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Looke posted:this weather really is quite something 's just a bit dreich here.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:03
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forkboy84 posted:Two things in The Guardian I've liked in one day. Impressive going. 
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Feb 23, 2017 14:04
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ah, the quarterly prophet
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Feb 23, 2017 14:06
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jBrereton posted:Because the town is loving wank and has been run by Labour for decades. Do people really think UKIP is going to fix their town? No. Do people think the Tories can be trusted with Stoke? Also probably no. So in a choice between some guy from a town over who says a choice you made is poo poo and anyone else it's like "can I really be arsed to in theory support this guy?". If you nuked Burslem, Fenton and Kidsgrove things might improve. Although not sure anything in Hanley other than the Pottery centre is worth saving either. It all went downhill when "Another world' were bought out by forbidden planet.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:09
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Guavanaut posted:Yeah, but that's also the success of anything-for-a-buck late capitalism, not cultural Marxism, so the solutions presented by the right are wrong. I don't think the people of Stoke particularly care about Hegelian dialectics, they just want things to not be poo poo, which Labour has not done a very good job of.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:15
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Jose posted:This is a good book review on a book about the state of economics teaching. turns out to get an economics degree you just do multiple choice exams and never do any critical thinking yeah p much, the "economics isn't a science" crew won decades ago. It's why I split into financial maths, I'd have died of boredom doing nothing but pissing about with GCSE level stats. Now I hate both with equal passion.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:why is labour apparently running lurch as its candidate? He looks a bit like the first minister Tucker forced to resign in the first series of The Thick of It.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:26
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jBrereton posted:OK? Labour haven't been able to do anything about it since 2010. And New Labour at least instituted the minimum wage and other things that helped. They're more likely (they have said to people I know) that they don't do politics and the other usual stuff.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:30
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"I don't do politics, why do people keep exploiting me, lets vote to extend the work week" our fellow proles are often frustrating
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Feb 23, 2017 14:34
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Pissflaps posted:Fascinating and sobering analysis, related to our conversation this morning. To get back to this, the analysis here is interesting but it's also missing a lot. I would have preferred a longer term analysis - in particular you can suggest that the initial fall under Corbyn really represents working class disappointment. That the initial numbers were very high, and then fell to normal post-Blair levels. Anecdotally I can certainly see reasons why Corbyn might have failed to connect with the working class. The issues I can recall Corbyn being very involved in - trident, kneeling before the Queen... Were really not terribly working class concerns. Even today I think the main argument Labour is making to the working class is on protecting the NHS, and the right have developed their anti immigration angle on that.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:35
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I'm from Stoke and a hell of a lot of people are convinced that Labour is an anti-English racist party that loves foreigners over them and that immigration causes literally all of their problems. Of course there's also a lot of people who don't. I don't know whether the latter outnumbers the former though unfortunately. I met the Lib Dem candidate in Sainsburys just and I was fairly suprised to hear that, at least according to them, they're getting some respect for being principled Remainers, even from Leave voters. They didn't seem too positive with their chances, though...
