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MMF Freeway posted:Final fantasy's whole gimmick is that each game is different from the last. They just keep getting differenter
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Feb 17, 2017 16:21
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Andrast posted:Too bad it's an MMO so it's automatically poo poo Yeah, I don't disagree with you there. XIV is even worst as far as MMO's go because of all of its gated content, backtracking through old zones, and 2 hour long cutscenes.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:21
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XIV is fine but it's still an MMO. X-2 is the best followed by LR.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:21
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If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with?
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Feb 17, 2017 16:23
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exquisite tea posted:The roots of Final Fantasy are in incomprehensible kitchen sink storylines, awkward and badly translated dialogue, and magical children who are actually 1,000 years old. All of which FFX has in abundant supply. You not comprehending FFXs storyline says more about you than the game.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:24
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? Shadow Hearts
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Feb 17, 2017 16:24
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? Chocobo Racing.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:24
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with?
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Feb 17, 2017 16:25
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As long as it's not FF 1-3, 8 or one of the MMOs anything is probably fine
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Feb 17, 2017 16:26
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Nate RFB posted:I mean, sure, but you can also take an old formula and still apply it to a modern game and make it work. Bravely Default is one of my favorite JRPGs of the last few years and it's basically just a SNES FF game with QoL improvements. i, too, remember the time when snes ff games repeated the last act over and over for no real reason
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Feb 17, 2017 16:27
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Andrast posted:You not comprehending FFXs storyline says more about you than the game. ??? I'm the one saying FFX owns.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:27
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? ffta
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Feb 17, 2017 16:27
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I feel bad for the goons at work who'll check up on the thread at lunch or later today and have to wade through ten pages of FF chat
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Feb 17, 2017 16:29
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Jay Rust posted:I feel bad for the goons at work who'll check up on the thread at lunch or later today and have to wade through ten pages of FF chat Then we just have to start talking about what the best Zelda is, then won't we?
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Feb 17, 2017 16:30
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corn in the bible posted:i, too, remember the time when snes ff games repeated the last act over and over for no real reason Or 80 hours of Bravely Second, for that matter.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:31
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Majora's Mask is the best, everyone knows that now.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:32
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? The real answer is probably 4, Japan's favorite Final Fantasy. It's simpler than the other SNES entries when it comes to mechanics and story, and it's relatively short for A JRPG. It has many of the tropes that are common in all the "classic" games, like chocobos and crystals and black and white mages and all that poo poo. Although you have to make sure to get the GBA version, because the SNES release was butchered. FF6 is the one all non-crazy people agree is the best one, but it's a lot more involved, what with the gigantic cast of playable characters and esper-matching. FF5 has the job system and the job system rules, but it's kinda like the ugliest of the SNES games and has a pretty weak story compared to some of the others. I guess 9 would also be a good choice since its whole gimmick is cramming in as many references to the previous entries in the series as possible, but it's not that super great a game on its own and has some weird side mechanics that I don't love. It's also the game where the over-abundance of cutscenes started to really become apparent. I'd recommend 7 because for all its edgy gimmicks it's still pretty classic in its core mechanics, but that game is like, too many ideas crammed into one game, and that was really impressive at the time but it seems kinda gimmicky by modern game standards. So many mini-games... Plus it's hideous to behold.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:33
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They call it Final Fantasy because it's a name you immediately know, and if you haven't been following game news but hear that Final Fantasy XVI is about to be released it reminds you of the previous games and hopefully gets you interested. They draw from a shared pool of characters and themes, and because the Final Fantasy name holds a lot of clout they can funnel barrels of cash into the project while another team works on more traditional turn-based RPGs like the Bravely series. And nothing says the next FF game won't go back to a turn-based format, but how far back should it go? Allies on the right, enemies on the left? Swooping camera? Should it include an Auto button that makes the tactical choices for you? Action RPG like Lightning Returns? Programmable behaviors like FFXII? Luckily, almost every game in the series was made with care and the quality means that you can always return to them. Aside from maybe two titles, none are devoid of any redeeming features, and since they make for a diverse catalogue not liking VIII doesn't mean you won't like IX. We're fortunate to live in a world with a pool of solid RPGs under the Final Fantasy umbrella. But you already knew this. Time is a cycle that can be measured in "moments since everyone talked about their opinions on a popular series" and "moments until everyone talks about their opinions on a popular series." It's like the forums are breathing.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:35
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Ironically the first Final Fantasy also ended with a horrific time loop perpetuated by a monster.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:36
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Jay Rust posted:Majora's Mask is the best, everyone knows that now. 
