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If I had to guess EDG takes it all after a final of EDG vs UoL.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:15
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i'm saying uol takes all. also i kind of hope G2 keeps failing internationally because it's funny
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Feb 15, 2017 16:35
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Lovechop posted:
M19 better take it all.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:40
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rabidsquid posted:this buff to specifically henkman goes too far lol
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Feb 15, 2017 17:04
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wodin posted:I know the whole ADC in 2017 meme, but I sort of wish it would come back. These games with 4-5 Marksman in them are miserable to watch as both teams are completely terrified to engage even with bullshit-level tank tops because the ADCs do absurd damage and can just kite backwards. The real problem is edge of night, I think it's relatively balanced on champs that want to go in but if it's used defensively from 500+ range it just nullifies engage.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:16
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AD items probably need to be separated into ranged and melee because nothing they've tried has worked and at this point i dont have any faith in riot finding a more elegant solution
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Feb 15, 2017 17:22
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Radical posted:AD items probably need to be separated into ranged and melee because nothing they've tried has worked and at this point i dont have any faith in riot finding a more elegant solution Would it help to make lethality scale differently for ranged vs. melee? Like the stat has half the effect on a ranged champion, or something. That would avoid the hamfistedness of going through and marking everything melee.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:49
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JerryLee posted:Would it help to make lethality scale differently for ranged vs. melee? Like the stat has half the effect on a ranged champion, or something. That would avoid the hamfistedness of going through and marking everything melee. Conversely, you could just say armor is more effective against ranged auto attacks than it currently is. This is basically an easier explanation of the same thing.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:54
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I think the idea of making something as basic as stats work differently between different champs is the least elegant and most hamfisted solution you could actually have. Let's not forget that for most people this is not a hardcore competitive game, minutiae like that is unneeded complexity. The melee only solution at least is immediately obvious to players.Sexpansion posted:Conversely, you could just say armor is more effective against ranged auto attacks than it currently is. This is basically an easier explanation of the same thing. Although this could work.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:59
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JerryLee posted:Would it help to make lethality scale differently for ranged vs. melee? Like the stat has half the effect on a ranged champion, or something. That would avoid the hamfistedness of going through and marking everything melee. 1. Lethality builds still worth it for ADCs? Nothing changes. 2. Lethality builds no longer worth it? You have effectively made them melee-only without being transparent or efficient about it.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:59
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Kashuno posted:I think the idea of making something as basic as stats work differently between different champs is the least elegant and most hamfisted solution you could actually have. Let's not forget that for most people this is not a hardcore competitive game, minutiae like that is unneeded complexity. The melee only solution at least is immediately obvious to players. yeah, this is my general feeling on changing underlying statistics. unless you read the patch notes it isn't entirely obvious that a lethality build on jhin or lucian is less effective, and changing the tooltip when you're a ranged champ to say LESS EFFECTIVE ON RANGED might as well read MELEE ONLY. in general making items for ranged/melee or even role specific (tank only, mage only, etc.) would probably not work because of the perceived loss of complexity by the community. in reality because riot already changes things the second an item is being built by an offrole (ice fist, gage, etc.) they're effectively only for the role themselves. a lot of balance issues arise because of riot trying to maintain a superficial complexity while actually being able to restrict items to roles would allow them to increase the actual complexity of the game a lot more without worrying about how hosed up ekko buying the item would be. i think if riot were to sit down and design LOL2 today i think it would look a lot like that, and their internal designations for champions would be a core part of the design instead of a loose way of describing a champion.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:11
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JerryLee posted:Would it help to make lethality scale differently for ranged vs. melee? Like the stat has half the effect on a ranged champion, or something. That would avoid the hamfistedness of going through and marking everything melee. Nah, this stuff is all mostly bad. The problem is with some ranged AD casters having ridiculous poke right now (Varus, Jhin) and getting too much safety while building those items. If you want to hit the poke you can hit their abilities, this isn't a generic ADC problem. If you want to hit the survivability then making edge of night melee only would do the trick. Marksmen are pretty much always op when they get too much survivability. It's not really tank since they don't tank shots but the top ADCs went from jump carries like Trist and Corki that could get out of danger to ranged bruisers that could actually tank with Sterak's and Cleaver to ultra poke champs that can sit 1000 range behind their front line and can't be CC'd.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:32
