Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

cheetah7071 posted:

why would you buy anything in a bazaar before looking at all of the shops first though

I guess I worded it badly, I was 30 gold short when I first entered, but it says I have 971 gold since I bought a few things after realizing I couldn't get the shield

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:08

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# ? May 14, 2024 19:56

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Council god is now up on the Japanese server! :toot:

I'm gonna kick and punch everything a lot!

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:37

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Ask me about doing Tomb with only rN+

quote:

72988 | Tomb:3 | HP: 4/186 [frost giant zombie (22)]

Don't accidentally go down the Tomb:3 stairs without casting silence first! :regd09:

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:39

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

it's up on CJR too, but if people start playing there it'll be a less cool server to play on :ssh:

verdict: it's fun, but i keep getting myself killed by prioritizing having fun over actually playing well. oops!

How does slow movement (naga, bara-chans) impact the attack while moving? would slow-moving races be poor choices to play council god?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 10:58

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Are the attacks the council god triggers better than regular attacks? I can't tell if i should be using them only when i need to, or all the time?

edit: also do the three moves have cooldowns? if so it would be nice if you could see in your status when it's not available.

edit edit: holy poo poo this is the most fun god

tote up a bags fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Feb 20, 2017

# ? Feb 20, 2017 11:09

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

I am playing 0.19 with its dumb old mutation potions and I'm a mutated wreck and want to kill my are self.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 12:53

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

someone awful. posted:

it's up on CJR too, but if people start playing there it'll be a less cool server to play on

verdict: it's fun, but i keep getting myself killed by prioritizing having fun over actually playing well. oops!

How does slow movement (naga, bara-chans) impact the attack while moving? would slow-moving races be poor choices to play council god?

The damage of your attacks will be consistent with tabbing regardless of your movement speed. Slow races will attack more times per move to compensate for moving more slowly. However, you have the disadvantage that it's harder to consistently use whirlwind to reposition. Wall jump can help a lot with that though. Serpent's Lash, the first activated ability has a synergy with slow races in that your moves are instant, but you keep your higher number of attacks per move, so you will deal more damage with it than other species. Heaven on Earth, the second, has a counter-synergy in that your slay bonus will decay faster because your movements take longer.

tote up a bags posted:

Are the attacks the council god triggers better than regular attacks? I can't tell if i should be using them only when i need to, or all the time?

edit: also do the three moves have cooldowns? if so it would be nice if you could see in your status when it's not available.

edit edit: holy poo poo this is the most fun god

They don't have cooldowns and they are better than tabbing. Whirlwind and walljump do consistent damage with tabbing, but whirlwind applies slow and wall jump distracts. Lunge just straight up does more damage.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Feb 20, 2017

# ? Feb 20, 2017 14:41

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Darox posted:

Shoutitus mostly screws stabbers. Hampering a specific build seems out of character for a jack of all trades race, plus stabbers generally like spreading XP across several skills so they seem like a good match.

Stabbers, particularly enchanters, want to get a bunch of skills to ~8 to 12 asap to clear the midgame, then worry about endgame tools after the S runes. Cyno seems like it ought to be a pretty good stabber race, without barkitis.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 15:24

Sojenus: Dec 28, 2008

Cynos get innate rmsl. Because they are good at catching things thrown at them with their mouth.

Permanent haste upon picking up the Orb. Because they finally got the ball.

Enemies opening doors cause you to shout.

Replace Beogh with a Cyno-only god that functions the same but gives you a larger and larger dog pack.

Roll in corpses for Ring of Flames-style miasma clouds but a stealth debuff.

I don't have any actual ideas.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 16:11

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Sojenus posted:

Cynos get innate rmsl. Because they are good at catching things thrown at them with their mouth.

Permanent haste upon picking up the Orb. Because they finally got the ball.

Enemies opening doors cause you to shout.

Replace Beogh with a Cyno-only god that functions the same but gives you a larger and larger dog pack.

Roll in corpses for Ring of Flames-style miasma clouds but a stealth debuff.

I don't have any bad ideas.

Fixed this for you. PF or someone please implement immediately.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 16:22

Obfuscation: Jan 1, 2008; Good luck to you, I know you believe in hell

When you are playing Cyno, all monsters can walk through closed doors.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 16:24

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Obfuscation posted:

When you are playing Cyno, all monsters can walk through closed doors.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, uh... won't get fooled again!

