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I'm going to go suggest something awful. Provide a couple automatic skill training builds for your particular character, then explain them. They are not going to be optimal, but 'good enough' for you to focus on tactics. * means toggle the skill so it's 'focused'. There is a fine art to manually training your skills, but I've sometimes got into the trap of planning out my character so much I just Tab to my death. Build 1: Two-handed Fighting*, Polearms, Throwing*, Armor, Dodging Build 2: One-Handed Fighting*, Throwing*, Shields*, Armor, Dodging, Evocations You've hit mindelay, so training your weapon skill is of low importance, especially compared to fighting. Past the 'break point' it still provides you with damage, accuracy, a buffer to draining attacks, and the ability to use a bardiche if you find your halberd bumps off monster AC too often, or get a really good one. Troglodytes have little to do other than hit things in the face, so it doesn't hurt to excel at it, especially as the skill costs spike rapidly in the twenties. Feel free to shift the focus from Fighting to Polearms if you find a compelling and slower two-hander, or the skill has gotten so high that training has slowed down (you can toggle the skill screen to show relative costs). A lot of ranged skills will come in handy for a minotaur, and they even have better aptitudes. I'm sticking with throwing because it works equally well for both builds. 12 or 16 skill to get those tomahawks and javelins to mindelay, then turn it off unless you have plenty of spare experience. Leave armor and dodging on because as long as you have a focus elsewhere it'll more or less take care of itself. Evocations works its way into the second build because you don't need 26 polearm skills for anything shield-related and have the spare EXP to get better at zapping things.
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Feb 21, 2017 01:03
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What type of backgrounds/gods work for vampires? I know they can be good enchanters and they're really good with hexes but their conjurations apt is pretty horrible. I was thinking of VpEn of dithmenos but I don't know how to branch out into mid/late game (specially Depths/Zot)
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Feb 21, 2017 01:31
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VpEE is my favorite build. Pretend you're following Maknleb by petrifying and stabbing everything in Lair while bloodless, and have stone arrow/LRD to kill high MR monsters!!! Kiku is pretty much the premier Vp god since you get everything a vampire could ever want.
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Feb 21, 2017 01:42
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LordSloth posted:Shoals is a pretty decent source of javelins You're a funny, funny man 
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Feb 21, 2017 02:05
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Can Of Worms posted:VpEE is my favorite build. Pretend you're following Maknleb by petrifying and stabbing everything in Lair while bloodless, and have stone arrow/LRD to kill high MR monsters!!! Is it just the corpse delivery or is it also the necromancy books? I tried a few Vp games and I had no problems keeping enough blood potions on myself at least. I might try VpEE^Kiku though, apts for earth at 0 and necromancy at 1 sound pretty doable.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:05
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how am i supposed to deal with like 3 entropy weavers and a huge ant nest on lair:4, that's insane. and all 3 of the downstairs are clustered just south of the ant nest so i can't really escape to continue progressing and then when i managed to sneak down the stairs, there was yet another entropy weaver 
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Feb 21, 2017 02:14
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someone awful. posted:how am i supposed to deal with like 3 entropy weavers and a huge ant nest on lair:4, that's insane. and all 3 of the downstairs are clustered just south of the ant nest so i can't really escape to continue progressing
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Feb 21, 2017 02:16
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I pretty much don't ever, ever turn on more than 1 skill. When I first started crawl I just left skills on, and focusing them one at a time was a massive increase in my ability to actually beat the game. By the way, do Councilgod special attacks trigger cleaving on axes? If not, I think long blades would probably be a good choice, since you can jump around and still get ripostes?
