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The only thing holding me back from being a Magic Hall of Famer™ is the price of Scalding Tarns and not being a contract lawyer.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:19
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Elyv posted:hey let's go back to talking about beginning of combat I'm glad toby is protecting us from those evil gotchasharks trying to trick us into thinking they're moving to declare attackers with ambiguous vague statements like that.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:23
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Can't you just say "pass priority" in your first main?
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Feb 24, 2017 00:23
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Trilas posted:Can't you just say "pass priority" in your first main? If you don't understand the rules of magic then you really shouldn't be playing magic.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:27
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Trilas posted:Can't you just say "pass priority" in your first main? The person who did that went to declare attackers and couldn't crew his vehicles in time.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:40
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Babylon Astronaut posted:I'm apparently an idiot for thinking you can maintain priority in the beginning of combat phase, so I'd love to hear how it is possible outside of saying combat, beginning of combat, or describing exactly when in the next phase you would like to maintain priority. It's not possible. That's the point. You can only get priority there by referencing a reason why you are wanting priority there. Again, for reference, http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2016/10/18/do-not-pass-go/ and http://blogs.magicjudges.org/whatsupdocs/2016/05/26/attacking-blocking-and-shortcuts/
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Feb 24, 2017 00:43
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Just do your stuff in your first main phase. If there's actually a reason to do something in the beginning of combat step it's not difficult to make that happen, it's only ever an issue when there's literally no reason but you still want to do it because you think it makes you look clever.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:45
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Babylon Astronaut posted:I'm apparently an idiot for thinking you can maintain priority in the beginning of combat phase, so I'd love to hear how it is possible outside of saying combat, beginning of combat, or describing exactly when in the next phase you would like to maintain priority. Tell your opponent why you want to go to beginning of combat. That's it. That's all you have to do.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:48
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Found my old computer and looking through my old harddrive, here have a picture circa 2007 Future Sight spoilers
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Feb 24, 2017 00:49
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Jabor posted:Just do your stuff in your first main phase. If there's actually a reason to do something in the beginning of combat step it's not difficult to make that happen, it's only ever an issue when there's literally no reason but you still want to do it because you think it makes you look clever. I can contrive a situation where I would want to act in my Beginning of Combat step and I don't want to tell my opponent to do something before hand, but that isn't really the point. The point is is that the active player gets priority in the beginning of every phase, which is just a rule of magic. I'm okay with there being a shortcut where "Combat?" means pass priority in BoC, but the whole reason for those shortcuts to exist is to clear up any sort of ambiguity that could come from people being less explicit. Just like how whenever you cast a spell, the default shortcut is that you pass priority to your opponent unless you otherwise state. What I'm NOT okay with, is when someone is being as explicit as they are suggesting to be in that tweet, and then getting hosed over because judge policy is to override the rules of the game as written and not let you take an action that the game explicitly allows you to do.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:00
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suicidesteve posted:Tell your opponent why you want to go to beginning of combat. That's it. That's all you have to do. It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge. GonSmithe posted:Found my old computer and looking through my old harddrive, here have a picture circa 2007 Future Sight spoilers Wow that's an awful card, I mean Magus of the Future ain't great but that's unplayable garbage even in 2007.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:00
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suicidesteve posted:Tell your opponent why you want to go to beginning of combat. That's it. That's all you have to do. Can I lie or is this some Frankie Peanuts poo poo?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:00
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GonSmithe posted:Found my old computer and looking through my old harddrive, here have a picture circa 2007 Future Sight spoilers I'm so glad flip cards were a failure.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:02
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akulanization posted:It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:03
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akulanization posted:It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge. Lol Post of the year 2017?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:07
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I'm going to have a registered Justice of the Peace come with me to my next FNM so he can ask my opponent to countersign the document below.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:08
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akulanization posted:It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge. You seem to have some trouble telling when you've gotten too aggressive.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:13
