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I was in a competition a couple years ago that penalized a point for pulling guard. They switched away from that the following year, I think because they caught so much flack for it. I really thought it was great though, and for would love to see more no-gi comps do this.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:18
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I don't think guard pullers should be docked a point, but I am completely in favor of them being stripped nude and having their obviously small dick and balls judged by the spectators and their fellow competitors until they cry
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Feb 23, 2017 21:26
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Whoa
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Feb 23, 2017 21:30
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IMO opinion Judo and BJJ should go back to being one art.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:30
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Novum posted:IMO opinion Judo and BJJ should go back to being one art. What would be the right ruleset? BJJ plus ippon?
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Feb 23, 2017 21:33
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Wangsbig posted:I don't think guard pullers should be docked a point, but I am completely in favor of them being stripped nude and having their obviously small dick and balls judged by the spectators and their fellow competitors until they cry True
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Feb 23, 2017 21:34
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kimbo305 posted:What would be the right ruleset? BJJ plus ippon? 
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Feb 23, 2017 21:39
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kimbo305 posted:What would be the right ruleset? BJJ plus ippon? Without thinking very hard I would say that an ippon win would be kind of limiting, but it should be worth lots of points and prestige
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Feb 23, 2017 21:40
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Basically just BJJ but youre allowed to slam your opponent and you get points for high amplitude throws like wrestling
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Feb 23, 2017 21:45
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That would be rad, pulling guard counts as waza-ari for standing competitor
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Feb 23, 2017 21:49
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Novum posted:Without thinking very hard I would say that an ippon win would be kind of limiting, but it should be worth lots of points and prestige I think ippon should stand because it's on the same level of hypothetical "you just got loving merced enjoy the hospital" as a tap to a strangle or a joint lock, except instead of being saved by sportsmanship, you were saved by the mats.
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Feb 23, 2017 21:52
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How about 8pts for what would be ruled ippon?
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Feb 23, 2017 22:01
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I support merged gi grappling with points for all sorts of wacky things on the condition that no gi sub only becomes a real sport
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Feb 23, 2017 22:18
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kimbo305 posted:LionArcher and other aikido practitioners -- Watched the videos. I know I'm late to the discussion. It looks like aikido, just sloppy. His stances between engagement indicate he looks like he's done no cross training, and indicate a lack of sparring practice. His answers are okay, execution is flawed, especially of the locks. The two I saw that were obvious if applied correctly should have taken him down. The strategies look like someone who would get corrected by an instructor afterwards. If it's not strictly aikido techniques, (aka the attacker is from another art) as is this case, there's two major theory camps with the aikido circles I run in. One is let them come to you, which he does. The other camp moves towards them without engaging, but basically trying to bluff them into an appealing attack. The second camp is almost always people who hold rank in other arts, (Kung fu, judo, and karate seem to have the largest cross over to aikido). They are also far more likely to just strike if they see an opening. As an aside from the other guy who worked security at a college bar, we did have terrible security when I started working there. Almost all of the bad poo poo (aka the first two years) happened when I first started working at the bar, and a lot of it was escalated by a couple of other security guards and some off duty cops that were buddies of theirs who would pick fights with meatheads. Once those security guards were fired (and two bar tenders who would over serve) and me and a few others who were more... level headed guards were the only ones working, the rate of fights fell exactly into your category. As for fights I actually engaged in that started with my interactions, it was the same as you. I think four? I'm fine being called a poo poo head and all that.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:19
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kimbo305 posted:How about 8pts for what would be ruled ippon? I'd counter with make ippon the same as a submission, and no other takedowns worth any, but then make 10 seconds of positional dominance worth 1 point (side, mount, ns, back, or turtle). Ippon would only be awarded to clearly high-amplitude throws executed with control (ie something that would result in a KO or serious injury if done on a non-padded floor) and require positional dominance on the landing - that's a high bar. None of this "you have my back after the throw but I threw you so I won" bullshit. And then add debilitating penalties for stalling or passivity - yellow/red card system. You fuckers are going to fight and it's going to be fukken rad as gently caress
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Feb 23, 2017 22:36
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IMO the best Judo/BJJ hybrid would just be allowing Judo rules with leg grabs and without bad stoppage rules for groundwork, letting players fight on the ground longer and less stupid submission restrictions. Lots of bad refs think kimuras and poo poo are illegal in Judo. Also, slightly stricter scoring rules for ippon. Gotta really blast a dude for that score, otherwise throw and keep fighting on the ground.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:36
