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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Sion posted:Yeah but the bedroom has a matress you can push out the window and then use to jump onto into the relative safety of outside/europe. But you realise you left all your stuff in the building including your clothes and a guy called Hans allows you to stay at his providing you wear the overly tight lederhosen he's just taken back off his Greek neighbour. You must wear the lederhosen.
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Feb 16, 2017 15:14
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Pissflaps posted:But you realise you left all your stuff in the building including your clothes and a guy called Hans allows you to stay at his providing you wear the overly tight lederhosen he's just taken back off his Greek neighbour. In this analogy, you're better off in the lederhosen than literally on fire, so I guess you're a begrudging Yes to Scottish Independence.
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Feb 16, 2017 15:27
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Pissflaps posted:But you realise you left all your stuff in the building including your clothes and a guy called Hans allows you to stay at his providing you wear the overly tight lederhosen he's just taken back off his Greek neighbour. Cool, but the place you used to live has still burnt down. You're alive though and, hey, you and the rest of the people in the building that you were in have all burned to death. You tried to tell them the place was on fire, you tried to tell them that maybe they shouldn't be searching for more kindling but, hey, the will of the people was to find as much dry wood and books as they could and- look, what I'm saying is I've probably flipped because the UK is a loving poo poo show right now.
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Feb 16, 2017 15:54
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Pissflaps posted:But you realise you left all your stuff in the building including your clothes and a guy called Hans allows you to stay at his providing you wear the overly tight lederhosen he's just taken back off his Greek neighbour. In this stretched analogy is this choice between Hans wanting you to wear lederhosen and John Bull insisting you stay in the building whilst he pours more petrol about the place?
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Feb 16, 2017 16:01
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I'd hope that the fire brigade arrived in time to put the fire out before any structural damage was caused and with a bit of paint things were back on an even keel a short while later.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:07
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Pissflaps posted:I'd hope that the fire brigade arrived in time to put the fire out before any structural damage was caused and with a bit of paint things were back on an even keel a short while later. Well there is a truck on the way but it's being driven by some insane, Charles Dickens villainess looking motherfucker and there's this blonde guy that's hanging from the side of it. He won't shut up about jam. They're the only people coming and I don't think they're interested in saving us.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:10
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Moving away from metaphors: deciding that the consequences of leaving an economic and political union are so dire that the best option is to do the same to an even more important one seems illogical.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:11
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Pissflaps posted:Moving away from metaphors: deciding that the consequences of leaving an economic and political union are so dire that the best option is to do the same to an even more important one seems illogical. Not if you truly believe that the political union that has more power on you (not necessarily more "important") are entirely counter to your beliefs, whereas the other better lines up with your beliefs, and you can aim to try and re-mold the other union away from it's questionable practices with like-minded people from the rest of the union. (We have been shown that there are not sufficient people in the rest of the Union to try and re-shape the union into one that better allows us to show our values.)
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Feb 16, 2017 16:24
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I note you've removed the economic aspect from your response. mehall posted:and you can aim to try and re-mold the other union away from it's questionable practices with like-minded people from the rest of the union. Good luck with this. Ask Greece how well that worked out for them.
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Feb 16, 2017 16:29
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Sion posted:I like to think that some of the people that may vote Yes after the Brexit referendum don't see themselves as nationalists, so much as people that are looking to escape a burning building. I'm an internationalist who voted Yes last time.
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Feb 16, 2017 17:49
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Update on Glasgow City Council de-funding all Sheltered housing in 2018. When asked what they were going to replace the service with they said they were open to suggestions. hosed.
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Feb 16, 2017 19:08
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I'm up for lederhosen, they're comfortable and practical.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:11
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Leggsy posted:EDIT: And isn't going on about "fake news" more of a Corbyn twitter supporter thing? Wouldn't surprise me if some of the denser cybernats in the swarm went for it as well though. https://informscotland.com/fake-news-from-a-fake-national-broadcaster/
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Feb 16, 2017 23:16
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Fake news is an everybody thing these days.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:09
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The BBC bias was real. Just compare the number of interruptions and the fawning over BT figures, and the complete lack of critical appraisal to unionist claims in the news.
