Shadowverse: A Better (Japanese) Hearthstone, Now Out On Steam

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Shadowverse: A Better (Japanese) Hearthstone, Now Out On Steam

«‹›146 »

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

lil baby anime posted:

So I go from thinking d shift is amazing cuz I'm killing people with hamsa combos to 3 games in a row where I don't even draw the loving card til turn 9. This deck is more inconsistent than earth rite

Yeah you can get unlucky sometimes, I've had games where all 3 shifts and all 3 golems were in the bottom 12 cards of the deck, sometimes game is hard

# ? Feb 18, 2017 16:11

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 02:39

Turtle Sandbox: Dec 31, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Sometimes you just never grab your Seraphs, but at least I can try to tutor for it, still not as reliable as goblin mages and fortunehunter feena making sure you grab roaches every single game though, but control decks winning through not waiting until everyone has drawn every card over 30 minutes is nice. Seraph doesn't want you to do poo poo for 9 turns, drawing out being the wincon for HS control decks was infuriating, get rushed down with shamans and pirates in 5 turns or wait to lose unless your opponent counted draw damage wrong.

If your aggro deck hasnt beaten a control deck by turn 9 at least the control decks here win, instead of you telling yourself you can still pull this game out of your rear end even thought the fastest way to climb was to concede when you went too many turns against fatigue unless you wanted to waste 5 games worth of time losing.

Turtle Sandbox fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 18, 2017

# ? Feb 18, 2017 16:29

CompeAnansi: Feb 1, 2011; I respectfully decline
the invitation to join
your hallucination

No Wave posted:

Full face is probably the strongest but I play 2x tia 2x will of the forest 1x pixie mischief because I find having different board control options more fun... might change one of the wills for a maahes or something idk

Anyone have a list for the full face version? I'm new and built roach as my first deck, but from your description it looks like what I put together is a weird hybrid of midrange and aggro.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 17:53

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

lil baby anime posted:

So I go from thinking d shift is amazing cuz I'm killing people with hamsa combos to 3 games in a row where I don't even draw the loving card til turn 9. This deck is more inconsistent than earth rite

If you're not drawing your hamsas on time, you can tutor him out with goblin mage.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 17:55

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

CompeAnansi posted:

Anyone have a list for the full face version? I'm new and built roach as my first deck, but from your description it looks like what I put together is a weird hybrid of midrange and aggro.

Gamepress has a bunch, there aren't really weird hybrids as there are about 34 cards you run no matter what and the last six that you probably wont even need to win most of the time

# ? Feb 18, 2017 17:59

CompeAnansi: Feb 1, 2011; I respectfully decline
the invitation to join
your hallucination

No Wave posted:

Gamepress has a bunch, there aren't really weird hybrids as there are about 34 cards you run no matter what and the last six that you probably wont even need to win most of the time

Ah ok. I made mine based on a couple of the lists there since I don't have full sets of all the golds/legendaries yet.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 18:08

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

CompeAnansi posted:

Anyone have a list for the full face version? I'm new and built roach as my first deck, but from your description it looks like what I put together is a weird hybrid of midrange and aggro.

It's just your regular roach with 2 snipes, 3 birds (or 3 snipes, 2 birds), and one pixie mischief.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 19:43

Retcon: Jun 23, 2010

Turtle Sandbox posted:

Sometimes you just never grab your Seraphs, but at least I can try to tutor for it, still not as reliable as goblin mages and fortunehunter feena making sure you grab roaches every single game though, but control decks winning through not waiting until everyone has drawn every card over 30 minutes is nice. Seraph doesn't want you to do poo poo for 9 turns, drawing out being the wincon for HS control decks was infuriating, get rushed down with shamans and pirates in 5 turns or wait to lose unless your opponent counted draw damage wrong.

If your aggro deck hasnt beaten a control deck by turn 9 at least the control decks here win, instead of you telling yourself you can still pull this game out of your rear end even thought the fastest way to climb was to concede when you went too many turns against fatigue unless you wanted to waste 5 games worth of time losing.

I'm of those people that actually enjoy playing Control matches where your main win condition is to get your opponent to concede, but I get what you're saying. It's nice to be able to play games with D-Shift and Seraph that last less than 15 minutes - Control Blood games can last a bit longer, but most opponents are nice enough to concede when its obvious that there's no chance in hell of them winning. The HS devs seem afraid of printing cards that allow control decks to close out games, so you either fatigue them or try to get them with janky combos like Leeroy+PO+Faceless.

Fatigue in this game also kills you instantly, but the only time I saw that was against Daria players that either really didn't want to concede or didn't check their deck size before playing their third Daria.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 22:41

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Well talking about that I just had a control vs janktrol match.