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:11

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Darox posted:

Shoutitus mostly screws stabbers. Hampering a specific build seems out of character for a jack of all trades race, plus stabbers generally like spreading XP across several skills so they seem like a good match.

Speleothing posted:

Stabbers, particularly enchanters, want to get a bunch of skills to ~8 to 12 asap to clear the midgame, then worry about endgame tools after the S runes. Cyno seems like it ought to be a pretty good stabber race, without barkitis.

Could you give information on how often shoutitis screws over stabbers, and in what way? I'm being earnest, not condescending, since I've pretty much never played a stabber other than an enchanter (which was more of a loud stabber from my experience). If the impact is large enough, I'll definitely consider against adding it, since it is solely an attempt at adding a bit more flavor to the species, not a balancing mechanic.

Serephina posted:

Floodkiller, I'm very interested in seeing the xp math behind the cyno changes (I can't play myself, too lazy to set up a tty). When I first heard of them as a +5 apt race with a cap at 12, I was excited, as it's basically gnollcrawl but more midgame-ish. But now, I just can't get excited about basically a race with +1 to get to skill lvl12, then negative infinity past that. What sort of characters are ppl playing with those apts?

When the species was originally a flat +5 aptitude, I was maxing (hitting the hard skill cap of 12) weapon skill by D:3. I might as well have just set all the player's skills to 12 at that point. As I tested lower flat aptitudes (+3, then +2) and a slightly higher skill cap (14), it felt like it was in a more balanced spot. However, most of the feedback I was receiving was that players often became frustrated when they had to pick up a new spell/skill to train solely to make sure the XP didn't go to waste, because they were already maxed on everything they cared about. This happened even if the player never intended to use anything from that skill, which really starts to sound like a tedious HOM arguement.

Thus, I transitioned over to having the dynamic soft cap, with the intention to make it easy to train up to roughly 12/14, but making it incredibly difficult to train after that point. The intention was to still encourage players to swap away and train other skills (rather than directly force it by stopping them), but they can climb the skill mountain if they've got nothing else they actually want to use.

With the original implmentation of the soft cap implementation (that went live onto the experimental branch) of +3/-2 every 5 levels (stops decreasing at -5), here's the approximate 'break points' for each aptitude. For a key, the Skill Level column is defined as the skill level in which it is cheaper to train at the flat aptitude listed under the Aptitude column, than in the dynamic system.

code:

Aptitude   Skill Level
      +3             6
      +2             7
      +1            11
      +0            15
      -1            17
      -2            21
      -3            24
      -4           N/A

Additionally, here's some comparison tables to indicate at what amount of experience does an aptitude reach skill level 14 and 27 with, and what is the approximate equivalent skill level for Cynos is at that level:

code:

Aptitude   XP For 14   Cyno Skill Level
      +5        2522               10.4
      +4        3000               11.0
      +3        3567               11.7
      +2        4242               12.4
      +1        5045               13.1
      +0        6000               14.0
      -1        7135               14.9
      -2        8485               15.3
      -3       10090               16.4
      -4       12000               17.3
      -5       14270               18.2

code:

Aptitude   XP For 27   Cyno Skill Level
      +5       12508               17.5
      +4       14875               18.5
      +3       17689               19.5
      +2       21036               20.5
      +1       25016               21.4
      +0       29750               22.4
      -1       35378               23.4
      -2       42072               24.6
      -3       50033               26.0
      -4       59500               27.0
      -5       70757               27.0

Here's the +4/-4 every 6 levels soft cap implementation (stops decreasing at -8) I pushed last night:

code:

Aptitude   Skill Level
      +4             7
      +3             7
      +2             8
      +1            11
      +0            13
      -1            14
      -2            16
      -3            19
      -4            20
      -5            22
      -6            25
      -7           N/A

And the corresponding XP tables:

code:

Aptitude   XP For 14   Cyno Skill Level
      +5        2522               10.3
      +4        3000               11.1
      +3        3567               11.8
      +2        4242               12.3
      +1        5045               12.8
      +0        6000               13.3
      -1        7135               13.9
      -2        8485               14.5
      -3       10090               15.3
      -4       12000               16.1
      -5       14270               17.0

code:

