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I skip every Ferengi episode except the ones where it is mostly about Quark himself.
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Feb 16, 2017 20:57
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Shame that Zek never got to do a duet with Vic. Vic'n'Zek For One Night Only
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Feb 16, 2017 20:59
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King Hong Kong posted:I skip every Ferengi episode except the ones where it is mostly about Quark himself. Thats like every non-tng Ferengi episode.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:00
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MrJacobs posted:Thats like every non-tng Ferengi episode. Don't forget somehow there were Ferengi on Voyager
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Feb 16, 2017 21:03
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MrJacobs posted:Thats like every non-tng Ferengi episode. The Ferengi arc in DS9 is about Quark's family and Ferengi society and irredeemably bad. By contrast, the Grilka episode(s) are good even though they hit somewhat similar themes.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:05
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Spoeank posted:Don't forget somehow there were Ferengi on Voyager And Enterprise.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:07
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King Hong Kong posted:The Ferengi arc in DS9 is about Quark's family and Ferengi society and irredeemably bad. Those are still primarily about Quark and how his family is loving with him. The only real exception is the Nog stuff in later seasons or when he was forbidden to go to school.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:18
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Vic Fontaine is worth it just for him inexplicably being in the Mirror Universe, then being killed dead before there's any explanation of how that makes sense. It's a great gag.
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Feb 16, 2017 22:07
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Counterpoint, because of Vic, we got singing Sisko. I'll let it slide.
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Feb 17, 2017 00:41
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EvilTaytoMan posted:And Enterprise. The Enterprise one was acceptable because they actually had the stones to bring back the ferengi energy whip thing, and make it look kinda neat (at least in my memory, it's been ages since I've watched it). Unrelated, The Greatest Generation just covered TNG's Violations, and holy poo poo did I not remember that episode quite as clearly as I thought I did.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:09
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From what I recall Vic appeared in like 8 episodes (when was he introduced, season 6?) and didn't sing an entire song in every one so the complaints about him always feel really hollow and whatever the reverse of rose-coloured glasses are. The one in Paper Moon is a montage so that's gets a pass (and, you know, the episode is "It's Only a Paper Moon"), you hear him sing in AR-558 but that's a recording Bashir puts on, and if you object to an Avery Brooks/James Darren duet then you're just crazy. So that's 5-7 episodes, assuming I forgot some, where you here a minute or two of singing.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:14
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The Ferengi in Voyager was a semi cool callback to a specific TNG episode so that right there puts it higher than the average for VOY. I mean, it's still dumb and bad but once they'd decided they were TNG2lite, it was a decent reference. Better alpha quadrant finds than space truck and loving Amelia Earhart.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:59
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Blast Fantasto posted:Vic Fontaine is worth it just for him inexplicably being in the Mirror Universe, then being killed dead before there's any explanation of how that makes sense. Umm, its because he's a hologram but in the Mirror Universe everything is the opposite so he's not a hologram there. 
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Feb 17, 2017 02:11
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Pwnstar posted:Umm, its because he's a hologram but in the Mirror Universe everything is the opposite so he's not a hologram there. So he's a robot?
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Feb 17, 2017 02:17
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I appreciate the Ferengi ep of Voyager because of the part where Archer is going all moral highground and telling one that greed and profit obsession nearly ruined humanity and the Ferengi is like "Sounds more like you guys were just poo poo at capitalism." which is absolutely true.
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Feb 17, 2017 04:00
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Phimosissy posted:I mean, it's still dumb and bad but once they'd decided they were TNG2lite, it was a decent reference. Better alpha quadrant finds than space truck and loving Amelia Earhart. I thought so at first but those indescribably lovely cities the 39ers built totally redeemed it. King Hong Kong posted:By contrast, the Grilka episode(s) are good even though they hit somewhat similar themes. Oh good we're talking about this, I just got to the 2nd Grilka episode last night and Worf was so out-of-character it was distracting. Cheating in an honorable duel to the death did not seem like something a guy like Worf would do at all. I mean I guess it wasn't that bad, they were doing a whole Cyrano thing where Grillka is falling for him but doesn't know it and then subverting it at the end with Jadzia. I suppose it just got out of hand and Worf was so invested in proving that he's got game and could win Grillka that he didn't really think of it as cheating. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 04:26
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Badda-bing totally justifies Vic because it owns, and gave us this riff on the TNG theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvwCXWCQuJc
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Feb 17, 2017 05:00
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Scudworth posted:I appreciate the Ferengi ep of Voyager because of the part where Archer is going all moral highground and telling one that greed and profit obsession nearly ruined humanity and the Ferengi is like "Sounds more like you guys were just poo poo at capitalism." which is absolutely true. Without warp drive how are we to find more people to exploit
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Feb 17, 2017 05:05