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:This substitutes extra math for simplicity though, and creates the following situation: I'm curious what you think is wrong with it being "still worth it". Like, I have no issue if lethality items are a viable alternative to (say) BF items for an ADC. In fact, I would say that's better for the game. The issue, unless I've misunderstood something, is just that they are too effective for ranged overall, relative to melee. You can solve that by directly changing the numbers to bring them in line. Sexpansion posted:Conversely, you could just say armor is more effective against ranged auto attacks than it currently is. This is basically an easier explanation of the same thing. This would work too.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:34
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JerryLee posted:I'm curious what you think is wrong with it being "still worth it". Like, I have no issue if lethality items are a viable alternative to (say) BF items for an ADC. In fact, I would say that's better for the game. The issue, unless I've misunderstood something, is just that they are too effective for ranged overall, relative to melee. You can solve that by directly changing the numbers to bring them in line.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:49
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Do you honestly believe that "changing the numbers to bring them in line" won't result in one of the two outcomes I've outlined? But the current problem is not, per se, that item X is "worth it" for an ADC, but that it's too worth it, if you will. Right? I mean, I've been assuming that the problem is not that people are clutching their pearls over the sheer affront of seeing an ADC build an item intended for an assassin, but because it's actually leading to bad gameplay as a practical consequence.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:04
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JerryLee posted:But the current problem is not, per se, that item X is "worth it" for an ADC, but that it's too worth it, if you will. Right? The problem is that the items are extremely good for ADCs, but not good enough to get played on the champs they were designed for or even to get those champs to see play.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:07
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Khazix, rengar, zed, and jayce have seen plenty of pro play and build those items
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Feb 15, 2017 19:08
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henkman posted:Khazix, rengar, zed, and jayce have seen plenty of pro play and build those items I only watch LCK and I'm a bit behind so I may be missing some. No Zed over here and Jayce isn't an assassin, but fair on Kha and Rengar
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Feb 15, 2017 19:11
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Kha and Rengar are also competing against, what, maybe-Rek'Sai or Rumble if ya nasty for a jungle spot at this point? Given that top lane is for the most part the same wasteland of wet noodle fights it always is, tanky junglers aren't the seasonal hotness they once were. Plus Kha is seeing play in part because post-6 he has absolutely absurd dragon control, itemization isn't going to do much about that so long as he has a huge single-target nuke on an effectively nonexistent cooldown.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:15
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Maybe I can rephrase myself more clearly: If the problem is ADCs being able to build lethality as a stat (and have it be a non-comedy option), or having access to an item with Edge of Night's active, or what have you--if those are the actual problems, then sure, make the items melee-only. But if, as I've been led to believe, the actual problem is lethality being too valuable point-for-point for ranged, and/or (some?) assassins being underpowered, address those issues specifically.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:22
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JerryLee posted:Maybe I can rephrase myself more clearly: That's not the issue The issue is that ADC as a role cannot exist in the current meta because going into 600 range of the enemy team except for cleanup is suicide Which is why you get the reign of initiation ADCs spamming poke skills from a billion miles away and then ulting for a 'go time' button instead of seeing Vayne or Lucian or Tristana or whoever (with the occasional spicy ADC MF pick because Bullet Time has something like two and a half times the range of her autos). It has nothing to do with lethality being OP and everything to do with trying to actually autoattack as the Autoattack Damage Carries being suboptimal. Math fixes solve nothing, the issue is with making autoing (and thus incurring the risk of getting dogpiled by the enemy team) worth your time.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:31
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this guy is my fav NA player https://twitter.com/akaadian/status/831673619637899264
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Feb 15, 2017 19:34
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No wonder Akaadian is a top tier Rengar, he's super good at using Savagery
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Feb 15, 2017 19:42
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Transient People posted:No wonder Akaadian is a top tier Rengar, he's super good at using Savagery looool
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Feb 15, 2017 19:57
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Lovechop posted:this guy is my fav NA player
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Feb 15, 2017 20:00
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Transient People posted:That's not the issue
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Feb 15, 2017 20:09
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JerryLee posted:Well, if that's the problem then marking items melee-only wouldn't fix it either (not that you personally are claiming it would) It's kind of a horrible clusterfucky disaster with no easy fixes beyond massively amping the reward for autos (AND ONLY AUTOS, like IE to 300% crit damage or something), giving ADCs much better escape tools so they can deal with that annoying irelia jumping on them (nuBork is meant to help with this some), and toning down divers and tanks a bit. I think if Edge of Night was a zeal item you'd actually see the class in a much healthier shape in general - a spellshield probably allows somebody like Lucian or Tristana to get in and do their thing.
