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TheSpamalope posted:Oh ok thanks for letting everyone know what you proved to us good job i guess i have included myself all along, lol.
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Feb 16, 2017 20:54
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Human existence is all really simple, you form a gang and then you get/take/make a bunch of poo poo and then get your dick sucked until some other person comes with their gang and takes/makes it better
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Feb 16, 2017 20:55
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Trump has a serious case of dick sucking lips
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Feb 16, 2017 20:56
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Human existence is all really simple, you form a gang and then you get/take/make a bunch of poo poo and then get your dick sucked until some other person comes with their gang and takes/makes it better even if you don't believe this, plenty of people do, and they come into conflict with people who think human life is inherently valuable, and then those latter people think "if only we could get these other people to think what we think," meanwhile the former think "boy those folks are idiots"
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Feb 16, 2017 20:56
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nomadologique posted:even if you don't believe this, plenty of people do, and they come into conflict with people who think human life is inherently valuable, and then those latter people think "if only we could get these other people to think what we think," meanwhile the former think "boy those folks are idiots" It's 100% how humans act. Even if you're talking altruism / wealth distribution that's just a way to grow your gang
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Feb 16, 2017 20:58
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my favorite response to me saying "i am an idiot" is "heh heh you really are an idiot aren't you!"
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Feb 16, 2017 20:59
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This thread's good now.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:00
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nomadologique posted:then you say something like "because there is an inherent value to human life." I take that as a given for the purposes of this thread because it isn't really the right place for a run down on basic morality stuff like that  If your position is just might makes right and all morality ultimately flows from that and the fancy words we tell ourselves are just justifications then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Otherwise I'm assuming some basic premises like "there is inherent value to human life" and "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few" yeah.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:02
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Moridin920 posted:Otherwise I'm assuming some basic premises like "there is inherent value to human life" But abortion is a good thing
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Feb 16, 2017 21:04
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Wow, this last press conference was a gem.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:05
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Didn't OP toxx somewhere itt about Trump's status re: hosed or not? I think absence of criminal wrongdoing indicates this will not be the dick that fucks Donald
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Feb 16, 2017 21:05
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Lowtax posted:Wow, this last press conference was a gem. Wrong thread friendo, the lols thread is thattaway.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:06
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:But abortion is a good thing Well that's a whole 'nother sticky argument but in a nutshell I don't think a fetus qualifies until it is at least at a certain stage of development; the consensus seems to be "around 3rd trimester." Pro-abortion people aren't pro-murder although I understand how it can appear that way to someone that thinks life starts earlier or whatever.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:07
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Moridin920 posted:Well that's a whole 'nother sticky argument but in a nutshell I don't think a fetus qualifies until it is at least at a certain stage of development; the consensus seems to be "around 3rd trimester." Yah I don't wanna argue it but it seems if human existence is inherently valuable then we want as many humans as possible
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Feb 16, 2017 21:10
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Lowtax posted:Wow, this last press conference was a gem. "I'm not ranting and raving; I'm just telling you you're dishonest people."
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Feb 16, 2017 21:12
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Yah I don't wanna argue it but it seems if human existence is inherently valuable then we want as many humans as possible Sunshine is inherently valuable too but too much will kill you
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Feb 16, 2017 21:13
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tao of lmao posted:Wrong thread friendo, the lols thread is thattaway.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:15
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It's so bizarre hearing our president say poo poo like "I inherited this mess"
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Feb 16, 2017 21:17
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Toadvine posted:It's so bizarre hearing our president say poo poo like "I inherited this mess" It's absolutely true though. The Don gives it to you straight, no chaser
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Feb 16, 2017 21:18
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From our astronauts on their rockets talking or??? Edit: I meant "cosmonauts"- what they actually are/became. Altair Knight fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 21:20
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Moridin920 posted:I take that as a given for the purposes of this thread because it isn't really the right place for a run down on basic morality stuff like that that's not my position. "might makes right" is also a moral statement. i don't have a moral position. i have behaviors. i try to come to terms with those in myself, but i don't compare them to a framework; or if i do, it's my framework, not someone else's, and i decided it, i didn't inherit it. (that's not entirely true, there is plenty of stuff i have inherited, but i am actively looking for those things so i can examine them and decide what to do with them.) but this is exactly what i'm after: the things you take as given. how did you arrive at that conclusion? there are people in the world who do not take that as given. how do you propose to deal with them? if it is given that human life is valuable, how is it that some do not take that as given? are they just wrong? but if they're just wrong, you're begging the question, because we were trying to get at the source of that wrongness.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:21
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v for vendetta is coming true. As a Brit im down with this
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Feb 16, 2017 21:22
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some moral positions are like a circle of wagons. some are an improvised palisade. some are a castle with drawbridge and moat. if i have a moral position, it's a picnic blanket in a sunny field.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:24
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nomadologique posted:that's not my position. "might makes right" is also a moral statement. i don't have a moral position. i have behaviors. i try to come to terms with those in myself, but i don't compare them to a framework; or if i do, it's my framework, not someone else's, and i decided it, i didn't inherit it. (that's not entirely true, there is plenty of stuff i have inherited, but i am actively looking for those things so i can examine them and decide what to do with them.) Well if you want to make a philosophy/morality/ethics thread around those questions I'm sure it'll get a lot of traction and I'll try to give you my best response (although obv I only speak for myself) but idk how relevant this really is to Trump anymore. quote:if it is given that human life is valuable Given for the purposes of the points I was trying to make, obv not everyone agrees on what fundamental morality is. Utilitarians would have very different responses compared to hedonists compared to existentialists compared to consequentialists and so on. Part of the issue with these questions is precisely that you can't just quantify it as easy as you can with math and there are always contradicting arguments to be made that might be valid. Just seems like a basic premise I think most people agree with on these forums so I was arguing based on that. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 21:29
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This scandal has absolutely destroyed Trump. There's no way he's coming back. Wait I'm sorry this is still 2015 right? So Flynn dindu nuffin, the Russian ship off the coast has actually been there for 3 years so the only reason liberals suddenly started screaming is that it sailed up the cost- away from intelligence centers in Virginia and Washington- toward their personal safe spaces, and the only entity on the face of the Earth with a lower approval rating than Trump is Congress so it's not like there can be any real opposition. Did I miss anything? I mean it's fun to laugh at the guy because he can't speak in public for poo poo. I'll grant you that. Idiocracy in motion. "The state of the country, is poo poo's hosed up and bullshit."
