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twistedmentat posted:I honestly think it's weird they made them posers rather than real Mandalorians. You have the most visible and popular members and they say "they're not really them". Maybe they wanted to get as far away from Legends as they could. In that, the Fetts are both Mandalore, which is funny becuase they run around as low ranking bounty hunters rather than the leaders of an entire culture. I wonder if they called them Mandalore the Absent. I don't know if they're actually posers. The article says that Sabine's New Mandalorians disavowed Fett and claimed he was an imposter, which is a lot more interesting. Either Fett was telling the truth and Sabine's peaceniks were covering their asses, or he's lying bounty hunter scum with stolen armor and the ambiguity is cool.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:13
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"The idea that Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian, that's something that comes directly from George." I'd say that if George Lucas and David Filoni say that Jango isn't a Mandalorian, then he isn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs21QP1czZg&t=385s I get the point that it's weird how they made the Fetts imposters after everyone assumed they were Mandalorians, and after it had already become their identity in the eyes of the fans. It does makes sense to me why they did that, though. I imagine as Lucas and Filoni created and fleshed out their vision for the Mandalorians that they found the Fetts didn't really fit into that culture. And it was pretty convenient that there was no proof or connection to Mandalore in the movies aside from the armor. Personally, I had a positive reaction to finding out they weren't real Mandalorians. I think it's pretty plausible and that it makes the Fetts interesting in a different way. And even in the old EU there was precedent for a Mandalorian poser, Jodo Kast. Edit: Watching more of that video, at around 9:43 Filoni talks about Boba's armor being a combination of different pieces of Mando armor that he's found over the years. "There must be something that happens between here and where Boba is getting all this weird green, yellow, and red armor, and we'll just have to wait and see." Sounds like they have it in mind that a lot of Boba's armor will come from the Mandalorians who die in the civil war Sabine just started. Minnesota Manatee fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 22:38
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Lothal sucked. Every location was either grassy field, lone highway on a grassy field or generic city surrounded by grassy fields.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:42
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The lore around Boba Fett and the Mandalorians is complex, self-contradictory, and has been revised numerous times over decades, even before the Disney purchase. Here's what I have in my head, but it's by no means 100% accurate or comprehensive: Pre-Attack of the Clones: Comics, Books, and Etc Boba Fett's true name is Jaster Mereel, who served as a 'Journeyman Protector' of a world called Concord Dawn. Some vague and dark trauma led him to either becoming or re-assuming the identity of Boba Fett, one of the last surviving members of the Mandalorian Supercommandos. The Mandalorian Supercommandos were mega-soldiers who fought for the Empire in the Clone Wars and were led by an individual named Fenn Shysa, who may or may not have styled himself with the title of Mandalore. Around this time, there are various references to 'Mandalorian armor' and such, which may or may not have its origins on a world/culture called Mandalore. Sometime after the Battle of Endor, Boba Fett reforms the Mandalorian Supercommandos and fights the Yuuzhan Vong (not sure if this happens pre- or post- AOTC) Post-Attack of the Clones: the New Jedi Order, KOTOR, and Open Season Mandalore is/was an interplanetary empire of warriors with a highly-ingrained sense of honor and conduct. Various iterations of their society fought various wars against various Jedi Orders for various reasons - the enmity between Jedi and Mandalore is longstanding and bitter. Prior to the Clone Wars, Mandalore is beset by a brutal civil war between Mandalore Jaster Mereel and his True Mandalorians and Pre Vizla's revanchist Death Watch. The war spills onto the world of Concord Dawn, where Jaster Mereel meets an orphaned farmboy named Jango Fett. Jango is raised by Mereel and eventually rises to a rank of high esteem and heir-apparent to the title of Mandalore, despite being an outsider. Death Watch manipulates the Jedi Knights (led by Jedi Master Count Dooku) into slaughtering the last of Mereel's faction, and Mereel himself dies before or after this. Death Watch reigns on Mandalore and Jango Fett runs to the fringes to become a bounty hunter. By the time of the Galactic Civil War, and possibly even as soon as the Clone Wars, Mandalore is a ghost of what it once was and their society is either in decline or obliterated entirely. Jango trains multiple clone units of the Grand Army of the Republic - notably the Commandos (from the xbox game and atrocious mandobro karen traviss novels) and the Null clones (bad batches? failed arcs? can't remember) - with a number of other Mandalorian outcasts, teaches them Mando'a, and heralds them and the GAR as the last remnant of the now-dead Mandalorian culture. Around this time, various characters who were once described as Mandalorian Supercommandos are retconned into having been clones. Various features of the clone troopers across media are retconned into being