Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

SoggyBobcat: Oct 2, 2013

Torrannor posted:

Those "parasites" are clearly the Russian minority being discriminated against by the evil... ugh Belorussians?

Anyway, dear father Putin will send ~~troops~~ help to put a stop to that

The homonazis, after having been rebuffed by Putin in Ukraine, are trying to ensnare Belarus next! :tinfoil:

# ? Feb 19, 2017 23:26

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# ? May 16, 2024 16:07

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

OddObserver posted:

Well, well, well.
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/832946413285806080

Surkov sure keeps a "fine" company, complete with the kolovorot armband.

top left looks exactly like a scifi convention group photo

# ? Feb 20, 2017 04:59

Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

Hey, if we have any Belarussian goons or people with knowledge of that country, I have a question.

A couple of years back I met a couple of Belarussian dudes. They told me that after decades of Belarus aligning itself with Russia both culturally and politically, there's been a resurgence in trying to build a more Belarussian identity and this has been done with the blessing of the government. They specifically told me that this Belarussian identity harkened all the way back to when Belarus was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. How much truth is there to this? Has there been a visible change in Belarus in how they align themselves culturally?

I was reminded of this not only because of recent events in Belarus, but because Belarus's cooling relationship with Russia since the annexation of Crimea comes up ever so often in this thread.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 08:17

VoltairePunk: Dec 26, 2012; I have become Umlaut, destroyer of words

Ratpick posted:

Hey, if we have any Belarussian goons or people with knowledge of that country, I have a question.

A couple of years back I met a couple of Belarussian dudes. They told me that after decades of Belarus aligning itself with Russia both culturally and politically, there's been a resurgence in trying to build a more Belarussian identity and this has been done with the blessing of the government. They specifically told me that this Belarussian identity harkened all the way back to when Belarus was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. How much truth is there to this? Has there been a visible change in Belarus in how they align themselves culturally?

I was reminded of this not only because of recent events in Belarus, but because Belarus's cooling relationship with Russia since the annexation of Crimea comes up ever so often in this thread.

Even though I'm a Lithuanian, but from a local historical point of view the Belarussians and Lithuanians share a common history. Historically they were part of the same nation(s) (The Grand Duchy of Lithuania as well as the Commonwealth), however modern nations are very different with different culture, tradition and identity. Belarussians do not identify themselves as Lithuanians, but historically they are as part of the Grand Duchy as modern Lithuanians and some Ukrainian peoples as well.
A few of Belarussian people I've met in my life sort of confirm this point of view, but someone else could possibly broaden or debunk the claim.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 09:04

Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

Karmalis posted:

Even though I'm a Lithuanian, but from a local historical point of view the Belarussians and Lithuanians share a common history. Historically they were part of the same nation(s) (The Grand Duchy of Lithuania as well as the Commonwealth), however modern nations are very different with different culture, tradition and identity. Belarussians do not identify themselves as Lithuanians, but historically they are as part of the Grand Duchy as modern Lithuanians and some Ukrainian peoples as well.
A few of Belarussian people I've met in my life sort of confirm this point of view, but someone else could possibly broaden or debunk the claim.

Oh yeah, to clarify, they weren't saying that there was some kind of movement to replace Belarussian culture with Lithuanian or trying to take on a Lithuanian identity, but there was a certain harkening back to figures from the Grand Duchy and Commonwealth so as to distance themselves culturally from Russia. So, basically a conscious movement going "Hey, so, what if instead of focusing on our shared history with Russia we focus on our shared history with Lithuania to build our own cultural identity?"

I'm probably oversimplifying things, but I can sort of see it: pretty much every picture I've seen from a protest or demonstration from Belarus in recent years I've seen lots of flags emblazoned with the Pahonia, originally an emblem of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which to my knowledge is no longer a symbol in official use in Belarus.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:24

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The Pahonia was banned by the Soviet regime. It was instantly adopted by the Republic of Belarus after independence from the Soviet Union, but then a few years later Lukashenko replaced it with a slight modification of the Belorussian SSR.

So the Pahonia is pretty much the national symbol of Belorussians who don't like their Batka.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:45

VoltairePunk: Dec 26, 2012; I have become Umlaut, destroyer of words

Cat Mattress posted:

The Pahonia was banned by the Soviet regime. It was instantly adopted by the Republic of Belarus after independence from the Soviet Union, but then a few years later Lukashenko replaced it with a slight modification of the Belorussian SSR.

So the Pahonia is pretty much the national symbol of Belorussians who don't like their Batka.