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Feb 17, 2017 16:37
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Jay Rust posted:Majora's Mask is the best, everyone knows that now. Everyone's known that since 2000
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Feb 17, 2017 16:38
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Lurdiak posted:Ironically the first Final Fantasy also ended with a horrific time loop perpetuated by a monster. but enough about the Third Birthday
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Feb 17, 2017 16:38
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I really like Majora''s Mask 3D but the retranslation and some of the minor changes they made aren't as good as the original N64 game and that needles me greatly.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:39
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FF14 is fantastic and it's easy to not worry about being in an MMO when the music/setting is that good
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Feb 17, 2017 16:41
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Jay Rust posted:Is Final Fantasy XV any good? No it's terrible
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Feb 17, 2017 16:45
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The main program we use at my work is broken and I have been sitting at my desk for hours now with nothing to do but read forums and shitpost, AMA.mfcrocker posted:FF14 is fantastic and it's easy to not worry about being in an MMO when the music/setting is that good It's a great MMO that really improved after a very rocky start. The Fall and Rise of Eorzea is a good video series about how bad it was before A Realm Reborn. Seriously, go find a picture of one of the area maps before the reboot and marvel at its endless grid of identical boxes. When I played, I did so on the PS4 with a controller. Playing a Monk class that way was very fun and more engaging than I would have though given my experience with other MMOs. I mean, it's still repetitive and you're going to be using the same set of skills over and over and over again, but I could easily lose myself in the game for hours doing Leves or quests. I got burnt out in the series of fetch quests that buffer the story between the end of ARR and the first expansion.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:48
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exquisite tea posted:I think FF6 was a really important game and it did a lot to advance the narrative RPG as we know it today, but in relief there's an almost constant air of inconsistency in setting, characters, and tone that makes it difficult for me to see as very emotionally mature in 2017. Like you have medieval knights speaking chivalrously besides ninjas and mechs on ghost trains, which cool as it may be, kind of stretches the limits of plausibility, and worse, demands to be taken with utter seriousness. I think it does a pretty decent job with setting consistency when you factor in the conceit of "Empire using magic it doesn't understand to power technology." I agree that it doesn't get across some of its ideas as well as it could, though, and has some tonal inconsistency, at least in the World of Balance. Like, the Phantom Train, for example. It's treated kind of lightly, but that seems to be, for all intents and purposes, the setting's psychopomp--it is the thing that guides the souls of the dead to the afterlife. And it's kind of cool that it's a train! I wonder if it changes forms to make sense to the dead, like if it became a train when steam technology became commonplace because that's how people expected to travel. They never really touch on that, though, or just how important that train is. Cyan, Sabin, and Shadow getting on that train is the rough equivalent of going to the Farplane in FFX. When I think about its emotional maturity, I'm mostly thinking about the World of Ruin part, which I think does a great job (especially given the time when it was written) of exploring how people deal with loss. It does stumble at times, like when Celes finds a bandana on a seagull and somehow intuits that Locke is still alive, but its themes are communicated pretty effectively on the whole. Lurdiak posted:I guess 9 would also be a good choice since its whole gimmick is cramming in as many references to the previous entries in the series as possible, but it's not that super great a game on its own and has some weird side mechanics that I don't love. It's also the game where the over-abundance of cutscenes started to really become apparent. FF9's gameplay is rough, but I'd argue its story, setting, and writing are great. Like, I don't feel like it necessarily crammed in references to earlier FFs so much as it acted like it was an early FF. We see white and black mages walking around in their classic costumes all the time in, say, FF4, and that's exactly what FF9 does with them, though with a few twists. I like the choice to make black mages engineered weapons of destruction, because it sort of makes sense--in any FF, black mages only ever use magic to kill and destroy, so what if they were built for that purpose? It also makes a big deal about the summons in the main story like FF4 did, which was sort of a throwback at the time but has since become sort of a staple (FF10, 11, 14, and 15 all feature classic FF summons as major plot elements). Aside from a throwaway gag about a guy with spiky hair using a big sword and a villain inexplicably named Garland, I can't really think of anything in FF9 that felt like an unearned "wink-wink, nudge-nudge, remember old FFs" reference. I think it also does an incredible job of infusing character into its world. The dialog (with the exception of a single digit number of poorly-translated lines) feels lively and often really natural, while having idiosyncrasies for each character in a much better way than, say, Chrono Cross. And that applies to random NPCs you see in two cutscenes or standing around towns, too, which is awesome.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:49
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FF14 was cool but doing 100% of the e: seriously half the quests are "run all the way across the world and hide behind this box for 3 seconds while something happens and then come back"
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Feb 17, 2017 16:52