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Feb 21, 2017 02:22
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Crimson Harvest posted:Hello Crawl thread I have begun playing Crawl again but for real this time. Just now I got my very first rune ever, from the spider cave. Please look at my character and tell me what I ought to be doing with skills, and where to go next Incase you don't know, you can Ctrl+f to search for stuff. You could search for "rCorr" and it will pull up a list (if any) of items that you have found anywhere in the dungeon with resist corrosion. If it's in a shop it will also list its price. It is super awesome for looking for resists like rF+, MR+, etc, god "gift" or whatever the hell other crap you can think of. e: you can even search for a spell's name and it will point you to any book that contains it.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:23
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someone awful. posted:how am i supposed to deal with like 3 entropy weavers and a huge ant nest on lair:4, that's insane. and all 3 of the downstairs are clustered just south of the ant nest so i can't really escape to continue progressing Use a potion of invisi- Oh wait entropy weavers were flavoured as formicids for a week so now they have sInv forever, you get to eat poo poo.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:35
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LordSloth posted:I'm going to go suggest something awful. Provide a couple automatic skill training builds for your particular character, then explain them. They are not going to be optimal, but 'good enough' for you to focus on tactics. * means toggle the skill so it's 'focused'. There is a fine art to manually training your skills, but I've sometimes got into the trap of planning out my character so much I just Tab to my death. I'll try out this for the one handed, see how I do. I was able to get the Shoals rune pretty easily, and was pretty surprised by the mechanics of both sirens and satyrs. Picked up a ring of resist corrosion and tested out the slime pits but that place is mega scary. Is it easier than the elven vaults?
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Feb 21, 2017 02:36
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I pretty much don't ever, ever turn on more than 1 skill. When I first started crawl I just left skills on, and focusing them one at a time was a massive increase in my ability to actually beat the game. Only lunges cleave, or else things would get batshit with multiple cleaves per whirlwind. I'm pretty sure you can still whirlwind + lunge, flurry an adjacent enemy and the lunge target and end up attacking someone four times, though.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:40
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Entropy weavers in Lair are legit bullshit. I dunno who thought putting them in ant vaults was a good idea but that change needs to be reverted. Its straight up unfair.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:43
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Royal Jelly suddenly ruined my poo poo when it was down to 'almost dead'. Of course it was my own fault for holding onto a -tele weapon and trying to blink away.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:50
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Crimson Harvest posted:Royal Jelly suddenly ruined my poo poo when it was down to 'almost dead'. Of course it was my own fault for holding onto a -tele weapon and trying to blink away. <Sequell> almost dead[1/3]: Still entirely capable of obliterating you.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:55
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apple posted:Is it just the corpse delivery or is it also the necromancy books? I tried a few Vp games and I had no problems keeping enough blood potions on myself at least. Re-implement pizza, add 1/128 chance for Kiku corpse delivery to give pizza instead. "Sorry, wrong order!"
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Feb 21, 2017 02:58
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apple posted:Is it just the corpse delivery or is it also the necromancy books? I tried a few Vp games and I had no problems keeping enough blood potions on myself at least.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:03
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Eela6 posted:Re-implement pizza, add 1/128 chance for Kiku corpse delivery to give pizza instead. "Sorry, wrong order!" This will fit well with the ninja turtle race I'm developing.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:25
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Can Of Worms posted:Corpse delivery and Pain brand is good enough on its own, if Kiku gifts one of Animate Dead/Death Channel/Simulacrum you're basically laughing your way to the orb. That's good to know! I also noticed something interesting from Kiku: no invocation scaling on abilities. -1 on invocations isn't terrible but it feels like I'm spreading myself thin as it is.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:39
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apple posted:That's good to know! I also noticed something interesting from Kiku: no invocation scaling on abilities. -1 on invocations isn't terrible but it feels like I'm spreading myself thin as it is. Kiku uses Necromancy instead everywhere it's relevant, IIRC.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:40
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the secret to shields(and large shields) is that you do not actually need to get 15/25 skill for them to be good, as long as you are a spellcaster. the penalties for shields are fairly minimal with just a bit of skill(even with no skill they are worth using on a 1H character), and at 15+ skill the penalties for large shields are also fairly small compared to the benefit(again, if you are not casting spells). shields as items are really good, shields as a skill is pretty bad.
