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Concerned Citizen posted:she definitely would have won if the 3rd party votes could have been re-allocated to top 2, so they did matter That's kind of presumptuous because nobody knows how people would have voted in a ranked choice system other than it would have led to Bernie winning. It's even a step further along the salt line than hanging on the popular vote count. She lost under the rules that have existed since before she was born and given that people voted with those rules in mind pointing to any alternate form of voting and saying it would have been different is just clinging on to false hope that has to die if the democrats are gonna fix anything. Though if they wanna press for ranked choice that's cool.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:21
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Thoguh posted:That's kind of presumptuous because nobody knows how people would have voted in a ranked choice system other than it would have led to Bernie winning. It's even a step further along the salt line than hanging on the popular vote count. She lost under the rules that have existed since before she was born and given that people voted with those rules in mind pointing to any alternate form of voting and saying it would have been different is just clinging on to false hope that has to die if the democrats are gonna fix anything. well we know from demos, exits, and polling that the people who voted 3rd party were predominantly dem-leaners. that was one reason for clinton's modeling miss: it assumed a 3rd party voters would pull 50/50 from dems and gop, when in fact republicans mostly stayed with trump. there were quite a few 3rd party votes in the midwest and most of them would have gone for dem that wasn't hillary clinton.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:35
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Concerned Citizen posted:she definitely would have won if the 3rd party votes could have been re-allocated to top 2, so they did matter If you assign the an-cap votes to the trumpist counts and the quantum wizard votes to the hillarite counts you get an even more massive trump victory iirc
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Feb 18, 2017 00:37
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Concerned Citizen posted:she definitely would have won if the 3rd party votes could have been re-allocated to top 2, so they did matter Are you assuming every Stein/Johnson/whoever else vote would've gone to hildog? Lmao. Plenty of them would've stayed home or written in something or left it blank. Also, advocate for electoral reform so we get runoffs and preferential voting instead of punching the left for not being centrist. They never will be, that's why they didn't vote hildog. Efb
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Feb 18, 2017 00:39
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Shinjobi posted:Hilldawg sucks and needs to disappear. Add also SNL.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:40
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Concerned Citizen posted:well we know from demos, exits, and polling I've got some bad news for you about making presumptions based on polling in TYOOL 2016 and beyond.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:46
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got any sevens posted:Are you assuming every Stein/Johnson/whoever else vote would've gone to hildog? Lmao she doesn't need to win "every stein/johnson" vote. 4% of PA was 3rd party, she only needs to net 44k~ votes out of that pile to win that state. even easier in wi/mi. so there's no doubt that 3rd party votes were a huge problem for her, which happened because she failed to hold together the dem coalition. the issue was not "leftists voting 3rd party." it was dem-leaners who strongly disliked hillary - not necessarily leftists at all. most voters don't really have strong ideological preferences anyway.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:50
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Concerned Citizen posted:she doesn't need to win "every stein/johnson" vote. 4% of PA was 3rd party, she only needs to net 44k~ votes out of that pile to win that state. even easier in wi/mi. so there's no doubt that 3rd party votes were a huge problem for her, which happened because she failed to hold together the dem coalition. you realize that johnson earned 3x the votes stein did in PA, right.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:52
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Thoguh posted:I've got some bad news for you about making presumptions based on polling in TYOOL 2016 and beyond. well, we work with the research tools we have. polling is still usually correct.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:well, we work with the research tools we have. polling is still usually correct. You go to war with the Mook you have.
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Feb 18, 2017 01:14
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Do I not like Hillary Clinton? Sure, she's a contemptuous, vindictive and secretive person but isn't as lovely as the republicans. Do I think that she's the devil incarnate? Please, you're giving her too much credit. Why would you flatter her sillies~  what I'm saying is Hillary for....Mayor of NYC thx
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Feb 18, 2017 01:35
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Lastgirl posted:Do I not like Hillary Clinton? Sure, she's a contemptuous, vindictive and secretive person but isn't as lovely as the republicans. Lock her up in a safe blue district
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Feb 18, 2017 01:36
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Chicago Mayor Hillary R. Clinton 
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Feb 18, 2017 01:37
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Lastgirl posted:Do I not like Hillary Clinton? Sure, she's a contemptuous, vindictive and secretive person but isn't as lovely as the republicans. Please no. We're having a hard enough time figuring out how to usurp power from the bad dems and DINOs already; bringing in Clinton will make the city (and the state) an impenetrable bastion of centrism.