Aptitude   XP For 27   Cyno Skill Level
      +5       12508               16.3
      +4       14875               17.2
      +3       17689               18.1
      +2       21036               18.6
      +1       25016               19.3
      +0       29750               20.0
      -1       35378               20.8
      -2       42072               21.6
      -3       50033               22.6
      -4       59500               23.7
      -5       70757               24.9

I think the newer implementation better captures the intent behind the soft cap system. However, if a lot of people feel that the early skill level boost stops too quickly/too soon, I can throw in a fake level or two (such as setting skill level 1 to be achieved at 1 xp) and offset the steps by that amount. I've been avoiding doing that so far, as I want to keep the aptitudes correct to avoid requiring people to code dive to find the exact XP values; also, as it turns out, the reason why I won't change the flat aptitudes after being frustrated for an entire day trying to figure out why the values are different with +1/-1 :v:

. I would probably set the displayed bonus aptitude as +∞ for those steps for clarity purposes.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:12

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

tote up a bags posted:

the new god is good if you do eight shots before you play because it rewards: accidentally walking past enemies, trying to walk into walls, accidentally closing the gap into an enemy to give them the first attack

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:12

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

i 100% stand by this ^

# ? Feb 20, 2017 17:16

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Floodkiller posted:

Could you give information on how often shoutitis screws over stabbers, and in what way? I'm being earnest, not condescending, since I've pretty much never played a stabber other than an enchanter (which was more of a loud stabber from my experience). If the impact is large enough, I'll definitely consider against adding it, since it is solely an attempt at adding a bit more flavor to the species, not a balancing mechanic.

When the species was originally a flat +5 aptitude, I was maxing (hitting the hard skill cap of 12) weapon skill by D:3. I might as well have just set all the player's skills to 12 at that point. As I tested lower flat aptitudes (+3, then +2) and a slightly higher skill cap (14), it felt like it was in a more balanced spot. However, most of the feedback I was receiving was that players often became frustrated when they had to pick up a new spell/skill to train solely to make sure the XP didn't go to waste, because they were already maxed on everything they cared about. This happened even if the player never intended to use anything from that skill, which really starts to sound like a tedious HOM arguement.

I haven't gotten around to playing Cyno yet, in spite of it sounding right up my alley. The low stats killed it for me the first time I tried, but now that that's better, I really should try again.

As regarding stabbers, enchanters can only be "noisy stabbers" up until enchantments no longer reliably affect things you want to stab. While hexes never truly go out of style, you still need another main source of kill dudes and they become a situational "I want that Vault Warden to save or suck" skill. But shoutitis, while hardly build breaking, can still be very relevant for stealthy characters because it can screw over situations like this: "There's an orb of fire taking a nap on Zot: 2 and I can easily stab it with my huge stealth" or "Here I see a giant hell pack / awful unique / etc. that is sleeping and I'd rather just leave it alone". Stabbers can still stab with shoutitis, but it reduces the opportunities and decreases the major defensive benefit of stealth.

As regards skill caps, I have nothing substantive to say on the matter without actually playing the species and the changes sound positive to me. However, I will say that people complaining about having to train irrelevant skills just have something to train sound like boring players. Why would you take Trog with the species specifically keyed to versatility? It seems little worse that taking Trog as a deep elf. I can't possibly give meaningful criticism against the feedback you've received, but from my perspective, some of it comes from a perspective of not knowing how to play the species and not being able to adapt to a playstyle that incorporates multiple spell schools. If the race were in trunk and you had a high load of players playing it, it's possible that the criticism would take a different character after a month or so.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 18:40

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Heithinn Grasida posted:

As regarding stabbers, enchanters can only be "noisy stabbers" up until enchantments no longer reliably affect things you want to stab. While hexes never truly go out of style, you still need another main source of kill dudes and they become a situational "I want that Vault Warden to save or suck" skill. But shoutitis, while hardly build breaking, can still be very relevant for stealthy characters because it can screw over situations like this: "There's an orb of fire taking a nap on Zot: 2 and I can easily stab it with my huge stealth" or "Here I see a giant hell pack / awful unique / etc. that is sleeping and I'd rather just leave it alone". Stabbers can still stab with shoutitis, but it reduces the opportunities and decreases the major defensive benefit of stealth.