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ChewyLSB posted:I can contrive a situation where I would want to act in my Beginning of Combat step and I don't want to tell my opponent to do something before hand, but that isn't really the point. The point is is that the active player gets priority in the beginning of every phase, which is just a rule of magic. I'm okay with there being a shortcut where "Combat?" means pass priority in BoC, but the whole reason for those shortcuts to exist is to clear up any sort of ambiguity that could come from people being less explicit. Just like how whenever you cast a spell, the default shortcut is that you pass priority to your opponent unless you otherwise state. So now you have to draw a line somewhere between this and "combat?", where one side puts you into the beginning of combat step while the other puts you into declare attackers. In order to have unambiguous communication, you need an objective rule that both players can look at, so that both can have the same understanding of a proposed shortcut. Right now, there is a very clear line in the sand - what would you propose as a different line that would be more palatable to you? akulanization posted:It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge. If you say "combat?" with a toolcraft exemplar and an artifact in play, you are offering to pass until your toolcraft exemplar trigger resolves. Then you will have priority in your beginning of combat step. If there's actually a reason for you to do something in your beginning of combat step instead of in your main phase, it is very easy to do that.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:14
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Alris posted:I'm going to have a registered Justice of the Peace come with me to my next FNM so he can ask my opponent to countersign the document below. "It with a heavy heart..." Great writing there, slick.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:15
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akulanization posted:It is literally impossible to crew Heart of Kiran with Toolcraft Exemplar, because the trigger has to resolve before you can do so and you can't stay in the step even if you have triggers in it that you might want to respond to or take actions after. Because sharking by the inactive player is cool and good even if the active player can describe exactly what they want to do. Saying, "Begin combat, Toolcraft trigger holding priority if it goes through." is no different from what that tweet quoted to the judge. Also please source your quotes.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:18
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This is all very confusing now, is that Toby guy saying nothing can let you retain priority at the beginning of combat phase? if so I have questions: 1. Why does MTGO allow you to manually put a stop in that phase? 2. When can you cast "Angelic Favor"? 3. What about "May" triggers like that on "Battle-Rattle Shaman", is that just a "oops sorry missed trigger sucks to be you" now?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:18
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Jabor posted:So now you have to draw a line somewhere between this and "combat?", where one side puts you into the beginning of combat step while the other puts you into declare attackers. I think 'I want to move to my beginning of combat phase and hold priority' is pretty unambiguous, no? Just like how the default for casting a spell is passing priority unless you specifically say 'Cast scapeshift, hold priority'. I'm okay with the default to leaving your second mainphase being NAP having priority and them passing meaning Declare Attackers. I just think that if someone is being explicit should allow them to move to BoC with priority, like the game literally allows you to do. And while MTGO is garbage, someone who learned to play the game on MTGO would think that would be possible, as well.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:20
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ChewyLSB posted:I'm glad that Toby Elliot has gone literally loving insane and has decided that it should be impossible for the Active Player to hold priority in beginning of combat without any triggered abilities. the modo bug where stopping at beginning of combat is legal
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Feb 24, 2017 01:22
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ChewyLSB posted:I think 'I want to move to my beginning of combat phase and hold priority' is pretty unambiguous, no? Just like how the default for casting a spell is passing priority unless you specifically say 'Cast scapeshift, hold priority'. So how clear do you have to be? Where do you draw the line between "clear enough, it's beginning of combat" and "unclear, it's declare attackers"? Are you sure you're not just turning it into a slightly different avenue for people to use clever wordplay to shark their opponents? Right now there's a clear and unambiguous line, though it might not be exactly where you want. Where would you move it to while keeping it clear and unambiguous?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:23
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Angry Grimace posted:They're also putting Monarch on commander because of Palace Jailer, so yay, I guess. I made a real wacky group Queen Marchesa EDH the other day where my creatures are nothing but Walls and a Castle/Royalty subtheme, being able to play this on MTGO (lol) will be fun Tribal EDH Walls own is basically what I'm saying. Alris posted:The only thing holding me back from being a Magic Hall of Famer™ is the price of Scalding Tarns and not being a contract lawyer. buy proxies, enjoy being a hall of famer my friend
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Feb 24, 2017 01:27
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AceClown posted:This is all very confusing now, is that Toby guy saying nothing can let you retain priority at the beginning of combat phase? 1) because this is a tournament rule and not a game rule 2) whenever you want. If it's your combat (which is dumb, since the angel doesn't have haste, but w/e), you would say "move to combat and cast Angelic Favor." If they interrupt you, you can change your mind just like every other shortcut. 3) depends on whether the trigger targets. All triggers these days are may triggers. Just point out the trigger like usual.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:29
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Jabor posted:So how clear do you have to be? Where do you draw the line between "clear enough, it's beginning of combat" and "unclear, it's declare attackers"? Are you sure you're not just turning it into a slightly different avenue for people to use clever wordplay to shark their opponents? Do you get confused whenever anybody does any action that isn't the default action? If I say 'I'm casting scapeshift and holding priority' do you think I'm trying to angle shoot you into thinking I'm passing? The entire reason for shortcuts and 'default actions' to exist is to allow the game to flow more smoothly but still allow players to take actions that are allowed by the rules. I think if I say "I want to move to beginning of combat and hold priority" its pretty unambiguous what I want to do.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:37