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Feb 18, 2017 01:53
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I'd rather have King Bloomberg than Hillary as my mayor.
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Feb 18, 2017 01:59
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Woof Blitzer posted:Chicago Mayor Hillary R. Clinton I'm a hardline Hillary hater but even I'd be excited about this, Rahm is pretty much a Republican with a D by his name.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:09
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MizPiz posted:Please no. We're having a hard enough time figuring out how to usurp power from the bad dems and DINOs already; bringing in Clinton will make the city (and the state) an impenetrable bastion of centrism. will make? Impenetrable Bastion of Centrism sounds like a cool thing to defy, why so defeatist already *lights molotov*
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Feb 18, 2017 02:11
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Lol https://twitter.com/TYTPolitics/status/832733880301936645
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Feb 18, 2017 02:13
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Lastgirl posted:will make? In a decade centerism will be the cool underdog counter culture fight. I assume theyll be using south park boxed sets as weapons??? no i got it Horseshoes 
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Feb 18, 2017 02:17
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Venuz Patrol posted:as long as she paid for whatever gaudy restaurant she picked. there's a lot of people i would put up with for a shot at michelin star food Save for it like you would a vacation and its not that difficult to go to a Michelin restaurant. A two star for two with wine pairings will come in under $1000, which is completely worth it if that's your thing. My wife and I save year round for a Michelin trip. We did our first three star on New Years Eve this year, which was magical. We saved for a year and ate really, really cheap poo poo for like a month before and after to defray the costs, but it was totally worth it.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:21
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That's Honorable Tom Perez to you.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:33
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Lastgirl posted:will make? Okay, fair enough.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:33
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Thoguh posted:That's Honorable Tom Perez to you. Tom has graciously agreed to spend time with us! (at the last DNC forum, while running for DNC chair)
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Feb 18, 2017 02:35
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/16/dnc-leaders-unhappy-with-party-activists-aggressiv/ More like this, please.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:38
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We want your votes, not your views you filthy plebs
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Feb 18, 2017 02:46
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Concerned Citizen posted:well, we work with the research tools we have. polling is still usually correct. except the ones from the 2016 election. using tools is good, ignoring obvious flaws is dumb Also the 3rd party voters are irrelevent because if she's doing her job they wont matter. If you answer to "she should have run a competent campaign" is "BUT THE 3RD PARTIES/RUSSIANS/OTHER MARGINAL BULLSHIT" then your blind to some very core problems with the hillary campaign.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:52
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Not a Step posted:Save for it like you would a vacation and its not that difficult to go to a Michelin restaurant. A two star for two with wine pairings will come in under $1000, which is completely worth it if that's your thing. My wife and I save year round for a Michelin trip. We did our first three star on New Years Eve this year, which was magical. We saved for a year and ate really, really cheap poo poo for like a month before and after to defray the costs, but it was totally worth it. So much makes sense now.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:57
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Hillary's gonna be referred to as the Dukakis of the 21st century and its messed up
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Feb 18, 2017 03:01
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Agean90 posted:except the ones from the 2016 election. using tools is good, ignoring obvious flaws is dumb Most of the polling, particularly outside the Midwest, was right. Exits in particular were fine. There were issues with turnout models and the race changing rapidly in the final week. What we know is that the additional support for 3rd party candidates this year (which was higher than usual) largely came from demos that are strongly Democratic. So there's definitely an issue there. I don't see it as a "Hillary lost due to third party voters" thing but rather that it's a symptom of the greater issue with her candidacy.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:06
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Al! posted:In a decade centerism will be the cool underdog counter culture fight. I assume theyll be using south park boxed sets as weapons??? Nice.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:15
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Did anyone itt actually vote 3rd party in a state that mattered at all because that is like the 4th time I've seen everyone saying you can't make fun of Hillary if you voted that way. Which is dumb as hell but I also have no idea who it is actually directed to.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:44
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Did anyone itt actually vote 3rd party in a state that mattered at all because that is like the 4th time I've seen everyone saying you can't make fun of Hillary if you voted that way. Which is dumb as hell but I also have no idea who it is actually directed to. They get pissed at people for basically not voting for Hillary hard enough. And god help you if you lived in California or New York and simply didn't vote for Clinton. 