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Feb 17, 2017 02:35
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I also have compelling evidence as shown in these weather maps...
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Feb 17, 2017 05:05
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Coohoolin posted:The BBC bias was real. Just compare the number of interruptions and the fawning over BT figures, and the complete lack of critical appraisal to unionist claims in the news. Interruptions you say? Time for a pro government protest.
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Feb 17, 2017 08:06
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Coohoolin posted:The BBC bias was real. Just compare the number of interruptions and the fawning over BT figures, and the complete lack of critical appraisal to unionist claims in the news. Thank you for proving my point.
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Feb 17, 2017 09:49
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yeah and I guess the bias against Corbyn is also absurd, it's not like BBC organised one of his MPs resigning a minute before question time or consistently misrepresented his views to make him look loony or anything.
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Feb 17, 2017 10:09
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Coohoolin posted:The BBC bias was real. Just compare the number of interruptions and the fawning over BT figures, and the complete lack of critical appraisal to unionist claims in the news. This bias may have had something to do with the status quo being known while the SNP were touting plans fuelled by unicorn poo poo. Not all opinions deserve equal respect.
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Feb 17, 2017 10:13
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Coohoolin posted:consistently misrepresented his views to make him look loony or anything. And now I thank you for proving mine.
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Feb 17, 2017 10:18
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http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/02/even-tony-blair-thinks-scottish-independence-credible-now a helpful intervention?
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Feb 18, 2017 09:30
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Pissflaps posted:And now I thank you for proving mine. I don't know why you can't just compromise and admit that while Corbyn hasn't been the best leader the media IS out to get him. The inverse of how May is also pretty poo poo but they're NOT out to get her so she does better in public perception.
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Feb 18, 2017 09:40
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Regarde Aduck posted:I don't know why you can't just compromise and admit that while Corbyn hasn't been the best leader the media IS out to get him. The inverse of how May is also pretty poo poo but they're NOT out to get her so she does better in public perception. You're not posting in the thread you think you're posting in.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:00
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39020443 Things are moving a lot faster than I would like. There's a bunch of reasons why Sturgeon could be going this fast and they're almost unanimously bad for actually winning a referendum.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:50
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They'd have to move quick to try and secure a referendum before the uk leaves the eu - or maybe somebody just fancies a bit of fundraising cash.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:03
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There was a hilarious article in the Sunday Herald today talking about how BritNat trolls are just as nasty as ScotNat trolls. While not in & of itself an unfair point, it was made into comedy by the fact one of the poor victims of the trolling was Wings Over Scotland himself, Bath's favourite son, Stuart Campbell. Who has some cheek to gurn about being trolled when he's one of the biggest wind-up merchants & bores on Scottish Internet.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:12
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The thought of that poisonous fucker's reaction to losing another independence referendum would almost make the miserable process worthwhile. He'd be alright though I'm sure he could continue milking a living out of a couple of thousand nationalists.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:23
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Pissflaps posted:They'd have to move quick to try and secure a referendum before the uk leaves the eu - or maybe somebody just fancies a bit of fundraising cash. It really depends on Sturgeon's intent. If she's moving quickly to capitalise on the Brexit discontent combined with the lack of any real Unionist leadership outside of Ruth Davidson. Then I feel like she might be able to pull something out, although it would be a hell of a gamble from a known pragmatist with a potential loss being absolutely fatal for Scottish Nationalism. The alternative is that the hardliners have gotten to her, or she's using a referendum as a means of galvanising her base before the local elections in May. Either one of these would be disastrous for the Yes side.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:34
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Leggsy posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39020443 I'm not sure how much we can actually read into this, Business For Scotland might well just be talking up the possibility in order to get its fundraising at a nice level. It's not like this is Sturgeon saying anything.