Mandalorian trappings, or the other way around (one I remember specifically are the 'eye' markings around several clone commanders' helmets, like Rex). Boba is raised as Jango's son and taught to be a bounty hunter. At a certain point, Boba goes into hiding on Concord Dawn and takes the name and role of Jaster Mereel, Journeyman Protector. Around this time he falls in love with a lady bounty hunter and they have a kid who shows up in the NJO books, I'm pretty sure. Sometime after the Battle of Endor, Boba Fett is dying from ~CLONE AGE DISEASE~ and is pressured to take on the role of Mandalore and revive Mandalorian culture. He does this and fights against the Yuuzhan Vong, taking heavy concessions from the New Republic for his service. Mandalore begins exporting bysshk, which is super-mando-metal and makes their society super rich or something. Post-The Clone Wars: Satine and Sabine, Rebels, and the New Disney Order The Clone Wars adds new and (to some fans) boggling layers to Mandalorian society, retaining Death Watch as a revanchist faction but introducing a senate, government, and noncombatant citizens to make Mandalore more than a planet of space-warlords. During the Clone Wars, Mandalorian society is in political upheaval due to the frictions between "legitimate" Mandalore and Death Watch. Death Watch ascends to Mandalore's seat of power, and Pre Vizla becomes Mandalore. Maul kills pre Vizla and becomes Mandalore. Darth Sidious rebuke his one-time apprentice and presumably removes him as Mandalore. Concord Dawn is a world controlled by Mandalore, which is now more of a functional mini-hegemony within the Republic/Empire. It is stewarded by Fenn Rao (nod to Fenn Shysa?) and his Protectors. Either due to, or in spite of, the immediate ascension-and-dissolution of both Death Watch and Maul, Mandalorian culture has apparently reverted to its clan-based warlord structure. Jango Fett is apparently a Mandalorian pretender and bounty hunter with unknown origins - he donates his genes as the baseline for the Grand Army of the Republic, but post-Disney I haven't seen much of anything which confirms or denies a sort of 'Mandalorian heritage' in the mind of the clones or their progenitor. One of these clones, Jango's "son" Boba Fett, spends his adolescent years bossing around the likes of Bossk, Dengar, and Aurra Sing. Boba Fett meets his end in the Great Pit of Carkoon, vored to death by the Sarlacc tin can made man fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 23:01
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I'll add some stuff from the mid-90s Tales of the Jedi comics, which took place 4,000 years before the movies. In that the Mandalorians were a mercenary people of raiders. Mandalore led an army to raid the Teta System, which was defended by the Jedi-turned-Sith Ulic Qel-Droma. Mandalore and Ulic fought in single combat. Ulic won but spared Mandalore's life, who pledged his Mandalorian army to the Sith's war. Later the Mandalorians got chased off of Onderon and fled to the Dxun moon. The duel between Maul and Pre Vizla seemed to be a throwback to the fight between Mandalore and Ulic.
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Feb 21, 2017 23:13
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I'm super bummed that Sabine isn't part of the Ghost crew anymore, or that they didn't take her in the direction I thought they were going (thought she was gonna do some Aragorn type ROTK poo poo). But drat, the fight between her and Gar was such a badass way to close out her arc at that point. Just too bad that once her narrative ramped up, it quickly cooled down. Was hoping to see her rise up even further.
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Feb 21, 2017 23:57
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Getting out of Lothal was the best thing they could've done. If they had stuck around lothal for two more seasons doing heists and staying with the same people, I would've abandoned the show. It's great seeing all these new people and cool planets. If we hadn't left lothal, we wouldn't have gotten that fantastic Moriban episode, or the episode where Zeb finds the new home planet.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:04
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True. I think my problems more with the Jedi if anything. I just want a show about Rebels doing rebel things though. You'd still miss Morriban with that, but somewhere along the way regular people have to be shown to be able to do poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:24
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Is there even a direct reference to mandalorians in the original trilogy or the prequels? I'm just happy that they've kept Boba Fett being the guy every characters gets to beat up at some point so they can show off their skill. Luke taking him out while blinded with a flash grenade is like my favorite thing in the new canon.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:38
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Surprised nobody's posted this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY2_qUEIzvU
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Feb 22, 2017 01:36
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Oh poo poo, he's going to get found out by telling the rebels the override code for those robots.
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Feb 22, 2017 01:40
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Oh poo poo, he's going to get found out by telling the rebels the override code for those robots. Ooooo. I'll be surprised if this doesn't actually pan out, because that's such a Thrawny thing to do!
