Lets All Play Battletech and rewrite Inner Sphere history

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Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

I wanna say... Cloud Cobra?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:30

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# ? May 12, 2024 20:33

Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

Oh man, somehow I accidentally unbookmarked this thread and didn't realize it for the last couple weeks. I guess I just assumed PTN was taking a break or something :shobon:

Good thing I fixed my mistake just in time for the return of STEINER RULES!

# ? Feb 13, 2017 15:34

terrenblade: Oct 29, 2012

PoptartsNinja posted:

It's not him. These aren't exactly Steel Viper colors.

The King Cobra inherited the Battle Cobra's extended torso twist quirk.

So pushing him into manure is an optional objective then.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 19:30

Ice Fist: Jun 20, 2012; ^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

Is a Clan mace half the weight for the same damage or something compared to similar inner sphere maces?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 19:53

Scintilla: Aug 24, 2010; I BEAT HIGHFORT
and all I got was this
jackass monkey

Ice Fist posted:

Is a Clan mace half the weight for the same damage or something compared to similar inner sphere maces?

It's compact enough to be able to fit on a 100-tonner like the King Cobra.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:07

paragon1: Nov 22, 2010; FULL COMMUNISM NOW

Actually, I was wondering, how much tonnage do melee weapons normally take up?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:11

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

could someone link the last time this fella was in the thread?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:13

Scintilla: Aug 24, 2010; I BEAT HIGHFORT
and all I got was this
jackass monkey

sebmojo posted:

could someone link the last time this fella was in the thread?

If you're talking about the King Cobra, the first and thus far only mission it appeared in was Rise of the Phoenix, starting here. It was piloted by Caesar Steiner, controlled by yours truly and proceeded to develop an insatiable hunger for Marauders.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 20:20

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

PoptartsNinja posted:

It's not him. These aren't exactly Steel Viper colors.

The King Cobra inherited the Battle Cobra's extended torso twist quirk.

I hope that means it can really put its hips into the swing.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 21:14

Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

paragon1 posted:

Actually, I was wondering, how much tonnage do melee weapons normally take up?

Some are fixed weights, but others scale based on the weight of the mech they're mounted on (After all, a sword sized for an Atlas is very different than one sized for a Commando). For a 100 ton Assault they're usually in the 5-10 ton range though.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 21:51

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

Hey, that Phoenix mission reminded me - didn't the Comstar guy claim Carlos is still missing behind enemy lines? Admittedly they sort of half-lost that mission since his mech went down (and the "Red Corsair", ouch) but if they survived I thought they'd have gone home by now? Is Carlos in hiding?

And if we can talk geopolitics for a second, the Snake/Skye alliance thing, what exactly is their plan for dealing with the Lyrans? I mean considering they gutted the Commonwealth and cut it off from any route of recovery aside from Reconquista, this invasion was inevitable. Was their plan ever to conquer the Commonwealth? Are they just going to play defense? The Clans conquered those invasion corridors in the first place to get access to Terra, and now the snakes have that with the proximity of Skye to Earth, were they going to fight the other Clans? Don't really see their goal at the moment.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:34

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

Gwaihir posted:

Some are fixed weights, but others scale based on the weight of the mech they're mounted on (After all, a sword sized for an Atlas is very different than one sized for a Commando). For a 100 ton Assault they're usually in the 5-10 ton range though.

Which melee weapons are fixed weights? I never really bothered to learn the rules for the weird Solaris weapons so I feel like it's probably one of those.

Dolash posted:

Hey, that Phoenix mission reminded me - didn't the Comstar guy claim Carlos is still missing behind enemy lines? Admittedly they sort of half-lost that mission since his mech went down (and the "Red Corsair", ouch) but if they survived I thought they'd have gone home by now? Is Carlos in hiding?

And if we can talk geopolitics for a second, the Snake/Skye alliance thing, what exactly is their plan for dealing with the Lyrans? I mean considering they gutted the Commonwealth and cut it off from any route of recovery aside from Reconquista, this invasion was inevitable. Was their plan ever to conquer the Commonwealth? Are they just going to play defense? The Clans conquered those invasion corridors in the first place to get access to Terra, and now the snakes have that with the proximity of Skye to Earth, were they going to fight the other Clans? Don't really see their goal at the moment.

The Vipers' game isn't to invade and conquer Terra, it's to reestablish a Star League.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:46

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

A 100 ton mace would normally be 10 tons and 10 slots, which is impossible to wield since you need a hand and that comes out to 14 slots in a 12 slot limb.

But the joke is Clantech is 20% lighter and 20% smaller so the Clan Mace is 8 tons and 8 slots. See? I can make Clan jokes too!

