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Heartcatch posted:I'm really surprised that Warlords are such a rarity in duels given headbutt spam effectiveness. It's usually Orochi or Wardens that are the most popular in my experience. Warlord headbutt spam is effective but it is a slow death and if your defense is shaky, your opponent will start edging you out. With Warden's, while you do have to confirm into the vortex, there is no defense on your part really if they stay in it. Just going through the flowchart with some alterations is usually enough to clinch someone the win. I really haven't played the game much at all, so I'm still in bottom tier but I've seen a bunch of warden's even so who got the vortex down. Their neutral game just seems to be spamming light attacks though and that is where the game falls apart for them. For the warden and the orochi for the lower tier player, if you have a good enough offense then you won't need a defense is how it feels. Thus people flock to those characters cause they are fun to use and let you win by pushing buttons. For a fighting game casual, being able to just push buttons is the most important thing. Anything that prevents you from pushing buttons, like long combos, fireballs, parries etc, is bad and/or dishonourable. Hypha fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 09:10
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Haroshia posted:Quoting for truth. 90% of LBs are going to follow a shove with a grab so just tech it. Worst case they follow it with a LONG ARM and hit you with a light for gently caress all damage and can't do more because they have literally no stamina. As a Lawbringer main, I can confirm this. I love this character but after playing multiple long sets against two very good Wardens in a row I can't help but feel like the class needs some help. Correct me if I'm wrong or missing anything but LB has the following confirmed damage: Guardbreak > Side Heavy> Shove Guardbreak >throw into wall> Top Heavy (if they're exhausted you also get a top Light) Long Arm> Any light Parry> top light Considering that long arm is pretty drat hard to hit without surprising or setting up for, and that guardbreaks are almost 100% techable and getting the third hit in any of your chains is basically impossible because all of the chains require a heavy attack that is super easy to parry, I can't help but feel pretty helpless offensively as a Lawbringer. Obviously feints can open people up, and the fact that the LB's grab is faster than average can be helpful, but I am frustrated that the majority of his moves feel like a trap to use. And landing a shove is sweet for frame advantage and stamina damage, but doing anything offensive out of it seems really goddamn hard if my opponent can counterbreak and watches for a light attack. Am I missing something integral to the character? Also why does his top heavy do less damage than the Warden's? If it's going to take a billion years it might as well do more than 30 damage :/ I win most of the duels I win on parry>confirmed light hit and the occasional wallbounce heavy. And bullying people into a corner with the shove. I am also only moderately frustrated by the fact that the 4v4 modes' gear stats make it incredibly unfun but playing 1v1 and 2v2 all I ever see are Orochi, Wardens and the Occasional Peacekeeper/Kensei/Nobushi. TwingeCrag fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 09:15
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TwingeCrag posted:As a Lawbringer main, I can confirm this. I love this character but after playing multiple long sets against two very good Wardens in a row I can't help but feel like the class needs some help. You are forgetting that heavy attack parry and light attack parry is different. You can get a top light attack if you parry a heavy attack guaranteed. You can confirm the top unblockable parry attack if you parry a light attack guaranteed. Your best damage coming off of parrying light attacks though is a pretty brutal stipulation. Also for some classes, you can parry into an uncounterable guardbreak but not every character can be punished as such after a parry. I know Nobushi cannot really be punished for eating a parry. It is pretty obvious though that at least Lawbringer and Valk shouldn't have skipped out on the beta test. Hypha fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 09:19
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lmao one of the Sugoki's high tier weapons is literally just a bandaged club with nails sticking out of it. VVV Whether or not you can guardbreak after a parry depends on how close you are. Nobushi can never be parried if you are at her max range. Nobushi and Shugoki also cannot be parried on some of their attacks due to length of their weapons. Their might be others, but those are the ones I know for sure. I agree that the way guardbreak works is very confusing. Even after playing for hours its confusing how sometimes its range is like a foot and others times you'll lunge forward like 5 feet to grab them. The circumstances that cause this aren't explained very clearly. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 09:30
