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The Management posted:this morning's phone call: red flag
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Feb 15, 2017 03:07
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:red flag
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Feb 15, 2017 03:10
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"You're all loving cheaters and fakers and charlatans and hacks, you don't deserve to be in my beloved computer touching corps" - the interview process
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Feb 15, 2017 06:19
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lol I started my new job and now I have no time to post
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Feb 15, 2017 06:37
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Doom Mathematic posted:I'm just quoting this from about 25 pages back because it was a good post then and it's a good post now and it took me far too long to find it when I needed it just now. Something I would add: - what kind of feedback are devs / whatever offered and how often? It's simple, but it seems to tick the "asked an interesting question" box for whatever reason. If you get an uhh or "yearly review" without much explanation, chances are there's not much in the way of meaningful management going on. I've also gotten some red flags to micro-management with it too.
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Feb 15, 2017 07:08
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the questions i like to ask in interviews are 1. how much money 2. how about more money 3. put the money in this account poty fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 08:27
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Bloody posted:lol I started my new job and now I have no time to post don't worry, in a year you won't care anymore and then just post
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Feb 15, 2017 08:32
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The Management posted:don't worry, in a year you won't care anymore and then just post confirmed,  my motivation to work
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Feb 15, 2017 14:22
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The Management posted:I could have done that test question in half the time allotted and gotten it perfect if there was no clock running. ugh, so annoyed and now I look like an idiot i was in a bunch of college classes with my younger brother, who is just as smart as me and a harder worker to boot. we took 2 physics classes and a pretty tough math class together. we worked together in class, we shared notes, we did our homework together, which we got the same grades on. when test time came around he loving choked. every loving time choked. we'd sit down together and compare test answers and grades and every time on every question he got wrong it was because he couldn't figure out what the professor was trying to ask. he'd have pages of work and notes, all of it detailed and relevant and laser-focused on what he thought the question was about, and all of it off just enough so that even though the grader could see what he was getting at, it wasn't really right and he got marked wrong. over and over he'd assume something that wasn't supposed to be assumed, or not assume something that was subtly hinted as given. i went over every test with him with mine side by side, talking about what we understood the question to be and what form the answer was supposed to take. i wanted him to succeed- we spent whole days at the same table hashing stuff out, but the one place i couldn't help him was on the test, because he always got sideswiped by "clever" questions even though he knew the material flat. tests are loving bullshit. if you want a problem solved, you state it as clearly as you possibly can, you don't hide your assumptions and definitions in the preamble. if you want a problem solved, the person who's supposed to solve it should be able to ask others around them for help, at least in figuring out "from what we know of the question-asker, what are they looking for?". all my brother ever needed was to a few minutes here and there to get help in what the hell the question was driving at. I can't think of any work environment at all where that wouldn't be possible. there is no reality at all in the bizarre concept of a timed, right-answer test.
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Feb 15, 2017 15:41
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i love python
Valeyard fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 17:33
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oh yeah so I started working on a new fresh project and was going to spend 50% of my time on that but still work on my current project but it hasnt worked out that way, and now when I get this next release for current project out of the way then it will be full time on the new project Valeyard fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 17:50
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lol
Valeyard fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 18:09
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poty posted:the questions i like to ask in interviews are these are good questions, especially when the job is bad and you need to afford chemical dependencies to cope
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Feb 15, 2017 18:40
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Uncle Enzo posted:i was in a bunch of college classes with my younger brother, who is just as smart as me and a harder worker to boot. we took 2 physics classes and a pretty tough math class together. we worked together in class, we shared notes, we did our homework together, which we got the same grades on. when test time came around he loving choked. every loving time choked. we'd sit down together and compare test answers and grades and every time on every question he got wrong it was because he couldn't figure out what the professor was trying to ask. he'd have pages of work and notes, all of it detailed and relevant and laser-focused on what he thought the question was about, and all of it off just enough so that even though the grader could see what he was getting at, it wasn't really right and he got marked wrong. So what you're saying is your brother had great memorization skills and could even eventually understand the materials the textbook presented exactly as they were presented. However, when it was presented to him in a different manner that required him to use the knowledge he memorized to solve a problem he was unable to do so. Sounds like the test was doing its job in this case.