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Feb 16, 2017 21:30
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Moridin920 posted:Just seems like a basic premise I think most people agree with on these forums so I was arguing based on that. a big part of what i'm saying is that people who don't take that as given have a disproportionate impact on history. in general, people in power either do not take that as given, or act like they don't. it is hard for me to imagine a system of distribution of wealth and power that is not shaped largely by those people, because they are willing to do things other people are not. that willingness gives them a material power others do not have. i also believe that there is a hazy line, for more or less everyone, where they are willing to value their own lives and the lives of those they care about above the lives of people they don't know. that calls into question the entire principle of the inherent value of human life, because if that generic "life" is inherently valuable, it should be equally valuable in every case... but that's not how people tend to act, when push comes to shove. they tend to act like the value of human life derives from their emotional investment in that life. then, i would retrogressively suggest that the people who appear monstrous are not so different in this way. they, too, tend to value the lives of those they are invested in. i believe trump cares about his family and his friends, but does not care about most anyone else. i could be wrong, but that's what i see: a person who acts, more or less, the way we all act, who acts vigorously to further, support, and defend his own interests and the interests of those he is interested in, and who is willing to sacrifice the interests of others to those ends. if those are the criteria of a good president, then it seems incontrovertible that barack obama was a way better president than trump will ever be, because it seems pretty clear that barack obama did genuinely care about the american populace. he made the compromises he made to serve the interests he wanted to serve. nomadologique fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 21:30
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"Everything is all hosed up, this sucks, you people suck" Donald J Trump
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Feb 16, 2017 21:31
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Imagine Donald Trump ejaculating inside a woman and spawning new life.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:32
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nomadologique posted:a big part of what i'm saying is that people who don't take that as given have a disproportionate impact on history. Well alright you might be right on that. You probably are. But I don't think that just because it was so yesterday that means it is so forever nor am I going to just stop agitating for a more egalitarian society that works for everyone in it even if I thought there was something fundamental about humans preventing it. Into the shadow with teeth bared screaming defiance with the last breath, comrade. Spunky Psycho Ho posted:"Everything is all hosed up, this sucks, you people suck" Donald J Trump Giant Meteor 2016... won?
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Feb 16, 2017 21:33
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EorayMel posted:Imagine Donald Trump ejaculating inside a woman and spawning new life. Look around outside at any given moment and look at all the people who have had sex, its very similar
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Feb 16, 2017 21:34
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:It's 100% how humans act. Even if you're talking altruism / wealth distribution that's just a way to grow your gang I remember the first time I read Ayn Rand in high school too
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Feb 16, 2017 21:35
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ElGroucho posted:I remember the first time I read Ayn Rand in high school too Communism = "Lets mob up and take all that poo poo, and then divide it"
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Feb 16, 2017 21:36
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Moridin920 posted:But I don't think that just because it was so yesterday that means it is so forever i think you are on very good ground here. i don't see this behavior as fundamental, only habitual. if you can change human habits, you can probably change their relationship to mutual violence.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:40
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Here's the communist argument - "That guy has more than he needs. I need more. You need more. Lets team up, take it from him, and then divide it"
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Feb 16, 2017 21:41
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with this caveat: some energetic demand is, apparently, a fundamental part of the material universe. until we know something else about that, it does seem like we have to exploit some energetic source if we want to keep the lights on.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:42
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Here's the communist argument - Pure ideology, comrade. The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 21:43
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ElGroucho posted:I remember the first time I read Ayn Rand in high school too whatever you think about ayn rand, that people exist who adhere to her views is a fact you have to cope with one way or another.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:43
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Moridin920 posted:Pure ideology, comrade. Yah but I think it only exists as a destructive force, and that's why it always becomes an authoritarian system afterwards, because humans inherently work around a hierarchical system
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Feb 16, 2017 21:45
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Yah but I think it only exists as a destructive force, and that's why it always becomes an authoritarian system afterwards, because humans inherently work around a hierarchical system quote:If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. But yeah in practice poo poo seems to get hosed on haha. Idk but I don't think socialistic economics are necessarily mutually exclusive with democracy and whatnot.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:49
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Has there ever been a functioning commune ever ?
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Feb 16, 2017 21:49
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