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hi liter posted:IMO the best Judo/BJJ hybrid would just be allowing Judo rules with leg grabs and without bad stoppage rules for groundwork, letting players fight on the ground longer and less stupid submission restrictions. Lots of bad refs think kimuras and poo poo are illegal in Judo. If the kimura attacks the shoulder it's actually illegal.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:38
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I'm cool with ippon BJJ but the only way I'm allowing pins is if you must secure your opponent, retrieve the washable marker hidden in your kimono, and imaginary kill them with red ink. Wooden short sword covered in lipstick will be substituted for nationals and worlds. Also: one time back in aikido days I did some ground work with an old judo black belt. For fun, He had actually worked out some hakama (the dress) based submissions and positions. Cool and terrifying! So, we need to allow the full range of grapple clothes. I want to drape my flowing robes Round some fools shoulders and strangle him like an octopus.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:43
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LionArcher posted:Watched the videos. I know I'm late to the discussion. It looks like aikido, just sloppy. His stances between engagement indicate he looks like he's done no cross training, and indicate a lack of sparring practice. His answers are okay, execution is flawed, especially of the locks. The two I saw that were obvious if applied correctly should have taken him down. quote:The strategies look like someone who would get corrected by an instructor afterwards.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:50
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CommonShore posted:Ippon would only be awarded to clearly high-amplitude throws executed with control (ie something that would result in a KO or serious injury if done on a non-padded floor) and require positional dominance on the landing - that's a high bar. That seems like a higher bar than sport judo, even. With just scoring high amplitude throws (with ref discretion on landing with control), sacrifice throws are rewarded by the same chance to scramble and reverse position that already exists for not finishing takedowns. Rigging up different rulesets for sparring sounds really fun, and I wish it could be done safely wrt some of the more risky throws for people unfamiliar with them.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:51
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I did a couple tiny competitions under freestyle judo rules, which is kinda like what you guys are talking about. They only award ippon for absolutely perfect throws then it's a 4 to 1 point scale. Pins score points depending on duration, all chokes and armlocks of any type are legal. Sweeps, guard passes and turnovers from turtle score 1 point. Guard pulling is a penalty, can't hold closed guard for more than a few seconds, lots of other rules. It kinda split the difference between judo and bjj, but the scoring is super subjective and there's only like 2 people that actually know all the rules.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:58
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Xguard86 posted:I'm cool with ippon BJJ but the only way I'm allowing pins is if you must secure your opponent, retrieve the washable marker hidden in your kimono, and imaginary kill them with red ink. Medieval wrestling manuals have very little groundwork, and I assume this is the reason.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:58
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Xguard86 posted:I'm cool with ippon BJJ but the only way I'm allowing pins is if you must secure your opponent, retrieve the washable marker hidden in your kimono, and imaginary kill them with red ink. I'm cool with that pin rule.
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Feb 23, 2017 23:01
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Dave Grool posted:I did a couple tiny competitions under freestyle judo rules, which is kinda like what you guys are talking about. They only award ippon for absolutely perfect throws then it's a 4 to 1 point scale. Pins score points depending on duration, all chokes and armlocks of any type are legal. Sweeps, guard passes and turnovers from turtle score 1 point. Guard pulling is a penalty, can't hold closed guard for more than a few seconds, lots of other rules. It kinda split the difference between judo and bjj, but the scoring is super subjective and there's only like 2 people that actually know all the rules. See my problem with restricting guard is that it eliminates the strategic elements of BJJ. The ideal balance between the two would set up the competition as a rules balance between BJJ strategy - cook em, position before submission, play guard, work for the sub - and Judo explosiveness - ippon, snag an ugly choke in a scramble, smash your way out of pins and through guard, crush your opponent so hard that he wants to die. Though one thing that makes judo groundwork so aggressive at times is that you only have seconds to get something going. Unfortunately that also makes it passive at other times. I'm not sure how any of that would translate over to a rule set in which a 20 second pin isn't as good as a submission.
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Feb 23, 2017 23:08
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Freestyle Sambo is the best ruleset but it's dead now so 
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Feb 24, 2017 03:23
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Sambo's really quick leg locks and knee attacks work like how aikido wristlocks want to.
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Feb 24, 2017 03:27
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So I'm having a lot of fun at my Judo club, but what's the deal with Judoka turtling and/or giving up their backs constantly? Today, a green belt even rolled onto their stomach when I was in top mount  We're not supposed to be doing submissions since we haven't covered them yet so I can't even go for the choke. Subyng fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 08:17
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It's a position that's easy to defend long enough for a judo referee to stand us both up. Also if they're higher level than you they're probably trying to work from the worst position that isn't an outright pin.
