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Truga posted:He may be right, but remember the last 2 patches when poo poo was properly hard? Everyone just stopped raiding instead. I do not. I joined during the Winter Sale on Steam, so I missed the boat on the Gordias Savage stuff people keep talking about. At least I think that's what gave people issues, from my understanding?
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Feb 19, 2017 04:48
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A3S and A4S basically killed the raiding scene because only the best could ever clear it. Could've been the best raids ever created for all I know, but if only 3 people ever clear it, what's the point? And SE doesn't seem to have the cash to just poo poo out 10 different difficulties like wow does.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:50
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the only reason why people quit raiding when content was hard was because ffxiv has cultivated an audience and attitude that content isn't supposed to be that hard. wow raiders are perfectly content to bang their heads into the wall on the hardest difficulties until they clear more or less based on getting lucky. edit: i mean, they definitely mixed the read on what their player base wanted, you can't pump out vaguely challenging content and then ratchet the difficulty up to twelve. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 05:01
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Gordias scourged the tiny raiding community on Brynhildr and I don't want to see that happen again.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:16
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If you have B4B/RS/Hawk's up or you'll be able to kill the enemies in 30 seconds or less, use Grenado. Otherwise use Spread Shot.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:22
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Bulwark used to be amazing when you could shield swipe on GCD. It was TP restoring because it only cost 40, and it was loving incredible on giant trash packs because you could just pacify everything over and over again while the DPS/Healer AOEed them down.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:37
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:wow raiders are perfectly content to bang their heads into the wall on the hardest difficulties until they clear more or less based on getting lucky. Yeah, but wow has 10 times the players and like 5 difficulties, doesn't it? When you have 10 times the players, I'm sure there's enough players there who'd hit their head against gordias/midas 24/7, but ff14 isn't that big, and given the bell curve, welp.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:38
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Truga posted:Yeah, but wow has 10 times the players and like 5 difficulties, doesn't it? When you have 10 times the players, I'm sure there's enough players there who'd hit their head against gordias/midas 24/7, but ff14 isn't that big, and given the bell curve, welp. I honestly think it has more to do with the PS3 limitations than anything. WoW has three difficulties - Normal, Heroic, and Mythic - but some of the mechanics even in FFXIV's Savage raids are baseline Normal mechanics in WoW (ZurvEx's Soar is something most raiders would have done like three expansions ago, for example). The fights here are very well designed and fun, but it does seem like they aren't working with as many options as a PC-only MMO. I suppose it's a matter of perspective and goals, really. While I don't agree with HOW he says it, I do agree with LMF's overall point, which is that complaining about a class being "subpar" even though it's perfectly capable of clearing content seems a bit elitist and negatively discourages people from playing something they might think is fun because it's somehow suboptimal for ~reasons~. To me, if you're really worrying about things on a speedrun level, you've already essentially beaten the game and are just nitpicking. But, on the other hand, if speedruns and such are really important to a player, then nitpicking might make sense. I haven't done enough hardcore stuff in FFXIV to know if that's really a big thing in the community, so it might very well be! I haven't tanked much, but it does seem FFXIV's classes are much better balanced than WoW's, and there's really no situation where you need a certain class to clear something, so telling people not to play PLD because groups will lose 30secs on a speedrun even though they might enjoy that class comes off as a little jerky. Maybe DRK and WAR can do all the same things slightly better, but some players might not think they are as fun to play, and you aren't essentially losing any ability to clear anything by having a PLD instead. Axel Serenity fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 05:45
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I ran A11N like five times tonight and five times I died to the Prey in the second half why are healers so bad at just throwing out shields hkasdfghkadsfh man that made me salt up White mages excepted I guess, but goddamn dude even a Stoneskin, not like the serious raid damage is happening yet at that point
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Feb 19, 2017 05:59
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I'm sure really skilled players could get around it or something but let me loving tell you, healing a paladin in a12s is loving miserable. Dark Mind is better than paladin's entire goddamn kit in that fight.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:12