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Feb 18, 2017 04:56
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Hell, I live in Washington and both voted for her and constantly tried to convince my friends to vote for her too because I didn't want Trump to win but I'm still mad as hell about her.
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Feb 18, 2017 05:08
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Lastgirl posted:Hillary's gonna be referred to as the Dukakis of the 21st century and its messed up Yeah, Dukakis doesn't deserve that
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Feb 18, 2017 05:10
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I voted for Hillary in MI and did my best to convince my fellow millennial friends to vote for her, and also participated in downballot GOTV. I will be spared when the angel of death crosses over the rust belt. I won't, I voted for Bernie in the primary
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Feb 18, 2017 05:18
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Fallen Hamprince posted:her kellyanne conway skit was really funny though she failed to capture the essential loathsomeness of the real kellyanne yeah humanizing the habsburg haint isn't a good look
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Feb 18, 2017 05:30
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etalian posted:Lock her up
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Feb 18, 2017 05:34
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The Muppets On PCP posted:habsburg haint
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Feb 18, 2017 05:44
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 "You’re happy. The guy you wanted to be president won. “He’s going to bring back our jobs,” you said, as you shelled out $25 dollars of your hard earned money for a red trucker hat. Money that might otherwise have paid for a week or two of school lunches for your kids. “No, he doesn’t,” we replied, turning the hats over to show you the “Made in China” label on the inside. But you didn’t listen. “He speaks for me, you said.” “No, he doesn’t,” we replied as we pointed toward the more than 3 thousand lawsuits against him. Lawsuits from people he cheated out of money with a fake university. From people who lovingly did the best work that they could on his projects—proud to be working for him—only to be cheated out of the money owed to him from their contracts. Millions of dollars he refused to pay once the work was done. “He tells it like it is,” you said, anxious for the day when he would construct his great wall between the United States and Mexico to keep out criminals—murderers and rapists. “No, he doesn’t,” we said, pointing out the number of illegals he employs at his Florida resorts and the suits and ties he and his daughter have made in Mexico. We even told you what his ex-wife said. “Without Mexicans, who will clean our bathrooms?” But you didn’t listen. “He’s going to make America great again!” you said. “Really?” we asked. “And what period of time will we be returning to when America WAS great? And speaking of great, look at the changes in America since 2008. The stock market is up, the price of gas is down, 20 million people have health insurance who didn’t before.” But you didn’t listen. Maybe you were thinking of the “peaceful years of Eisenhower.” Years when black people couldn’t ride in the front of the bus or use the same water fountain as white people. When the KKK reigned in the South and people were beaten and lynched. We looked at the face of Representative John Lewis and asked ourselves how great HE thought those years were. “He isn’t crooked, like Hillary,” you said. “He is worse,” we said, pointing out that there is a very distinct possibility that there is a money trail that leads directly from him to Vladamir Putin. We noted that the biggest names in the Russian Mafia in New York were frequently seen with him. That for a while, they actually LIVED in Trump Tower and ran a numbers racket. We reminded you that the charges against him in the Trump University case were RICO charges—namely racketeering. Again, we reminded you of contractors not paid for their work on his projects. But you didn’t listen. “He’s a great businessman. He’s going to run America like his businesses,” you said. “Seriously?” we asked. “You mean those businesses that have been bankrupt at least four times? That he has been bailed out twice by a Saudi Prince. That he is so corrupt that the Las Vegas gambling board won’t even issue him a license to run his own hotel there. That he bought the Plaza Hotel and ran it into the ground until he finally had to sell it to foreign interests. That his partner in Dubai was wanted to serve a five year prison sentence in Egypt for bad land deals. That perhaps you took his reality show a little too seriously. But you didn’t listen. “He is a Christian,” you said. “Is he?” we asked. We reminded you of his reference to the Two Corinthians at Liberty University, and that repeatedly he was asked what was his favorite Bible verse, and his responses were incoherent statements that didn’t even appear in the Bible. We reminded you of his cheating on all three of his wives, having children out of wedlock and having his third wife pose nude