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? Depends on the person. If they're already into JRPGs to a certain degree, maybe FF6. I think it being an SNES game with some still pretty SNES limitations, it might have a bit of a curve to get over for someone who is totally new to JRPGs, and especially for someone who's used to modern games with expressive character models and such. FF6's sprites are pretty expressive, but they're still tiny sprites. But if the person's already into JRPGs in general, then I think they'll get into 6 just fine, especially because some JRPG experience can help highlight how revolutionary FF6 was when it came out. Otherwise, probably FF9, for the reasons I outlined above. You get to hang out in a colorful world bursting with character and the game never lets itself wallow in directionless angst. Vivi's story is heartbreaking, but he carries on, and the game never lets you forget just how mature and resilient he ends up being in the face of a horrible beginning and his inevitable mortality. Zidane has about an hour of angst towards the end but never stops being the good-hearted guy you've come to know throughout the game. To be fair, the gameplay suffers from being slow and having a few dumb systems (ugh, Trance), but, for me at least, the sheer amount of charm and the compelling characters is plenty to make it a joy to spend 30-40 hours with. Though really, if someone was entirely new to JRPGs but was interested in trying one, I'd probably start them with Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, or Paper Mario instead of an FF game.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:56
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Jay Rust posted:If you wanted to introduce FF to someone with no experience with the series, what game would you start with? 7. It's an amazing game. Maybe the 7 remake will be even better.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:56
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Harrow posted:FF9's gameplay is rough, but I'd argue its story, setting, and writing are great. Like, I don't feel like it necessarily crammed in references to earlier FFs so much as it acted like it was an early FF. We see white and black mages walking around in their classic costumes all the time in, say, FF4, and that's exactly what FF9 does with them, though with a few twists. I like the choice to make black mages engineered weapons of destruction, because it sort of makes sense--in any FF, black mages only ever use magic to kill and destroy, so what if they were built for that purpose? It also makes a big deal about the summons in the main story like FF4 did, which was sort of a throwback at the time but has since become sort of a staple (FF10, 11, 14, and 15 all feature classic FF summons as major plot elements). Aside from a throwaway gag about a guy with spiky hair using a big sword and a villain inexplicably named Garland, I can't really think of anything in FF9 that felt like an unearned "wink-wink, nudge-nudge, remember old FFs" reference. I feel like the story starts falling apart towards the end of the game, in a lot of little ways, and the game's tendency towards overlong cutscenes and extended dialogue really hurts its pacing. Like the writing isn't particularly bad, but you could trim about half the dialogue in the game and lose very little. I also think the villains are really drat weak compared to, well, pretty much any FF except 8.
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Feb 17, 2017 16:57
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Early FFs are better than the later ones because they're jrpgs but without the anime
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Feb 17, 2017 17:03
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Lurdiak posted:I feel like the story starts falling apart towards the end of the game, in a lot of little ways, and the game's tendency towards overlong cutscenes and extended dialogue really hurts its pacing. Like the writing isn't particularly bad, but you could trim about half the dialogue in the game and lose very little. I also think the villains are really drat weak compared to, well, pretty much any FF except 8. Garland is weak, but I liked Kuja a lot. FF9 is generally pretty good at peeling back a character's surface layers slowly to show you what's really driving them, and it applies that to Kuja just as much as to the main party members. That said, I don't think he gets truly interesting until near the end of disc 3, when he realizes he's exactly like the black mages he made, and exactly as screwed as they are, and decides he's going to go down in the biggest blaze of glory anyone ever could. It works because it ties Zidane, Vivi, and Kuja's character arcs all together. All of them have to deal with having been created for a purpose that isn't their own and facing down either an uncertain future (Zidane) or rapidly-approaching mortality (Vivi and Kuja). They all deal with it different ways. Zidane hides behind a happy mask. Vivi struggles but comes out the other end the most mature character in the cast. Kuja lashes out, because violence is all he knows. It's pretty basic character writing, to be fair, but the way they all play off each other thematically is pretty impressive for an FF game. Hell, Kuja even plays off of Steiner with themes of loyalty to someone who doesn't care about you (Garland and Brahne) and the fear of being replaced (by Zidane, for Kuja, and Beatrix, for Steiner). I don't really agree about the overabundance of dialog, or at least not to the degree of trimming "about half," but I also haven't played through in four years or so, so I might not have as clear a memory of some of the more filler-y parts. (No argument about FF8 having weak villains. Really, FF8 could have had a great villain, but they threw away Edea, who I thought was a really compelling villain, after disc 2 and gave us a distant, boring sorceress we have no reason to give a poo poo about.)
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Feb 17, 2017 17:04
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fridge corn posted:Early FFs are better than the later ones because they're jrpgs but without the anime I'm going to start calling that anibiguous
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Feb 17, 2017 17:05
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fridge corn posted:Early FFs are better than the later ones because they're jrpgs but without the anime You've done it now, somebody's going to argue that DnD ripoffs peppered with Star Wars references and classical operatic themes are inherently anime.
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Feb 17, 2017 17:05
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fridge corn posted:Early FFs are better than the later ones because they're jrpgs but without the anime What about FF12? That's a later FF that I don't think is particularly anime.
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Feb 17, 2017 17:07
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fridge corn posted:Early FFs are better than the later ones because they're jrpgs but without the anime They were always anime, you just didn't know it.
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Feb 17, 2017 17:09
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You liking them doesn't make them not anime
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Feb 17, 2017 17:09
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Ff6 is definitely not anime because one of the characters is a 10 year old girl and she's not sexualised in any way
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Feb 17, 2017 17:12
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Harrow posted:What about FF12? That's a later FF that I don't think is particularly anime. Ageed. FF12 is really good
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Feb 17, 2017 17:14
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