Pretty much yeah. Furthermore, the Pahonia is a national symbol (coat of arms) of Lithuania, so I guess it could relate to Lukashenko's dislike of it maybe? Not sure about that though.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 11:16

ass struggle: Dec 25, 2012; by Athanatos

Also has that whole nazi collaborator angle

# ? Feb 20, 2017 11:24

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Ratpick posted:

Hey, if we have any Belarussian goons or people with knowledge of that country, I have a question.

A couple of years back I met a couple of Belarussian dudes. They told me that after decades of Belarus aligning itself with Russia both culturally and politically, there's been a resurgence in trying to build a more Belarussian identity and this has been done with the blessing of the government. They specifically told me that this Belarussian identity harkened all the way back to when Belarus was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. How much truth is there to this? Has there been a visible change in Belarus in how they align themselves culturally?

No, unless you believe Russian websites like Sputnik and Pogrom. According to them evil Belarusian nationalist are about to start beating up anyone who speaks Russian any day now. In reality some statues of historical figures got installed and that's about it. Maybe more ads are now in Belarusian, hard to say, but no real effort is made to promote the Belarusian language either. If you read the official newspaper of the Belarusian army, it's full of stuff like calling Kalinouski and Kosciuszko traitors of the Great Russia. And that's about the only paper that cares about that. Everywhere else Belarusian history only exists in the context of USSR and WWII. There was also a fairly recent closure of a historical magazine that would emphasise the Grand Duchy of Lithuania's role in Belarusian identify.
I am normally somewhat pro-Russian, but that sort of sensationalism bullshit really pushes my buttons. The most annoying part is that some Belarusians now begin to believe it, too, which is insane.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 12:41

VoltairePunk: Dec 26, 2012; I have become Umlaut, destroyer of words

Paladinus posted:

No, unless you believe Russian websites like Sputnik and Pogrom. According to them evil Belarusian nationalist are about to start beating up anyone who speaks Russian any day now. In reality some statues of historical figures got installed and that's about it. Maybe more ads are now in Belarusian, hard to say, but no real effort is made to promote the Belarusian language either. If you read the official newspaper of the Belarusian army, it's full of stuff like calling Kalinouski and Kosciuszko traitors of the Great Russia. And that's about the only paper that cares about that. Everywhere else Belarusian history only exists in the context of USSR and WWII. There was also a fairly recent closure of a historical magazine that would emphasise the Grand Duchy of Lithuania's role in Belarusian identify.
I am normally somewhat pro-Russian, but that sort of sensationalism bullshit really pushes my buttons. The most annoying part is that some Belarusians now begin to believe it, too, which is insane.

Wait, so how do Belorussian see themselves historically and culturally? Is there some sort of a divide in that area?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 12:59

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

rear end struggle posted:

Also has that whole nazi collaborator angle

Everything that ever opposed Soviet Russia has a nazi collaborator angle; especially if it's a lot older than Nazi Germany.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 13:08

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

Cat Mattress posted:

Everything that ever opposed Soviet Russia has a nazi collaborator angle; especially if it's a lot older than Nazi Germany.

Golden Horde were western Soros-paid NATO fascists.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 13:34

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Cat Mattress posted:

Everything that ever opposed Soviet Russia has a nazi collaborator angle; especially if it's a lot older than Nazi Germany.

Including the present Russian flag.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 13:46

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Karmalis posted:

Wait, so how do Belorussian see themselves historically and culturally? Is there some sort of a divide in that area?

The majority of people, I'd say, see themselves as Belarusian only as opposed to Russians, Ukrainians and Polish. Then there are many people who consider themselves Russian/Soviet Belarusians with no particular emphasis on either part (around 35% according to some polls). Not many people draw their identity primarily from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, though. Even the opposition celebrate their unofficial Independence Day on the day when BPR was established (in 1918). Belarusian identity is very young, indeed.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 14:45

VoltairePunk: Dec 26, 2012; I have become Umlaut, destroyer of words

Paladinus posted:

The majority of people, I'd say, see themselves as Belarusian only as opposed to Russians, Ukrainians and Polish. Then there are many people who consider themselves Russian/Soviet Belarusians with no particular emphasis on either part (around 35% according to some polls). Not many people draw their identity primarily from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, though. Even the opposition celebrate their unofficial Independence Day on the day when BPR was established (in 1918). Belarusian identity is very young, indeed.

Good to know. Many thanks.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 15:17

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

The economy in Belarus is tanking, and Lukashenko some time ago signed a decree that "parasites" or unemployed people would have a to pay a fine for being unemployed. The demonstrations are mostly based on this decree.

