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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Why are amphorae pointy at the bottom? Doesn't that make them more difficult to stand up? They were designed to be carried by ship. Ships would use sand for ballast, and the pointy end of the amphora could be stuck in the sand.
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Feb 19, 2017 22:52
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Why are amphorae pointy at the bottom? Doesn't that make them more difficult to stand up? They had rack things when they were standing around loose but they were really good in terms of volume efficiency, because the pointy bottoms allowed them to sit in a sort of interlocking pattern when loaded into a boat or warehouse.
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Feb 19, 2017 22:53
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They had racks. There are other kinds of shipping containers that aren't pointy but have little nubs on the bottom to lock into the racks. I believe you can also lay amphorae together in layers alternating directions and they fit together well.
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Feb 20, 2017 04:16
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They also made it easier to pour from, since you could grab it by the bottom and hold one of the handles, though that mostly applies to the smaller versions.
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Feb 20, 2017 11:36
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I've been wondering about that, since some amphorae were pretty heavy and the handles seem like they might break if you hold it by them. But I guess they carried them by the shoulder, and held them underneath with one hand while holding the handle with the other when pouring?
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Feb 20, 2017 23:10
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Grevling posted:I've been wondering about that, since some amphorae were pretty heavy and the handles seem like they might break if you hold it by them. But I guess they carried them by the shoulder, and held them underneath with one hand while holding the handle with the other when pouring? i feel like if the handles were too fragile to use, they would just not bother with them.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:46
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Yeah, we're talking about a design that was wide spread and used for the better part of a thousand years. If nothing else we have to assume that it had a lot of utility, even if we have trouble seeing exactly how it would be used today.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:50
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I recall reading how they stack and interlock causing less shifting in the hold. Also easier to make than flat bottom vessels.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:59
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You ever drink a jug of carlo rossi using just one hand and those tiny glass handles? Kinda like that.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:03
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ughhhh posted:You ever drink a jug of carlo rossi using just one hand and those tiny glass handles? Kinda like that. You don't drink wine out of the amphora undiluted, though.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:50
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WoodrowSkillson posted:i feel like if the handles were too fragile to use, they would just not bother with them. You're probably right, but then they might have been mostly to hold for balance balance while you hold them underneath taking most of the weight, not so you could lift them directly off the ground by the handle. It would be interesting to see some experiments with that.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:01
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homullus posted:You don't drink wine out of the amphora undiluted, though. If you're an effeminate Corinthian maybe.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:14
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Drinking undiluted wine is totally a Gaul thing.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:25
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homullus posted:You don't drink wine out of the amphora undiluted, though. #CisalpinePriviliage
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Feb 21, 2017 18:45
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Arglebargle III posted:If you're an effeminate Corinthian maybe. f; b
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Feb 21, 2017 19:55
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Grevling posted:You're probably right, but then they might have been mostly to hold for balance balance while you hold them underneath taking most of the weight, not so you could lift them directly off the ground by the handle. It would be interesting to see some experiments with that. Pottery can be deceptively strong. You probably had to move an amphora around with more care than a modern container, but I would be very surprised if the handles weren't functional.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:58
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Grevling posted:You're probably right, but then they might have been mostly to hold for balance balance while you hold them underneath taking most of the weight, not so you could lift them directly off the ground by the handle. It would be interesting to see some experiments with that. My assumption is that dock workers have not changed, and just like I had to tell my package handlers every day not to grab boxes by the plastic straps, Roman overseers would have their dockhands yanking on those things by the handles all the time. If they broke really easily, that would be a giant pain in the rear end.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:17
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I bet there's an undiscovered wall painting of plan-position-grip-lift at a buried dockyard somewhere You're not allowed to lift that yet Gaius you gotta read the safety mural and pass a test on it first!
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Feb 21, 2017 20:23
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Round-bottom vessels are also more durable than flat ones, especially using the ceramic techniques (hand coil building and lighter wheels) that they used.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:43
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https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/08/22/priority-roman-times-salt-worth-weight-gold-soldiers-sometimes-paid-salt-hence-word-salary/ How accurate is this article? I don't remember ever reading about soldiers carrying salt around or salt wars or robbing salt stashes...
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Feb 22, 2017 00:41
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, we're talking about a design that was wide spread and used for the better part of a thousand years.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:50
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Doctor Malaver posted:https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/08/22/priority-roman-times-salt-worth-weight-gold-soldiers-sometimes-paid-salt-hence-word-salary/ Pretty sure it's bullshit fake etymology. That said the it's not like salt was never important, the Nian rebellion grew out of salt banditry into a pretty big thing.
