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I really want a skylines 2 now. I see it as a glorified puzzle game where you build a city as large as you can without traffic choking it to death. Or I guess the opposite is true, where you load up an old map and fix horrendous traffic conditions. But I still occasionally go back to SC4 because somehow the 14 year old game still has nice visuals and a zillion ways to personalize a city (with mods to be fair). but yea, traffic model good. blandish graphics...not so good?
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Feb 20, 2017 00:43
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buglord posted:I really want a skylines 2 now. I see it as a glorified puzzle game where you build a city as large as you can without traffic choking it to death. Or I guess the opposite is true, where you load up an old map and fix horrendous traffic conditions. But I still occasionally go back to SC4 because somehow the 14 year old game still has nice visuals and a zillion ways to personalize a city (with mods to be fair). Just have a gander at the recent top posts on the game's subreddit and you'll find that, with the right mods and settings, the game can manage to look pretty incredible.
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Feb 20, 2017 00:58
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With the right settings and daylight and camera angle and mods Cities:Skylines can look absolutely gorgeous and stunning. This thread has had a few screenshots that were amazing in the past. Still it'd be pretty cool to have a nicer looking game with a more modern render out-of-the-box.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:43
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Elentor posted:With the right settings and daylight and camera angle and mods Cities:Skylines can look absolutely gorgeous and stunning. This thread has had a few screenshots that were amazing in the past. Every youtube video I see of the game makes it look absolutely stunning and realistic, but I have yet to find the right combination of mods and settings to reproduce that in my own gameplay. It seems to do real well visually when you have a 4K monitor (I don't) and a PC that can run it at ultra settings, but I guess that's true of every game. Last I played a city builder was probably 15yrs ago, so jumping into this was a huge step up from the old SimCity games.
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Feb 20, 2017 02:00
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Doesn't the XBox One have mouse/kb support now? That could work for people with weak laptops who want to play.
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Feb 20, 2017 04:09
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turn off the TV posted:Just have a gander at the recent top posts on the game's subreddit and you'll find that, with the right mods and settings, the game can manage to look pretty incredible.
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Feb 20, 2017 07:37
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Modern real-time 3D can do stupidly good stuff for city rendering that would vastly surpass SC4. I don't think we will see it anytime soon though.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:29
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Most of the fancy stuff isn't yet scaleable to real-time content like player-placed buildings. A lot of the really fancy lighting in games is still baked in, for example.
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Feb 20, 2017 19:37
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buglord posted:Yeah I'm well aware it can look nice. But it would be nicer to have that prettiness baked in. Honestly though, I dunno if real 3D has a leg up over the pre-rendered house models yet. It seems like less artist/modder work to do that instead of actual 3D buildings. I guess what I'm trying to say is, despite me wanting Skylines 2, I don't think the technology is there yet to have as much visual detail and unique elements to make it as varied as SC4. Something about SC4's prop engine (and more sensible handling of wealth levels) still gives that game a wicked leg up on giving cities and areas within cities definite personalities. You could build a straight-up slum no problem, get all bonsai with each little area and it somehow seems more alive to me than C:S does. I would kill for a sensible mashup of the two.
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Feb 21, 2017 04:00
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Paradox has set up a survey about the game that covers some good ground. https://www.surveymonkey.com/survey-taken/?sm=Qb2W9ha15U_2BwteIwibe82ConPIwlBEpDUkKKLcNFVsEiBqIQ8avBh6iCYkgiRlrbr36fjG21MoaKXhtqRirX5g_3D_3D
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Feb 23, 2017 00:33
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That link says the survey was taken.
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Feb 23, 2017 05:58
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"We call on ALL of our citizens to help us become better at what we do! Please help us out by completing this survey! https://t.co/BYVGtTP9i5" If that doesn't work try this:https://twitter.com/Cities_PDX/status/834432666288128005 I suggested a more robust economic simulation and separation of wealth and density.
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Feb 23, 2017 06:07
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Glad they put out a survey. Do they ever do blog posts or something discussing the survey results? I'd imagine people answered similarly, but would love to see new suggestions and hear what Paradox got out of it.
