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Alhazred posted:It also have the best line of all the X-Men movies. You know the one. "What happens to a toad that gets hit by lightning?"
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Feb 19, 2017 13:19
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starkebn posted:"What happens to a toad that gets hit by lightning?" Throg: Origins
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Feb 19, 2017 13:48
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UmOk posted:Explain Marvel films tend to deploy non-jokes as an ersatz laugh track. This can undermine even the handful of actual jokes on the films: Zoe Saldana: Your ship is filthy. Quill: Oh, she has no idea. If I had a blacklight, this would look like a Jackson Pollock painting. Raccoon: You got issues, Quill. The Jackson Pollock joke is a good one because it cements Quill as a Captain Kirk sort of figure (or, rather, a person self-consciously trying to model himself after such a pulp hero) who takes pride in the number of different aliens he's hosed. This reflects the overall narrative that these ostensibly 'filthy' criminals actually slot in perfectly - pose no challenge to - the distinctly Trek-like Federation. All the potty-mouth is a distraction from the fundamental safeness of the film. The non-joke is that last line from the raccoon. He's saying "you got issues", and that's funny because it's a snarky thing to say! But it's not actually funny; it's just exposition. The raccoon is explaining that Quill just told a dirty joke. He's explaining that Quill has issues stemming from the death of his mom. It's a laugh track / groan track. A pause in the film to let the audience laugh or groan. This punching-up is obviously forced, because how does Rocket know about Jackson Pollock and American pulp scifi? Or is the non-joke that Rocket doesn't like sex? Does Rocket even know Quill well enough at this point to comment on his 'issues'?
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Feb 19, 2017 16:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-zYoocu2Jo Looks nice but it still baffles me they intend to pit this Kong against Godzilla. EDIT: https://twitter.com/4eyedRaven/status/833197046022565889 
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Feb 19, 2017 16:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Marvel films tend to deploy non-jokes as an ersatz laugh track. This can undermine even the handful of actual jokes on the films: Rocket said that because Quill just told him there is cum everywhere.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:37
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Neo Rasa posted:For real though Jackman's casting was weird in retrospect. Every other rumor, list, whatever had them going for a short stocky dude. It's interesting how they went in like the total opposite direction with their final choice. But with eash passing movie he gets more and more like comic Wolverine, it's cool. Aesthetically they knew what was up though, movie X-Men Wolverine is like an exact character design from the year 2000 and ended up being an inspired choice. Remember, Jackman wasn't even the original choice, and we have John Woo to thank for it: Because Mission: Impossible 2's shooting ran several weeks long, Dougray Scott was stuck in Australia and couldn't report to Ontario on time for filming, so they had to call in Jackman at the last minute. LesterGroans posted:the finale has kind of looped around to being interesting and quaint compared to 15 years of world-ending Blue Sky Lasers. Yeah, it doesn't even feel like it's in the same series as stuff like Apocalypse. Timby fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 17:40
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Grendels Dad posted:Rocket said that because Quill just told him there is cum everywhere. Very good! That is literally what happened in the plot of the movie, as recapped at the start of my post. The point, however, is that plot exposition and jokes are different. Exposition can tell you something is 'supposed to be' funny, but it is not itself actually funny.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:58
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Grendels Dad posted:Rocket said that because Quill just told him there is cum everywhere. There is no particular reason for Rocket to get that out of what StarLord said though, it basically ruins the entire joke as soon as the initial chuckle is over.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:06
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:There is no particular reason for Rocket to get that out of what StarLord said though
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Feb 19, 2017 18:12
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Technically, wouldn't Rocket Racoon be the closest to a blood relative of Quill of the whole cast? They're both transplanted mammals from Earth. e: the redemptive reading here is that Rocket is a more honest reflection of Quill's mutilated psyche and is actually just clarifying that Quill is admitting that he's even more hosed up than he appears on the surface. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 18:23
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Comic Book Movie Megathread: Is Jizz Funny?
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Feb 19, 2017 18:36
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Yeah in retrospect a space alien not understanding the reference would be a funnier (or actual) joke, and it's a super obvious setup. This just sets a snarky tone.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:51
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What's not to understand though? A woman says your place is filthy and you nudge the guy next to you in the ribs and waggle your eyebrows, I'm sure we've all been there. Also, would the target audience of the movie know more about Pollock than a space raccoon?
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Feb 19, 2017 18:57
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Grendels Dad posted:What's not to understand though? A woman says your place is filthy and you nudge the guy next to you in the ribs and waggle your eyebrows, I'm sure we've all been there. Also, would the target audience of the movie know more about Pollock than a space raccoon? Would an elementary student know anything about Pollock?