So, here's some weird random diversity statistics:

code:

DCMS - 128 different `Mechs available before 3049 - 20.8%
AFFS - 132 different `Mechs available before 3049 - 21.4%
LCAF - 126 different `Mechs available before 3049 - 20.4%
FWLM - 112 different `Mechs available before 3049 - 18.2%
CCAF - 117 different `Mechs available before 3049 - 19.0%

Light - 18.5%       Medium - 29.9%
DCMS - 24 - 18.8%   DCMS - 37 - 28.9%
AFFS - 24 - 18.1%   AFFS - 41 - 31.1%
LCAF - 26 - 20.6%   LCAF - 35 - 27.7%
FWLM - 18 - 16.0%   FWLM - 36 - 32.1%
CCAF - 22 - 18.8%   CCAF - 35 - 29.9%

Heavy - 26%         Assault - 24.1% 
DCMS - 33 - 25.8%   DCMS - 34 - 26.6%
AFFS - 38 - 28.7%   AFFS - 20 - 15.2%
LCAF - 27 - 21.4%   LCAF - 37 - 29.4%
FWLM - 31 - 27.7%   FWLM - 27 - 24.1%
CCAF - 31 - 26.5%   CCAF - 30 - 25.6%

Percentages have been rounded so they may be off by +/- 3% or so

These are the statistics for BattleMech diversity (how many options are available) between the great houses. It doesn't tell us how many `Mechs of each types the Great Houses field, but I feel there's a logical correlation between diversity and numbers: a Great House with a low diversity probably doesn't field very many `Mechs of that weight class. You're free to draw your own conclusions, of course.

Some fun bits to note:

House Davion has the highest `Mech diversity (including some designs shared with them by House Steiner like the Devastator), but has the lowest Assault `Mech diversity. This suggests they field far fewer assault `Mechs than any other Great House before 3050. House Davion's assault `Mech diversity is so bad that the Great House with the second worst diversity (the Free Worlds League) is actually exactly at the statistical average of Assault `Mechs / Total Mech Diversity. It stands to reason then that Assault `Mechs fighting other Assault `Mechs is indeed a big deal--to the AFFS (which Daniel Allard and Andrew Redburn, the two pilots who made a big deal about the duel between Arden Sortek's Victor and a House Kurita Awesome, were both trained by). The LCAF, DCMS, and CCAF don't give a poo poo and if House Marik cares they're still meeting a statistical average and probably aren't far enough behind in production for it to matter.

House Steiner has greater diversity in the light `Mechs they field than any other nation, have the most assault `Mech diversity, and are below average everywhere else. This suggests (correctly) that in the highly wealth-stratified Lyran Commonwealth, there is a greater demand for both A) prestige `Mechs for your rich scions and B) cheap crap for the hedge nobility to stick their kids into.

House Marik has the worst overall `Mech diversity which suggests some combination of: A) things in the FWLM are relatively peaceful (which we know is not true), B) The `Mechs they have are generally good enough that they don't need as many specialist variants, or C) the authors didn't give a poo poo about the FWLM during 3025-3049. They have better heavy diversity than most and have the best medium diversity in the Inner Sphere, while also fielding the worst diversity in light `Mechs. Which makes sense because the FWLM favors medium-weight scouts.

House Liao is statistically average almost across the board, which surprised the hell out of me.

House Magnusson I didn't bother with Rasalhague because I didn't want to make the FWLM feel bad. The RRA has the same overall diversity as the Free Worlds League but has even fewer light and assault `Mechs and just as many heavies, so they take the grand prize for most medium `Mech diversity. Who cares, it's Rasalhague? :shrug:

# ? Feb 13, 2017 22:48

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

PoptartsNinja posted:

Who cares, it's Rasalhague?

FREE RASSALHAGUE! :dota101:

# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:04

W.T. Fits: Apr 21, 2010; Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

PoptartsNinja posted:

House Marik has the worst overall `Mech diversity which suggests some combination of: A) things in the FWLM are relatively peaceful (which we know is not true), B) The `Mechs they have are generally good enough that they don't need as many specialist variants, or C) the authors didn't give a poo poo about the FWLM during 3025-3049. They have better heavy diversity than most and have the best medium diversity in the Inner Sphere, while also fielding the worst diversity in light `Mechs. Which makes sense because the FWLM favors medium-weight scouts.

Voting for C!

Zaodai posted:

FREE RASSALHAGUE!

I'll take two! :buddy:

# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:25

Tank Boy Ken: Aug 24, 2012; J4G for life; Fallen Rib

Zaodai posted:

FREE RASSALHAGUE!

This made me think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlCco3tJx4w

# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:27

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

Actually, standardizing on fewer models could be a hallmark of a better run modern military? Having a large diversity composed of small numbers of new designs plus large numbers of many generations of obsolete designs is a sign that your military can't afford to make large purchases of modern kit or shut down factories producing ancient crap.