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Feb 23, 2017 08:20
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If Paradox is the one putting out the survey, maybe they'll drop CO and bring on a more sophisticated developer...? Probably not though, I suspect that Paradox is too loyal.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:41
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Mandalay posted:If Paradox is the one putting out the survey, maybe they'll drop CO and bring on a more sophisticated developer...? This is brutal and nasty and CO probably retains a lot of legal/contractual rights to their game but I'd love it.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:00
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Mandalay posted:If Paradox is the one putting out the survey, maybe they'll drop CO and bring on a more sophisticated developer...? Why would/should CO be tossed off the product they made and brought to market?
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Feb 23, 2017 19:06
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Yeah that seems... needlessly lovely. Just ask them to focus on different things, they have made other games before this one... As I put on the survey, the game is not even remotely bad by any sane definition, its problem is that it clearly has potential to be a lot more crunchy than it is, and that nags at you if you want that. A game should not be considered bad because it's good enough that you want it to be substantially expanded. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 19:16
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Why would/should CO be tossed off the product they made and brought to market? Because they've served their purpose birthing the game but seem really bad at continuing to develop it and maybe need some fresh blood (or some more direct guidance from paradox). Paradox is generally pro at this and massively improve and change their games with DLC after release. They aren't afraid to gut existing systems that aren't working so well and are good at taking in what the fans say they want, then translating that into good game improvements. CO seems hyper-conservative about touching existing mechanics and keep adding mostly useless fluff on top based on random poo poo they think the fans want, but without really integrating the mechanics into the game in a meaningful way. Look at entertainment and hotel zones, they do gently caress all, it's just commercial with different graphics and a city without either functions just as well. When paradox adds new mechanics they actually integrate them into the base game as a free update, and give higher levels of detail/control via the paid DLC. CO just doesn't have experience or a good philosophy with this sort of model. Look at the expansion coming for Stellaris, they're gutting huge swaths of the game and replacing them with better mechanics. They're very aware at other flawed systems and are looking forward to gutting them too. If someone like Wiz was incharge of skylines we'd all be reading weekly dev diaries about how he's totally redesigning the zoning system, introducing more variable densities, and totally scrapping the level system to instead be replaced with a wealth system to go along with the new economic DLC that adds some new resources and huge upgradable specialty industries to the game. We'd be reading about the new code they're working on for dynamic farm-field generation and how they've turned the industrial "specialties" into their own zones and cleaning up the interface. We'd be reading about how they hired Bloody Penguin and have him working on the new transit DLC which is going to vanilla implement metro overhaul and per-line per-vehicle control of transit with multiple vehicle types and expanded transit related AI. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 19:32
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The entertainment/hotel zones kinda confused me tbh because that seemed like a perfect opportunity to improve and integrate the tourism system and make it so that you actually have to think about proper lodging/parking/entertainment for tourists and incoming transit lines etc. but in the end it's basically what Baronjutter said. At least they bumped of the amount of tourists you get (right?) but it is still a pretty dismal number and either way it's kind of just another number on a graph that you can't really interact with. I don't think they should be tossed off their own game by any means but if Paradox can give them some guidance that'd be pretty cool. I got the Snowfall DLC but I still have yet to make a winter map just because man I don't want to make a specific winter map. Would have preferred seasons, even if it does require some code rejiggering. Missed opportunity for some weather stuff in general imo; would have been cool to see heavy rains flooding out questionably placed canals or poop dams for example. They have this pretty cool flowing water system but it seems like nothing much is really done with it aside from dams. OwlFancier posted:As I put on the survey, the game is not even remotely bad by any sane definition, its problem is that it clearly has potential to be a lot more crunchy than it is, and that nags at you if you want that. A game should not be considered bad because it's good enough that you want it to be substantially expanded. I agree with this too. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 19:43
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Moridin920 posted:The entertainment/hotel zones kinda confused me tbh because that seemed like a perfect opportunity to improve and integrate the tourism system and make it so that you actually have to think about proper lodging/parking/entertainment for tourists and incoming transit lines etc. but in the end it's basically what Baronjutter said. At least they bumped of the amount of tourists you get (right?) but it is still a pretty dismal number and either way it's kind of just another number on a graph that you can't really interact with. Rush Hour actually makes tourists spend the night in tourism zoned buildings, increasing the amount of time they stick around in your city.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:47