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Feb 15, 2017 20:33
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Lol that Akaadian tweet. I am definitely excited for the na junglers doing so well. I am worried though that guys like Moon/Akaadian/Contractz will fall off if the jungler meta switches to utility or tank. Nobody other than Sven seems to play Ivern in NA or atleast decently. Dardoch atleast has a very good Reksai and use to play tank Gragas/Olaf. Could see Xmithie/Sven/Dardoch out performing them whenever the meta changes.
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Feb 15, 2017 22:10
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Ulio posted:Lol that Akaadian tweet. I am definitely excited for the na junglers doing so well. I am worried though that guys like Moon/Akaadian/Contractz will fall off if the jungler meta switches to utility or tank. Nobody other than Sven seems to play Ivern in NA or atleast decently. Dardoch atleast has a very good Reksai and use to play tank Gragas/Olaf. I thought Contractz looked okay on Ivern and his game seems a lot less predicated on aggressive play than Akaadian/Moon, so I feel like he'd make the transition to a tank jungler meta alright. Of course he has the advantage of having the best team around him.
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Feb 15, 2017 23:44
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I made a comp of the 10 best outplays of last week's NA LCS, check it out  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qENy7yiivLE I wanna do LCK too, just haven't gotten around to it.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:48
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doinb: gently caress u im playing tank leblanc
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Feb 16, 2017 10:39
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this is the greatest team comp ive seen in my entire life, its obvious that zhonyas/ibg rush leblanc is the meta
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Feb 16, 2017 10:49
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maokai is the dumbest champion in the game
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Feb 16, 2017 11:37
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nb was gonna win anyways because they got to play blue side twice but qg hosed up their pick ban terribly and banned rengar while letting nb draft camille
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Feb 16, 2017 12:05
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Transient People posted:It's kind of a horrible clusterfucky disaster with no easy fixes beyond massively amping the reward for autos (AND ONLY AUTOS, like IE to 300% crit damage or something), giving ADCs much better escape tools so they can deal with that annoying irelia jumping on them (nuBork is meant to help with this some), and toning down divers and tanks a bit. I think if Edge of Night was a zeal item you'd actually see the class in a much healthier shape in general - a spellshield probably allows somebody like Lucian or Tristana to get in and do their thing. The real problem with ADCs right now is obviously that they only become relevant with armor pen items, when said items are strong. It's clear that crit builds, which should be the bread and butter for ADCs, are underpowered at the moment. Buffing the AD on Infinity Edge and reducing the cost on it and on every Zeal item would be a good start. They'd have to nerf Yasuo at the same time, but meh.
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Feb 16, 2017 12:46
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rabidsquid posted:maokai is the dumbest champion in the game I mean unironically yeah.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:42
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ROX Tigers should've just renamed after the 2016 squad disbanded. These five fools aren't worthy of the name made famous by Peanut, Smeb and co.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:51
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The Mash posted:The real problem with ADCs right now is obviously that they only become relevant with armor pen items, when said items are strong. It's clear that crit builds, which should be the bread and butter for ADCs, are underpowered at the moment.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:36
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Do you guys think that part of the ADC issue has to do with the prevalence of mages botlane with "standard" support picks showing up less, or do those supports show up less specifically because ADCs are so weak in lane and there needs to be some power down there to make ganks happen?
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Feb 16, 2017 16:42
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I think its just kind of cause a mage support reduces a tank support from someone who can set up a kill to someone who is purely reactive and only there for the peel? Also late game a mage support can be an actual threat that needs to be treated with a bit more respect than a tank who you can kind of ignore once they've blown their cooldowns
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Feb 16, 2017 16:52
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