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Bholder posted:Pretty sure you can still play as a xenophile hivemind, I don't think there was a mention about limiting your diplomatic options (other than migration I would assume) so you can still join federations and help out this way. Maybe when the big federation re-make comes hive-mind members will be handled somehow differently. I guess the big thing is that it seems weird to conflate a hive mind and an empire. We have this great new multispecies starting empire thing, but then we cant do twonsymbiotic hiveminds in one empire!
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Feb 23, 2017 13:25
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Bholder posted:Pretty sure you can still play as a xenophile hivemind, I don't think there was a mention about limiting your diplomatic options (other than migration I would assume) so you can still join federations and help out this way. Maybe when the big federation re-make comes hive-mind members will be handled somehow differently. That's what I meant though - not being able to coexist with other species makes sense for an evil murdermind but if you are a xenophile hivemind I don't know what the thematic reason for preventing other pops living in your empire could be. I don't have a problem with this being the case just for gameplay simplicity and balancing reasons but I don't think it would be bad to keep this kind of thing in the back room for the inevitable hivemind dlc.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:41
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We haven't seen the rest of the Hivemind options to see what they do.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:56
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It went up like five minutes ago, get to reading! https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-62-government-civics-and-hive-minds.1001169/
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Feb 23, 2017 13:56
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Actual repercussions from having different leaders ruling your empire helloooooo yes this will work nicely with roleplaying my rulers. e: I have yet to read a thing about this expansion that I don't want, hot drat!
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Feb 23, 2017 14:04
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So no real surprises it looks like. Wiz, will you guys be releasing new portraits with the update? I would especially love some colony looking swarm critters, both to go with the new hive mind government and also for those of us who want to play a more traditional empire where we can imagine our pops as super colonies.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:22
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Bholder posted:It makes sense to me that a hivemind pop would not survive outside the hive mind, it's like removing an organ from the host. There is an old weird Russian game called Vangers and the premise was exactly that, part of the hive got separated due to portal collapse. Short story - they managed to adapt sort of but their behaviour is still full of weird, archaic instincts and remnants of life-cycles from back when it was part of the whole.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:23
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No Pants posted:I think the Scramblers were a little too alien to be compared to anything playable in this game, especially hive-minds (because of the whole lacking consciousness thing). Blindsight would also say that what's under the spoiler bar doesn't preclude something being able to do everything a normal person might be able to do, particularly when viewed from the outside.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:26
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GlyphGryph posted:So no real surprises it looks like. I do hope for some new portraits too, that might be a bit much to ask though! Every single diary and thing released does make me want this update. It's a shame Wiz wasn't in charge of the game from the start honestly, what he's done with it has been absolutely amazing.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:26
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I think an interesting take on Hive minds would be to treat each planet as a separate entity within the greater whole. If you start as a hive mind you get a max size homeworld, but every colonized system is a sector of its own with no direct control.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:27
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Demiurge4 posted:I think an interesting take on Hive minds would be to treat each planet as a separate entity within the greater whole. If you start as a hive mind you get a max size homeworld, but every colonized system is a sector of its own with no direct control. Planets as pops would be a great alternative and I hope they add it as a new civic in a later dlc or something. Although I do wonder what happens if you liberate hive mind planets right now
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Feb 23, 2017 14:30
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The Citizen Service icon is the Starship Troopers Federation logo. 