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Axel Serenity posted:I honestly think it has more to do with the PS3 limitations than anything. WoW has three difficulties - Normal, Heroic, and Mythic - but some of the mechanics even in FFXIV's Savage raids are baseline Normal mechanics in WoW (ZurvEx's Soar is something most raiders would have done like three expansions ago, for example). The fights here are very well designed and fun, but it does seem like they aren't working with as many options as a PC-only MMO. I personally very much care about class balance and poo poo, cause I enjoy theorycrafting around (though I don't have time to do it myself anymore), but more importantly because diversity is fun. If everyone just runs using the kit over and over things get stale quick. I'm just saying that statements like ff14 being super easy should be taken within the context of the playerbase. They had the harder raids with second coil savage, and first two packs of alex savage, and the player base just isn't big enough to handle the difficult content in big enough numbers. I love this game a lot and I hope more people end up playing it down the line, because it'd give SE the option to poo poo out more, better content for a wider variety of player involvement levels, but until we get there, it seems like this is going to stay the norm if they want more than just a handful people clearing the raids. That said, I'm sure PS3 limitations also play a role in the mechanics as you say. They have to get super creative just to get all the UI on the screen in PS3 due to the lovely amount of ram (I'm not kidding, they had to move poo poo around a lot just to get the TP bar on your party window), I can't imagine how they handle getting the boss fights to play on that thing. Ciaphas posted:I ran A11N like five times tonight and five times I died to the Prey in the second half why are healers so bad at just throwing out shields hkasdfghkadsfh man that made me salt up A11N is healer check 3.x: the instance, and it's downright brutal. No, there's no serious raid damage happening, but there are lasers mechanics happening and they'll always target healers. They probably can't cast a stoneskin, I know I sometimes have trouble getting adlo off and that casts almost twice as fast. I've solo healed A12N as scholar without much issue, but a11n still terrifies me. Also, you won't be saved by a single shield, unless it's a crit adlo or you're already in i260 or somesuch.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:20
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I know, I healed it successfully several times as AST (more successfully as nocturnal of course) when it was new  I'm just salting because of how many times I got nailed I guess
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Feb 19, 2017 06:22
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It's not even a hardcore vs. casual thing, and in fact the people on the casual end of the raiding spectrum should be impacted more by the imbalance. Think about it: if you raid for an hour a week at most, do you want to spend that hour pissing around with an underperforming class comp, or do you actually want to get something done with your limited time? Again, not saying that you need to use The One True Comp to beat fights, but having a good comp gives you a lot of advantages that could make a difference in weeks or months in how long it takes to beat a fight.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:23
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Truga posted:
Which I always find incredibly surprising for "normal" content when 2 markers go out at the same time.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:24
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vOv posted:If you have B4B/RS/Hawk's up or you'll be able to kill the enemies in 30 seconds or less, use Grenado. Otherwise use Spread Shot. Okay this makes sense. I don't know why this didn't dawn on me. Thanks! As well - god drat I love MCH. It's taking a bit to get use to Gauss since the entire 20+ levels before hand you get to move around while shooting mans.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:37
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:That's the issue I have with this bullshit people keep spewing on the thread about X class being poo poo, like that guy who was convinced 2-3 pages ago that monk will be trash in SB, and is not good right now. It's dumb meta baby bullshit that only matters if you're pushing for world first clears. Any random assortment of classes can do any of the content in the game, including savage, if you play your class correctly. the "pld/mnk/whm are bad" attitude isn't an sa specific thing. it's everywhere anyone is talking about the game in an even remotely serious manner, even the official forums. you're right though that any comp of sufficiently skilled can clear (this) tier, but if you want to pretend that some classes aren't noticeably outclassed by others then lol I guess. there's a difference between being viable and being competitive. like dude, I started tanking on pld and loved the poo poo out of it, but eventually switched over to drk in the middle of alexander and it's just like, holy poo poo, the runs got so much smoother why was I playing anything else?
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Feb 19, 2017 06:40
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here's some poo poo on my twitter feed that might have been posted already but lol I don't read this loving thread https://twitter.com/Rrhododendron/status/832898324898467840
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Feb 19, 2017 06:48
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WHM is good though - a good WHM can drag a less experienced or more careless party to a clear using raw healing throughput. It's just you don't need massive amounts of healing in this game after you've learned the fights well because so much damage is predictable or avoidable. It's nothing like the PLD or MNK situation.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:49
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hobbesmaster posted:WHM is good though - a good WHM can drag a less experienced or more careless party to a clear using raw healing throughput. It's just you don't need massive amounts of healing in this game after you've learned the fights well because so much damage is predictable or avoidable. sure, but welcome to popular opinion
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Feb 19, 2017 06:51
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Yeah, WHM is really good, it just contributes less dps than a balance card. WHM as a main healer is baller, WHM as just that guy who hits medica 2 when raidwides go out and lets fairy handle the rest? You want an AST. The problem is really the fairy, I wonder how they're gonna solve that. In 3.0 I remember fairy heals going up by a tiny amount between level 50 and 60 (compared to my physick/adlo going up by quite a lot) and being annoyed about that and apparently even that wasn't enough of a nerf.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:54
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Truga posted:Yeah, WHM is really good, it just contributes less dps than a balance card. WHM as a main healer is baller, WHM as just that guy who hits medica 2 when raidwides go out and lets fairy handle the rest? You want an AST. If you nerf the fairy right now everyone would want to run AST/AST and take the LB penalty.