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Feb 23, 2017 14:36
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Pissflaps posted:Fascinating and sobering analysis, related to our conversation this morning. This is literally because many working class people are deeply racist (i know you can't call people racist anymore, pc gone mad) and believe that Corbyn is an anti-English terrorist sympathiser. That's literally all the depth there is to it.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:46
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Spangly A posted:"I don't do politics, why do people keep exploiting me, lets vote to extend the work week" My mum only votes Lib Dem, not because she is actually a liberal, but because she doesn't trust Labour or the Tories. She also considered voting Ukip at some point, for the same reason.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:47
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Pantsuit posted:This is literally because many working class people are deeply racist (i know you can't call people racist anymore, pc gone mad) and believe that Corbyn is an anti-English terrorist sympathiser. That's literally all the depth there is to it. it's almost like the generation educated after thatcher brutalised education are among the worst people since the baby boomers on the planet. I mean eventually we're all filth but it's nice to see such variety in society failing upwards. and i must meme posted:My mum only votes Lib Dem, not because she is actually a liberal, but because she doesn't trust Labour or the Tories. She also considered voting Ukip at some point, for the same reason. my mum asked me about ukip after reading their education policy and liking it. She was horrified at them being the Nigel Farage party. UKIP know their audience and have excellent PR for their relative clout. I know the media is as always an enormous part of it, but when you sit down and read UKIP's literature, they are really good at speaking to the university of life crowd.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:47
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and i must meme posted:My mum only votes Lib Dem, not because she is actually a liberal, but because she doesn't trust Labour or the Tories. She also considered voting Ukip at some point, for the same reason. "I don't trust Labour but I do trust the party who went into coalition & proceeded to abandon their voters". Your mum seems stupid, with all due respect.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:48
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forkboy84 posted:"I don't trust Labour but I do trust the party who went into coalition & proceeded to abandon their voters". She's a climate change denier who believes in homeopathy so you aren't exactly wrong.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:53
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Hi goons. I'm writing my will. Not because I'm about to die (as far as I know, anyway), but because it's a good idea. One of the things you have to do is specify what happens if your beneficiaries die before you do. At some point the connections get so distant and meaningless that I'd just rather give whatever money I'm leaving behind to a charity. I have a charity in mind, but I thought I'd do a bit of crowdsourcing before I make my final decision. So if anyone knows some charities that are particularly effective, or which serve "unpopular" but important problems, I'm open to suggestions. Feel free to totally ignore this post if it's a downer compared to the usual jolly high-jinks of this thread, home of the Hope Is A Lie image-macro 
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Feb 23, 2017 14:54
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Zephro posted:Hi goons. the refugee crisis isn't going away any time soon so the red cross is always a good shout. I'm still donating to mind from the world cup toxx but I'm not sure what good it's doing.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:55
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Stoke council is currently run by Tories, Kippers and independents by the way. Labour are the opposition. But historically it's nearly always been Labour which I guess is what counts. It's also weird how some people think that if they have a Labour MP it must be Labour's fault that the local hospital hasn't got enough money etc.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:02
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Paxman posted:Stoke council is currently run by Tories, Kippers and independents by the way. Labour are the opposition. People more just think that they pay their taxes therefore their local stuff should have money. Not a lot of people know the constituency they live in or their local MPs - I know nobody in Copeland I've spoken to knew their MP although it's only been maybe 100 people. I've heard people here in Manchester saying how they think the money spent on the trams should maybe have gone on buses without ever considering the buses are a business and the trams are owned by "us" as it were. There's just so many different things about how government works that people don't know at all. Like Pantsuit said English nationalism is a serious thing and there's so many people who see it all as a zero sum game. Things have got better for [women/blacks/whatever] and worse for me so it must be a trade and that's unfair.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:06
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Zephro posted:Hi goons.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:11
