UKMT February 2017 - Welcome to Tiny Train World

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Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Kurtofan posted:

they're retired

loving baby boomers ruining everything

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:19

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# ? May 12, 2024 16:12

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Jose posted:

i have no idea why anyone would vote to extend the wroking week

It's absurd, isn't it? He's also said he wants to cut 20 billion euros from health spending. Like how does he even appeal to the old?

Macron maybe has a chance despite him popping up out of nowhere and having no party (how does he even pick a PM???). If Fillion is the second-place candidate in the first round I feel like Le Pen is going to win.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:19

mfcrocker: Jan 31, 2004; Hot Rope Guy

Pissflaps posted:

People are unlikely to start taking you seriously if you insist on pretending people have said things they didn't.

I thought fake news was all the rage nowadays?

Corbs trying to hit May on the NHS at PMQs again. Doesn't seem to be working particularly well.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:22

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

jBrereton posted:

Man I hope the next GE is presaged by Corbyn going to I dunno Montserrat to apologise for the mediocre disaster relief while May goes and plants a shiny new flag in Pitcairn to show their attitudes towards ~~colonialism~~ pedophile coverups.

ftfy

Pissflaps posted:

The National Front are 'left wing'?

The BNP was running on an economic platform to the left of Labour in 2005/10. Didn't stop them being racist authoritarian shitwits, but if you only look at fiscal policy.

Nowdays it seems everyone wants privatize the NHS and police along with their anti-immigrant propaganda.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:22

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Dabir posted:

Hitler was not strictly speaking elected though? At least according to the documentary that was linked in here not so long ago.

He was as elected as any leader normally can be in a country with proportional representation. He was head of the party that won the largest share of the vote and therefore went on to head up a coalition government with the DNVP.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:25

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Jose posted:

i have no idea why anyone would vote to extend the wroking week

People with a delusional view of how hard they worked to get where they are who are resentful of others "not working hard enough" to get "what they deserve".

See: every discussion about welfare, ever

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:26

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

feedmegin posted:

He was as elected as any leader normally can be in a country with proportional representation. He was head of the party that won the largest share of the vote and therefore went on to head up a coalition government with the DNVP.

Misread this as 'DWP' and thought maybe he was the more moderate partner.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:30

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

This isn't really relative to any discussion going on just now, but one of Malatesta's letters keeps doing laps in the back of my mind, and I wanted to share it with the thread because it's interesting:

quote:

There are the �worker-minded� people, who consider having callous hands as being divinely imbued with all merits and all virtues; they protest if you dare talking about people and mankind, failing to swear on the sacred name of proletariat.

Now, it is a truth that history has made the proletariat the main instrument of the next social change, and that those fighting for the establishment of a society where all human beings are free and endowed with all the means to exercise their freedom, must rely mainly on the proletariat.

As today the hoarding of natural resources and capital created by the work of past and present generations is the main cause of the subjection of the masses and of all social wrongs, it is natural for those who have nothing, and therefore are more directly and clearly interested in sharing the means of production, to be the main agents of the necessary expropriation. This is why we address our propaganda more particularly to the proletarians, whose conditions of life, on the other hand, make it often impossible for them to rise and conceive a superior ideal. However, this is no reason for turning the poor into a fetish just because he is poor; neither it is a reason for encouraging him to believe that he is intrinsically superior, and that a condition surely not coming from his merit or his will gives him the right to do wrong to the others as the others did wrong to him. The tyranny of callous hands (which in practice is still the tyranny of few who no longer have callous hands, even if they had once), would not be less tough and wicked, and would not bear less lasting evils than the tyranny of gloved hands. Perhaps it would be less enlightened and more brutal: that is all.

Poverty would not be the horrible thing it is, if it did not produce moral brutishness as well as material harm and physical degradation, when prolonged from generation to generation. The poor have different faults than those produced in the privileged classes by wealth and power, but not better ones.

If the bourgeoisie produces the likes of Giolitti and Graziani and all the long succession of mankind�s torturers, from the great conquerors to the avid and bloodsucking petty bosses, it also produces the likes of Cafiero, Reclus and Kropotkine, and the many people that in any epoch sacrificed their class privileges to an ideal. If the proletariat gave and gives so many heroes and martyrs of the cause of human redemption, it also gives off the white guards, the slaughterers, the traitors of their own brothers, without which the bourgeois tyranny could not last a single day.

How can hatred be raised to a principle of justice, to an enlightened spirit of demand, when it is clear that evil is everywhere, and it depends upon causes that go beyond individual will and responsibility?

Let there be as much class struggle as one wishes, if by class struggle one means the struggle of the exploited against the exploiters for the abolition of exploitation. That struggle is a way of moral and material elevation, and it is the main revolutionary force that can be relied on.