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Feb 19, 2017 07:09
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Truga posted:OK yeah that is bad, the only things I run as PLD are dungeons if the heal queue is bad, and I tanked sophia a couple times and sophia has tons of downtime constantly, so I guess just I never hit the 4 minutes of dps barrier. I read somewhere in here that they're supposed to be tp positive now cause most of their skills are 50 tp, guess not. They are definitely not. Paladin in PvP is probably the most fun I get out of the class, but what's not fun about it is having to stop doing anything in Frontlines for a good long moment because you can't actually do anything at all due to running dry on TP. The change to and removal of Enliven from Gladiators PvP skillset, without a replacement given, was a really bad decision because Paladin with the ability to generate TP was extremely nice. Being a nearly indestructible stunning rear end in a top hat who can make other people nearly indestructible while keeping enemies stuck in your teams murder blob is still great though.
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Feb 19, 2017 07:36
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Fister Roboto posted:It's not even a hardcore vs. casual thing, and in fact the people on the casual end of the raiding spectrum should be impacted more by the imbalance. Think about it: if you raid for an hour a week at most, do you want to spend that hour pissing around with an underperforming class comp, or do you actually want to get something done with your limited time? Again, not saying that you need to use The One True Comp to beat fights, but having a good comp gives you a lot of advantages that could make a difference in weeks or months in how long it takes to beat a fight. I don't think this is really true. If you are super casual, there's a good chance that you and the group of friends you play with don't already have the meta comp as your mains and you aren't going to be bothered to level up alt classes just to raid. You'll go with what you have so you and your buds can have fun for an hour or two. I can see a mediocre to bad comp adding weeks to your clear time for a given fight. Adding multiple months is going to be more down to lack of player skill and party coordination (or just low time spent raiding causing people to forget things from week to week) than comp unless you are doing something bizarre like 4x melee. Even if you have a weird comp, as long as people are good at their jobs, capable of learning the fight, and able to work with each other, you can work out a method for handling the fight. If SB creates introduces super hard fights that literally can't be done unless you have both the meta comp AND highly skilled players, well, I'd consider that a bad thing. Because then they're mechanically justifying the perception of "this class sucks" rather than making an effort to keep everything viable. And all bets are off if we get another Living Liquid bottlenecking off a raid tier.
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Feb 19, 2017 07:41
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ActionZero posted:Everyone just has to run to the centre of the arena once the expanding circles explode then stay still until dragon's rage fires a GCD after the knockback. Like all stack damage stuff you're dependent on the rest of the party moving into range but it's not really that much harder than a stack marker by itself (unless one of the towers didn't get taken in which case paralysis has the potential to screw you over). Well yeah mate, you can boil every mechanic to "Everyone just has to _____" but I've found that it's not always easy to pull off. Second boss from Vault guy doesn't spawn in the middle during that last phase. You actually have to find him and move to him. Not only that, everyone needs to turn their character to face the right direction so that the whole party gets pushed back together. Otherwise you won't be together when the stack goes off 1 second later. So you might even manage to find Grinnaux (I think it's him) and survive Faith Unmoving, but if you get knocked back the wrong way, someone is getting obliterated. I felt real great salvaging a Thordan EX run by popping HG through that while explicitly telling everyone not to stack with me. Go Paladin sometimes!
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Feb 19, 2017 07:50
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SonicRulez posted:Well yeah mate, you can boil every mechanic to "Everyone just has to _____" but I've found that it's not always easy to pull off. Second boss from Vault guy doesn't spawn in the middle during that last phase. You actually have to find him and move to him. Not only that, everyone needs to turn their character to face the right direction so that the whole party gets pushed back together. Otherwise you won't be together when the stack goes off 1 second later. So you might even manage to find Grinnaux (I think it's him) and survive Faith Unmoving, but if you get knocked back the wrong way, someone is getting obliterated. I have no idea where you got this strategy, because it's an overly complex solution to a simple problem. The reason everyone runs to the center of the room is so they are all uniformly pushed away by Faith Unmoving in the same direction no matter where the knight spawns. The push is never far enough to push you into the death wall, and it's not so extreme that you need to hug the knight casting Faith Unmoving, so the center is a foolproof way to handle the mechanic even if you don't know where the push will come from.
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Feb 19, 2017 07:59
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Hey im returning after a year or so of not playing, have a lvl 45 maruader. What are the main combos for marauder again? Also do we just talk through the discord now or is there a group linkshell?