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quote:Also for some classes, you can parry into an uncounterable guardbreak but not every character can be punished as such after a parry. I know Nobushi cannot really be punished for eating a parry. I'm finding this out the hard way and I think it's stupid. Either have it constantly work or not otherwise it's going to confuse the hell out of so many new players.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:34
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Hypha posted:You are forgetting that heavy attack parry and light attack parry is different. You can get a top light attack if you parry a heavy attack guaranteed. You can confirm the top unblockable parry attack if you parry a light attack guaranteed. I know parrying a Nobushi from basically any range still confirms the pole-smack, but do you happen to know which characters I can do an uncounterable guardbreak after parry to? Because that would be great information. And mean I could confirm a side heavy out of a parry, which isn't enormous damage but would still be nice.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:39
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Red Mundus posted:I'm finding this out the hard way and I think it's stupid. Either have it constantly work or not otherwise it's going to confuse the hell out of so many new players. I think it makes sense, especially for Nobushi. A zoning character who cannot poke safely isn't much of a zone character. It allows the slower, longer ranged characters to use their positioning better. If you get the parry, you getting in traditionally is a good enough of a reward.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:39
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Dominion is weird tonight. Three different games with maybe two other people in them just standing in the spawn doing gently caress all. I almost won a round by myself as a pissed off valkryie bleeding folks to death and setting everyone else on fire. There really needs to be some sort of idle detect kick feature, but that'd probably break matchmaking even more.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:43
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TwingeCrag posted:I know parrying a Nobushi from basically any range still confirms the pole-smack, but do you happen to know which characters I can do an uncounterable guardbreak after parry to? Because that would be great information. And mean I could confirm a side heavy out of a parry, which isn't enormous damage but would still be nice. I can't find the source but in a a general sense the slower classes cannot be confirmed into a successful guard break if you parry a heavy attack. I am sure this includes Lawbringer and Kensei. It might include Raider too but I am not sure on that. Nobushi can't be confirmed on either a light or a heavy.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:01
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look I never professed to be any good at photoshop or anything but
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Feb 23, 2017 10:01
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I think Conqueror might be the "worst" hero in the game. I mean, he's actually not bad, but as far as I can tell literally the only effective thing you can do with him is shield bash people into a wall repeatedly. He doesn't really have any tricks to work with other than that. Pretty boring.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:06
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Internet Kraken posted:I think Conqueror might be the "worst" hero in the game. I mean, he's actually not bad, but as far as I can tell literally the only thing you can do with him is shield bash people into a wall repeatedly. He doesn't really have any tricks to work with other than that. Pretty boring. if you hold the strong attack button he starts whirling that flail and after a couple seconds it starts sparkling. You see, during that time you're whirling that bitch you're still able to block the gently caress out of anything headed your way and interrupt it. You want to spin that flail up good, then block a fool, then unload that beast up into their dome. He's all about blocking and counterattacking with big, slow damage.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:08
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TwingeCrag posted:I know parrying a Nobushi from basically any range still confirms the pole-smack, but do you happen to know which characters I can do an uncounterable guardbreak after parry to? Because that would be great information. And mean I could confirm a side heavy out of a parry, which isn't enormous damage but would still be nice. The ones you DO NOT get a GB after parrying: Nobushi. I believe this applies to all the Nobushi's attacks. (Note that Shugoki can GB a Nobushi after a parry. Because he's fat, I guess.) Kensei top heavy. Valkyrie Heavies. Shugoki heavies. Lawbringer heavies. I might be missing a couple, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head. LB's light after parry always hits no matter range, so do that if they're too far for a GB. Internet Kraken posted:I think Conqueror might be the "worst" hero in the game. I mean, he's actually not bad, but as far as I can tell literally the only effective thing you can do with him is shield bash people into a wall repeatedly. He doesn't really have any tricks to work with other than that. Pretty boring. Conqueror doesn't have a huge moveset but what he does have is solid. He's far from the worst in the game, that title belongs to the Raider. Or maybe Lawbringer, depends who you ask.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:13