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Feb 22, 2017 01:43
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Wulf Yularen showing up is a great way to show that transition into the villainous Empire, since by canon chronology he begins as the heroic admiral and liaison for Anakin/Obi-Wan, and was last seen sitting on the Death Star's evil hell council (precursor to a proper Mofference, I'm sure, dark greetings all). Here, he's presumably in his role as head of the ISB, since his expertise is to help root out a spy. I wonder if we'll get anything in the episode to indicate if he's a true believer who is glad the traitorous Jedi are dead, or if he's a company man just going along with what's happening above his head. Another neat detail is that Thrawn's codeword to override his loyal robots from pummeling him to death is "Rukh", which is the name of the Thrawn's noghri bodyguard who eventually assassinates the proud Grand Admiral when he least expects it
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Feb 22, 2017 01:58
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tin can made man posted:Wulf Yularen showing up is a great way to show that transition into the villainous Empire, since by canon chronology he begins as the heroic admiral and liaison for Anakin/Obi-Wan, and was last seen sitting on the Death Star's evil hell council (precursor to a proper Mofference, I'm sure, dark greetings all). Here, he's presumably in his role as head of the ISB, since his expertise is to help root out a spy. I wonder if we'll get anything in the episode to indicate if he's a true believer who is glad the traitorous Jedi are dead, or if he's a company man just going along with what's happening above his head. I'm kind of hoping he's largely the same guy who just happens to believe the propaganda.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:25
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banned from Starbucks posted:Lothal sucked. Every location was either grassy field, lone highway on a grassy field or generic city surrounded by grassy fields. The shanty town was pretty cool. As was the capital city. Underdeveloped except for the capital and some Hoovervilles is a setting ripe for opportunity. Instead of one place that they can develop, we get a lot of places that all become generic.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:38
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tin can made man posted:Wulf Yularen showing up is a great way to show that transition into the villainous Empire, since by canon chronology he begins as the heroic admiral and liaison for Anakin/Obi-Wan, and was last seen sitting on the Death Star's evil hell council (precursor to a proper Mofference, I'm sure, dark greetings all). Here, he's presumably in his role as head of the ISB, since his expertise is to help root out a spy. I wonder if we'll get anything in the episode to indicate if he's a true believer who is glad the traitorous Jedi are dead, or if he's a company man just going along with what's happening above his head. And I'm pretty sure the McQuarrie hives behind Kallus are a nod to Killik Twilight from Tatooine Ghost.
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Feb 22, 2017 06:00
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tin can made man posted:The lore around Boba Fett and the Mandalorians is complex, self-contradictory, and has been revised numerous times over decades, even before the Disney purchase. Here's what I have in my head, but it's by no means 100% accurate or comprehensive: Yea, and don't forget you had Karen Traviss writing them as they were the super bestest at everything everywhere anytime but they were all farmers and cared about the land, but also built the best ships in the galaxy and all kinds of dumb poo poo. I felt after 300 came out, there was an underlying attempt to make them feel more like Spartans, but that may have just been me. I actually prefer the current incarnation of the Mandalorians over any previous one. I love the idea that their culture being so war like finally led the entire planet to ruin and the survivors were all "gently caress this we just want to live" and banished the douchebags who still wanted to fight. I also really liked the doomed love between Satine and Obi-Wan.
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Feb 22, 2017 06:12
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twistedmentat posted:I also really liked the doomed love between Satine and Obi-Wan. It also provided the context of how Obi-Wan, who was generally on the ball, totally kept thinking Anakin would pull his head out of his rear end re: Padme.
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Feb 22, 2017 07:48
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Sharon Olds told a good friend of mine that you only get to use the word "love" three times in your life as a poet. Love is a powerful thing and should be sparsely used. Rules are made to be broken but they also exist for a reason.
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Feb 22, 2017 08:15
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The specific way the Fetts were made not Mandalorian in a contrived throwaway bit of exposition is kind of a tell that it was Lucas being petty and putting a hole in an EU origin for a character that had become more popular and well-known than his own world building. Same thing with Moriband.
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Feb 23, 2017 04:21
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You can tell Jango's not a real mandalorian because rather than telling Obi-Wan he's just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe, he would have gone on a long rant about the honour and strength of Mandalore.
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Feb 23, 2017 04:58
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He was a Mandalorian weeaboo.
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Feb 23, 2017 06:40
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Roach Warehouse posted:You can tell Jango's not a real mandalorian because rather than telling Obi-Wan he's just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe, he would have gone on a long rant about the honour and strength of Mandalore. How do you know somebody is Mandalorian? They'll loving go on about the glories of their proud and noble people while sprinkling in dumb words like Mando'a in the first five minutes of talking to them.