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Sion posted:'s just a bit dreich here. Had some snow here last night, haven't noticed any storm though.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:12
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TACD posted:Mind if I ask how you're going about it? I've thought "I should probably do that sometime" for like a decade but I'm not sure if I have to actually go talk to a legal man or if any of the dodgy-sounding websites offering the service are legit. https://www.gov.uk/make-will/overview That site gives a list of situations in which you might need to get legal advice. Since I'm not married to my girlfriend, I'm going to get a lawyer to inscribe the magic law words to make sure it all happens the way I want. But I know very clearly what I want to my will to say, so hopefully it won't be too difficult. I'll let you know. Zephro fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 15:17
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Incidentally one of the trickiest problems is nominating an executor. I can't decide if I want to nominate my girlfriend or not - presumably she'll have enough on her mind with the funeral and so on. I might go with my sister, but if she can't or won't for whatever reason I'm really not sure who else I'd choose. Interesting to realise that I don't seem to have any friends who are 1) close enough and 2) I would feel comfortable asking to take on such a bureaucratic and intimate task
Zephro fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 15:24
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Taear posted:Like Pantsuit said English nationalism is a serious thing and there's so many people who see it all as a zero sum game. Things have got better for [women/blacks/whatever] and worse for me so it must be a trade and that's unfair. The thing I find most alarming is, if it was a zero sum game, it'd still be ok. White men do not deserve to have it better. And yet everyone is trained to believe that it's ok, so you end up with white women and, less often, other minorities arguing these same things. It's like how the default jump now is for people to go "oh, so you're saying I'm racist". Of course you loving are, you don't want other people to have it the same as you.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:45
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Spangly A posted:The thing I find most alarming is, if it was a zero sum game, it'd still be ok. White men do not deserve to have it better. And yet everyone is trained to believe that it's ok, so you end up with white women and, less often, other minorities arguing these same things. Most racists don't believe white men to have it better though. They genuinely believe minorities are treated better by society.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:49
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Having said all that, "Jeremy" is the most middle-class name imaginable. Tristram
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Feb 23, 2017 15:50
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Gonzo McFee posted:Tristram I'm guessing that's not what it actually is and that I'm just messed up in the head, but now that I've seen it I can't unsee it. What's it meant to be?
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Feb 23, 2017 15:52
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Looks like some guy blowing on an animals rear end filmed through a metal fence.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:54
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Zephro posted:Hi goons.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:57
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and i must meme posted:Most racists don't believe white men to have it better though. They genuinely believe minorities are treated better by society. that's exactly it though, the narrative consensus led by the press and political class have us in this bizarre opposite world. Whether that's through deliberate propaganda like the Sun or the pathetic handwringing of the guardian, systematic racism promotes stories about minorities until identity politics dominates the discourse. No class consciousness, no understanding of material condition, no narrative leadership. We're in a world where saying "your ideas support systematic discrimination" is viewed as a thought-terminating insult rather than an opportunity to discuss the consequences of our actions and, as such, nobody has a loving clue about anything. We still clearly have nobody in europe seemingly capable of addressing any of these problems because they require a proper consensus, which we are unable to form from a hopelessly uninformed public. I'm not an accelerationist outside of the vague hope of the immediate termination of all human life on earth, but christ alive the last time we did anything politically "good" was the 50s. Maybe nothing can fix us but the horror of war.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:58
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There is the danger of going the other way though, people get so paranoid about being called racist that it becomes impossible to discuss the very real problems with immigration, especially when it comes to housing. For example: Muslim families can legally come to the UK and immediately buy a house. It may not be a nice house or in a nice area but they can. They get these houses so fast because as having a mortgage is not allowed in Islam they make arrangements with the local mosque. The question isn't "Why can they come over here and...", what they are doing is perfectly legal and above board. The question should be "What are the Muslim community doing right and how can we learn from them?"