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Feb 15, 2017 20:12
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i failed a timed programming test because i didn't realize the section of the page the problem statement was in was scrollable. what was initially visible was a well formatted statement of what they wanted you to do, but you needed to scroll down for documentation on some of the classes they wanted you to use. also they let you pick from a list of languages to do the problem in but all the documentation assumed you were using java. i spent more than half the time just guessing at the interface and compiling to check (max 1 compile a minute on the test)
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Feb 15, 2017 20:25
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Ochowie posted:So what you're saying is your brother had great memorization skills and could even eventually understand the materials the textbook presented exactly as they were presented. However, when it was presented to him in a different manner that required him to use the knowledge he memorized to solve a problem he was unable to do so. Sounds like the test was doing its job in this case. sounds like anxiety actually
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Feb 15, 2017 20:38
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Ochowie posted:So what you're saying is your brother had great memorization skills and could even eventually understand the materials the textbook presented exactly as they were presented. However, when it was presented to him in a different manner that required him to use the knowledge he memorized to solve a problem he was unable to do so. Sounds like the test was doing its job in this case. well yeah, my brother is bad at tests, that's what i loving said. my point is that tests- particularly when designed by smug know-it-alls that think they're infallible- don't reflect much of anything besides the ability to take tests. i discussed this same issue with our math prof. his view was that tests can be: 1. a test to see how well you've learned and can apply the things you've been taught or 2. a thing that assesses your ability to improvise on the spot on what you've learned, meaning you're not tested on what you've been taught, but on stuff that's like it he expressed disdain for the first view, saying that if all he did was test someone's recollection of what they'd been taught, that was useless. he much preferred the second, where for example a test question had you describe the area under a 4-d curve, using equations given in a system of notation unlike any that we'd seen. I pointed out that it was unfair to introduce novel notation on the test, seeing as he'd never actually covered it. he said what you did, that if all he tested was if you'd learned what he'd taught, what was the point of that? all I'm getting at is that some people just don't test well, despite having as much knowledge and talent as anyone. my bro is great at figuring out what people want based on short conversations- besides, most people aren't sure of what they want anyways. it's hard to write questions that clearly indicate what the writer wants without giving the answer. it doesn't help when someone tries to make it into a dick-waving contest to boot.
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Feb 15, 2017 21:06
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did someone post this yet because this exists
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Feb 15, 2017 21:17
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Uncle Enzo posted:well yeah, my brother is bad at tests, that's what i loving said. my point is that tests- particularly when designed by smug know-it-alls that think they're infallible- don't reflect much of anything besides the ability to take tests. that math prof got totally hosed up by grad school
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Feb 15, 2017 21:22
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Uncle Enzo posted:
In your original post you said that "over and over he'd assume something that wasn't supposed to be assumed, or not assume something that was subtly hinted as given." To me, the ability to form appropriate assumptions and follow them to a logic answer goes to the core of a person's ability to solve problems and if a test requires that then it's a well written test. Some of my toughest exams in undergrad and grad school were open book. Open book tests had to be written in a way that required the test-taker to apply course material to problems rather than recite previously memorized information. Uncle Enzo posted:tests are loving bullshit. if you want a problem solved, you state it as clearly as you possibly can, you don't hide your assumptions and definitions in the preamble. if you want a problem solved, the person who's supposed to solve it should be able to ask others around them for help, at least in figuring out "from what we know of the question-asker, what are they looking for?". all my brother ever needed was to a few minutes here and there to get help in what the hell the question was driving at. I can't think of any work environment at all where that wouldn't be possible. there is no reality at all in the bizarre concept of a timed, right-answer test. That's not how problems work in the real world. I don't know what company you work for, but I don't get clearly defined problems with all assumptions and definitions predefined very often. Sometimes, it's not even possible to talk to the person who submitted the problem to be solved because that person might be able to provide anything more than a vague description/not be available for a discussion of a problem. There are legitimately bad standardized tests that people can be bad at taking (the GMAT comes to mind) but stating that someone is bad at tests because they're actually bad at problem solving is something completely different. Ochowie fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 21:47
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Rejection email in the morning, HR screen in the afternoon. The cycle begins anew.
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Feb 15, 2017 22:51
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da beeper king BABY posted:Rejection email in the morning, HR screen in the afternoon. The cycle begins anew. the agony and the ecstasy of job hunting
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Feb 15, 2017 22:53
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quote:tests are loving bullshit. if you want a problem solved, you state it as clearly as you possibly can, you don't hide your assumptions and definitions in the preamble. if you want a problem solved, the person who's supposed to solve it should be able to ask others around them for help, at least in figuring out "from what we know of the question-asker, what are they looking for?". all my brother ever needed was to a few minutes here and there to get help in what the hell the question was driving at. I can't think of any work environment at all where that wouldn't be possible. there is no reality at all in the bizarre concept of a timed, right-answer test. Ochowie posted:That's not how problems work in the real world. I don't know what company you work for, but I don't get clearly defined problems with all assumptions and definitions predefined very often. Sometimes, it's not even possible to talk to the person who submitted the problem to be solved because that person might be able to provide anything more than a vague description/not be available for a discussion of a problem. There are legitimately bad standardized tests that people can be bad at taking (the GMAT comes to mind) but stating that someone is bad at tests because they're actually bad at problem solving is something completely different. Yeah, bullshit trick questions are annoying, but if you can't apply knowledge to anything other than the original textbook example you saw you don't actually understand it.