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Feb 21, 2017 04:05
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someone awful. posted:how am i supposed to deal with like 3 entropy weavers and a huge ant nest on lair:4, that's insane. and all 3 of the downstairs are clustered just south of the ant nest so i can't really escape to continue progressing If you've got some pretty good evocations, a resistible wand can help. They have exactly as much MR as a hydra, so don't even give it a shot if you've barely touched the skill. They also can't see invisible, so give that potion you'd been saving for Ghost Moths and Oklobs a shot. Crimson Harvest: Just in case I'll cite the relevant learndb entries for the branch order quote:1. Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot My own attempt to write up a branch guide just about now was starting to ramble, I could try to write one up later if there's an interest. There are a few points I'll salvage, though.
There are a lot more caveats and depth I could go on about, but that should tide you over until you've gotten a few 2+ rune splats under your belt. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 04:19
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entropy weavers can SInv though, it's really annoying. They can sinv, are fast, corrode, and have multiple attacks, and are way too hard for something i ran into 3 of on lair:4
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Feb 21, 2017 04:25
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W E L Pquote:1150295 InternetKraken the Grand Scion (level 27, 0/195 HPs) This is another game I should of just bailed on extended but bad RNG makes me stubborn and I try to provwe I'm good enough to beat it. Well I wasn't. I had 13 runes, just needed to do Ghenna and Tartarus. The reason I hadn't done Tar is because I couldn't get rN+++. The game didn't spawn a single ring of life protection and only one artifact ring with rN+. Come the gently caress on. I even tried hunting down the pearl dragon in Pan to get its hide. Might not of died if I hadn't accidentally gone down a shaft on Geh:6 because I lost track of the floors. Or if Hell Effects hadn't spawned a brimstone fiend and hellion right on top of me. Or if I didn't have blurry vision so I could read a scroll of blinking to escape. Thanks malmutate! I don't even know what to play now. LordSloth posted:They also can't see invisible Somewhere, Darok's eyebrow begins twitching in rage.
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Feb 21, 2017 04:29
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Internet Kraken posted:I don't even know what to play now. Play a gargoyle and become unstoppable.
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Feb 21, 2017 04:53
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Ieoh Jian is really fun and my attempts at TrMo with it have been a blast but I keep getting way too confident and killed by hydras.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:41
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someone awful. posted:entropy weavers can SInv though, it's really annoying. They can sinv, are fast, corrode, and have multiple attacks, and are way too hard for something i ran into 3 of on lair:4 Yeah, I think all of those combined are a little too much for Lair unless it's maybe a branch end. I actually died to one earlier because I forgot to check their speed figuring "they have to be standard speed considering how nasty they are"
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Feb 21, 2017 05:57
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Got 15-Rune with Ieoh Jian Council. So uh... this god is really really strong. Whirlwind+Wall Jump+Lash means you have nearly perfect positioning. More than once did I wall jump off irregular walls to kick across maps super fast and avoid certain death. Stabbing Antaeus to death in record time and blowing up Royal Jelly in a single turn were hilarious. Getting Fencer Gloves and being Minotaur meant I was blending enemies non-stop without even needing to blow Clouds. IJC is a whole new way to play melee in this game. I love it
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Feb 21, 2017 06:01
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I want to share this picture I found, while looking through frog pictures while discussing Barachians. I hope you enjoy it.