How is that fine even supposed to be enforced? Aren't you basically fining people for not having money, which makes no sense? Will the government just spend tons of money on bureaucratic regulation for what will effectively be just a reduction in unemployment support?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 15:17

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Libluini posted:

How is that fine even supposed to be enforced? Aren't you basically fining people for not having money, which makes no sense? Will the government just spend tons of money on bureaucratic regulation for what will effectively be just a reduction in unemployment support?

That's not how it works. You only pay the new tax (~$200 a year) after you, as an employable adult not on pension/maternity/paternity leave, stay unemployed for more than six months and declare no income. The real reason this law was introduced is to force freelance workers to come clean, which is a stupid and backward way of approaching the problem, obviously.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 16:38

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Paladinus posted:

That's not how it works. You only pay the new tax (~$200 a year) after you, as an employable adult not on pension/maternity/paternity leave, stay unemployed for more than six months and declare no income. The real reason this law was introduced is to force freelance workers to come clean, which is a stupid and backward way of approaching the problem, obviously.

Some of the protests seem to be from people dealing with things like cancer treatment, which seems like something they could address, too.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:44

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

OddObserver posted:

Some of the protests seem to be from people dealing with things like cancer treatment, which seems like something they could address, too.

Depends on its severity, but cancer usually allows to claim disability benefits. In this case the law also doesn't apply.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:17

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

The Russian ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, has just dropped dead. Supposedly medical problems, but you never know with Russia.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:36

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

chitoryu12 posted:

The Russian ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, has just dropped dead. Supposedly medical problems, but you never know with Russia.

He was probably wacked by natural causes

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:44

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Popular pro-Kremlin propaganda site, South Front, has come up with quite the theory about me and Trump:

quote:

Whither Bellingcat in the Age of Trump?

Elliott Higgins� infamous Bellingcat organization which is attempting to position itself as an independent investigative institution focusing on international conflicts and crimes against humanity has made yet another effort to make itself relevant in the MH17 shoot-down saga by claiming it has identified the Russian officer who, presumably singlehandedly, brought the Buk launch vehicle from Russia into the Donbass, though apparently forgetting to take along such niceties as target surveillance radars, ammunition supply vehicles, or battery command units without which a single isolated launch vehicle has very limited usefulness. This �investigation� was performed in the usual Bellingcat fashion: by slapping together related and unrelated, dated and undated, photographs and social media posts which may or may not have originated on the Donbass, but which, thanks to a few Sherlock Holmes-like logic somersaults, indubitably confirm Russia�s guilt. Which is an unsurprising conclusion, since literally every single investigative project Bellingcat has ever undertaken has let its to the same discovery�if things go bump in the night, if there are monsters under the bed, you can be sure Vladimir Putin is behind it.

That Bellingcat was one of the many visible manifestations of the Hydra-headed intelligence �deep state� was never in doubt. While most Western NGOs hew closely to the official ideology of the day, Bellingcat�s eagerness to provide propaganda fodder for the current US or NATO talking points is in a league of its own. This is also manifested by its complete disinterest in any theater of war in which Russia is not engaged in any way: Iraq, Yemen, Libya. Investigations of atrocities committed by NATO forces or their proxies clearly are outside of Bellingcat�s sphere of interest. The remarkable success at utilizing crowd-funding services has the effect of concealing its real sources of funding. Bellingcat�s British origins fit well within the tradition of outsourcing intelligence �dirty jobs� to the UK, which in the past was happy to falsely implicate Saddam Hussein in an effort to procure uranium from Niger, or more recently the �Trump dossier� which alleged that the current US president availed himself of the services of FSB-enlisted sex workers.

Trump Administration�s nascent efforts to improve relations with Russia naturally put into question the future of an instrument of a hybrid war against Russia such as Bellingcat. Given the intimate relationship between Bellingcat and the international intelligence �deep state�, Bellingcat�s future will be one of significant indicators of the state of relations between the Trump Administration and his domestic �Fifth Column.�

For example, should Bellingcat gently fade away into the night or focus itself on more benign activities that do not impinge on US-Russian relations, one will be able to draw the conclusion that Trump has succeeded at bending the deep state to his will. A lot will depend on whether Bellingcat begins to attack Trump directly in the same way that the �Trump dossier� did. If the latter is the case, it will mean that the opposition to Trump is so deeply entrenched that no agreement reached between him and President Putin is likely to survive Trump�s departure from power. While it is too soon to dismiss the possibility of Russia-US cooperation on a variety of issues, one should also take into consideration the very real obstacles that Donald Trump has yet to overcome.

Based on the above Trump is hosed.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:40

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

How does it feel to have legitimate conspiracy theorists write about you, BM?

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:42

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

cinci zoo sniper posted:

How does it feel to have legitimate conspiracy theorists write about you, BM?