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Feb 23, 2017 07:05
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Look, I'm not saying any of the Mandalorian poo poo was ever good. They're basically watered down Klingons. I'm just saying Lucas has a definite track record for being extremely petty about stuff that fans were passionate about, and it's funny that he went out of his way to do it in the most overt and dickish way possible.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:00
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Moon Slayer posted:He was a Mandalorian weeaboo. Mandaboo
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Feb 23, 2017 14:35
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Lucas embraced fans and fan ideas more than perhaps any other creator, so it seems weird to find people accusing him of changing things only because they were popular.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:39
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He disagreed with the widely-held fan theory that Han shot first. It's not without precedent.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:15
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Moon Slayer posted:He was a Mandalorian weeaboo. We don't get to hear Bobba talk a lot in the OT. Well, at least not on his own time. When he was off the job, he would often go to Mandaboo conventions where he would be the talk of the convention for his impressive cosplay of a Mandalorian soldier. He loved it when actual Mandalorian soldiers would attend so he could get parts of his armor signed by a true Mandalorian. It's a little known fact he only turned to bounty hunting to afford the upkeep for his Mandalorian Armor cosplay and con going habits. Like father, like son.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:43
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tsob posted:Lucas embraced fans and fan ideas more than perhaps any other creator, so it seems weird to find people accusing him of changing things only because they were popular. Not only fan ideas but EU ideas when he liked them, too. See: naming the galactic capitol Coruscant and cameoing Aayla Secura and Quinlan Vos, etc. My understanding was that he fairly regularly checked out the comics, and apparently still does, given that he bought a bunch of the artwork from the recent Han Solo miniseries.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:13
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punchymcpunch posted:He disagreed with the widely-held fan theory that Han shot first. It's not without precedent. Not exactly a great example given he was the one that came up with the idea of Han shooting first and then changing it, to which fans reacted.
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Feb 23, 2017 20:39
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Chickenwalker posted:The specific way the Fetts were made not Mandalorian in a contrived throwaway bit of exposition is kind of a tell that it was Lucas being petty and putting a hole in an EU origin for a character that had become more popular and well-known than his own world building. Same thing with Moriband. Canon aside, I always figured Boba Fett wore the armor because he found it somewhere and thought it was dope, not because it was some precious family heirloom. Of course, that was before we knew it was actually the most common armor in the galaxy less than 20 years before.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:30
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I remember as a kid everybody thought that Boba's armor was Gen1 Stormtrooper armor. That may just have been on my playground but that and Vader's volcano accident were common knowledge in the '80s.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:35
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Wookieepedia is obviously a treasure trove of collected and collated knowledge of all things Star Wars, but is there anything that traces the changes to various stories over the years? I'd love to know how Vader's (and everything else's) back story changed around before the prequels were released.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:32
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Wookieepedia is obviously a treasure trove of collected and collated knowledge of all things Star Wars, but is there anything that traces the changes to various stories over the years? The Historiography of Vader?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:21
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Wookieepedia is obviously a treasure trove of collected and collated knowledge of all things Star Wars, but is there anything that traces the changes to various stories over the years? Copying/modifying a post I made in the Star Wars book barn thread, because this book is exactly what you want: If you want more about the different drafts, this book is a must read. The Secret History of Star Wars by Michael Kaminski. He poured over the various drafts of the first six movies (it was written in 2008), interviews with Lucas and Kurtz and Kasdan (and others), and published notes to put together a timeline of what Star Wars was at various times in it's history. It's amazing. I've sang it's praise in the book barn thread various times, and summed up some crazy poo poo from it (like the original drafts of ROTJ), but it's universally accepted in the thread as the definitive history. Every once in a while I pick it up and read a random chapter. We were clearing out books recently, and my wife held it up and said, "This book has 4 bookmarks in it, so I'm guessing you want to keep it?" Just keep in mind this is (I believe) the only book this guy has ever written (it started as a PDF he posted on his website), so the writing is occasionally a little rough.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:56
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thrawn527 posted:Copying/modifying a post I made in the Star Wars book barn thread, because this book is exactly what you want: This is awesome, thank you! I'm definitely going to check it out.
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Feb 24, 2017 15:37
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New ep is up on the XD site/app. dammit, Kallus!
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Feb 25, 2017 17:56
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On the flip-side, it's pretty great that when Thrawn finally does realize it, it's in the Thrawn-iest way possible. 
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Feb 25, 2017 18:33
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Cross-Section posted:On the flip-side, it's pretty great that when Thrawn finally does realize it, it's in the Thrawn-iest way possible. This, 1000%. Also, poo poo.
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Feb 25, 2017 18:44
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Shbobdb posted:I remember as a kid everybody thought that Boba's armor was Gen1 Stormtrooper armor. That may just have been on my playground but that and Vader's volcano accident were common knowledge in the '80s. I remember my dad telling me about the fight above the volcano and Anakin falling into it back in the late 80s. I don't remember if he read it in Starlog or got it from somewhere else, but that was common knowledge for me too.
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