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Feb 21, 2017 06:38
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Interesting changes to transmuter damage in trunk. Blade hands, statue form and dragon form no longer get bonus base damage from stats, but rather have a fixed base damage per form. This puts to rest my dream of trying to do gozag -> chei on an octopode and trying to one shot hell lords. It will be interesting to see how this affects transmuter balance. I have a question for the devs, if someone has the time to answer. Do the average stats used to derive the new damage account for the strength boost in dragon form? The damage numbers seem pretty low if the learndb is right. LearnDB says dragon form's base damage is 18 + str*(2/3), assume a non chei dragon has a str of 14 + 10 =24, that's 34 base damage, higher than the new number at a much lower strength than many dragon form characters would actually have. Dragon form is pretty delicately balanced against the others and really needs its absurd damage output to keep up.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:27
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To be wholly clear, transmuter forms still get bonus damage from stats - it's just applied as bonus damage, not compounded as additional base damage and bonus damage. The flat damage change is intended to bring it in line with every other weapon in the game. We'll be monitoring the effects of this change.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:31
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Interesting changes to transmuter damage in trunk. Blade hands, statue form and dragon form no longer get bonus base damage from stats, but rather have a fixed base damage per form. This puts to rest my dream of trying to do gozag -> chei on an octopode and trying to one shot hell lords. It will be interesting to see how this affects transmuter balance. I have a question for the devs, if someone has the time to answer. Do the average stats used to derive the new damage account for the strength boost in dragon form? The damage numbers seem pretty low if the learndb is right. LearnDB says dragon form's base damage is 18 + str*(2/3), assume a non chei dragon has a str of 14 + 10 =24, that's 34 base damage, higher than the new number at a much lower strength than many dragon form characters would actually have. Dragon form is pretty delicately balanced against the others and really needs its absurd damage output to keep up. This annoys me because I have been having fun with ogre transmuters now that the fun of using GSC has been dampened significantly.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:41
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Mr. Lobe posted:This annoys me because I have been having fun with ogre transmuters now that the fun of using GSC has been dampened significantly. I am sorry! I try to add as much fun into the game as I can, but we do have to make sure that we stick by our core principles and philosophies, for the long-term health of Crawl. Speaking entirely off the record, and you shouldn't take this as prophecy, but I think these numbers could stand to be buffed a little bit. We'll see how Transmuters perform over the next few weeks with the flat numbers. Personally, I think the early benefits will outweigh the impact of the late changes.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:49
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I think ogre transmuter is still really good though. Basically good aptitudes for a transmuter and gigantic HP. But I expect they'll mostly want to stop at blade hands now. Overall I think this is a good change. I'm just worried the numbers aren't right. I can't imagine dragon form being enticing to anyone except maybe draconians, octopodes or felids at this point. That might just be because I hate blade hands, since it being the best, easiest to cast and most available transmutation ruins the other, more fun ones.
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Feb 21, 2017 08:08
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Thanks for all the help, everyone. Today I got my first rune, and then got a rune again on 2 subsequent characters. One of them is still alive even.
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Feb 21, 2017 08:49
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On entropy weavers you guys are 100% correct, they have see invisible. Double-checked it in the game. Weird thing though, the http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=entropy+weaver bot doesn't show the see invis flag that other monsters like titans get. Looking at mon-data.h I don't see a difference Anyways, I finally ascended another character after a week of amazingly lovely luck with shaft traps. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LordSloth/morgue-LordSloth-20170221-062059.txt http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/lordsloth.html I'ts my third highest scoring game, but that's not what has me excited - I looked at my player sheet for the first time in a long while. I got five runes with my lowest ever turncount and duration, which I'm pretty happy about. 67,449 turns and 05:10:10! By comparison, my first ever win took over fifteen hours for 6 runes.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:26
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Losing a character with a battleaxe of freezing because I had no remove curse scrolls on D:9 and I wielded a cursed blowgun to kite a two-headed ogre is really great, imo.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:43
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100% your own drat fault? We just had a conversation on how comically unlikely it is to get hosed by cursed items in modern day crawl. You literally tried on a item of unknown curse status, knowing you had no remove curse scrolls, in the middle of combat no less. Or maybe I'm misreading your post and you're actually being self-deprecating - Then yes, good work, you don hosed up, put a frame on it!
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Feb 21, 2017 11:19
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vOv posted:Losing a character with a battleaxe of freezing because I had no remove curse scrolls on D:9 and I wielded a cursed blowgun to kite a two-headed ogre is really great, imo. Picking up a ranged weapon like a blowgun, sheesh, found your first mistake. If it makes you feel better Battleaxes of Freezing aren't the rarest of items so you probably can find another one in short time and relive your past glory?
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Feb 21, 2017 15:58
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Not as bad as when I found Frostbite on like D5 and then died a couple floors later.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:00
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