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Feb 23, 2017 14:38
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:That's what I meant though - not being able to coexist with other species makes sense for an evil murdermind but if you are a xenophile hivemind I don't know what the thematic reason for preventing other pops living in your empire could be. The idea might be that even for a Xenophile Hivemind, that absolutely loves interacting, trading, communicating and sharing the galaxy with other sophonts, the idea of having them 'inside of them' is simply horrifying to them, the Hive equivalent of having a xenomorph inside of you. "We think you humans are great, and we love your music and your culture and everything about you, but our Mineral and Food drones just aren't equipped to handle large amounts of non-Hive lifeforms. They just see you as resources to be gathered, and giving all of them the intelligence to distinguish these things is simply not a thing we can do on a large scale. So, we of course welcome a few guests and tourists here and there in specifically prepared areas with our ambassador-drones, but co-habitation is just not a thing we can do.' I do hope that a nice and xenophile Hive can try to make sure that people on a planet they conquer can migrate to other planets, rather than just perish as the world gets adapted to the Hive's needs.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:38
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Demiurge4 posted:I think an interesting take on Hive minds would be to treat each planet as a separate entity within the greater whole. If you start as a hive mind you get a max size homeworld, but every colonized system is a sector of its own with no direct control. An interesting idea but gameplay wise that'd be boring as gently caress! In fact you'd presume that hives don't have a limit on worlds controlled and can't make sectors at all. Which I'd quite enjoy.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:42
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Taear posted:An interesting idea but gameplay wise that'd be boring as gently caress! In fact you'd presume that hives don't have a limit on worlds controlled and can't make sectors at all. Which I'd quite enjoy. Under current mechanics sure, but I hope they don't give you an increased core planets limit if you're a hivemind, planet management is the worst part of the game. Instead they should add some interesting event tables for hive minds. When you create a sector you fracture the whole a little bit to give a part of the hive basic autonomy and there should be an event chain that deals with the consequences of that, possibly as part of an ascension perk tree.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:46
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Shogeton posted:The idea might be that even for a Xenophile Hivemind, that absolutely loves interacting, trading, communicating and sharing the galaxy with other sophonts, the idea of having them 'inside of them' is simply horrifying to them, the Hive equivalent of having a xenomorph inside of you. "We think you humans are great, and we love your music and your culture and everything about you, but our Mineral and Food drones just aren't equipped to handle large amounts of non-Hive lifeforms. They just see you as resources to be gathered, and giving all of them the intelligence to distinguish these things is simply not a thing we can do on a large scale. So, we of course welcome a few guests and tourists here and there in specifically prepared areas with our ambassador-drones, but co-habitation is just not a thing we can do.' After reading the dev blog, the answer is actually totally different: Over time, a hivemind can learn to genetically engineer non-hivemind pops to join them. So xenophile hives don't need to avoid all co-habitation, they can just modify alien population to join them! (And the other way is possible to: You can eventually unlock techs to remove hivemind pops from their overmind. They don't have to die if you end up "liberating" their worlds.)
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Feb 23, 2017 14:51
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Taear posted:I do hope for some new portraits too, that might be a bit much to ask though! I'm on a portrait-making kick recently, and I'm looking for ideas for future ones. I'm toying with making a Silicoid group where they're all crystalline (and optionally use the crystal dudes as ships, if I can sort that out!), but I'm open to suggestions re: Hive Minders!
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Feb 23, 2017 14:52
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I also love that there about a dozen different civic pics just for hiveminds. You can build your very own hive the way you like it!
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Feb 23, 2017 14:54
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GenericOverusedName posted:It went up like five minutes ago, get to reading! Slightly less than what I was hoping for, but also more at the same time. I'm excited for more elaboration. Idealistic Foundation has my undivided interest.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:02
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Anyone not already planning their brain slug run where they assimilate all other life forms into the hive is a loser and a coward.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:13
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Some more detail on how sectors work for hive minds would be good. I assume they represent 'nodes' and that you're obliged to have a semi-autonomous leader run them.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:15
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Tangentially related - Crusader Kings 2: Monks and Mystics releases on 7th of March, announcement was 2nd of December. Being that Utopia was announced 2nd of February, May release date?
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Feb 23, 2017 15:26
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Dog Kisser posted:I'm on a portrait-making kick recently, and I'm looking for ideas for future ones. I'm toying with making a Silicoid group where they're all crystalline (and optionally use the crystal dudes as ships, if I can sort that out!), but I'm open to suggestions re: Hive Minders! Make a portrait where you have a few small beefy dudes holding up a few tall gangly dudes and then a cloud of other fly like critters flying around above them that vibrate when they talk. Make a portrait that is just several dudes clearly speaking as one. Make a portrait that has a couple small mobile plantoid looking aliens but they have no mouths, and they are in what looks like a garden but the flowers behind them are what talks. Make a literal pile of bugs.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:28
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Libluini posted:After reading the dev blog, the answer is actually totally different: Over time, a hivemind can learn to genetically engineer non-hivemind pops to join them. So xenophile hives don't need to avoid all co-habitation, they can just modify alien population to join them! Theres no xenophilia there though. Thats like claiming you love dogs and thats why you took one and chopped off its head and grafted the body to your hip to keep it alive. If a human hive organism can have pet dogs, regular hives should at least be able to have pet species in their empires. Also based on what we have seen I dont understand how the idea of converting pops to not be hive minded anymore would even possibly make sense. They arent being mind controlled, they are appendages. That would be like someone chopping off your hand to "free it" and modifying it to live independentantly. What would that even mean, haha. Closest I can came is putting the brain of one of your dudes into the drones and wearing it as a flesh suit. I do hope hive minders can actually conquer and integrate other hive mind pops though. Let me kill my enemies and gain their power by grafting their body parts to my own!