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Feb 23, 2017 16:03
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Spangly A posted:The thing I find most alarming is, if it was a zero sum game, it'd still be ok. White men do not deserve to have it better. And yet everyone is trained to believe that it's ok, so you end up with white women and, less often, other minorities arguing these same things. People know racist is bad and don't like to be called a racist but they don't consider whatever their ideas are to actually be racist. The same goes for sexism - plenty of people I work with were totally supportive of Trump's pussy grabbing stuff because "Hey, everyone is inappropriate sometimes". At this point I'm not even sure what is considered racism - maybe just saying friend of the family and so on. My feeling is that people assume that their job must have gone somewhere. That they've been made redundant not because of capitalism or mechanisation but because someone else has that job and it still exists. And therefore it's a minority or a woman, to make things "more equal". John Harris' videos definitely support people having that idea.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:05
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Zephro posted:I'm just going to go ahead and ask because I've never been able to figure it out. Your avatar looks like Gabe Newell, or possibly Bill Bailey, wearing a Google Glass that weirdly isn't moving, shaking his head while staring into someone's butthole. It's Terry Funk cutting a promo down at the Double Cross Ranch. He's talking to a horse's arse, which he calls Eddie Gilbert, the man he is feuding with. It is from 1993 ECW. I may have watched that episode recently. In another promo he gets a dummy with Gilbert's photo glued on it and then runs it over with a tractor. I made a bad decision. I saw The Guardian had a podcast up on "should economists share the blame for populism?" & as I was about to play some Hearts of Iron 4 & wanted something to listen to I chose that instead of Chapo Trap House. About 40 minutes in someone asked a question about basic income, & Rachel Reeves MP is talking about how Work is good & Labour is the party of Work & I'm waiting for her to say work sets us free. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 16:06
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Islamic mortgages exist - it's charging interest that's forbidden, not moneylending per se. The way they work is that the bank buys the house and sells it to the buyer at an inflated price, then the buyer buys it from the bank in instalments.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:08
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Taear posted:People know racist is bad and don't like to be called a racist but they don't consider whatever their ideas are to actually be racist. The same goes for sexism - plenty of people I work with were totally supportive of Trump's pussy grabbing stuff because "Hey, everyone is inappropriate sometimes". I've heard grown adults refuting racism by denying using "the n word" like they're a kid swearing at school. Which is my argument; that sort of line of thought is only possible if the education system has failed you. The flip of which is that those who have been failed do not like the transitional connotation of being failures, so clearly they got by just fine and why can't kids today and I tell you what I think it's because of whichever immigrant is most in the news. It's like watching dogs chase their tails, and I really don't like thinking that about other humans. If politicians and the media don't address that no, there is something deeply wrong here, then we can't fix it. We're not going to produce good journalists with no teachers, and modern capitalism won't produce good politicians full stop. We can extend the problem of identifying causality with slacktivism or, more critically still, general protesting. People think the protest itself is in any way capable of fixing the problem, when the power dynamic is in a denial of labour. Having a million people show up for two-three days, with a spare workforce dwarfing that, does precisely piss all to hurt the state unless the media get onside, which then drops us straight into Manufactured Consent problem of who is hiring people with press credentials. The fact that the point is supposed to be to damage the state is lost, and thought bad, because property violence is bad. For the left I don't think the problem is really in identifying what is wrong, or how we fix that. Rather I can't see any other way of fixing modern politics without mass upheaval of everything at once; there's no weak point. There's also no leadership for this reform. LemonDrizzle posted:Islamic mortgages exist - it's charging interest that's forbidden, not moneylending per se. The way they work is that the bank buys the house and sells it to the buyer at an inflated price, then the buyer buys it from the bank in instalments. I know all the traditional rabbi jokes are about rules-lawyering god until he has a chuckle and says "fine sure" but drat Ijara got cracked open.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:14
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forkboy84 posted:Link Guavanaut posted:Link Thanks for these, helps make the wage-slavery pass by a little quicker. Last night, my house-mate was like 'why the gently caress are we building a million houses for immigrants?!' Now, I don't know if we are. I don't think we are, but I'm not entirely certain. So my response was 'Fake news bro. We haven't built a single house since the 70s, for immigrants or otherwise,' and he bought it. I think we on the Left need to adopt the same propaganda strategies as the Nazis?
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Feb 23, 2017 16:16
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Remember that time a man who hosed a pig let the country economically kill itself haha
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Feb 23, 2017 16:19
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LemonDrizzle posted:Islamic mortgages exist - it's charging interest that's forbidden, not moneylending per se. The way they work is that the bank buys the house and sells it to the buyer at an inflated price, then the buyer buys it from the bank in instalments. It's interesting stuff. To me it seems like certain kinds of Islamic mortgage are almost strictly superior to conventional mortgages because the bank shoulders all of the risk, and in turn you can't end up charged late fees and such.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:23
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Jeza posted:It's interesting stuff. To me it seems like certain kinds of Islamic mortgage are almost strictly superior to conventional mortgages because the bank shoulders all of the risk, and in turn you can't end up charged late fees and such.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:33
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