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Orv posted:I feel like you should at least warn her about 7. No, don't. I've made the mistake of warning people when a show goes down hill many times and half the time it just convinces them to stop watching after they hit the first crumby episode. I've still never finished Battlestar Galactica because I'd been hearing that "the later seasons are bad" poo poo for years and as soon as I hit the first genuinely bad episode (Apollo has a secret lover we've never seen before!), I was just "welp, I'm out." The same thing happened when I told my friend that season 5 of the Wire wasn't as good. Now he's stopped cold two episodes in and I'm sad because there's still so much good poo poo left to see. Don't try to manage people's expectations or project your own experiences onto them. Just let them watch and form their own opinions. e: Also Vic owns, but the Kira/Odo romance really doesn't and he's a part of that. Holodeck dress up got super loving old after a while. e2: The greedy, belligerent Klingons and conniving Romulans were both in TOS's first season and the Ferengi aren't really much worse, so complaints that they're "against Star Trek" make no loving sense. Duckbox fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 06:01
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I guess I don't like a lot of the acting in DS9, the show feels like it's for younger children more often than Voyager does.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:17
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willie_dee posted:I guess I don't like a lot of the acting in DS9, the show feels like it's for younger children more often than Voyager does. Braga account spotted
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Feb 17, 2017 06:18
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Duckbag posted:No, don't. I've made the mistake of warning people when a show goes down hill many times and half the time it just convinces them to stop watching after they hit the first crumby episode. I've still never finished Battlestar Galactica because I'd been hearing that "the later seasons are bad" poo poo for years and as soon as I hit the first genuinely bad episode (Apollo has a secret lover we've never seen before!), I was just "welp, I'm out." Finish BSG man what the hell. gently caress what people tell you.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:27
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Duckbag posted:Don't try to manage people's expectations or project your own experiences onto them. Just let them watch and form their own opinions. This is good advice, though you can at least tell them to skip the obvious stinkers like Shades of Grey or Profit and Lace.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:31
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In a way I feel sorry for Braga and specially berman. TNG was such a massive hit, when it ended they just couldn't move on. DS9 respectfully moved on and did their own thing, it distanced its self from TNG because it wasn't TNG. Voyager was a direct result of Berman not connecting or understanding DS9 or why it wasn't TNG, so damnit he was going to make TNG again. And well, we got Voyager out of it. Then we got enterprise, which was their attempt at doing something "different" to attract a non-trek audience but they still didn't really get it, and in their sad desperation they turned the finale into a literal TNG episode. All along they just couldn't get over TNG.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:41
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Duckbag posted:No, don't. I've made the mistake of warning people when a show goes down hill many times and half the time it just convinces them to stop watching after they hit the first crumby episode. I've still never finished Battlestar Galactica because I'd been hearing that "the later seasons are bad" poo poo for years and as soon as I hit the first genuinely bad episode (Apollo has a secret lover we've never seen before!), I was just "welp, I'm out." If you can put up with season 1-2 of TNG and season 5 of The Wire, you can finish BSG. It's worth it.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:50
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Man I like season 7! Sure it's got its issues but I'd say it's definitely got more good than bad. It's not like oh say season 7 of Buffy or anything.
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Feb 17, 2017 06:57
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Scudworth posted:I appreciate the Ferengi ep of Voyager because of the part where Archer is going all moral highground and telling one that greed and profit obsession nearly ruined humanity and the Ferengi is like "Sounds more like you guys were just poo poo at capitalism." which is absolutely true. More seriously I like the Ferengi in this particular sense because they also shine a light on our own system. We often assume casually that "of course" things would inevitably be the way they are, but the Ferengi, for all their awful poo poo, are also following a capitalist philosophy - but in a lot of ways it is clearly more of a religion, and they've built a civic society around it. (Not necessarily a good or a just one, but a functional one.) I don't think it's particularly valorized either. Nog basically stabs it in the balls: His father could be a genius starship engineer, but that's not how Ferengi society works.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:04
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Duckbag posted:No, don't. I've made the mistake of warning people when a show goes down hill many times and half the time it just convinces them to stop watching after they hit the first crumby episode. I've still never finished Battlestar Galactica because I'd been hearing that "the later seasons are bad" poo poo for years and as soon as I hit the first genuinely bad episode (Apollo has a secret lover we've never seen before!), I was just "welp, I'm out." Oh my god, you didn't even make it to the best storyline of the whole run (the election and the entire New Caprica arc at the end of S2 and the beginning of S3). Black Market was an isolated awful episode in the otherwise really-drat-good second season.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:05
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Baronjutter posted:In a way I feel sorry for Braga and specially berman. TNG was such a massive hit, when it ended they just couldn't move on. DS9 respectfully moved on and did their own thing, it distanced its self from TNG because it wasn't TNG. Voyager was a direct result of Berman not connecting or understanding DS9 or why it wasn't TNG, so damnit he was going to make TNG again. And well, we got Voyager out of it. Then we got enterprise, which was their attempt at doing something "different" to attract a non-trek audience but they still didn't really get it, and in their sad desperation they turned the finale into a literal TNG episode. All along they just couldn't get over TNG. That's because audiences never got over TNG as Their Trek in the first place. DS9 came around and audiences learned even early on (pre-Dominion) that it wasn't going to be another TNG. The numbers evaporated, and DS9 was left to do its own thing primarily because everyone involved realized it would never be Trek that got eyeballs enough to worry about what they were doing (according to The Fifty Year Mission), Voyager came around and was actively groomed to be TNGlite, but the failure was assuming that there was still this massive audience for Trek in general. Had Voyager come out straight from TNG, things might've been different, but by the time Voyager came out, the audience just wasn't there. Enterprise was no different; Trek wasn't something that could get TNG numbers anymore. The most interesting thing about how Trek has shaken out is that outside of TOS, Trek still favored based on how close it was to TNG.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:06