What I'm getting at is that it'd be really important to include actual production numbers - and numbers deployed/maintained/still in service - of each design, in order to reach solid conclusions about the relative importance of different weight classes/battlefield roles to each Great House.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 23:53

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

Leperflesh posted:

Actually, standardizing on fewer models could be a hallmark of a better run modern military? Having a large diversity composed of small numbers of new designs plus large numbers of many generations of obsolete designs is a sign that your military can't afford to make large purchases of modern kit or shut down factories producing ancient crap.

What I'm getting at is that it'd be really important to include actual production numbers - and numbers deployed/maintained/still in service - of each design, in order to reach solid conclusions about the relative importance of different weight classes/battlefield roles to each Great House.

This is a very good point. For instance, in 3025, while Houses Steiner, Davion and Kurita all had Atlas plants, the Davion plant on Quentin only produced five of them in a good year (and Kurita's Al Na'ir plant was just as questionable), you had House Steiner building a couple dozen in the same span.

Still the idea that having a shitload of mech designs available in a world where military hardware can be kept basically pristine for centuries doesn't hold up quite as well. You might be able to get a good idea of the factions' equipment state by looking at the equipment levels from the Field Manuals (seeing how many A-level units each faction can field, for instance) but I've seen someone go down that rabbit hole before and it just turned into him whining about how the Combine was the author's most hated faction because their book came out first and so they got the low end of the power creep (even though their table was the first to have Clan mechs on it).

If you really want to have a model you could always try rolling out, say, the entire FWLM.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 00:05

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Leperflesh posted:

What I'm getting at is that it'd be really important to include actual production numbers - and numbers deployed/maintained/still in service - of each design, in order to reach solid conclusions about the relative importance of different weight classes/battlefield roles to each Great House.

As far as I'm aware, those don't exist. And it's a good thing they don't, learning how many `Mechs a nation actually produces would pretty well break suspension of disbelief because it would either be far too low to make any sense or far too high for the scarcity fluff to work.

In the 3049 - 3061 jump, House Marik's `Mech diversity jumps from 112 to 289 while the Federated Suns nearly triples from 132 to 389 so clearly the production is there. Obviously some of that is Lyran investment money fueling the broke-rear end Federated Commonwealth's growth, and Hanse re-investing that money into the League for upgrades to existing forces, but even the Draconis Combine which has the fewest manufacturing centers and lacks Lyran money or Davion payoffs jumps from 128 designs in active service to 394.

Diversity statistics don't tell us as much as they could, but they do still tell us a fair bit. I mostly did them for fun while working on spreadsheets for Alpha Strike (I wanted a list of every `Mech, point value, and role for 3025-3049 play) and just kinda ran these along the way.

Here're some more actually meaningful Alpha Strike statistics for 3049. Mostly to help you decide which nation to play based on what force compositions they have at their disposal:

code:

Ambusher          | Brawler           | Juggernaut        | Missile Boat
DCMS - 1  - 0.8%  | DCMS - 17 - 13.2% | DCMS - 17 - 13.2% | DCMS - 16 - 12.5%
AFFS - 1  - 0.7%  | AFFS - 22 - 16.6% | AFFS - 19 - 14.3% | AFFS - 20 - 15.2%
LCAF - 1  - 0.8%  | LCAF - 17 - 13.5% | LCAF - 20 - 15.8% | LCAF - 18 - 14.2%
FWLM - 1  - 0.9%  | FWLM - 17 - 15.2% | FWLM - 17 - 15.2% | FWLM - 16 - 14.2%
CCAF - 2  - 1.7%  | CCAF - 17 - 14.5% | CCAF - 18 - 15.4% | CCAF - 17 - 14.5%
------------------+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------
Scout             | Skirmisher        | Sniper            | Striker
DCMS - 22 - 17.2% | DCMS - 27 - 21.1% | DCMS - 17 - 13.2% | DCMS - 11 - 8.5%
AFFS - 17 - 12.9% | AFFS - 26 - 19.7% | AFFS - 14 - 10.6% | AFFS - 13 - 9.8%
LCAF - 18 - 14.3% | LCAF - 22 - 17.5% | LCAF - 14 - 11.1% | LCAF - 15 - 11.9%
FWLM - 19 - 16.9% | FWLM - 24 - 21.4% | FWLM - 10 - 8.9%  | FWLM - 8  - 7.1%
CCAF - 20 - 17.1% | CCAF - 21 - 17.9% | CCAF - 14 - 11.9% | CCAF - 8  - 6.8%

Everyone can brawl, but if you want Snipers? Play House Kurita. Want to put together a striker-heavy scout lance? The Lyrans are spoiled for choice. Want an Ambusher? Hope you like the Urbanmech.

