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Poil posted:-100% happiness BEING GROUND INTO lovely COFFEE FOR BEING UNGRATEFUL JERKS Nah, man. Use a slow, coarse grind so they get really chunky and throw them in a dyson sphere to heat up with water and you got yourself the best alien coffee you could ask for
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Feb 23, 2017 01:31
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King Doom posted:What happens if some non hiveminds conquer a hivemind world though? What if you come across a pre-ftl hive mind? are a bunch of the usual options just not there? I never even thought about discovering primitive hive minds before now. How great would it be to come across one and then prune it into a subservient mind? Utilizing a hive mind species to be your dedicated farmers or fighting force just feels right to me.
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Feb 23, 2017 01:34
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It's probably going to be a universal gameplay thing for all hive minds, but I wish there was some combo of traits you could pick to be a chill cool hive mind with social skills that's fine having non-hive minded pops living with them. Or have an immigration treaty with a hive mind and get some of their pops which gives you a huge diplomatic bonus or penalty depending on how happy the hive mind pops are in your empire but maybe also being extra triggering to xenophobes. Would be rad to have a society that simply had a hive mind as one of it's member species, just counts as one big citizen and everyone's chill with the hive mind. Hive mind would have "vision" on any planet its pops are on, and control over their behavior, like going on strike or even becoming enemy militia if relations get bad. But a big happy federation with migration treaties and a member just happening to be a hive mind would be cool and scify. But also probably a nightmare to implement in a good way. Man, there's so much I want to know. I wish I could find out more, more about hive minds. If only there was a way, a time to know more.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:04
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Species Submission The Larsoni grew up on the planet of Galiria, where they drained their food from the large trees there, and evolved their intelligence in the construction of homes and traps to ward off the predators. They're a small, short lived, flying and sexually strongly dimorph race, with smaller males outnumbering the taller females. As their society grew more complex, males took great pride in their skills in building and engineering to be allowed to serve under prestigious females, while females try to increase prestige by spearheading projects of grand scope, usefulness and beauty. The whole society is in a constant contest to dazzle and impress others, because that is what your social standing depends on. Once made these for a TG game where we Stellarised it up (before Stellaris was a thing) and had a load of fun with it. quote:"The Galactic Contest of Splendor"
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Feb 23, 2017 02:04
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I'm sort of wondering if the restriction on hive mind pops living with non-hive mind pops is more of a technical thing. Like they're able to turn off/on hive mind features on a per-planet basis in the code, but not a per-pop basis or some other quirky technical limitation. Like it just seems weird that apparently hive mind pops of one species can coexist on the same planet as hive mind pops of another, or that my humans have to exterminate the hive mind pops on a planet if they want to move a pop or two onto it.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:17
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Yeah I'm guessing it's mostly that. It's the first time Stellaris has implemented alternative rules for pops like this. Before everyone's been playing with the same rules, same ethos and factions and happiness system. Hive is our first taste of some asymmetrical mechanics.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:19
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It's because they are trying to make things feel different. If you make everything work with everything then why even have alternative options?
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Feb 23, 2017 02:28
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Yeah, you choose hivemind because you don't want to deal with the faction mechanics. If you could have non-hivemind pops living in your empire, they would form factions. Then you're not playing a hivemind anymore.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:32
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All sorts of mechanics break down with the way they're doing hive species. If you want to take territory from them you need to genocide them... but is it really genocide if there are only drones, and no individuals on the planets full of beings you're massacring? Regardless, I'd like to have an option to try to coexist with the drones in some capacity, District 9 style, rather than being forced to send them into death camps (even if they're dying of their own accord, being split off from the rest of the hive). If I want to be more humane, can I try to liberate them? Or break off a few planets as a vassal? I guess they wouldn't end up sharing your ethics if they have to still be a hive. Maybe they won't be able to engage in conventional diplomacy at all, but it would be nice if you could play nice with them and have hive mind buddies. There are a lot of potential problems, and a bunch of ways they could mess it up, but I'm really glad they're trying something so different and out-there!
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Feb 23, 2017 02:43
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Eiba posted:Regardless, I'd like to have an option to try to coexist with the drones in some capacity, District 9 style, rather than being forced to send them into death camps (even if they're dying of their own accord, being split off from the rest of the hive). I'm picturing it as a situation where the drones just can't survive if separated from the hive mind. Like a body being separated from its head.