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Feb 15, 2017 22:54
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lancemantis posted:that math prof got totally hosed up by grad school everyone gets hosed up by grad school
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Feb 15, 2017 22:58
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you are supposed to spend your time in that professor's class figuring out how he asks questions and what kinds of answers he's looking for
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Feb 15, 2017 23:19
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idg why contract staffing firms are so loving stupid about rates, I know they're billing $100-120/hr to the client so like don't play coy when I ask for most of it
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Feb 15, 2017 23:19
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I mean of course they want to pay some chump like $50 but if your brief says "must have 5-8 years of experience" there's a good chance most of the qualified candidates have employed someone from one of those same agencies and knows the math
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Feb 15, 2017 23:22
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jre posted:Yeah, bullshit trick questions are annoying, but if you can't apply knowledge to anything other than the original textbook example you saw you don't actually understand it. you both have a point, and you're right, just saying that the only problems I've ever seen him have a hard time solving are ones fabricated by people trying to be clever he deals with computer and people problems all day every day. turns out even a dumb question asked in earnest can be easier to understand than one that's been deliberately obfuscated
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Feb 15, 2017 23:55
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Iverron posted:these are good questions, especially when the job is bad and you need to afford chemical dependencies to cope
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Feb 16, 2017 00:21
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darthbob88 posted:Agreed. As I told my last recruiter, I can find fulfilling and interesting problems on my own time. I can't get fat stacks on my own time. 
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Feb 16, 2017 00:23
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qirex posted:idg why contract staffing firms are so loving stupid about rates, I know they're billing $100-120/hr to the client so like don't play coy when I ask for most of it it's probably higher than that, 150-180 is flyover state rates from what I've seen
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Feb 16, 2017 01:39
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i have an interview tomorrow. 
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Feb 16, 2017 01:57
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Uncle Enzo posted:well yeah, my brother is bad at tests, that's what i loving said. my point is that tests- particularly when designed by smug know-it-alls that think they're infallible- don't reflect much of anything besides the ability to take tests. idk maybe I'm a dipshit but a big part of operating in the irl is knowing when someone is laying a trap or being cute cuz they're a dick or even doing everything 'correct' in a deliberately wrong manner just to gently caress with whatever and being able to spot that stuff is important. I wasn't there for these tests tho so idk. just saying
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Feb 16, 2017 01:58
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or maybe they just flat out suck at expressing their ideas despite being real smart and you have to figure out wtf they're talking about and oh turns out all their words are backwards and what you thought was a recipe for some homely coconut rice is actually the solution to your business peobelm. basically what I'm saying is learn the Socratic method because that poo poo will save you
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Feb 16, 2017 02:00
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Iverron posted:it's probably higher than that, 150-180 is flyover state rates from what I've seen we bill like that for remote work
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Feb 16, 2017 03:52
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Rex-Goliath posted:or maybe they just flat out suck at expressing their ideas despite being real smart and you have to figure out wtf they're talking about and oh turns out all their words are backwards and what you thought was a recipe for some homely coconut rice is actually the solution to your business peobelm. basically what I'm saying is learn the Socratic method because that poo poo will save you always nod at what your customer claims is the problem and then try figure out what they actually need. always
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Feb 16, 2017 04:59
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Brain Candy posted:always nod at what your customer claims is the problem and then try figure out what they actually need. always its always an A-B problem. always
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Feb 16, 2017 05:22
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Uncle Enzo posted:you both have a point, and you're right, just saying that the only problems I've ever seen him have a hard time solving are ones fabricated by people trying to be clever im the opposite of your brother. i was really lazy about studying and passed all sorts of tests in college when i didn't know the material, just by reading into the wording of the questions and pattern matching. lol.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:15
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jony neuemonic posted:i have an interview tomorrow. good luck!
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Feb 16, 2017 06:31
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jony neuemonic posted:i have an interview tomorrow. kick their loving rear end!
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Feb 16, 2017 07:09
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