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Feb 19, 2017 19:01
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Putting jokes on top of jokes do not make either funnier. See: the first season of MST3K.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:06
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Grendels Dad posted:Also, would the target audience of the movie know more about Pollock than a space raccoon? Wait, what? Is your argument that the "target audience" doesn't get the reference? Wouldn't that make it an even worse joke? If the filmmakers thought nobody would understand the reference they would have used a different and better reference. A space raccoon should know nothing about a painter from Earth that died 60 years ago. This is not to say that it's completely incomprehensible but "you've got issues" still isn't as funny as a number of actual jokes they could've done.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:09
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The problem isn't that Rocket shouldn't know who Pollock is, the problem is that his "joke" is lame and unnecessary.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:13
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah in retrospect a space alien not understanding the reference would be a funnier (or actual) joke, and it's a super obvious setup. This just sets a snarky tone. This also happens later when Quill brings up the Ark of the Covenant when someone in the group asks about their MacGuffin orb thingie and nobody goes "I have no idea what you're talking about". The reference itself is bad enough, since it's saying "hey look we have a godlike power thingie that some bad guys want, just like that movie!", but that it just lets the fabric of the fiction break without comment - absolutely nobody else on that ship would have any idea about what Indiana Jones or ancient Biblical mythology is and one of them, if he even knows what an ark is, probably thinks of it as a giant boat - is this weird, profoundly irritating thing to me. Gunn has admitted that he handed off his draft to Marvel and they rewrote it a bit during the pre-production process (he brought this up when Wright left Ant-Man after Marvel took his final polish and rewrote it, phrasing it as just a part of working on something this big), so it wouldn't surprise me if the most referential joke he had in there originally was the Kevin Bacon joke, since it's got a clear setup and payoff scattered across about an hour of the movie, it got laughs at table reads, and Feige or someone said "put more referential stuff in there, it plays gangbusters" and we ended up with weird one-offs that ignore that Quill and everyone else have gigantically different backgrounds and that talking about Jackson Pollack and Raiders of the Lost Ark a million miles from Earth would be like speaking Chinese to a lost African tribe. It smacks of real lazy screenwriting, one way or another. It's tucking exposition - repetitious exposition at that, since the movie at that point has told and shown us more than enough about how powerful the Gem is and that Quill is a man child whose development as a person was arrested in 1988 when he got abducted - into a reference to another (better) movie solely for the sake of the audience. It's a loving DreamWorks joke. Edit: oh god it's even worse, he also references the Maltese Falcon and this follows Rocket actually asking what a raccoon is. I forgot how early it actually happens in the movie, though, but the movie's already intimated how dangerous this ball they were all scrambling around was with the Ronan introduction. The Cameo fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 19:22
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah in retrospect a space alien not understanding the reference would be a funnier (or actual) joke, and it's a super obvious setup. This just sets a snarky tone. I'm enjoying the direction this conversation is going because it's implying that the production of Guardians of the Glaaxy didn't take into account how funny an alien not understanding earth metaphors can be with the right writing and delivery. 
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Feb 19, 2017 19:27
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LesterGroans posted:The problem isn't that Rocket shouldn't know who Pollock is, the problem is that his "joke" is lame and unnecessary. Well, really, it's both. The joke is lame and uneccessary, but the result is that Hodgepodge is right: because the joke is unnecessary, Rocket is reduced to a mere extension of Quill's character. The Rocket character stops making sense as a distinct individual, which pushes the film into a lame 'it's all in Quill's head' narrative. See also how the tattoo guy understands figures of speech whenever it's narratively convenient.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:31
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-zYoocu2Jo He looks so old. I hope he takes a break soon. 
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Feb 19, 2017 19:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well, really, it's both. It is odd that they have a perfectly good setup for jokes and they don't take advantage of it at all. Why wouldn't they play off the fact that no one would get his pop culture references?