on his airplane while he was still married to his second wife. That didn’t sound very Christian to us. We noted that almost daily, we listened to Hillary Clinton talk about her Methodist upbringing, quoting her favorite verses word for word. But you didn’t listen. You flocked to him and thanked God for delivering him to you. “He tells the truth!” you said. “He never has before,” we replied. Mentioning that he is hiding his tax returns from the public and that his own son said that releasing them would result in questions that would detract from his campaign. We pointed out the daily fact checking being done of the things he said—that virtually everything he said during the debates was determined to be lies and exaggerations. “He told us Hillary is going to tear down the Second Amendment!” you cried out. “She can’t,” we replied, calmly explaining that only one Amendment in history had been repealed and that was Prohibition. We explained what any kid in a basic civics class knows. That the President has no role in the repeal of an Amendment. That it requires a 2/3 vote of both houses of the Senate and then a referendum on the ballot in every state in the land—to be approved by 3/4th or 38 out of 50 states. It was easily Googled, but you didn’t listen. And you didn’t check. But you didn’t listen.You didn’t care. He was on YOUR side. He was going to take care of you. “He knows how to fight ISIS,” you said. “Oh?” we replied. “His plan is to fight them in Syria. But what about all the other countries where ISIS exists? Belgium? France? The Phillipines? AMERICA? Is he going to fight them here? And while we’re at it, what about OTHER terrorist groups? The Taliban? Boku Harem? Al Quieda? Are we going to fight them, too? And where does he get the military expertise that leads him to say he knows more than our generals? From a military high school?” But you didn’t listen. “He’s going to take care of our military and our vets,” you said, proudly. “Is he?” we asked. We mentioned the numerous letters he wrote to the Mayor of NY demanding that homeless Vets be removed from Fifth Avenue because it was unsightly. We asked you what happened to the six million dollars he raised on his telethon and why it hadn’t been distributed immediately to those groups who needed it most. We reminded you that he dodged the draft to Vietnam 5 times, citing a painful bone spur in his foot, while playing baseball, basketball and football at the University of Pennysylvania. We pointed out that he accepted a man’s Purple Heart, saying he always wanted one and it was better to get it “the easy way.” “He won’t go back on his word about Social Security and Medicare. Our investment is safe,” you said. We told you we doubted that would be true, and on the first full day of his presidency, he announced he WAS going to cut both, along with Medicaid to the tune of about 41 percent. We reminded you that Social Security was your money and that FDR made us a promise that if we invested in our futures, the money would be there when we needed it. “He told Obama he wasn’t going to dismantle Obamacare. Anyway, we have ACA,” you said. We chuckled and mentioned that Obamacare IS ACA. And we noted that on Inauguration Day, in between his swearing in and the balls, he set the wheels in motion to end Obamacare without another plan to replace it immediately. A move that will leave between 20 and 31 million people uninsured. We also point out that in his new plan, it is likely that no pre-existing conditions will be included. We do a little checking and learn that in 2015, 1,685,210 NEW cases of cancer were detected. 27.6 million were diagnosed with heart disease, that 29.1 million have diabetes, 1.2 million are living with HIV/AIDS, that 5.4 million have Alzheimer’s, that nearly 120,000 babies are born each year with birth defects, more than 3.5 million have Autism, 5.7 million adults have Bipolar Disorder, that 119,000 are currently waiting on organ donor lists, 30,000 have Lou Gehrig’s Disease, the number of coal miners with black lung disease is ten times what the government estimated it would be. Each year, 310,000 children are diagnosed with lead poisoning, the number of people in America who have had strokes is 6.3 million, 26 million Americans have kidney disease and 2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese. We point out that those are all pre-existing conditions that in the future may not be covered by insurance. “But he is Pro-Life!” you say, We point out that only about 3% of Planned Parenthood services are abortions. The rest is medication, physical examinations, PAP tests and pre-cancer screenings, mammograms, treatment of sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy tests and prenatal care and educational services for women. We also ask you how a person can be Pro-Life—defending the rights of the unborn—and yet oppose medical coverage for all those people with pre-existing conditions we just listed for you. You don’t care. You don’t have one of those conditions. Or at least you hope you don’t. We also add that the average Social Security check is currently $1,180. A 41 percent reduction takes it down approximately $472 dollars, leaving the average Senior Citizen with about $700 dollars to pay rent, groceries, medication, utilities, transportation, clothing