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Feb 19, 2017 23:38
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Angepain posted:I'm not sure how much we can actually read into this, Business For Scotland might well just be talking up the possibility in order to get its fundraising at a nice level. It's not like this is Sturgeon saying anything. I think you're right on this, especially as the fundraising target is curiously low at just £15,000. Not sure how much practical use that amount would be for any sort of campaigning, and given that Business For Scotland claim their "Associate and Stakeholder Members" number over 4,000, it's also curious that they didn't think to hit up these successful business people for a paltry £4 each. My sense is that this, along with Salmond's comments, are as much about putting out feelers and tentatively laying the groundwork than anything else, both to suggest that there's a groundswell of support for IndyRef2 but also just to gauge the reaction. Sturgeon being insulated from it seems intentional, since it makes it very easy to distance herself and the SNP from anything concrete. As a sidenote, the same Business For Scotland page also claims that they "are proud of the work they did and our contribution to the Yes surge from around the mid twenties to 45%." I was under the impression that Indepedence support had been running at around 30-35% for quite a while, so I did some quick fact-checking and was surprised to come back with support for an independent Scotland at 25% in 1992 and 6% in 1979, albeit both as part of multiple choice rather than strict yes/no questions.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:05
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If there is a second referendum a 'Leave/remain' question rather than 'yes/no' would be interesting.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:08
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I'm actually still a little amazed that they were able to phrase it "yes/no". "Yes" seemed a lot easier to market.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:35
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I see a reasonable amount of yes2 signs/ graffiti about. Which is bizarre because there wasn't a yes1.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:38
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Chas McGill posted:I'm actually still a little amazed that they were able to phrase it "yes/no". "Yes" seemed a lot easier to market. It definitely was - and it allows the nationalist campaign to present itself as naturally more 'positive'. The question had an inherent bias in their favour: leave/remain will do away with that, though many flags will become obsolete unfortunately.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:40
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Pissflaps posted:It definitely was - and it allows the nationalist campaign to present itself as naturally more 'positive'. The question had an inherent bias in their favour: leave/remain will do away with that, though many flags will become obsolete unfortunately. It seems such a well-known thing in PoliSci that, like Chas, I was amazed that whoever set/ok'd the question (the Electoral Commission?) allowed it to pass. Incidentally, there's a really good film starring Gael Garcia Bernal about the 1988 Chilean referendum to oust Pinochet called No, which deals with this very issue. Niric fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 00:54
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Have you ever been to Scotland Pissflaps?
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Feb 20, 2017 00:58
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Pissflaps posted:It definitely was - and it allows the nationalist campaign to present itself as naturally more 'positive'. The question had an inherent bias in their favour: leave/remain will do away with that, though many flags will become obsolete unfortunately. UKIP actually managed to get the EU referendum question changed for exactly this reason, I'm surprised the government let the Scottish referendum question stand. Though the Cameron administration can probably be defined by its arrogance so I guess I shouldn't be.
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Feb 20, 2017 05:44
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My understanding is that the Yes/No framing, and the broad franchise, was part of a compromise to abate any discussion of a devo-max option. Also the UK Government was extremely confident they would win with a decisive landslide regardless of the framing, rather than giving the SNP 100,000 members, a third term in Holyrood and almost every Scottish seat at Westminster. I've got no idea why the Yes/No framing would be rejected now, or why any other aspect of the referendum question/franchise would need to be revisited. Allowing EU citizens to vote will be particularly hilarious. Setting this precedent with the first referendum was pretty clever, in retrospect. Blame Salmond's memories of 1979. I agree that holding a referendum too soon would be a mistake. Wait for oil prices to recover, the Brexit disaster to unfold and the UK to devolve further into Daily Mail-style fascism. Also, the demographics are overwhelmingly on the side of independence (and this goes for middle-aged people in the working population). Give it a few years.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:26
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Alertrelic posted:I agree that holding a referendum too soon would be a mistake. Wait for oil prices to recover, the Brexit disaster to unfold and the UK to devolve further into Daily Mail-style fascism. Also, the demographics are overwhelmingly on the side of independence (and this goes for middle-aged people in the working population). Give it a few years. I love your optimism in thinking that fascist autocrats are going to give Scotland a second referendum.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:49
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