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AceClown posted:This is all very confusing now, is that Toby guy saying nothing can let you retain priority at the beginning of combat phase? 1. Because it's able to do so easily and without confusion. Nobody has ever made the claim that playing MTGO is identical to paper Magic. 2. During combat? 3. May triggers have always been assumed to have been declined if not acknowledged. If you declare Battle-Rattle Shaman as attacking and say "attack for 4," or if your opponent doesn't block and you say "take 4" nobody is going to call that missed. As an aside, this is the biggest issue I have with the rules. Somehow a creature's P/T changing isn't considered to be affecting the board until it does damage. Same for something like Rabblemaster. If you put the token down during declare attackers (before actually attacking) nobody is going to say you missed it. ChewyLSB posted:Do you get confused whenever anybody does any action that isn't the default action? If I say 'I'm casting scapeshift and holding priority' do you think I'm trying to angle shoot you into thinking I'm passing? The entire reason for shortcuts and 'default actions' to exist is to allow the game to flow more smoothly but still allow players to take actions that are allowed by the rules. I think if I say "I want to move to beginning of combat and hold priority" its pretty unambiguous what I want to do. Why do you want to hold priority in your beginning of combat? Nobody has ever had an answer for this that isn't already covered by current rules.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:39
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"Combat?" formerly being an ambiguous term and firmly in angle shooting territory is a reasonable thing to think and say. New rule is nicer. Similarly, so does the little upward inflection some players do where it makes it sound like a question to imply passing priority but can be plausibly denied if a judge got involved.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:41
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ChewyLSB posted:Do you get confused whenever anybody does any action that isn't the default action? If I say 'I'm casting scapeshift and holding priority' do you think I'm trying to angle shoot you into thinking I'm passing? The entire reason for shortcuts and 'default actions' to exist is to allow the game to flow more smoothly but still allow players to take actions that are allowed by the rules. I think if I say "I want to move to beginning of combat and hold priority" its pretty unambiguous what I want to do. Are you deliberately trying to avoid answering the question? In your mind, which of the following things are "unambiguous" enough that they'll put me in the beginning of combat step (and if my opponent responds, they'll be doing so in my main phase), and which of them are ambiguous enough that they'll put me straight into attacks (and if my opponent doesn't respond, they'll have missed their chance to tap down my potential attackers)? - "go to beginning of combat?" - "beginning of combat?" - "beginning combat?" - "begin combat" - "*mumble mumble* combat?" - "combat?"
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Feb 24, 2017 01:45
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suicidesteve posted:Why do you want to hold priority in your beginning of combat? Nobody has ever had an answer for this that isn't already covered by current rules. I want to attack with Jade Statue. Who cares really, it's an action which is totally allowed by the rules even if it's almost always suboptimal so I should be able to do it if I want to without working that hard.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:47
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Lets all agree that the rule before and the rule now both suck. Both leaves room for rules lawyering which is one of the worst parts of the game. Like Tom Ross said........... https://twitter.com/Boss_MTG/status/827599665675763712
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Feb 24, 2017 01:47
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Your mother wears "combat?" boots.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:47
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Jabor posted:If you say "combat?" with a toolcraft exemplar and an artifact in play, you are offering to pass until your toolcraft exemplar trigger resolves. Then you will have priority in your beginning of combat step. That's not how a judge in this thread and judges elsewhere seem to be interpreting things. I don't have a problem with there being a shortcut, I have some misgivings about about the etiquette of the game becoming both more important and less forgiving for that shortcut at the same time most players might get tripped up by it for the first time. I'm mystified by how some judges seem to believe that even if you don't use the shortcut at all you have opted into it despite clearly stating a desire to go to your own beginning of combat step and being explicit about where you are in the turn the entire time. Sickening posted:Lets all agree that the rule before and the rule now both suck. Both leaves room for rules lawyering which is one of the worst parts of the game. Like Tom Ross said........... Yeah, rules lawyering for an advantage is bad.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:48
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suicidesteve posted:Why do you want to hold priority in your beginning of combat? to trigger people i'm playing to make rants about it
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Feb 24, 2017 01:49
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Held priority in the lion's eye. —Zhalfirin saying meaning "move to declare attackers"
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Feb 24, 2017 01:51
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akulanization posted:That's not how a judge in this thread and judges elsewhere seem to be interpreting things. Please point this out because if any judge is doing this they are Wrong and need to be told that. Do note though that untargeted triggers like toolcraft exemplar are different from targeted ones like weldfast engineer.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:52
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So a store in the area offered sealed entry for free for the first 16 people. Only right before it began did they then let people know it was repacked sealed. What the holy gently caress.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:53
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black potus posted:Held priority in the lion's eye. Not enough Jacetice League references. Try this: Held priority with the lion's eye. -Jace Beleren, to Liliana Vess, meaning "move to declare attackers"
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Feb 24, 2017 01:53
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black potus posted:Held priority in the lion's eye.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:53
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