I see. LearnDB says that Shoutitis 1 is a 6% chance to activate every time a monster comes into view, so I can see how the second example starts to quickly break down for stabbers with this mutation with the number of monsters that pop up on average. I'll probably think of something else, because I don't want to custom implement a weaker version of Shoutitis for a single species, and 6% sounds too high.

Heithinn Grasida posted:

As regards skill caps, I have nothing substantive to say on the matter without actually playing the species and the changes sound positive to me. However, I will say that people complaining about having to train irrelevant skills just have something to train sound like boring players. Why would you take Trog with the species specifically keyed to versatility? It seems little worse that taking Trog as a deep elf. I can't possibly give meaningful criticism against the feedback you've received, but from my perspective, some of it comes from a perspective of not knowing how to play the species and not being able to adapt to a playstyle that incorporates multiple spell schools. If the race were in trunk and you had a high load of players playing it, it's possible that the criticism would take a different character after a month or so.

For reference, it wasn't Trog worshippers, it was literally any character. Here's a Gozagite who started training throwing (with only throwing nets) and unarmed combat (with multiple vampiric weapons) because they ran out space for other spells, and an Ash worshipper (before I fixed the skills) with what looks like the same issue for Staves and Unarmed Combat (although I can't confirm without a skill chart). Trog was just funnier/more obviously limited because you were maxed on all of your trainable skills roughly by your first or second rune.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 19:05

Chakan: Mar 30, 2011

I wanted to ask the thread about the character I'm playing on webtiles but I don't know how to pull the dump. Is there just a command? I'm away from my computer right now so I can't check. They're a DSVM of Dith, going into the midgame and I'm wondering how to make that transition, I'm fearful that leaning into stealth too early will leave me dead.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 20:42

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Chakan posted:

I wanted to ask the thread about the character I'm playing on webtiles but I don't know how to pull the dump. Is there just a command? I'm away from my computer right now so I can't check. They're a DSVM of Dith, going into the midgame and I'm wondering how to make that transition, I'm fearful that leaning into stealth too early will leave me dead.

Press '#' to make a character dump. It'll automatically link you to the dump in the message box at bottom right.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 20:48

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

I just zapped Dowan 13 times with a wand of confusion at 46%, and none of them broke MR.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:04

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

Fitzy Fitz posted:

I just zapped Dowan 13 times with a wand of confusion at 46%, and none of them broke MR.

Congrats on your approx. 1/25000 bad luck!

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:19

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

54% chance of failure, pretty risky.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:20

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

I nearly killed him with ripostes in the meantime. I wanted to see how long it would take.

I also zapped him an additional time a bit before that and didn't include it in my count, so 14 times.

e: And Duvessa twice at ~30%.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:22

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

This is why I have trust issues with hex wands.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:25

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

While I am completely aware that statistical extremes are entirely possible...

I am also aware of the double damage fiasco from .16

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:28

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Could he have had an MR item? I can't remember if monsters with MR items make the targetter lie or leak.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:42

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Don't forget that stealth was broken for a very long time and explained away as players experiencing clustering illusions.

It might be possible he was wearing a mr robe though? I don't think branded armour is included in that calculation.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:42

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Darox posted:

Don't forget that stealth was broken for a very long time and explained away as players experiencing clustering illusions.

It might be possible he was wearing a mr robe though? I don't think branded armour is included in that calculation.

HA

Yeah, he was. I wonder why that isn't calculated.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:47

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Well, his base MR isn't dependent on the specific game (i.e. you could look it up outside the game), so the game shows it to you. But his actual MR, taking into account his armour, would be unknown to you at that point. So it shouldn't be shown, unless you somehow knew that he was wearing an MR robe.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 22:54

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Do any classes other than hunter and arcane marksman have the option of starting with a bow/crossbow?

# ? Feb 20, 2017 23:11

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

To tack on to that question: please make more. Sometimes I want to play a fighter who has a bow and it annoys me that there's literally only one option for my preferred weapon type if I don't want to be a caster. I'm obsessed with crossbows and I find it irritating that I can't even train the skill on non-hunter/AM classes until like vaults when Yaktaurs show up unless I get a lucky floor drop.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 23:37

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

Hello Crawl thread I have begun playing Crawl again but for real this time. Just now I got my very first rune ever, from the spider cave. Please look at my character and tell me what I ought to be doing with skills, and where to go next

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Harvest/Harvest.txt

I don't have a source of resist corrosion, but I can check the shops to see if one is for sale.