My guardian haven vs amulet (!) haven. Just clearing all random amulet crap from the summon 3 amulets card took me seven evolves.

We just kept exchanging themises and removal (his from spells, mine from Olivia) until Satan finally appeared in turn 22 or so. Then I crushed his rear end :smugdog:

BTW, His only minions were the priests.

# ? Feb 18, 2017 22:53

Vanilla Mint Ice: Jul 17, 2007; A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

Here's the details of the granblue collab from Feb 23 to March 10: http://gamebiz.jp/?p=178617

5 login rewards: first day olivia emblem, second and third day 50 gold, fourth day RoB card pack, fifth day olivia sleeve

You get an emblem for 3 class wins and the card sleeves for 6 class wins
From left to right top row: forest albert rune dragon shadow
bottom row: blood haven

Bahamut emblem is from winning 10 times and the sleeve is from winning 20 times

Of course private and AI matches don't count for wins

I wish they went a step further and gave us alt art of the cards without actually giving the card

Vanilla Mint Ice fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 19, 2017

# ? Feb 19, 2017 18:46

Tortolia: Dec 29, 2005; Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008; Grimey Drawer

Seems reasonable enough.

# ? Feb 19, 2017 18:50

Drakes: Jul 18, 2007; Why my bullets no hit?

Incorporate the proto baha them from granblue already, go full drat anime already :unsmigghh:

# ? Feb 19, 2017 19:34

Yukari: Feb 17, 2011; "That's going in the cringe reel for sure."

For getting emblems from legendary cards, is the only way to get them via actually pulling the card in a pack? Aka crafting a card doesn't get you the legendary emblem in question, right or wrong?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 08:56

Retcon: Jun 23, 2010

Yukari posted:

For getting emblems from legendary cards, is the only way to get them via actually pulling the card in a pack? Aka crafting a card doesn't get you the legendary emblem in question, right or wrong?

Right. As far as I know, opening the card is the only way to get their emblem.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 09:10

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Fair and balanced

And few people play sword so Daria is the only thing keeping the roaches in check. (gasp!)

# ? Feb 20, 2017 09:28

Yukari: Feb 17, 2011; "That's going in the cringe reel for sure."

Are there any good placeholders for Lucifer/Odin in Dragoncraft Ramp? I don't have any of those but I have 2 Sahaquiels, 2 Bahamuts, Forte, and DAO.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 21:29

AegisP: Oct 5, 2008

Tempo Rune's matchup dropped nearly 4% against Seraph Haven? That's encouraging.

Is that anything that Seraph's doing against it, or just an increase in the decks showing up due to a favourable matchup?

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:21

Turtle Sandbox: Dec 31, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

AegisP posted:

Tempo Rune's matchup dropped nearly 4% against Seraph Haven? That's encouraging.

Is that anything that Seraph's doing against it, or just an increase in the decks showing up due to a favourable matchup?

Seraph had a very slight edge before, maybe its just people teching against it and having more experience against the deck.

I mainly play pure seraph and I used to hate tempo rune but got better at the matchup from playing them for over half of my games.

But when they bounce your aria a turn before it goes off I feel like conceding everytime, gently caress daria.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:45

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Lol, AA0 is chock-full of wallet dragons running a 100% anti-roach deck... that sucks against roach (if they run DoD, or Tia, or homecoming... so all of them?). I have faced it so much I can even build the deck from memory

3 Unicas
3 Ward dragons
3 Goblinmounts
3 Sahas
3 Lucifers
3 Fervors
3 Ivory dragons
3 Dragon warriors
3 Salamanders
3 Oracles
3 Blazing Breath
3 Bahamuts
2 Emissaries
2 Secret Sauce (Urds, owls, Aeila)

When you have to drop forte out of fear of the roach and run urds to... refresh goblin mounts? you know you have a great deck. Seriously, it has zero reach, no genesis dragons, fortes, whatever. Where the hell are they netdecking this poo poo?

e: Note that this is not anti-Daria, since it doesn't run Conflag.

Yukari posted:

Are there any good placeholders for Lucifer/Odin in Dragoncraft Ramp? I don't have any of those but I have 2 Sahaquiels, 2 Bahamuts, Forte, and DAO.

If you run Sahaquiel you have to run at least double the amount of big cards for her to pull (and Odin doesn't really count since he has a bad body) so if you don't have the Lucis you'll do better dropping Sahaquiel from the list and running a more traditional ramp with Genesis dragons, Wyvern cavaliers, such.

trucutru fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 21, 2017

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:52

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

Well, I was halfway right I guess?