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Feb 19, 2017 09:04
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Exmond posted:Hey im returning after a year or so of not playing, have a lvl 45 maruader. What are the main combos for marauder again? You don't actually have the buttons necessary for the primary warrior rotation until level 50.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:06
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Past 30 you should be a Warrior so I hope you've got your job stone. If not do your job quests. Combos are enmity generator (ends in Butcher's Block) and buff combo (Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye/Path). Even when main tanking, you alternate the two to keep your buffs (Maim, Eye) up.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:09
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SonicRulez posted:Well yeah mate, you can boil every mechanic to "Everyone just has to _____" but I've found that it's not always easy to pull off. Second boss from Vault guy doesn't spawn in the middle during that last phase. You actually have to find him and move to him. Not only that, everyone needs to turn their character to face the right direction so that the whole party gets pushed back together. Otherwise you won't be together when the stack goes off 1 second later. So you might even manage to find Grinnaux (I think it's him) and survive Faith Unmoving, but if you get knocked back the wrong way, someone is getting obliterated. I'm afraid you've got a pretty big misunderstanding of how Faith Unmoving works, it doesn't knock you backward according to how your character is facing, it knocks you in a line directly away from where he is standing (wouldn't make sense if you were facing away from him and you got moved towards him), this means that if your party is stood together when it goes off they will always be stood together after they get pushed. It also isn't that big of a knockback, moving you less than half the arena diameter but probably a bit more than a third, so if you're stood dead centre there's no risk of ending up in the death wall. Putting these two facts together means that if everyone is stood together in the dead centre of the arena's circle, they will never be knocked into the edge and they will all end up stood together for the Dragon's Rage, you then stand still for one more GCD until the attack resolves and carry on (your MT does need to move to face him away from the rest of the group cause he's going to cleave very soon after).
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Feb 19, 2017 09:54
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 I can play other jobs again!
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Feb 19, 2017 10:11
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The only mechanic I can think of that moves you based on your facing is Calofisteri's Penetration ( ), which is a KB if you're facing away and a draw-in if you're facing towards her. I remember people being confused about that on launch, which is weird because she literally yells out how the mechanic works right before she uses it.
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Feb 19, 2017 10:23
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vOv posted:The only mechanic I can think of that moves you based on your facing is Calofisteri's Penetration ( I've yet to see no-one get hit/sucked in by Penetration despite this and literally saying 'look away from her during penetration' every time I've done my quick notes for the fight. It's weird. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 10:27
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https://twitter.com/Nova_Crystallis/status/833253148995227648 https://twitter.com/Nova_Crystallis/status/833253444752384000 vOv fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 10:54
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A11s kind of moves you with numbers? It's not really the same thing, but if you're even and are facing where the hit is coming from, you don't get knocked back. It can be a "gotcha!" moment in the final stage where there is no wall if you're not facing the right way. Somewhat related, but I'm in a very casual static that is on a12s, and we have both a PLD and a MNK. I think they almost wanted me to play WHM in A11s too, but I dug my feet in and stuck with AST. I don't think our raid DPS is that bad, but I know our PLD is working his DRK up to make the change. I am honestly curious about if it'll make a difference in A12s. The thing about casual raids is, even if you know what would be a better comp, you don't really have the resources to have your members change. That's kind of why it'd be nice if we didn't know in the back of our head that maybe it'd be easier if we were different jobs. Overall though, I don't really mind. But I think that's mostly because of the raid tier we're on. I think it's right around the difficulty I like. I used to play WoW way back when, and even though I know a lot's changed, it was also true that I felt that to raid back then, I had to sink a lot of hours into it. That's the culture WoW originally had with respect to raiding, or really, any end-game content at all, and I think that's cultivated a player base that's really devoted to going through that difficult content. That's really why I think they can push the envelope more. I also think the number of players in a raid encounter gives WoW a little more room to play with. Not only is it, by nature, harder to coordinate more players, which makes more encounters innately more difficult, but it also allows you to create more specific roles for classes. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. It's late. I do know my old roommate was a casual WoW player, though, and when she saw me doing Thor Ex at release, she thought it was the most crazy thing ever. At least from her perspective, ex raid content from then in FFXIV was way above the normal WoW content.
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Feb 19, 2017 11:03
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vOv posted:https://twitter.com/Nova_Crystallis/status/833253148995227648 lmao
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Feb 19, 2017 11:06
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The DPS feedback without and explicit parser is interesting, wonder what it will be
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Feb 19, 2017 11:08
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Frankly, that whole answer was incredibly satisfying. They clearly understand what went wrong in Gordias and Midas and I'm confident Omega will be a lot more enjoyable. And honestly if they want to do a Super-Savage version of each final boss of a wing for titles and whatnot, that'd be fine, I think.
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Feb 19, 2017 11:09
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Hooray, I helped make a World Record!
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Feb 19, 2017 11:45
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I wish I'd subbed in 1.0 to contribute to that.  I could've, but I had no faith back then. I LACKED THE FAITH.
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Feb 19, 2017 11:51
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Stormgale posted:The DPS feedback without and explicit parser is interesting, wonder what it will be I'm not sure what problems in the community a parser would cause, when the WoW community seems to handle it just fine.
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Feb 19, 2017 11:55
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