Let there be no hatred, though, because love and justice cannot arise from hatred. Hatred brings about revenge, desire to be over the enemy, need to consolidate one�s superiority. Hatred can only be the foundation of new governments, if one wins, but it cannot be the foundation of anarchy.

Unfortunately, it is easy to understand the hatred of so many wretches whose bodies and sentiments are tormented and rent by society: however, as soon as the hell in which they live is lit up by an ideal, hatred disappears and a burning desire of fighting for the good of all takes over.

For this reason true haters cannot be found among our comrades, although there are many rhetoricians of hatred. They are like the poet, who is a good and peaceful father, but he sings of hatred, because this gives him the opportunity of composing good verses ... or perhaps bad ones. They talk about hatred, but their hatred is made of love.

For this reason I love them, even if they call me names.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:36

OzyMandrill: Aug 12, 2013; Look upon my words
and despair

Jose posted:

i have no idea why anyone would vote to extend the wroking week

Because France has very strict maximum hours legislation - when we got bought out by a French company many years ago, we ended up fielding stuff that they couldn't do because they had run out of hours. If you work minimum wage jobs but struggle to cover the bills and the government says you can't work more hours, then either wages need to rise or hours do. So, it is obvious that the poor must be made to work harder to earn their pittances. But you sell it as 'we would give you more money (as hours) but the regulations stop us! Vote for us and we will let you work 60 hour weeks and then be rolling in money!' It's another flavour of republican style FYGM.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:40

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

OzyMandrill posted:

Because France has very strict maximum hours legislation

It used to, you can do overtime nowadays and the average working week is longer than the 35 on paper hours you can do (see the EUMT's labour stats).

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:43

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Pissflaps posted:

The National Front are 'left wing'?

Fascists have used left-wing economic rhetoric from the very start:

quote:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

The real miracle of the modern right-wing is that for the most part they've managed to convince people to vote for a platform that is nakedly "More money for the rich, gently caress the poor".

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:46

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Big Tone lays into the Daily Mail

https://twitter.com/tonyblairoffice/status/834376552204947457

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:46

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Chris Bryant is claiming the Russians interfered in our elections, too.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:47

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Baron Corbyn posted:

Chris Bryant is claiming the Russians interfered in our elections, too.

Finally all guilt from Labour for running such a poo poo campaign in 2015 they couldn't beat Cameron at a low ebb can be washed off by the same "it was russians" garbage as the Clinton campaign.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:50

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

That explains that council by election result.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:50

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Is Labour's Digital Czar Tom Watson hiring Russian Hackers to Read YOUR Emails?

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:54

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

jBrereton posted:

Finally all guilt from Labour for running such a poo poo campaign in 2015 they couldn't beat Cameron at a low ebb can be washed off by the same "it was russians" garbage as the Clinton campaign.

Trump, or at least the people around him, are obviously compromised by the Russians but why the gently caress would they care if they got Miliband or Cameron? Hey, at least it would explain the recurring theme in the press of Red Ed being so weak and how he'd be so intimidated by Big Bad Vlad.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:54

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Baron Corbyn posted:

Trump, or at least the people around him, are obviously compromised by the Russians but why the gently caress would they care if they got Miliband or Cameron? Hey, at least it would explain the recurring theme in the press of Red Ed being so weak and how he'd be so intimidated by Big Bad Vlad.

bcause getting cameron gets them brexit

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:55

Looke: Aug 2, 2013

I'm pretty sure the Russians interfered with the Bristol mayoral elections in 2012 as well

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:55

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Baron Corbyn posted:

Chris Bryant is claiming the Russians interfered in our elections, too.

Chris Bryant is a silly billy.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:57

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Baron Corbyn posted:

Trump, or at least the people around him, are obviously compromised by the Russians but why the gently caress would they care if they got Miliband or Cameron? Hey, at least it would explain the recurring theme in the press of Red Ed being so weak and how he'd be so intimidated by Big Bad Vlad.

My favourite part was when Fancy Bears sent emails alleged from Labour's HQ to ask for some patronising mugs and an ideological gravestone to be erected, because Miliband was going to stop them getting a warm-water port at Sevastopol.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 13:59

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

The only way they were ever going to retake the Straits of the Dardanelles was by injecting Ed Miliband with a substance that made him get married to his long-standing partner because someone thought that would make Christians vote for him.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:02

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

TheRat posted:

For what it's worth, Mark Blyth seemed fairly certain that Le Pen would win last I saw. Something about her party being the only actual left wing/workers policy party (if you ignore the fascism/racism)

What about the actual communists?