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I wonder if this survey might have been spurred by weak sales of the latest expansion? The expansions have gotten steadily less interesting and it wouldn't shock me if they've sold steadily worse as well. Not that anything in After Dark was that exciting or well-executed, but at least it had a sprinkling of decent features (better bike stuff, better port, two new zone types even if they are just eye candy, handful of buildings etc.), as compared to Snowfall's one (trams) and Natural Disasters' none.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:28
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That was my feeling as well, and reflected in my response to the survey. After Dark had bikes, which weren't really all that different than pedestrian walkways, but still worth getting, and the After Dark stuff was a nice little side bonus, and Snowfall had trams, and I wanted trams, but the implementation of trams is kinda disappointing and the winter map stuff just kinda sucks. And then.. the newest DLC was so uninteresting I don't even remember what it's called.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:38
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PDS games, good and bad, have been getting similar surveys. Probably just the PI producer and/or the Colossal Order head got slapped around a bit at yearly reviews and asked why they aren't doing more outreach. So a little of holy crap DLC sales bad, a little bringing in line with the golden children over at PDS.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:44
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The game is so drat shallow. Not simcity2013 shallow thankfully but it's not very impressive. But I am very glad I don't have to do any pointless crap like fiddling with sliders in Sim City 4 or replacing water pumps in Sim City 3000. Want to play the snow islands map without snow? Get a mod. Want to build the parks added with the Europe theme in the default theme? Get a mod. Is it even possible to do a proper Y-split of a road with mods? And not get a big ugly rectangular blob intersection.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:50
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hailthefish posted:That was my feeling as well, and reflected in my response to the survey. After Dark had bikes, which weren't really all that different than pedestrian walkways, but still worth getting, and the After Dark stuff was a nice little side bonus, and Snowfall had trams, and I wanted trams, but the implementation of trams is kinda disappointing and the winter map stuff just kinda sucks. And then.. the newest DLC was so uninteresting I don't even remember what it's called. Natural Disasters is the newest DLC, which has some cool stuff in it like helicopters and the ability to move fresh water around your city. It also introduces a new system for dealing with collapsed buildings where, instead of being bulldozed, they can be repaired by disaster response units and respawn with their old model and level. Some of the disasters are cool, I enjoy the tsunamis, thunderstorms and forest fires. My biggest complaint is that most of the disasters deform terrain, which destroys roads, which means you need to go back and fill in whatever holes have shown up and rebuild roads, which is just tedious. They also missed a huge opportunity by not implementing floods, which could be a lot of fun on well made maps. Overall I'd probably say that ND is better than After Dark by virtue of having systems and mechanics that actually impact the simulation in a unique way, instead of adding new zone types that are completely meaningless.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:16
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CO's consistent stance on questions about a deeper simulation is "never going to happen because performance reasons, we don't want the game to require a high end machine." (Which probably largely translates to "we don't want the game to be hard to port to consoles.") Paradox has seemed to be on board with this philosophy, which seems odd because Paradox has never really been shy about responding to performance complaints about EU4 or CK2 with "get a better computer." CO's philosophy is that they basically want the game to work right out of the box on a mediocre computer and be newbie-friendly, and power users can and will mod the hell out of the game to get what they want so as long as the game's open to modding there's no ROI (or negative ROI, if it makes the game too newbie-unfriendly) on spending dev time on that stuff. It's probably the right philosophy for maximizing profit. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 03:14
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Eric the Mauve posted:Paradox has seemed to be on board with this philosophy, which seems odd because Paradox has never really been shy about responding to performance complaints about EU4 or CK2 with "get a better computer."
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Feb 24, 2017 03:28
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The minimum specs, yes. But for CK2 at least if you want to run it at any kind of decent speed then you need a pretty modern processor. But as you say, those are very very different games from C:S.
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Feb 24, 2017 03:30
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In my completely unfounded and layman opinion, the deeper simulation holds water for traffic, because the traffic mods run like garbage. But its BS for a new civics model because it can and should replace the current civics model. And the civics are seemingly hard to mod because there just isn't the backbone to tweak and branch off. If there's an expansion the game desperately needs its putting in that groundwork. I can also see why they'd be wary because that would honestly be close to a Skylines 2 in content and effort. To throw them a bone it doesn't even need to be real fancy SimCity 4 civics. As it is, the traffic agent model has all the underpinnings needed to make an Impressions style civic model but it never does anything besides roamers and fluff.
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Feb 24, 2017 03:43
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The traffic mods work fine for me in my ~100k city so far but I've also got a fairly beefy processor. Got the "never disappear cars" and realistic parking stuff all turned on, too.Poil posted:Is it even possible to do a proper Y-split of a road with mods? And not get a big ugly rectangular blob intersection. Yeah, you can do it.