# ? Feb 20, 2017 23:53

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Kaedric posted:

To tack on to that question: please make more. Sometimes I want to play a fighter who has a bow and it annoys me that there's literally only one option for my preferred weapon type if I don't want to be a caster. I'm obsessed with crossbows and I find it irritating that I can't even train the skill on non-hunter/AM classes until like vaults when Yaktaurs show up unless I get a lucky floor drop.

What would another ranged fighting class look like though? There are only so many options without adding magic, and they would all basically be minor variations on hunter.

e: Oh, I guess you could just add a ranged option to classes like fighter, gladiator, etc. But then what's the point of a hunter class?

Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Feb 21, 2017

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:07

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Crimson Harvest There's not to much you absolutely have to do with skills, being a MiBe, though I suppose there are arguably best options. At the moment, I'd suggest getting throwing up to 12 or 16 (tomahawk/javelin mindelay IIRC).

Do Dungeons down to 13 or so, whatever you feel comfortable with. Having cleared spider you probably can just clear to D:14, but the Vaults and Depths entrance can have some nasty stuff sometimes.
Head to the Orcish Mines, keeping Trog's Hand/MR gear on hand when a Sorcerer (or ogre mage if you're unlucky) shows up. Remember that summoned monsters give no exp and will go poof if you run away and do a long rest. For fun, polymorph an Orc Warlord. Don't Tab off the staircase when you first enter.
Keep an eye out for a bardiche to enchant up and brand eventually. Might turn up in Elf:2, don't head there quite yet.
Carefully do Shoals. Maybe don't even bother fully exploring each level, just carefully seek out the staircases. To do it more aggressively, you'll need either a good ranged weapon (that you don't care about losing) or lots of wands. Ring of Flight helps, but with just potions do only what you need to. Shoals is a pretty decent source of javelins, and if you train throwing up past a certain point, you're going to get an unending source of ammo gifts, some of which are hopefully returning branded.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:11

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Crimson Harvest posted:

Hello Crawl thread I have begun playing Crawl again but for real this time. Just now I got my very first rune ever, from the spider cave. Please look at my character and tell me what I ought to be doing with skills, and where to go next

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Harvest/Harvest.txt

I don't have a source of resist corrosion, but I can check the shops to see if one is for sale.

Immediately stop training armor. Also, I'm fairly sure Trog needs Invocations for his later level trogbro power, which owns, but I might get told that's wrong.

Find a demon trident of elec or something and enchant it up asap and use it with a shield is my suggestion, but I like shields a lot.

Otherwise mino of trog, just punch mans and get resists.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:13

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

IIRC Trog is invocation free and based solely on your level and piety.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:19

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

LordSloth posted:

Crimson Harvest There's not to much you absolutely have to do with skills, being a MiBe, though I suppose there are arguably best options. At the moment, I'd suggest getting throwing up to 12 or 16 (tomahawk/javelin mindelay IIRC).

Do Dungeons down to 13 or so, whatever you feel comfortable with. Having cleared spider you probably can just clear to D:14, but the Vaults and Depths entrance can have some nasty stuff sometimes.

Head to the Orcish Mines, keeping Trog's Hand/MR gear on hand when a Sorcerer (or ogre mage if you're unlucky) shows up. Remember that summoned monsters give no exp and will go poof if you run away and do a long rest. For fun, polymorph an Orc Warlord. Don't Tab off the staircase when you first enter.

Keep an eye out for a bardiche to enchant up and brand eventually. Might turn up in Elf:2, don't head there quite yet.

Carefully do Shoals. Maybe don't even bother fully exploring each level, just carefully seek out the staircases. To do it more aggressively, you'll need either a good ranged weapon (that you don't care about losing) or lots of wands. Ring of Flight helps, but with just potions do only what you need to. Shoals is a pretty decent source of javelins, and if you train throwing up past a certain point, you're going to get an unending source of ammo gifts, some of which are hopefully returning branded.

I've already tried a scroll of branding on one bardiche but it came out Draining, which doesn't seem great. I'll keep working on Throwing. I have a ring of flight stashed.

Captain Monkey posted:

Immediately stop training armor. Also, I'm fairly sure Trog needs Invocations for his later level trogbro power, which owns, but I might get told that's wrong.