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So I didn't think Orochi was overpowered until I played against one who knew how to use their top light, which does 50 freaking damage.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:24
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Cat Army 
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Join dominion, everyone on my team no prestige characters, 3 of the 4 of them are prestige 3-4, 90+ gearscore, in game find out they all prioritize revenge gain gear. FANTASTIC  Revenge gain gear needs to loving go.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:29
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Dezztroy posted:Conqueror doesn't have a huge moveset but what he does have is solid. He's far from the worst in the game, that title belongs to the Raider. Or maybe Lawbringer, depends who you ask. By worst I meant most boring to watch and play. He's actually very strong with his limited tools, but having so little to do compared to other classes makes me not even wanna bother with him. But I guess some people like that sort of thing so whatever. I'm just salty because I've been destroyed by like 5 conquerors today 
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Feb 23, 2017 10:31
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When a Conqueror is on, they are really on. Just so, so steady and strong and the fact that they aren't staggered after blocking big hits helps a lot. On the other hand, I can't play a Conqueror well at all since I'm very aggressive.Evil Canadian posted:Revenge gain gear needs to loving go. Being unique statswise okay and all, but yes. This exactly right here.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:33
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Just got the game, 20 gearscore is my highest, multiple dominion games in a row where I'm up against teams with 50-108 gearscore that instant revenge and two hit people with heavy attacks. It doesn't sit well with me that people can spend money for ingame benefits and the matchmaker doesn't care and sends newbies against them, that's a surefire way to lose the game population if newbies just get trashed by people who played longer/paid more.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:35
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Clonkeror. Because after your knife/hatchet clonks against his shield, his flail clonks against your scalp.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:36
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Bonkeror
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Feb 23, 2017 10:42
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Babe Magnet posted:Bonkeror This is just as good if not better. Now someone needs to get all Harlem Globetrotters with him and just gently caress around with super serious MLG noscopers. The Honkeror.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:44
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I take it that Ubi hasn't said poo poo about gear stats one way or the other? Speaking as an idiot who bought one of the middle packs of steel, I would be fine if they decided to take all gear stats out of the game tomorrow, as it would simply improve the game. Having said that, I expect that the pubby community would absolutely lose their poo poo.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:55
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They would, yes. But chances are also good the same demographic that'd flip out about it wouldn't last long either way. Especially once people figure out how to make their revenge poo poo not as effective. Honestly it was dumb in the alphas, dumb in the betas, and it's dumb here. poo poo needs to go. And to say nothing of it being forced min-maxing once you get decent blues or purples. Gear should purely be cosmetic. And god drat even with championship status, getting no loot at the end of a match is bullshit and needs to not happen ever. poo poo loot drops is what wrecked The Division for a while, you'd think Ubisoft would've lea-ahahah I can't do it
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Feb 23, 2017 11:01
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FAUXTON posted:Clonkeror. Ftfy, the overhead is long enough to be easily blocked after a block. Which is weird because it doesn't do more damage than side heavies. Also the charge attack makes him insane when you gang up on someone. The get guard breaked? Half their hp. They attack your partner? Half their hp. A single full charge removes the bonus revenge armor in my experience.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:07
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Wouldn't every 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 be a guaranteed loss without revenge?