The crazier they are the better I feel.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:48

Elukka: Feb 18, 2011; For All Mankind

If it's a legitimate conspiracy theory, BM's head has ways of shutting that down.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 09:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

This may replace my current favourite conspiracy theory about me, which is as Bellingcat launched 3 days before MH17 was shot down it's therefore linked to the shooting down of MH17.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 10:02

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Brown Moses posted:

This may replace my current favourite conspiracy theory about me, which is as Bellingcat launched 3 days before MH17 was shot down it's therefore linked to the shooting down of MH17.

*glances at thread title* :captainpop:

# ? Feb 21, 2017 10:11

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

I enjoyed your article about Grumpy Smurf and his possible involvement with MH17, BM. Does this make Russia's involvement even more solid?

In other news, the president of Azerbaijan declared his wife vice president.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Feb 21, 2017

# ? Feb 21, 2017 11:09

Serjeant Buzfuz: Dec 5, 2009

So where is all the citizen journalism dedicated to researching all the BS Trump has gotten involved with? I'm assuming there is a bellingcat-like effort going on?

# ? Feb 21, 2017 15:21

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Looks like attempt #2 to get Firtash (shady Ukrainian oligarch, currently in Austria) extradited to US succeeded, though some approvals are still needed. Hopefully the new government in US will not let the crook get away for political reasons.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 16:32

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

OddObserver posted:

Looks like attempt #2 to get Firtash (shady Ukrainian oligarch, currently in Austria) extradited to US succeeded, though some approvals are still needed. Hopefully the new government in US will not let the crook get away for political reasons.

Man, you know poo poo's hosed up when you entrust Trump administration with hope.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 16:33

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Man, you know poo poo's hosed up when you entrust Trump administration with hope.

Well, it's more like I am hoping they won't care enough to get involved....

# ? Feb 21, 2017 16:37

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Meet the next Belarusian president, a timid man in an ill-fitting suit who rambles about some nonsense and promises to undo every mistake of Lukashenko's government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vEKtkHG2oY

# ? Feb 21, 2017 18:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

I enjoyed your article about Grumpy Smurf and his possible involvement with MH17, BM. Does this make Russia's involvement even more solid?

It makes it more transparent, it always felt solid to me, but I know there's plenty who disagree, so it can't help to add to the evidence. We're going to follow up that post with some updates, as we've found more information, and an idiot RT contributor managed to verify some of our claims in his attempt to defend him.

Lou Takki posted:

So where is all the citizen journalism dedicated to researching all the BS Trump has gotten involved with? I'm assuming there is a bellingcat-like effort going on?

There's efforts underway, but no-one wants to show their hand at this point, and his day to day BS is being dealt with fairly well in the media.Shame it took this for the media to apply this much fact checking in their coverage of politics.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 19:11

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

lovely article on pro-Kremlin "experts"
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/useful-experts-in-russian-media/

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The Russian Foreign Ministry is also doing it's bit to fit fake news

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/834368353061990402

Although it does seem it solely consists of taking screenshots of articles, stamping them with "FAKE", and put "This article puts forward information that does not correspond to reality." under it.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Brown Moses posted:

The Russian Foreign Ministry is also doing it's bit to fit fake news

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/834368353061990402

Although it does seem it solely consists of taking screenshots of articles, stamping them with "FAKE", and put "This article puts forward information that does not correspond to reality." under it.

haha, wow. I thought you were joking, but that's literally what they're doing. BM, do you ever wish the regime was better at its propaganda job? Give you more of a challenge?

# ? Feb 22, 2017 16:54

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Discendo Vox posted:

haha, wow. I thought you were joking, but that's literally what they're doing. BM, do you ever wish the regime was better at its propaganda job? Give you more of a challenge?

We live in a reality where facts and truth are outdated concepts. The Russian efforts may seem like obvious failures to us, but people with an ideological bent that supports Russia or is rabidly anti-AMerican, anti-media will eat that poo poo up like it was ambrosia because it confirms their own world view.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 16:58

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Paladinus posted:

Meet the next Belarusian president, a timid man in an ill-fitting suit who rambles about some nonsense and promises to undo every mistake of Lukashenko's government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vEKtkHG2oY

Was Lukashenko replaced recently? I always thought Belarus was basically a one-man dictatorship, or is this sarcasm about his chances in the next election against Luka?

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:00

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# ? May 16, 2024 16:07

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Libluini posted:

Was Lukashenko replaced recently? I always thought Belarus was basically a one-man dictatorship, or is this sarcasm about his chances in the next election against Luka?

The latter. Batka isn't giving up the throne any time soon and if he does it will probably be to the little sociopath he's been raising for the past 14 years (or however old Joffrey is).

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:02

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