of possessing the machines, uses Remote Control as a numina, and Transmission as a numina to send information encrypted or otherwise to the mage.

I've also seen a fire spirit used well by an Acanthus who liked starting things on fire.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:17

Dave Brookshaw: Jun 27, 2012; No Regrets

On Atlantis:

Mage using Atlantis as the common-consensus name for the Time Before has less to do with Plato (although it does, inevitably, have something to do with Plato in a gnostic game) and more to do with Blavatsky and all the other bonkers 19th-century occultists who wrote reams about root races, vimyas, and the secret magical history of the world.

This is a gameline that has Rmohals in it, is what I'm saying.

That kind of thing was shied away from in Ascension apart from the gonzoer aspects of the Sons of Ether and Order of Hermes, so many fans whose only introduction to occult ramblings was... well... Mage: The Ascension saw it and thought "Disney movie!" where the designers, especially Bill Bridges (my predecessor, and I count myself extremely lucky to be following in the shoes of someone as good as Bill "Fading Suns" Bridges) were thinking "Leadbeater!"

Problem was that Mage had a bumpy start, originally being much more like Ascension before the nWoD really started pulling away from cWoD concepts, and the Atlantean backstory was supplied late on. It wouldn't have been nearly as in-your-face in the corebook if it'd been in the setting from the start rather than leavened in late in the game.

Secrets of the Ruined Temple, where Ken Hite goes nuts for a chapter, was very early in Mage's gameline.

But like the Orders, the good thing about a second edition corebook is that you can give setting elements the prominence they're due, knowing how important they turned out to be for the gameline. So away to the Appendices with it!

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:22

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

All the insane baggage of Atlantis - the theosophist race science, the Disney movies, this youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw

- all of that stuff is not a bug, it is a feature. If "Atlantis" was just "City 01" or even "Lost Zarlath" the game would be worse for it. If you just can't get over the very idea of Atlantis being a thing, then you have been successfully trolled... by yourself.

Incidentally, there is an amazing moment in that video from like 6:40 to 8:00, although obviously anyone seeking real enlightenment should watch it the whole way through.

Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 15, 2017

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:29

Brainiac Five: Mar 28, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

When you think about it, one-fifth or so of nMage PCs will be talking to cars by default, as opposed to... one-ninth of oMage PCs? So it's already almost twice as gonzo.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 20:53

The Unlife Aquatic: Jun 17, 2009; Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Brainiac Five posted:

When you think about it, one-fifth or so of nMage PCs will be talking to cars by default, as opposed to... one-ninth of oMage PCs? So it's already almost twice as gonzo.

I wrote a Moros car mechanic whose familiar lived in her car - a 1970 Dodge Challenger. A spirit of combustion and power. It was one hell of a turbo.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 21:33

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

Ferrinus posted:

All the insane baggage of Atlantis - the theosophist race science, the Disney movies, this youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw

- all of that stuff is not a bug, it is a feature. If "Atlantis" was just "City 01" or even "Lost Zarlath" the game would be worse for it. If you just can't get over the very idea of Atlantis being a thing, then you have been successfully trolled... by yourself.

Incidentally, there is an amazing moment in that video from like 6:40 to 8:00, although obviously anyone seeking real enlightenment should watch it the whole way through.

I was waiting to see when someone would bring up Spirit Science. I'm genuinely sad that his later stuff started to tone down the sheer levels of batshit crazy that the Human History Movie contains ("Joseph and Mary were real people who were actually immortal, millennia-old Egyptians who created Jesus via astral sex", "Jews are time-travelers who came back in time because they're really good at math but bad at emotions", "Ra guided humanity from the shadows for eons, until he decided to just pass all his wisdom on to some random Russian dude", etc.) to the far more tepid and dull levels of the average New Ager.

The one time we do get anything like that, it's a two minute video where he claims the Moon is actually a giant machine built for nefarious and unknown purposes. The rest of the time, it's "Crystals can cure your cancer!" and the other dangerous and dull tripe you can find in any occult bookstore.

This sort of stuff is my favourite kind of magical weirdness. The very first Atlantis-themed adventure I ran for any of my games was inspired by the whole "PEOPLE WERE REALLY HUGE IN THE PAST" bit he did, and involved my players being tasked with finding the lost monastery of Tibetan giants.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 23:01

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

I really like the part where the Lucifer Project where you sever yourself from all other life and transform into the ultimate psychogamer sociopath bent on universal domination and the subjugation of all thinking beings is just completely natural and okay and plenty of people do it really so don't judge.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 23:05

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

Hey man, universal consciousness is for grannies!

# ? Feb 15, 2017 23:12

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Apart from the name Atlantis, it would be really weird for a game where literally every wizard has up to 50 easily commodified buckets of the exact same powers that work the exact same way to suggest that there isn't some common ancestor.

Way more people drop mage going over the initial 6 of 50 bucket spell list they have to be familiar with than get spooked by the Ancient Alien-sounding backstory.

Gerund fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 16, 2017

# ? Feb 16, 2017 03:39

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Spector29 posted:

How does this look as a background for a Moros?

Also, for the STs who have ran Mage: How do you describe Mage sight? Each Path is supposed to see weird symbolic stuff, so do you take the time to describe what it's like for each Mage who turns on Mage sight, or do you abstract it and explain the information they're able to glean?

As just Some Dude this looks pretty good but kind of over-wrought in the writing style. (Do you really need all those! exclamation! points!?). It seems mostly well written and seems in flavor.

Larger question for the thread : so my group straight up will not play Mage basta. Is 2e worth it just to thumb through and dream, or will it just make me sadder for never getting to bring it to the table?

Why do my players not want to he wizards? How???