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Feb 23, 2017 03:15
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It could be an interesting event chain, having members of your hive mind abducted for study and/or "liberation".
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Feb 23, 2017 03:26
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3 DONG HORSE posted:It's because they are trying to make things feel different. If you make everything work with everything then why even have alternative options? Hiveminds can be different without introducing things that aren't fun and, hey, they might be! Personally speaking, though, if a hive mind has a small empire with a couple planets, and I completely conquer them, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to have that hive mind as part of my empire, even if it joins factions as a unit at a time. That, to me, would be super interesting and still feel different. So maybe the hive mind ends up being a really good planet sized citizen... only to turn into a thorn in your side once it has a few more planets under his control and makes a bid to take over, at which point he becomes an immortal ruler of your civ and turns everyone else into slaves, having won the long game! And hey, maybe that sort of cool stuff is what we'll get. We'll find out soon!
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Feb 23, 2017 04:56
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3 DONG HORSE posted:It's because they are trying to make things feel different. If you make everything work with everything then why even have alternative options? It's this.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:31
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Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude or anything, but how easy would it be to mod Hiveminds to not die in non hivemind civilisations? I'm a total, utter carebear in games like this and the idea that the game mechanics potentially demand there be genocide isn't something I'm delighted by. I'm playing the super happy fun democratic utopia of love and tolerance, the federation is attacked and I get given a planet as part of the wargoals and it turns out that it was filled with hivemind pops What am I supposed to do here if I don't go check the planet out first and see who lives there? Give the order to fire up the continent sized flying woodchipper and mulch them all? just sit there and watch them starve to death or something?
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Feb 23, 2017 09:42
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King Doom posted:Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude or anything, but how easy would it be to mod Hiveminds to not die in non hivemind civilisations? I'm a total, utter carebear in games like this and the idea that the game mechanics potentially demand there be genocide isn't something I'm delighted by. I'm playing the super happy fun democratic utopia of love and tolerance, the federation is attacked and I get given a planet as part of the wargoals and it turns out that it was filled with hivemind pops What am I supposed to do here if I don't go check the planet out first and see who lives there? Give the order to fire up the continent sized flying woodchipper and mulch them all? just sit there and watch them starve to death or something? TRUMP!!!
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Feb 23, 2017 09:52
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King Doom posted:Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude or anything, but how easy would it be to mod Hiveminds to not die in non hivemind civilisations? I'm a total, utter carebear in games like this and the idea that the game mechanics potentially demand there be genocide isn't something I'm delighted by. I'm playing the super happy fun democratic utopia of love and tolerance, the federation is attacked and I get given a planet as part of the wargoals and it turns out that it was filled with hivemind pops What am I supposed to do here if I don't go check the planet out first and see who lives there? Give the order to fire up the continent sized flying woodchipper and mulch them all? just sit there and watch them starve to death or something? You can set you purge option to displacement.
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Feb 23, 2017 09:53
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It makes sense to me that a hivemind pop would not survive outside the hive mind, it's like removing an organ from the host. Maybe we can use gene therapy to remove the hivemind trait, becoming the ultimate democratic crusader. Only weird edge case would be when two hiveminds trade pops, but maybe that was also taken care of somehow, who knows... All our questions will be answered an hour or so anyway.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:07
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Make hive mind pops act like the shrimps in District 9 when removed from their hive. If you're an egalitarian xenophile you just gotta live with your bum space hobos that produce nothing. And a question. Does the game recognise different hive mind pops? If I am a hive mind and I conquer pops from another hive mind, do they just integrate or does it only work with my own species?
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Feb 23, 2017 10:51
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If you're playing a carebear type race that doesn't want to result in the death of millions of drones just because you wanted a planet, I'm guessing if you liberate planets it would still create a new hive mind empire you could vassalise. If not then you have to imagine a star trek episode where the Federation want to expand but the planet already had all these drone things on it, what would they do? Would they commit genocide to have nice borders? No, so neither should you. That said, Janeway did blow up the Borg nexus thing which probably killed like a million drones and she didn't give a gently caress. Thinking on it I do wonder how AI empires particularly will view hive minds. Right now you get a lot of bonuses based on ethics, but if they don't have ethics then they could be neutral to everyone, but then you risk having no personality. I'm looking forward to seeing how it will all work (in today's dev diary?).