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Feb 23, 2017 15:34
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I was about to joke about starting an argument about the ethics of changing the hive mind trait of a pop...
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Feb 23, 2017 15:40
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GlyphGryph posted:Theres no xenophilia there though. Thats like claiming you love dogs and thats why you took one and chopped off its head and grafted the body to your hip to keep it alive. That's antropomorphizing aliens, though. That's how we would think about this issue. An alien hivemind could very well decide being part of a hivemind is so awesome including aliens in it just makes sense. As to your other observation, there are like a dozen options for different hiveminds and the basic background lore is that individuals are "psionically" connected. There's lots of leeway for cutting out individuals out of a hive without it stopping to make sense. For one thing (the very first thing that came to mind, actually), the individuals making up a hivemind must have at least some kind of higher brain functions. After all, why it is theoretically possible to just staple cockroaches together until you get something complex enough for human-like thoughts, that's not what is happening here. That way (starting with sub-sapient intelligence) would result in something resembling a normal society, just with individuals who are all their own, walking hivemind. Instead, to get a meta-hivemind on the level of a space empire, you logically need something at least approaching human-level intelligence to begin with. In a game with FTL and other magic technology, I see no problem in biological research suddenly finding ways to cut a hivemind-drone out of the overmind and giving it free will.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:46
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GlyphGryph posted:Make a portrait where you have a few small beefy dudes holding up a few tall gangly dudes and then a cloud of other fly like critters flying around above them that vibrate when they talk. GlyphGryph posted:Make a portrait that is just several dudes clearly speaking as one. GlyphGryph posted:Make a portrait that has a couple small mobile plantoid looking aliens but they have no mouths, and they are in what looks like a garden but the flowers behind them are what talks. GlyphGryph posted:Make a literal pile of bugs.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:46
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There's a few different civic options, I'm presuming some combination allows for a distributed intelligence made up of sapient individuals.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:48
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Sisko had a Romulan ambassador assassinated so the Romulans would enter a massively destructive war on the side of the Federation. Best ST episode ever.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:52
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oh neat. last time i played i had to do that manually so i'd get this eloi/morlock thing happening on my dystopian earth
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Feb 23, 2017 15:56
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Any gross pile of bugs portrait I see is going to get insta-purged. 
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Feb 23, 2017 15:57
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What if it's a pile of really cute bugs?
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Feb 23, 2017 15:57
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  nice ThaumPenguin fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 16:10
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Demiurge4 posted:Under current mechanics sure, but I hope they don't give you an increased core planets limit if you're a hivemind, planet management is the worst part of the game. I like planet management. I like building my empire. It feels like Hives should give you more control over stuff like that, not less. It's a shame the syncretic evolution doesn't let you do a Centauri from Babylon 5 and have another proper race living on your planet with you. Just like the Centauri but not the bit with the genocide.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:10
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Dog Kisser posted:I'm on a portrait-making kick recently, and I'm looking for ideas for future ones. I'm toying with making a Silicoid group where they're all crystalline (and optionally use the crystal dudes as ships, if I can sort that out!), but I'm open to suggestions re: Hive Minders! Make big glowing brains. Or coral. Or big glowing brain corals.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:20
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Taear posted:I like planet management. I like building my empire. It feels like Hives should give you more control over stuff like that, not less.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:23
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drat some of this poo poo really hits that "what-if" feel that I love from Sci-fi.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:24
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Do a hive mind protrait that is just a dark vortex with flashes of lightning in it and a bunch of eyes staring of the dark.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:25
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Unfortunately, you'll still have to declare war and have truces as a purifier, but I can understand why.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:31
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Taear posted:I like planet management. I like building my empire. It feels like Hives should give you more control over stuff like that, not less. I like planet management but I wish sectors would be more intelligent. If I could give universal permission to upgrade all space ports to 3 and to build solar panels and orbital hydroponics I would be happy. Maybe up it to 5 for sector capitals so I can tell them to build point defences and a shipyard to reduce maintenance costs outside of deployments. The short version of most of my posts is I want to be a Space King and not a Space Civil Servant once things have reached a point they are big enough to look after themselves. BigPaddy fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 16:32
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