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The only show more important to my pop culture development than TNG is The Simpsons, so them trying to remake TNG as Voyager always fell flat to me, and the ENT finaly was akin to promising me fried chicken but when you bit into it you realize it was deep fried dog poo poo. When they made Futurama they conciously decided to make a show that while having similar humor beats to the Simpsons, was far removed from it, being more like the Venture Bros in the way it was written. B&B always came across to me the kind of guys who assume the success of TNG was 100% theirs, and no one elses.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:12
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Powered Descent posted:Oh my god, you didn't even make it to the best storyline of the whole run (the election and the entire New Caprica arc at the end of S2 and the beginning of S3). The whole planning and execution of a rescue mission to extract everyone from New Caprica is absolutely phenomenal and by far some of the best television I've watched.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:15
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Tapping out of BSG without getting to see Fat Apollo, sad.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:17
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The Adama Maneuver is one of the best efx shots ever shot for television.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:19
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twistedmentat posted:I went to bat for Sub Rosa, and I'll go to bat for Move Along home, while not spookely good bad, I'd certainly say it's at least fun. I like how Kira is just over everything the whole time. Move Along Home would be a classic if it had been a TOS episode. You'd have LARPs of it at conventions to this day.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:23
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Kazinsal posted:The whole planning and execution of a rescue mission to extract everyone from New Caprica is absolutely phenomenal and by far some of the best television I've watched. I am extremely jealous that Duckbag gets to (potentially) watch all this for the very first time.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:26
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VitalSigns posted:Oh good we're talking about this, I just got to the 2nd Grilka episode last night and Worf was so out-of-character it was distracting. Cheating in an honorable duel to the death did not seem like something a guy like Worf would do at all. To be fair, this is the same character who later decided to betray the Federation by providing material aid to a terrorist group in the midst of an emotional meltdown. I don't think Worf is an emotionally or mentally stable character for most of his time in DS9 and lots of his activities seem "out-of-character."
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Feb 17, 2017 08:26
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Baronjutter posted:In a way I feel sorry for Braga and specially berman. TNG was such a massive hit, when it ended they just couldn't move on. DS9 respectfully moved on and did their own thing, it distanced its self from TNG because it wasn't TNG. Voyager was a direct result of Berman not connecting or understanding DS9 or why it wasn't TNG, so damnit he was going to make TNG again. And well, we got Voyager out of it. Then we got enterprise, which was their attempt at doing something "different" to attract a non-trek audience but they still didn't really get it, and in their sad desperation they turned the finale into a literal TNG episode. All along they just couldn't get over TNG. Yeah, there's a lot of actors/novelists/filmmakers/artists/musicians out there who found amazing success early in their careers and just keep trying to copy their first big hit because deep down their terrified that fans will reject them if they try something new. I really feel sorry for all the old rock stars out there who, once a decade or so, still release "new" albums that sound exactly like the poo poo they wrote in their twenties. A lot of smart creative types really try to hammer home the message that you shouldn't be afraid of failure and it takes a while to find your voice, but sudden success can bring its own challenges. If you get popular before you ever learn what you're capable of, you can easily become convinced that you're only good at doing that one specific thing and you might be too scared (or self-sabotaging) to ever step out of your comfort zone.
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Feb 17, 2017 09:00
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WampaLord posted:I feel like you need another column for "Actively Avoid" because a "No" on Essential doesn't adequately prepare one for the horribleness of episodes like Cost of Living or Profit and Lace. WampaLord posted:Profit and Lace is worth skipping. WampaLord posted:This is good advice, though you can at least tell them to skip the obvious stinkers like Shades of Grey or Profit and Lace. Actually, Profit and Lace is good and worth watching.
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Feb 17, 2017 09:17
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Duckbag posted:No, don't. I've made the mistake of warning people when a show goes down hill many times and half the time it just convinces them to stop watching after they hit the first crumby episode. I've still never finished Battlestar Galactica because I'd been hearing that "the later seasons are bad" poo poo for years and as soon as I hit the first genuinely bad episode (Apollo has a secret lover we've never seen before!), I was just "welp, I'm out." Finish BSG dude. The back half isn't as good as the front half but there's still some great stuff in there. Also it suffers from goons wrecking it to poo poo in real time. There's a lot of exposition and slow plot movement in the back half so if an episode didn't move the plot forward fast enough, people ripped it apart. That's not the problem now. Finish BSG or at least get through the end of season 4. For the last decade, the adama maneuver on DVD/Netflix/Blu Ray is the first thing I've put on when I install a new AV component to absorb its full power. Rhyno posted:The Adama Maneuver is one of the best efx shots ever shot for television. My man
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Feb 17, 2017 09:24
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gently caress yo frames
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Feb 17, 2017 09:50
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