and other expenses with. The average cost for prescription drugs for an INSURED person is $185 per month. Utilities average $148 per month, rent $905, milk $3.36 per gallon and a pound of ground beef $5.26. We ask you how a Senior Citizen can afford that on $700 a month. You don’t know. You are starting to get worried. We mention that at the CIA on Saturday, Trump said we should have TAKEN the oil from Iraq and wistfully smiled when he said we may get another chance. You have two sons of draft age. This concerns you. We all heard a lot about “boots on the ground” during the election. You believed Hillary Clinton was “hawkish”, but she did say she wouldn’t resort to boots on the ground. You are nervous. We bring up Sean Spicer’s first White House briefing—a crazy rant about the media lying about the numbers of people at the Inauguration. We ask you if this makes any sense to you. You can’t answer. We tell you that as many as 3.3 million people marched in the Women’s March on Saturday. Almost the same number as Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by. We look up Trump’s approval rating right now. About 45%. At this point in his administration, Obama’s was 67%. Even Nixon’s was 59%. That means that people who voted for Trump have already defected. He is not supported by his own voters. Maybe that is why he had the smallest inauguration in history. You think? It will only go down as things like Social Security benefits and his other early decisions get factored into that number. Maybe these early decisions don’t affect you, but sooner or later, some of them will. Oh yeah, and remember that wall Mexico was going to pay for? You cheered “MEXICO!” every time he asked who was going to pay. Well, they’re not. At least not right away anyway. We are going to lay out the money and then bill Mexico. How do you say “The check is in the mail?” in Spanish, because that is going to be their response. Remember all those people we told you about? The ones who did work for Trump and never got paid? Well, Mexico is going to give him a taste of his own medicine. To the tune of several billion U.S. dollars. The FBI, CIA and other Intelligence Agencies will continue to follow the money trail from Putin to Trump. We have evidence that Russia holds information that can be used to blackmail the President of the U.S. If it proves to be true—and it must seem pretty likely for them to be making so much of it—he is finished. He will leave the White House in handcuffs and tried for treason. These organizations don’t just randomly investigate people for no good reason. Several in the Intelligence Community are already saying it is serious enough to warrant another election. Does it scares you to think that Putin controls the U.S. President? That Russia bought our election? Remember those good old days of the 50s that were so great? Remember Joe Mc Carthy and the fear of Communism in the United States? He was going after actors, authors, artists. How do you feel when you consider the possibility of Russian infiltration in the FBI and going all the way up to the Oval Office? Does that make you comfortable? Or does it scare the britches off you? Did you know that he has Congress working on pulling out of the U.N.? Or that he has recalled EVERY ambassador in the world and we currently have NONE? Diplomacy must always be the first line of defense. Without democracy, there can be no humanity. We quote Sun Tzu from The Art of War. “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting,” You think about that for a moment and remember who has the nuclear codes. We see the fear in your face and nod. You think back to that day you heard him speak for the first time on television. Calling Mexicans murders and rapists. You remember him impersonating a disabled reporter and joking about it. Then there was the water bottle and Marco Rubio. You think about his tweets. What once seemed amusing now seems like the bullying words of a narcissist with serious issues. You weren’t supposed to vote for him because he made you laugh. You were supposed to vote for the candidate best suited for the job. You glance down the list of his appointees and read the latest about them. Fraud, bankruptcies, Cayman Island accounts, 6 people who were at the top at Goldman Sachs. Remember how mad you were at Hillary for making a speech there? A speech about women in business. She was paid $650 thousand dollars that she donated to the Clinton Foundation—which used it to buy medication to vaccinate children around the world. These guys got 7 and 8 figure bonuses and didn’t even bat an eyelash. Still think he speaks for you? The man in the gold tower with friends who get 8 figure bonuses? In your whole life, will you earn 8 figures? Do you really believe people who make 8 figure bonuses care about YOU? Maybe—just maybe—you voted for the wrong person."
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Feb 18, 2017 05:47
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Concerned Citizen posted:she definitely would have won if the 3rd party votes could have been re-allocated to top 2, so they did matter No lol if you re-allocate 3rd party votes trump just wins more of the popular vote.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:01
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