Eej posted:

I don't actually care that much about Daria herself, I'd rather they make Levi evo +1/+1 (like every other low cost evo that does Good Stuff) and Piercing Rune be 2 mana instead of 1 cost after something evos. That should cut down the winrate by a few %.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:07

Awesome!: Oct 17, 2008; Ready for adventure!

ok guys easy, now we run roach with no 1 drops either. no problem

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:12

Nages: Dec 31, 2011; Just yell at her like you always do. Bitch, get out of the way!

That's a good change to for Goblin mage but is going to do jack poo poo for Daria so welcome to the more daria meta.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:13

STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS: Oct 12, 2012

no one drops is pretty big for forest, but i'm not sure if it is dead. now it just means it either grab and elf child or a roach in the non-aggro variants.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:14

Awesome!: Oct 17, 2008; Ready for adventure!

i feel like this was probably not the nerf daria needed though

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:16

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

Still wish they nerfed Levi but Piercing Rune to 2 will slow Daria down by a turn or two in a lot of matches.

Also very nice of Cygames to give full dust on Feena even though she wasn't directly changed.

e: full text of their nerf discussion https://shadowverse.com/news/important/news-0073

quote:

In anticipation of the upcoming February update, we�d like to take this opportunity to outline a few card changes we will be implementing and our reasoning behind them.

Summary

1. Piercing Rune (Runecraft spell): If an allied follower evolves, change the cost of this card to 2 (previously 1).
2. Goblin Mage (Neutral follower): Put a random follower that costs 2 play points or less (previously 2 play points) from your deck into your hand.

Coinciding with these changes, liquefying Piercing Rune, Goblin Mage, and Fortunehunter Feena will yield more vials for a limited time after the update is released. Due to Fortunehunter Feena�s mechanic to add a Goblin Mage to your hand after evolving, we�ve decided to make it worth more vials even though no changes will be made to the card itself.

Details

Runecraft has been the predominant class since the release of the Rise of Bahamut card expansion. Decks based around Daria, Dimensional Witch (Daria Tempo Runecraft below) are still a dominating presence in Tier 1 (the top tier of decks).

In addition, Runecraft has a number of other Daria-based decks in the Tier 1 to Tier 2 range. These include decks that use Dimension Shift (D-Shift Runecraft below) and decks that use Earth Rite effects (Earth Rite Runecraft below). Here are the usage rates of these decks according to our most recent analysis of top-ranked players (taken in the second weekend of February from high-ranked matches):

Daria Tempo Runecraft 19%
D-Shift Runecraft 10%
Earth Rite Runecraft 3%

Altogether, Runecraft accounts for 32% of decks in play. This led us to pursue changes to help address this issue.

In our analysis we also discovered an extremely large difference in current Runecraft win rates depending on who takes the first turn. Of course decks that favor going first or second are bound to appear; however, if the difference in win rate is too severe, the game shifts towards matches being decided more by random chance than by player choice.

To summarize, there are two issues that currently need to be addressed in the Runecraft class:

1. When all of the variations are tallied together, there is very high Runecraft deck usage.
2. The win rate for Runecraft decks is highly influenced by turn order.

We felt that a change to Piercing Rune was appropriate to counter both the high prevalence of Runecraft decks and the influence of turn order for three reasons:

1. Two to three copies of the card are included in all three of the top Runecraft decks.
2. The advantage this card confers to players who start second becomes even more pronounced when an allied follower evolves.
3. The cost of this card is low relative to the power of its effect.

Here is the specific change:

Old: If an allied follower evolves, change the cost of this card to 1.
New: If an allied follower evolves, change the cost of this card to 2

We expect the usage and win rates of Runecraft decks to fall in line with other classes after these changes, but we expect that another current Tier 1 deck will dominate as a result. Specifically, Roach Tempo Forestcraft (below), a combo deck which focuses on amassing a massive hand via cards like Goblin Mage and Rhinoceroach, is the primary check to (and the most played deck after) Daria Tempo Runecraft. According to our analysis, Roach Tempo Forestcraft had an even higher win rate than Daria Tempo Runecraft. For these reasons we�ve targeted one of its core cards, Goblin Mage, with some changes.

Goblin Mage has become a staple in many decks since the introduction of the Rise of Bahamut expansion; it can be played with little repercussion�playing it doesn�t reduce the size of your hand, and can be played on its own merit. It also allows you to include a specific, powerful 2-play point card when deck-building.

While other classes include Goblin Mage in their decks, the inclusion of this card is especially noticeable in the Tier 1 deck, Roach Tempo Forestcraft. One reason for this is that Forestcraft is abundant with useful 1-play point followers, ensuring a strong early curve. Roach Tempo Forestcraft can effectively ignore the inherent downside to Goblin Mage when deck-building, thanks to the standard inclusion of valuable, low-cost cards.