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Feb 24, 2017 08:30
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Why is Aikido sounding more and more like Scientology?
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Feb 24, 2017 09:43
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Subyng posted:So I'm having a lot of fun at my Judo club, but what's the deal with Judoka turtling and/or giving up their backs constantly? Today, a green belt even rolled onto their stomach when I was in top mount Yep, avoiding the pin. Think of it as practicing your grappling against someone who just wants to disengage.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:48
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VulgarandStupid posted:Why is Aikido sounding more and more like Scientology? What does this mean
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Feb 24, 2017 17:33
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kimbo305 posted:LionArcher and other aikido practitioners -- I studied Aikido for about 10 years and have a black belt. Also started BJJ about 5 years ago and that's all I train now, mainly because (oddly) I find it easier on my body. I watched the 2-minute video of two aikidoka sparring. Honestly it doesn't look much like aikido to me. It just looks weird, although there were a few aikido moves in there. I feel aikido is more about redirecting force/energy than blocking it or facing it head-on and I didn't see a lot of that. But that's also really difficult against someone with a good base that knows what they're doing. One of the problems/challenges with aikido is that you never spar or test your skills like that. I did it for 10 years and never did anything like in the video. Because of that it doesn't prepare you well for sparring or 1-on-1 setup fights unless you pair it with another art.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:30
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a martial art that does not prepare you to art martially against your fellow man sounds fine as long as everyone in it is explicitly aware of this. are you ever throughout your aikido training told that you're just kind of doing it for funsies and to not try and wristlock an assailant because you will be easily and brutally murdered?
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Feb 24, 2017 19:35
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Undeclared Eggplant posted:I studied Aikido for about 10 years and have a black belt. Also started BJJ about 5 years ago and that's all I train now, mainly because (oddly) I find it easier on my body. Starting in response to your last sentence, if you never did any sort of live exercises like that, even as a black belt, how do you know what aikido training would look in those situations? I find it interesting that the 3 aikido commenters are on a spectrum about how much engagement is shown: - Siivola: stepping right up to the point of engagement and waiting to counter/draw into a trap - LionArcher: "let them come to you, which he does" and not "moves towards them without engaging, but basically trying to bluff them into an appealing attack" - Undeclared Eggplant: not a lot of redirection, some blocking/facing head-on The thing that fatherdog always harped on, which I agree with, is that any fighting system that works will converge on the same look, with personal preferences and physical attributes informing strategic tendencies (like waiting to counter and moving off line to escape offensive motion). It's discouraging that someone who's done aikido for a long time can visualize how it might be executed in a live situation and yet not see it at all being used by another (presumed) practioner. Overall, I'm just dissatisfied that there's so little video to look at. 2 of the 3 above don't think of what I linked as good aikido, but all of the "alive" proponents in this thread have no other points of reference, available online, anyways.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:34
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In my experience, unless you severely outclass your opponent in weight, strength, reach, or technique, waiting for your opponent to do things is how you get punched, kicked, thrown or submitted. Passivity tends to get you beaten up, so in my mind Aikido as a "Let them make the first move" seems antithetical to actually "winning" a fight, Winning defined as walking away with less damage than your opponent.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:41
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In a sport context, I think it's a pretty low bar to have enough defense and just keep backing away from all offense. My take on what standing and waiting is that they're ready to snatch up the first mistake and exploit it.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:04
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kimbo305 posted:In a sport context, I think it's a pretty low bar to have enough defense and just keep backing away from all offense. My take on what standing and waiting is that they're ready to snatch up the first mistake and exploit it. Hence my wonder how an Akido player would do with a boxer simply jabbing from distance. It would seem, not well. I kinda want to fight the guy in the first 2 videos but I think they have a no head punch rule going on. And I'm terrible at fighting.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:29
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How would aikido handle SAFTA?
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Feb 24, 2017 22:38
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I used to think that aikido made sense if you imagined it in a context of swordfighting. Arms-length wrist-grabby grappling is suboptimal in a weaponless wrestling context, but I can imagine the situation arising where two swords lock together so you grab a wrist and send them flying. But then, aikido is from the 20th century, when swords were long obsolete, so idea that idea kind of falls flat.kimbo305 posted:I find it interesting that the 3 aikido commenters are on a spectrum about how much engagement is shown: Pretty sure we're all on the spectrum in this thread
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Feb 24, 2017 23:38
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willie_dee posted:Hence my wonder how an Akido player would do with a boxer simply jabbing from distance. Just parry and move, sort of like how the guy vs TKD was doing to uncommitted kicks.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:43
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