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Feb 23, 2017 11:08
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Stat gear is awful and almost every new player I talk to becomes shocked when I explain how it works (revenge tied to stats) in chat. That's not good.UnfortunateSexFart posted:Wouldn't every 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 be a guaranteed loss without revenge? The problem isn't revenge. It's that people can stack gear that gets them revenge in 2 blocks. Red Mundus fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 11:10
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Wouldn't every 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 be a guaranteed loss without revenge? Right now the bar for popping revenge if you're all twinked out is like 3 blocked hits so I don't think 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 even falls within the scope of the argument folks are trying to put forward, let alone serve as any kind of counter-advocacy.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:11
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Wouldn't every 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 be a guaranteed loss without revenge? Revenge is fine and I like the mechanic, its that you can gain way too much of it with the appropriate gear is the problem.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:13
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Gunder posted:I take it that Ubi hasn't said poo poo about gear stats one way or the other? Speaking as an idiot who bought one of the middle packs of steel, I would be fine if they decided to take all gear stats out of the game tomorrow, as it would simply improve the game. Having said that, I expect that the pubby community would absolutely lose their poo poo. Gear stats used to make an even bigger difference pre-beta, believe it or not. It was fun getting literally 3-shotted by Orochi light attacks in the alpha. Hopefully they're open to rebalancing gear again.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:15
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FAUXTON posted:Right now the bar for popping revenge if you're all twinked out is like 3 blocked hits so I don't think 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 even falls within the scope of the argument folks are trying to put forward, let alone serve as any kind of counter-advocacy. Just a question, no advocacy. I don't see these super high gear score types since I have split my playing time between multiple characters. Although I noticed on my own that high revenge gear is best.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:03
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Just a question, no advocacy. I don't see these super high gear score types since I have split my playing time between multiple characters. Although I noticed on my own that high revenge gear is best. I split my time between all the characters too, yet when I play dominion I ususally am up against 2 prestige 3+ people with 80+ gearscore. I don't know if I have to eat poo poo on that because maybe there is one mmr instead of one just for duels and me winning duels means I have to play against gear gods in dominion or something. Even as I write this right now, matched up between 2 people who have 108 gear score orange colour, other two opponents are 40~, my team is 5, 6, 5, and a 90.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:16
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Evil Canadian posted:Revenge gain gear needs to loving go. I dunno man, I just won my first 1v4 last night. I humped the air so hard, and so repeatedly after that. I had jumped into a losing game and it was the very first thing I did and got to feat level 3 off that encounter by itself.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:36
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Revenge build is awesome for 1vX situations, but its attack/defense boosts need to be lowered a bit tbh. Apparently an Orochi can 4 light attack someone to death when with maxed gear?
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Feb 23, 2017 12:48
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Pretty easy to 1v2 when my locked opponent decides to attack from the same side as his teammate is standing.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:55
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When you learn to parry 2+ people at the same time because they're all hitting you from the same dumb direction, that's when the real fun begins.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:58
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Revenge as a mechanic is fine remove or severely nerf revenge gear... problem solved. Revenge is a mechanic to give you a CHANCE for survival if you can block all the opponents successfully when you're outnumbered... it shouldn't be an immortality button that guarantees revenge within 3 seconds of an engagement and then being able to constantly re-apply it its supa dum
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Feb 23, 2017 13:12
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BTW Valkyries, Lawbringers, and Wardens with their repetitive stun spam are the way to take down a Revenge spammer. So, yknow, just load up on revenge spamming wardens and you'll be fine
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Feb 23, 2017 13:19
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Just won against a decent warden as Raider, entirely because someone here mentioned the bonus combo damage for the area attack. Also that move has insane reach and tracking.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:34
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I can't wait for the Valk buff. Right now, her chains are so bad, cause you get punished for parrying an enemy. I was nonstop parrying a Shugoki and the amount of times I'd immediately stab air afterwards cause he gets pushed back out of range. When you parry as Orochi, if you light attack, he takes a quick step forward without you needing to do anything to close the distance. Valk doesn't do that. So pretty much, heavy attacks won't connect cause you're too far, so you have to jump attack and it's just so lame cause you lose so much damage output despite the fact you pulled off a parry. You get one or two light attacks in before they're able to defend again.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:45
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Loopoo posted:I can't wait for the Valk buff. Right now, her chains are so bad, cause you get punished for parrying an enemy. I was nonstop parrying a Shugoki and the amount of times I'd immediately stab air afterwards cause he gets pushed back out of range. When you parry as Orochi, if you light attack, he takes a quick step forward without you needing to do anything to close the distance. Valk doesn't do that. So pretty much, heavy attacks won't connect cause you're too far, so you have to jump attack and it's just so lame cause you lose so much damage output despite the fact you pulled off a parry. You get one or two light attacks in before they're able to defend again. poo poo, if you deflect with an Orochi instead, you get an instant mixup that the enemy has to predict whether they immediately spam something or get stabbed in the gut.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:02
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