Edit: If anyone wants the actual spreadsheets let me know and I'll find some time to toss them up for download on my patreon or something. I still haven't done Rasalhague but I did include ComStar (they get dick-all to put together a meaningful force with until 3050-3061).

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Feb 14, 2017

# ? Feb 14, 2017 00:45

terrenblade: Oct 29, 2012

Defiance Industries posted:

Which melee weapons are fixed weights? I never really bothered to learn the rules for the weird Solaris weapons so I feel like it's probably one of those.

The Vipers' game isn't to invade and conquer Terra, it's to reestablish a Star League.

Last starfighter reference goes here.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 01:58

Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

Defiance Industries posted:

Which melee weapons are fixed weights? I never really bothered to learn the rules for the weird Solaris weapons so I feel like it's probably one of those.

I think you're probably right, it's stuff like chain whips, the Vibroblades (Small/medium/large), or construction equipment like wrecking balls, pile drivers, or dual saws.

Sword/Mace/Hatchet/Claws/Lance/Retractable Blade are all scaling weights.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 02:16

Chronojam: Feb 20, 2006; This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!

There are way more types of mech then I ever imagined, apparently.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 17:10

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

There are less than it may appear at first.

You have your big gun types:
Juggernauts (heavily armored, slow, typically 85+ tons, nearly always have an AC/20)
Brawlers (good armor, moderate speed, good firepower, usually heavy or assault)
Ambushers (lightly armored slow light `Mechs with big guns)

You have your mobility types:
Skirmishers (Moderate armor, better than average mobility, moderate firepower, usually medium or heavy)
Strikers (Good speed, good firepower, usually light or medium)
Scouts (Good speed, poor firepower, usually light)

And your specialist/support types:
Sniper (usually does more damage at long range than up close)
Missile Boat (carries a lot of missiles, can indirect fire)

So, in Alpha Strike it's really only three main types, but they're defined enough to make it easy to tell at a glance how best to use them / counter them. Snipers you typically want to get in close to, while Juggernauts you want to stay away from if it all possible, etc.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 18:19

Soup Inspector: Jun 5, 2013

Since it seems our next mission is decided at this point but I don't think I've seen any "official" post closing down votes - can we still toss in last minute votes? Considering the fantastic missions on offer I'd be kicking myself if I missed out on the opportunity to vote for something.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 00:57

CourValant: Feb 25, 2016; Do You Remember Love?

Soup Inspector posted:

. . . I'd be kicking myself if I missed out on the opportunity to vote for something.

Definitely get your vote in; its been discussed before, while your vote may not be the 'decider', the level of interest in particular missions (as gauged by forum interest) affects the outcome and future appearances of related tracks (i.e., what happens afterwards).

So, vote.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 01:54

Soup Inspector: Jun 5, 2013

CourValant posted:

Definitely get your vote in; its been discussed before, while your vote may not be the 'decider', the level of interest in particular missions (as gauged by forum interest) affects the outcome and future appearances of related tracks (i.e., what happens afterwards).

So, vote.

True, true.

Just in case I'll toss my hat into the ring for B. I was tempted to go for D (since I'm genuinely curious to see what nasties the Capellans have come up with) but the mystery box option was too powerful to resist.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 02:12

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

This map demanded a big piece of scenery, which is why the update is taking so long.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:27

PhotoKirk: Jul 2, 2007; insert witty text here

PoptartsNinja posted:

This map demanded a big piece of scenery, which is why the update is taking so long.

YESSSSSS!

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:32

StarFyter: Oct 10, 2012

It's a Bagger!

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:37

CourValant: Feb 25, 2016; Do You Remember Love?

PhotoKirk posted:

YESSSSSS!

Because, we're fighting in an open pit mine?

I'm interpreting this as a bucket wheel excavator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket-wheel_excavator

And, we're excited about this because?

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:38

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Big setpieces mean big maps.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 19:56

Bloody Pom: Jun 5, 2011

# ? Feb 15, 2017 21:06

Farseli: Sep 28, 2009; This is what I live for. This is the purpose of living, for those who have no life.

How much damage does the Bagger 288 do to a mech?

# ? Feb 15, 2017 21:18

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

PoptartsNinja posted:

Big setpieces mean big maps.

You have big set pieces. That means you have big maps!

RIP AND TEAR, RIP AND TEAR!

# ? Feb 15, 2017 21:22

CourValant: Feb 25, 2016; Do You Remember Love?

Zaodai posted:

You have big set pieces. That means you have big maps!

RIP AND TEAR, RIP AND TEAR!

Calling it now, the mission will be decided by grand-melee at the bottom of the open pit mine, with the finale being a one-on-one 'Steiner Boxing Rules' match between Caesar and Freddy.

# ? Feb 15, 2017 21:58