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Feb 23, 2017 11:00
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To be fair, Janeway violated the Prime Directive at least twenty times throughout the course of the show, including the same episode where she accused the crew of the Equinox of violating it. Naturally, she gets promoted to vice admiral afterwards. Sisko also used chemical weapons to poison an entire planet for a personal vendetta. I will say that any in-game genemodding of hivers to remove their hivemind status (if possible at all) if you're a pacifist and welcoming empire might actually be against your ethics. Unless you're the sinister kind of utopia. I'm really looking forward to seeing all of the civics and combinations in today's dev diary, however. The most exciting part will probably be interactions with other empires once the diplomacy expansion is out much later.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:14
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Captain Janeway never gave a single gently caress and it's the best part of her character.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:26
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In regards to Hivemind drones not surviving in other empires and vice-versa, I think it makes sense when you consider how infrastructure and society would be completely different in a hivemind. Like, in a proper hivemind there's going to be no education, no centralised healthcare, no leisure activities, etc. Even food and water access would probably just be nutrient paste rations passively distributed to hungry drones. I imagine a hivemind world is just a mass of chittering drones going about their duties. So when a drone is taken out of that and plopped in a real planet it won't have access to this intense infrastructure that it relies on. Like, if a stereotypical first world city slicker was picked up and plopped in the middle of a forest they'd likely end up dead of starvation and exposure due to a lack of knowledge of how to hunt or make shelter, despite the ample resources available. Likewise, if an alien is plopped into a hivemind he is going to have trouble accessing food, will likely have no access to healthcare and may not be capable of communicating its needs to the mindless drones surrounding him. That being said, co-existence could still be possible, just hard. Having a subservient hivemind and its drones as a slave caste seems reasonable, for example.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:36
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She murdered Tuvix.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:37
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The hive mind option sounds like the Scrambler species from Blindsight where the individual beings are more like cells in a giant organism and they simply can't function or survive outside of their greater whole.
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 11:39
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That's kind of a spoiler of the book. :P
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Feb 23, 2017 11:42
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Anticheese posted:That's kind of a spoiler of the book. :P more like a selling point, imo
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Feb 23, 2017 11:50
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Splicer posted:She murdered Tuvix. I think next time I play Stellaris I'm going to name a planet RIP Tuvix.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:52
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Oh it absolutely is. If you guys have the time, you can read Blindsight here.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:53
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Heartcatch posted:To be fair, Janeway violated the Prime Directive at least twenty times throughout the course of the show, including the same episode where she accused the crew of the Equinox of violating it. I think it's funny how when you put Janeway and Adama in very similar situations (Equinox and Pegasus), it's Adama that comes out as looking like the better Starfleet captain. I wonder if that was on purpose, I've heard Ronald D Moore was in constant conflict with the other Voyager writers after he moved over from DS9. Is BSG just him saying "I'm going to make my own Voyager, with And yeah, RIP Tuvix, never forget.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:55
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Reveilled posted:I think it's funny how when you put Janeway and Adama in very similar situations (Equinox and Pegasus), it's Adama that comes out as looking like the better Starfleet captain. I wonder if that was on purpose, I've heard Ronald D Moore was in constant conflict with the other Voyager writers after he moved over from DS9. Is BSG just him saying "I'm going to make my own Voyager, with Basically, yes. There's an interview where he basically says as much.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:57
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RPS wrote up an article praising how good Stellaris is at Star Trek.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:58
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Bholder posted:It makes sense to me that a hivemind pop would not survive outside the hive mind, it's like removing an organ from the host. Further Reading posted:In regards to Hivemind drones not surviving in other empires and vice-versa, I think it makes sense when you consider how infrastructure and society would be completely different in a hivemind. Like, in a proper hivemind there's going to be no education, no centralised healthcare, no leisure activities, etc. Even food and water access would probably just be nutrient paste rations passively distributed to hungry drones. I imagine a hivemind world is just a mass of chittering drones going about their duties. This would make sense if you were talking about migrating hivemind pops around different planets, but not with them just staying where they are, like when you conquer one of their planets (until the new empire moves in and starts messing around with their business). There's no 'logical' reason (as far as goofy sci fi concepts go) that a hive mind couldn't be friendly pacifist xenophiles and be like "sure some of our drones/borg/cells will live on your planet and help you out" but if you allow them to coexist with non hiveminds I agree that it's difficult to think of ways in which a hive mind would play differently other than removing factions/happiness and removing mechanics and content is not interesting. The problem with differentiating hive minds is that you can already get total social control (over how your pops think and what they do) with repressive government policy. Maybe hiveminds could retain control over their pops even when in other empires? I just want the option for hive mind pops in my non hive mind empire specifically so it can go horribly wrong in some way (or to play a "friendly" hive mind which conquers by signing migration treaties with everyone...) ModernMajorGeneral fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 12:00
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Heartcatch posted:To be fair, Janeway violated the Prime Directive at least twenty times throughout the course of the show, including the same episode where she accused the crew of the Equinox of violating it. Naturally, she gets promoted to vice admiral afterwards. Sisko also used chemical weapons to poison an entire planet for a personal vendetta. Hey c'mon, Sisko made the planet uninhabitable for humans only and it was to stop the Maquis who had been doing the same thing to Cardassian colonies. Sisko's got nothing on Janeway!