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Feb 19, 2017 19:42
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"What the hell is a Jackson Pollock?" "Well, he's this guy on earth, who made splatter paintings..." "???" "I'm talking about my jizz, Rocket! My JIZZZ ON THE WALLS!" "I'm not a fan of Jizz. It's just noise"
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Feb 19, 2017 19:47
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Neo Rasa posted:I'm enjoying the direction this conversation is going because it's implying that the production of Guardians of the Glaaxy didn't take into account how funny an alien not understanding earth metaphors can be with the right writing and delivery. bringing up drax kinda underlines the point actually; 'not getting poo poo' is his one comedic gimmick so all the other aliens do get rando earth references(or at least don't make note of it) because otherwise they'd be stepping on drax's Thing
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Feb 19, 2017 19:48
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Rocket already did not know what a raccoon was. He might not know who Pollock is either, the joke is that Starlord's horniness transcends cultural borders.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:56
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Okay so NOW the joke is bad and hurts the entire movie because aliens DO get the joke. Got it.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:56
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Neo Rasa posted:Okay so NOW the joke is bad and hurts the entire movie because aliens DO get the joke. Got it. They get the joke although they might not get the reference.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:59
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Grendels Dad posted:It's time for Image Comics to find the happy balance between the two and make all the money in the world. VALIAAAANT ...and their loaded Chinese backers
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Feb 19, 2017 19:59
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Neo Rasa posted:Okay so NOW the joke is bad and hurts the entire movie because aliens DO get the joke. Got it. uhhhhhh what? I think you might be projecting here, people are just using it as an example of a bad joke
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Feb 19, 2017 20:01
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I don't think it's one joke falling flat that brings down the film, so much that the manner of the joke betrays a lack of confidence on behalf of the screenwriters/the director/the studio (circle one) and that can bring down the film. If it seems that even the people creating the film don't have faith in it, the audience has less incentive to approach it sincerely. Edit: this is not a criticism of Guardians of the Galaxy alone. Most Marvel films seems to lean heavily on irony to encourage the audience away from investing themselves too deeply into their films. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 20:05
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Guy A. Person posted:uhhhhhh what? On this page so far we've seen that it indicates to the audience they should have no faith in the movie because the writers obviously didn't, and also that it makes it impossible for Rocket to be a unique character from Quill.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:07
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Using emotions to heighten other emotions isn't a new concept created by Marvel Studios. You bring someone way down, and then boost them way up. It works really well, and helps keep the audience engaged, emotionally in what's happening. Like, that joke in BvS (He's a friend of mine. I kinda figured!) works only because it comes directly after a very intense action sequence. The emotional high of the scene counter balances with the joke and it does work. If that joke came during a lesser sequence, it wouldn't have landed. I dunno, this discussion is lame because feeling things in movies is real good.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:14
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CelticPredator posted:Using emotions to heighten other emotions isn't a new concept created by Marvel Studios. You bring someone way down, and then boost them way up. It works really well, and helps keep the audience engaged, emotionally in what's happening. This is really hilarious. You might as well start talking about how GotG ideally provides 100 c of Trazotine with minimal risk of emotional overdose. Or how it provides bellyfeel. Oldthinkers unbellyfeel Marvel.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is really hilarious. You might as well start talking about how GotG ideally provides 100 c of Trazotine with minimal risk of emotional overdose. Or how it provides bellyfeel. Hey you know what, I made you feel something. So that's good and cool.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:50
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CelticPredator posted:Using emotions to heighten other emotions isn't a new concept created by Marvel Studios. You bring someone way down, and then boost them way up. It works really well, and helps keep the audience engaged, emotionally in what's happening. No one is arguing that Marvel movies are making audiences feel things and that's bad. Rather, the argument is that Marvel movies are purposely encouraging audiences not to feel. Regardless of if that's good or bad, it's weak. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 20:54
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Neo Rasa posted:On this page so far we've seen that it indicates to the audience they should have no faith in the movie because the writers obviously didn't, and also that it makes it impossible for Rocket to be a unique character from Quill. No we haven't
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Feb 19, 2017 20:55
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But they do though. That Doctor Strange death scene was really well done, and just because there was a silly moment afterwards, didn't destroy the one before it.
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Feb 19, 2017 20:56
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Marvel movie-makers do try to make people feel things. It just ends up manipulative like a slick marketing effort. GotG itself is an approximation of cosmopolitan Eurocomics without their sophistication, so their skepticism is reduced to hollow sarcasm and their universality into empty sentimentality. The Eurocomics that GotG (indirectly) approximates favour a cool, level-headed approach. This is why GotG never surpasses it's superior comic book movie predecessor, Fifth Element.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:01
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Films are lies.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:02
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CelticPredator posted:But they do though. That Doctor Strange death scene was really well done, and just because there was a silly moment afterwards, didn't destroy the one before it. i mean it doesn't 'destroy' it but it shows how quickly the movie is ready to move on from the perfunctory mourning of the mentor character to get back into Laugh Mode the ancient one's death scene is good in a vacuum but the movie surrounding it gives it short shrift and that's a bummer
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Feb 19, 2017 21:02
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