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Feb 22, 2017 01:00
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Roman soldiers were paid in money, not salt. "Salary" certainly does seem to derive etymologically from salt, but while we're playing that game, we get the word "soldier" from the name of Diocletian's gold coin, the solidus. It's not clear what Latin salarium has to do with salt: it's been said that it was the name of a soldier's allowance for salt, but I don't know that there's any evidence whatsoever to support that. Meanwhile there's absolute poo poo tons of evidence to the effect that if you didn't pay soldiers money, they would probably kill you and find someone who would.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:03
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I would assume the word connection is something to do with salt being a necessity for life much like the money. I know of no evidence that salt was particularly rare or valuable in the Roman state. They knew how to get it out of seawater and a map of the empire suggests seawater was not in short supply.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:11
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Grand Fromage posted:I would assume the word connection is something to do with salt being a necessity for life much like the money. I know of no evidence that salt was particularly rare or valuable in the Roman state. They knew how to get it out of seawater and a map of the empire suggests seawater was not in short supply. I've always wondered why the conventional wisdom places such high value on salt when most of humanity has spent much of history near the coast.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:31
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Ynglaur posted:I've always wondered why the conventional wisdom places such high value on salt when most of humanity has spent much of history near the coast. Getting salt from evaporation is time-consuming and low-yield. It's essential for life and for food preservation, and humans have also NOT lived near salt water coasts for millennia.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:42
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homullus posted:Getting salt from evaporation is time-consuming and low-yield. It's essential for life and for food preservation, and humans have also NOT lived near salt water coasts for millennia.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:45
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Ynglaur posted:I've always wondered why the conventional wisdom places such high value on salt when most of humanity has spent much of history near the coast. It is valuable, it's just exaggerated a lot in modern history myths. If you tried to pay your soldiers in salt I expect the response would be "the gently caress is this?" and them stabbing you.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:48
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Grand Fromage posted:It is valuable, it's just exaggerated a lot in modern history myths. And then they'd salt the wounds, and you'd only have yourself to blame.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:50
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homullus posted:Getting salt from evaporation is time-consuming and low-yield. It's essential for life and for food preservation, and humans have also NOT lived near salt water coasts for millennia. Yeah, I would assume rock salt is a much more efficient source than seawater even if moderns think it's only good for roads in winter. People at Hallstatt in Austria were mining salt and trading it to Mediterranean peoples for booze for hundreds of years before there were emperors in Rome.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:52
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skasion posted:Roman soldiers were paid in money, not salt. "Salary" certainly does seem to derive etymologically from salt, but while we're playing that game, we get the word "soldier" from the name of Diocletian's gold coin, the solidus. Diocletian? That's statist fiat money bullshit. Leading ancient economists understood that salt is an intrinsic store of value and exchange. End the aerarium!
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Feb 22, 2017 02:57
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I'm not used to parodying how the new crop of right-wing crazies communicate, clearly I meant "fake news" instead of "bullshit".
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Feb 22, 2017 03:00
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Where was that list of what your favorite roman emperor says about you? It was cool and good and I want to know what is wrong with me for liking Diocletian. Also could salary just be some stipend for salt for the average soldier in addition to what they actually got paid?
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Feb 22, 2017 04:43
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Jack2142 posted:Where was that list of what your favorite roman emperor says about you? It was cool and good and I want to know what is wrong with me for liking Diocletian. Starts on page 449. E: and it was "favorite Roman" and the answer remains Agrippa 
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Feb 22, 2017 05:03
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Jack2142 posted:Where was that list of what your favorite roman emperor says about you? It was cool and good and I want to know what is wrong with me for liking Diocletian. It could be, but a lot of things could be. There is no clear answer to how the word arose, it seems safe to say that it had something to do with salt but we simply don't know.
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Feb 22, 2017 05:14
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Bobby Digital posted:Starts on page 449. Vespasian: Your stock response to a military coup is that "it might not be that bad". Or you struck it rich with a urine-related product. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 05:24
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The legions would've gotten a salt ration but that was just part of their normal supply.
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Feb 22, 2017 05:29
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Bobby Digital posted:Starts on page 449. You misspelled Aurelian Bro.
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Feb 22, 2017 06:41
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Bobby Digital posted:Starts on page 449. Pontius Pilate.
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Feb 22, 2017 07:26
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Grand Fromage posted:a map of the empire suggests seawater was not in short supply. A shame that this is too long for a thread title.
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Feb 22, 2017 07:29
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