Find a demon trident of elec or something and enchant it up asap and use it with a shield is my suggestion, but I like shields a lot.

Otherwise mino of trog, just punch mans and get resists.

I do have a demon trident but it's Antimagic. Is it important to keep an antimagic weapon around for caster uniques? I did see a large shield on the floor somewhere, I'll go fetch it.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:24

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Crimson Harvest posted:

Hello Crawl thread I have begun playing Crawl again but for real this time. Just now I got my very first rune ever, from the spider cave. Please look at my character and tell me what I ought to be doing with skills, and where to go next

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Harvest/Harvest.txt

I don't have a source of resist corrosion, but I can check the shops to see if one is for sale.

-Get rid of that whip. It's useless to you. If you're concerned about invisible enemies, you'll do better using an actual good weapon than you will using a lovely weapon with sInv.
-Why are you training M&F and polearms, anyway? Stick to one weapon type.
-You have plenty of Dodging skill for heavy armor. If you want more defenses, invest in Fighting or Armor.
-You should invest in more Throwing so you have a good ranged option. Javelins are brutal at high strength and Throwing skill.
-Dump those rings the instant you have a pair of resist rings for those slots. Or an sInv ring, or Slaying. What you have on now is technically helping, but basically anything else will help more.

Captain Monkey posted:

Find a demon trident of elec or something and enchant it up asap and use it with a shield is my suggestion, but I like shields a lot.

Finding the beefiest polearm available is also an option, and generally works out better than using a shield. I wouldn't recommend going shield+1H unless you have a defensive hole to fill(squishy caster, race that can't use body armor, etc).

Crimson Harvest posted:

I do have a demon trident but it's Antimagic. Is it important to keep an antimagic weapon around for caster uniques? I did see a large shield on the floor somewhere, I'll go fetch it.

Antimagic weapons are fantastic against nasty casters(which get more common later in the game). Even if you go shieldless, it'd be worth keeping the demon trident around just for that.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:34

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

Haifisch posted:

-Get rid of that whip. It's useless to you. If you're concerned about invisible enemies, you'll do better using an actual good weapon than you will using a lovely weapon with sInv.
-Why are you training M&F and polearms, anyway? Stick to one weapon type.
-You have plenty of Dodging skill for heavy armor. If you want more defenses, invest in Fighting or Armor.
-You should invest in more Throwing so you have a good ranged option. Javelins are brutal at high strength and Throwing skill.
-Dump those rings the instant you have a pair of resist rings for those slots. Or an sInv ring, or Slaying. What you have on now is technically helping, but basically anything else will help more.

Finding the beefiest polearm available is also an option, and generally works out better than using a shield. I wouldn't recommend going shield+1H unless you have a defensive hole to fill(squishy caster, race that can't use body armor, etc).

Antimagic weapons are fantastic against nasty casters(which get more common later in the game). Even if you go shieldless, it'd be worth keeping the demon trident around just for that.

I started with M&F and found dick all until I got this artifact halberd of speed. Also I don't really know what I'm doing.

What's the most dodge a heavy armor character should probably get?

I have no rings of resistance. Wait no, I have a ring of poison resist but no armor as good as the plate I'm wearing.

Don't forget that I'm pretty clueless if I've done something dumb.

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:39

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# ? May 14, 2024 19:56

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

quote:

I started with M&F and found dick all until I got this artifact halberd of speed. Also I don't really know what I'm doing.

Fair. Most characters will want to pick one weapon skill and stick to it, and take advantage of crosstraining(skills that show up in blue on the skills screen) if they want to dabble in another type for whatever reason. Switching weapon types completely is usually a waste of XP, although Minotaur can get away with it since all its melee apts are so high.

Finding jack poo poo until you get a really good weapon of another type is probably the only time I'd switch, even though Trog would have gifted some good maces eventually.

quote:

What's the most dodge a heavy armor character should probably get?

There's no hard cutoff, but I generally wouldn't want more than 12 or so until I'm running out of things to put XP in. The ROI is poorer than what you'd get from Armor or Fighting, but you do want some EV.

Crimson Harvest posted:

I have no rings of resistance. Wait no, I have a ring of poison resist but no armor as good as the plate I'm wearing.

That bit was just a note for the future. I've seen people overvalue some weird things, so I wanted to be sure. :v:

# ? Feb 21, 2017 00:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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