# ? Feb 16, 2017 04:04

The Sin of Onan: Oct 11, 2012; And below,
watched by eyes of steel
we dreamt

Xiahou Dun posted:

As just Some Dude this looks pretty good but kind of over-wrought in the writing style. (Do you really need all those! exclamation! points!?). It seems mostly well written and seems in flavor.

Larger question for the thread : so my group straight up will not play Mage basta. Is 2e worth it just to thumb through and dream, or will it just make me sadder for never getting to bring it to the table?

Why do my players not want to he wizards? How???

a) Your group has poo poo taste and I am sorry, and b) gently caress yeah, it's a pretty cool book to thumb through, the ideas are really neat, and also you're giving Onyx Path more money for M:tAw, which hopefully means more M:tAw content in the future. So do it.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 04:16

hangedman1984: Jul 25, 2012

Xiahou Dun posted:

As just Some Dude this looks pretty good but kind of over-wrought in the writing style. (Do you really need all those! exclamation! points!?). It seems mostly well written and seems in flavor.

Larger question for the thread : so my group straight up will not play Mage basta. Is 2e worth it just to thumb through and dream, or will it just make me sadder for never getting to bring it to the table?

Why do my players not want to he wizards? How???

Are you the GM or a player? I would love to play mage but don't feel confident in my GM'ing abilities to run it.
Also in my group historically we played whatever someone was actually willing to run.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 04:26

Spector29: Nov 28, 2016

hangedman1984 posted:

Are you the GM or a player? I would love to play mage but don't feel confident in my GM'ing abilities to run it.
Also in my group historically we played whatever someone was actually willing to run.

If you want to run the game, you'll find many players online.

Dunno if this is the thread for it, but I'd be down to play as well.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 04:37

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

Changeling: The Dorm.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 04:38

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

No mention of how the fair folk simultaneously love and hate the contract law students for being able to treat with them equally when it comes to crafting ornate pacts filled with treacherous conditions and sinister penalties for breach, 0/10.

EDIT: "Never sign anything anyone gives you, not until the contract law lecturer reads it for you."

# ? Feb 16, 2017 05:42

Axelgear: Oct 13, 2011; If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. It happens pretty often and I will try to change my opinion if I'm presented with evidence.

hangedman1984 posted:

I would love to play mage but don't feel confident in my GM'ing abilities to run it.

As someone who has GM'd Mage for years: The only way to get over that is to do it, gently caress up, and keep trying.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 06:23

Soonmot: Dec 19, 2002; Entrapta fucking loves robots; Grimey Drawer

hangedman1984 posted:

Are you the GM or a player? I would love to play mage but don't feel confident in my GM'ing abilities to run it.
Also in my group historically we played whatever someone was actually willing to run.

I am so down for a mage game.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 06:55

The Unlife Aquatic: Jun 17, 2009; Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

hangedman1984 posted:

Are you the GM or a player? I would love to play mage but don't feel confident in my GM'ing abilities to run it.
Also in my group historically we played whatever someone was actually willing to run.

As someone who started GMing Mage about six months ago after a decade of experience with Shadowrun: I honestly didn't find it super hard to write for. The biggest problem tends to be Fate/Time magic tbh.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 07:05

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Oh hey the Vampire: Prelude app is out, let's take a look and

quote:

The classic roleplaying game Vampire: The Masquerade returns to digital games with a Prelude of things to come. Experience a brand new interactive fiction, written and illustrated by award- winning author Zak Sabbath and Sarah Horrocks.

Ffffffffffffffffff

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:39

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Kurieg posted:

Oh hey the Vampire: Prelude app is out, let's take a look and

Ffffffffffffffffff

OH COME THE gently caress ON

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:43

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Who is Zak Sabbath? I'm going to guess by the reaction this is not good.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:46

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

I guess it makes sense that Edgelord Dracula would recruit Zak to write for him as they're both trapped in the 90s.

Night10194 posted:

Who is Zak Sabbath? I'm going to guess by the reaction this is not good.

Crossposting from the 5e thread.

quote:

When 5e was coming out, they sought out the consultation of a man named Zak S. Zak S is a jerk who has managed to get banned from every RPG focused internet forum and has a major persecution complex because of it. He is known to love to argue and to attack people on social media. He is a giant pissbaby who can make Donald Trump seem well tempered, to put it mildly. But, for some reason, Mearls liked his blog so he asked him for playtesting advice.

Some forum members wanted to tell Mearls that pissbaby is bad and they didn't want pissbaby to be credited as a consultant alongside industry greats.

Pissbaby Whinypants response was to doxx a trans women who was a member of this forum and harass her until she went into hiding out of fear. Death threats, insults, etc., etc. The all too common routine uses by internet losers that has a very real effect on people but law enforcement does nothing to stop.

Naturally, a lot of forum users were pissed and tried to tell Mearls that this happened, it was a big controversy, and Mearls sided with Zak S. This made a lot of people think (rightfully so) that Mearls is a Pissbaby Neonazi Loser too.

He has a habit of googling his name or searching for discussions where he's mentioned and summoning his followers to defend him, occasionally showing up in person.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Oh! I never knew his full name was Sabbath.

WELL

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:53

Cool Dad: Jun 15, 2007; It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

I mean all I know is that his name is Zak Sabbath, but really that's enough..

The Mage one is out too. Written by Karin Tidbeck, apparently, who I'm also not familiar with.

Cool Dad fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Feb 16, 2017

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:55

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

Kurieg posted:

He has a habit of googling his name or searching for discussions where he's mentioned and summoning his followers to defend him, occasionally showing up in person.

Derek Smart, Derek Smart, Derek Smart!

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:55

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 01:01

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Night10194 posted:

Oh! I never knew his full name was Sabbath.

WELL

It's not, it's Smith.

He's also a porn star and his gently caress name is Zak Sabbath.

# ? Feb 16, 2017 14:56

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