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Feb 24, 2017 17:52
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Moridin920 posted:The traffic mods work fine for me in my ~100k city so far but I've also got a fairly beefy processor. Got the "never disappear cars" and realistic parking stuff all turned on, too. I get "slowdowns" after about 25-50k pop with Traffic Manger: President Edition enabled. Frame rate drops to about 30 FPS which is still perfectly playable. I have an i5 6600k overclocked to about 4.2 GHz.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:18
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bigmandan posted:I get "slowdowns" after about 25-50k pop with Traffic Manger: President Edition enabled. Frame rate drops to about 30 FPS which is still perfectly playable. I have an i5 6600k overclocked to about 4.2 GHz. What all features of the mod are you using? You can turn off the enhanced AI and, from what I understand, it should have little performance impact.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:18
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I have a ridiculous poo poo ton of major gameplay mods and insane number of assets, running on a 2+ year old $800 computer on full lovely graphics and never noticed any frame rate issues. Sure "fast" speed doesn't seem as fast anymore, but the game itself is perfectly smooth even at 400k+. Some of the more spergy traffic mods can really bite into that though and I honestly haven't been able to tell much difference between the super realistic improved traffic AI's and vanilla's or the more "lite" versions like traffic president's more minor improvements. Also just lol if your city relies on cars to get around anyways.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:25
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turn off the TV posted:What all features of the mod are you using? You can turn off the enhanced AI and, from what I understand, it should have little performance impact. Yeah I'm playing with the advanced AI and Very High simulation. I don't mind too much of a performance loss if it means the "accuracy" of the simulation is better. But thanks for the tip! I'll play around with the settings to find a happy medium.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:40
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bigmandan posted:I get "slowdowns" after about 25-50k pop with Traffic Manger: President Edition enabled. Frame rate drops to about 30 FPS which is still perfectly playable. I have an i5 6600k overclocked to about 4.2 GHz. Not sure what my FPS is but I have a i7 4790k on its stock clockspeed so yours should edge mine out I think. The fastest speed is definitely not as fast as it was at 100k+ but it the game itself is still smooth for me and I'm usually really picky about that. Not 100% sure what my mod settings are but I know I turned off a couple of the big performance eater options iirc. I guess if they made the sim more robust it might be way worse though fair enough... but maybe there is some optimization that could be done as well (wild speculation on my part obv)? Probably also depends a lot on the mod buildings and their textures too. I try to skip over stuff that has a lot of tris or is a large filesize. Esp if it is a growable that will be repeating all over the place - I'm more lenient with one off monument/special style buildings e: There is a bit of FPS stutter a couple minutes after loading but it goes away, not sure what's up with that. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 22:51
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Making the simulation deeper shouldn't really tax machines too heavily. Sim City 4 had a lot more depth than Cities Skylines and that game is over a decade old. I think the major performance hog is the agent simulation, which I'm fine with CO ignoring.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:53
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Latest CO word of the week dropped, apparently they'll be showing some new stuff off next week at GDC. Inshallah it won't be terrible?
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Feb 24, 2017 23:27
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Bold Robot posted:Latest CO word of the week dropped, apparently they'll be showing some new stuff off next week at GDC. Inshallah it won't be terrible? Being fair it's very unlikely to be terrible, at worst it would be something decent that many of us aren't particularly interested in.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:40
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It's nasty but what I think it mostly comes down to is that CO isn't a very experienced dev outfit, their previous games were very hit and miss and they learned some incorrect lessons that made them extremely gunshy about "detail". They've managed to make a very successful game but don't quite seem to grasp the things a lot of people who play it enjoy and want more of and are scared of ruining it because they don't fully understand what made it good or popular in the first place. When you hear Wiz or someone else at paradox talk about their games they can be very critical of existing mechanics, but they have long term visions for how to improve the game's flaws and build on the things people love. They also seem to really "get" their own games the same way their fans do, both the mechanics and what's fun. Then you have the head of CO saying something like "to me the game is just about maximizing your income. I don't care about aesthetics it's just a puzzle to optimize your profits and I don't understand how people play it otherwise but I guess they do??" while blankly staring finnishly through the camera.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:43
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A puzzle to optimize profits isn't exactly divorced from needing a new civics model. Its kind of the entire point there. Aesthetic focused bonsai cities are well supported by the mod tools. Civics not so much.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:46
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