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Feb 23, 2017 12:02
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Sisko had a Romulan ambassador assassinated so the Romulans would enter a massively destructive war on the side of the Federation.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:09
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Firebert posted:Hey c'mon, Sisko made the planet uninhabitable for humans only and it was to stop the Maquis who had been doing the same thing to Cardassian colonies. Sisko's got nothing on Janeway! Sisko also punched Q! A complete monster. Archer and Phlox let an entire species die for the sake of natural evolution if you count ENT, and Starfleet Intelligence used the morphogenic virus in an attempt to genocide the Founders. If you look at Starfleet flag officers, when you have Cartwright, Pressman, Leyton, the Starfleet Academy Commandant, Janeway, and Dougherty, Starfleet is kind of barmy and not that close to their professed ideals. Toddman and Nechayev are fine though. Not a great example to use for a supremely moral empire when one gets down to brass tacks. However, this kind of deviancy really mixes it up and brings simmering societal conflict into the open. It definitely works for Stellaris empires that still want to remain positive and welcoming, but have practical justifications for committing heinous acts with the excuse of just war laying about on the side.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:26
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:
That gives me an idea for a cool twist to factions: interaction with factions within enemy empires. This could create a downside to migration treaties just in case you're sending people to jump start a separatist movement, but you could also reach out to other faction leaders and offer support. This can range from direct control of the faction to smuggling resources to them to voicing support publicly. In addition to destabilising an enemy factions leaders could send you intel or temporary sensor access. If controlling or smuggling then you risk a huge diplomacy hit if discovered along with the faction being flagged as treasonous. On the other hand, you might secretly work with the other empire to keep the faction under control. Paranoid empires could even accuse factions of having enemy state sponsorship which can cause diplomatic incidents if the accusation is unfounded.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:29
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Sisko had a Romulan ambassador assassinated so the Romulans would enter a massively destructive war on the side of the Federation. Sisko was constantly choosing between the lesser of two evils. Janeway was a monster relishing her power over those trapped under her command. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 12:34
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Milky Moor posted:The hive mind option sounds like the Scrambler species from Blindsight where the individual beings are more like cells in a giant organism and they simply can't function or survive outside of their greater whole. I think the Scramblers were a little too alien to be compared to anything playable in this game, especially hive-minds (because of the whole lacking consciousness thing).
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Feb 23, 2017 12:37
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:This would make sense if you were talking about migrating hivemind pops around different planets, but not with them just staying where they are, like when you conquer one of their planets (until the new empire moves in and starts messing around with their business). Pretty sure you can still play as a xenophile hivemind, I don't think there was a mention about limiting your diplomatic options (other than migration I would assume) so you can still join federations and help out this way. Maybe when the big federation re-make comes hive-mind members will be handled somehow differently. An option to peacefully integrate people into the collective would be interesting though.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:38
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Sisko had a Romulan ambassador assassinated so the Romulans would enter a massively destructive war on the side of the Federation. No, Sisko got Garak involved and Garak argued that he must have known this would be the end result. I'd say that's a bit different than any of the dumb inconsistent poo poo they did with Janeway.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:14
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