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:03

mfcrocker: Jan 31, 2004; Hot Rope Guy

Looke posted:

I'm pretty sure the Russians interfered with the Bristol mayoral elections in 2012 as well

How we ended up voting yes to elected mayors I'll never know

(that's a lie, it was stupid wanks wanting a version of Boris to get the arena built)

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:03

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Badger of Basra posted:

What about the actual communists?

Lutte Ouvri�re 2021.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:03

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Baron Corbyn posted:

Trump, or at least the people around him, are obviously compromised by the Russians but why the gently caress would they care if they got Miliband or Cameron? Hey, at least it would explain the recurring theme in the press of Red Ed being so weak and how he'd be so intimidated by Big Bad Vlad.

I don't actually believe they interfered with the election itself*, but you could certainly say that Cameron's much more laissez-faire economic policy and frankly shambolic energy policy are both directly and hugely advantageous to Russian plutocrats. If they could have chosen someone to be PM it would have been Farage but if they could only nudge things a few points then Cameron would have been their choice.

* but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out they were working, with technical and with human sources, within the parties to get an idea what was going on - that's what intelligence agencies do.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:04

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Badger of Basra posted:

What about the actual communists?

I meant among the three viable candidates.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:05

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

TheRat posted:

I meant among the three viable candidates.

Like I'm sure they have reasons that seem really important in a bubble but from an outside perspective, the unwillingness of Hamon and Melenchon to put their differences outside and let us see an election won by someone other than an actual fascist or a neoliberal shite would be fantastic.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:10

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

Pissflaps posted:

Big Tone lays into the Daily Mail

https://twitter.com/tonyblairoffice/status/834376552204947457

He's right to criticise the hypocrisy of the Daily Mail, but he loses it at the end when he starts going 'don't blame me, I SUPPORTED the indefinite detention and abuse of British citizens without trial'.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:19

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Baron Corbyn posted:

Like I'm sure they have reasons that seem really important in a bubble but from an outside perspective, the unwillingness of Hamon and Melenchon to put their differences outside and let us see an election won by someone other than an actual fascist or a neoliberal shite would be fantastic.

Same reason the Labour 'Moderates' won't accept the Labour Left, really. There's narcissism of small differences to contend with and in France it's ramped up to "gently caress YOUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUUUU" but in French and with heavy metal in the background.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:19

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

TheRat posted:

I meant among the three viable candidates.

Maybe Melenchon would be viable if the French workers voted for him instead of a fascist.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:21

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Tesseraction posted:

Same reason the Labour 'Moderates' won't accept the Labour Left, really. There's narcissism of small differences to contend with and in France it's ramped up to "gently caress YOUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUUUU" but in French and with heavy metal in the background.

Hope it's French heavy metal. Some Deathspell Omega or Monarch.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:23

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Tesseraction posted:

"gently caress YOUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUUUU" but in French and with heavy metal in the background.

I'd listen to this.

Pissflaps posted:

https://twitter.com/tonyblairoffice/status/834376552204947457

The Tony Blair Office sounds like an institute that keeps track of his whereabouts to warn people in advance.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:24

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Tony Blair is a loving lunatic, news at 11

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:26

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Tesseraction posted:

Same reason the Labour 'Moderates' won't accept the Labour Left, really. There's narcissism of small differences to contend with and in France it's ramped up to "gently caress YOUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUU" "NO gently caress YOUUUUUUUU" but in French and with heavy metal in the background.

the Labour moderates would be detecting to Macron in droves if they were French. Like I can understand someone like Umunna or Kendall agitating under Corbyn because they have very different politics, but Hamon and Melenchon both seem to be actual leftists and are clearly better options than anyone else in the west is getting. It's just sad they're splitting each other's vote when France could give the rest of us some hope.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:29

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

The Tony Blair office sounds like it knows how to issue a press release.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:29

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Indeed. To think how narrowly we avoided Brexit. Thanks Tone.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:42

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Baron Corbyn posted:

It's just sad they're splitting each other's vote when France could give the rest of us some hope.

This is thefrenchleft.txt

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:43

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Regarde Aduck posted:

Indeed. To think how narrowly we avoided Brexit. Thanks Tone.

Brexit wouldn't have happened on Tony's watch.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:44

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# ? May 12, 2024 16:12

Wolfsbane: Jul 29, 2009; What time is it, Eccles?

TheRat posted:

For what it's worth, Mark Blyth seemed fairly certain that Le Pen would win last I saw. Something about her party being the only actual left wing/workers policy party (if you ignore the fascism/racism)

I remember seeing that video too. It was apparently a newsnight interview, but all I can find is this one, from the "Brexit Channel" (lol). Mark Blyth starts at 3:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9T_5S5638

# ? Feb 22, 2017 14:58

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