We believe that the changes to Goblin Mage (detailed below) will allow it to continue functioning as a powerful card that lets players include a specific 2-play point card while also keeping Roach Tempo Forestcraft balanced.

Old: Put a random 2-play point follower from your deck into your hand.
New: Put a random follower that costs 2 play points or less from your deck into your hand.

Temporary Vial Bonus

We will compensate for the above changes by increasing the number of vials you receive for liquefying Piercing Rune, Fortunehunter Feena, or Goblin Mage.

Vials obtained from liquefying Piercing Rune and Fortunehunter Feena will be increased from 50 to 200 for a normal card and from 120 to 200 for an animated card.

Vials obtained from liquefying Goblin Mage will increase from 10 to 50 for a normal card and from 30 to 50 for an animated card.

Note that Fortunehunter Feena itself will not be changed. We have increased the number of vials this card yields because its mechanics are heavily related to Goblin Mage.

This compensation will be available from the end-of-February update until the next major update. After this period the number of vials received will revert to normal. We will follow up with details in the future.

We will continue to analyze players� match data in order to ensure game balance, and we will adjust card abilities when necessary. In such cases, users will be notified in advance and compensated with vials for liquefying affected cards.

Thank you for continuing to thwart the forces of darkness with us!

Shadowverse Team

Eej fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 21, 2017

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:20

Emalde: May 3, 2007; Just a cage of bones, there's nothing inside.

What kinds of decks does Feena feature in outside of Roach? As a poverty-tier player who can barely scrape up dailies on the regular, i have 3 feenas sitting around waiting to become 600 vials for my troubles :v:

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:45

Awesome!: Oct 17, 2008; Ready for adventure!

i dont think feena is really used in much else right now

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:51

STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS: Oct 12, 2012

pretty much nothing? i know the midrange blood list me and nehru where throwing back and forth earlier in the thread ended up running them, but that deck is pretty dead imo

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:52

Cinnamon Bear: Aug 29, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

But she's beautiful, powerful, and cute to boot???

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:52

Nages: Dec 31, 2011; Just yell at her like you always do. Bitch, get out of the way!

She's not a bad card, basically gets +3/3 on evolve spread over two bodies and will draw you a 1 or 2 drop. She can be used otk dragon or aggro decks where you are worried about running out of steam too quickly.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 04:57

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

quote:

� A message window in the upper-right displaying your opponent�s class when redrawing cards

Ah, the Street Fighter notification window.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 05:06

Vanilla Mint Ice: Jul 17, 2007; A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

Nooooooooooooooo dragonewt otk is nerfed noooooooooooooooooo

# ? Feb 21, 2017 05:25

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

You can cut Ivory Dragons just fine though.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 05:32

Vanilla Mint Ice: Jul 17, 2007; A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

Cutting ivory is going to hurt it pretty bad tho, like atleast ~3% drop but my heart is telling me it's >5%

# ? Feb 21, 2017 05:38

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Ok, I guess I'll go back to roach for a final week of debauchery.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 05:54

Yukari: Feb 17, 2011; "That's going in the cringe reel for sure."

Well, how hard does that hit roach? Does it just make it less consistent?

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:00

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Yukari posted:

Well, how hard does that hit roach? Does it just make it less consistent?

It means that in order to function they'd have to take out the good 1 cost cards that make forest generally playable.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:04

Nehru the Damaja: May 20, 2005

STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS posted:

pretty much nothing? i know the midrange blood list me and nehru where throwing back and forth earlier in the thread ended up running them, but that deck is pretty dead imo

Might be a thing again with Forest taking a hit like that. It was a good deck vs. Daria. It was mostly the burst from Sword and Forest that made it non-viable. I guess it remains to be seen how much Daria is in the meta. If face Sword just picks up a big portion of the meta in response, though, mid-blood's self damage is still probably gonna keep it dead.

Also I never really ran into Concede Haven at the time -- maybe that grinds you out.

Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Feb 21, 2017

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:07

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

The main thing that the Minigobbu nerf hits is OTK Roach. All the other Roach decks will work fine but they are obviously not as gross as the combo variant.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:19

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 02:39

Yukari: Feb 17, 2011; "That's going in the cringe reel for sure."

Eej posted:

The main thing that the Minigobbu nerf hits is OTK Roach. All the other Roach decks will work fine but they are obviously not as gross as the combo variant.

Guess we'll have to go to playing the midrange/control Roach decks then instead or something.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Shadowverse: A Better (Japanese) Hearthstone, Now Out On Steam

«‹›146 »