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Copeland was a lovely result in a perfect storm of reasons for it to go badly. A cynical person might think that Reed, who hated Corbyn, was banking on that.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:49
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Tesseraction posted:Copeland was a lovely result in a perfect storm of reasons for it to go badly. A cynical person might think that Reed, who hated Corbyn, was banking on that. Would those reasons be 'labor and Corbyn being deeply unpopular locally and nationally'?
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Feb 24, 2017 12:51
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I mean it is very difficult to assess what making a good job of Brexit is. It's a one-off event, there's no transparency on the process, little transparency on what our realistic best case scenarios are likely to be. No standard to be held to, just a vague wishlist of things we want but probably can't get. As with most things people will talk in circles about it for a while, and then we'll decide it was a good job or a bad one five years down the line when we live in a dystopian hellhole/British paradise through a combination of ends-justification and maybe some post-mortem interviews/exposés.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:51
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ukle posted:Its going to be Clive Lewis if the rumours are true of Owen Smith and others trying to get him to stand. Dan Jarvis is far to unknown with the general populus and will give another sense of 'who' that Owen Smith had when he stood, while Clive Lewis has been in the news, doesn't have a bad rating and appears to have a good rating with the membership. Clive does not have the support to run it won't be him. It really should be a woman if they're serious about beating him
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Feb 24, 2017 12:51
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JFairfax posted:do you think the tories have a clue when it comes to brexit? What I think doesn't matter. At the moment, the tories have a clear strategy which they're sticking too on brexit. This strategy doesn't alienate most of their own voters. The same can't be said for Labour. This whataboutism doesn't work here when Labour are being so much worse than the tories. And of course competency matters. People vote on what they see as the most competent option. At the moment it isn't Labour. Cerebral Bore posted:Corbyn and whatever real or imagined infight-prone leftists that exist within the party are at most number three on Labour's list of problems, below a cear-complete lack of talent and the diehard New Labourites, who have repeatedly shown that they will focus all of their energies on tearing down any party leader who doesn't subscribe 100% to the orthodoxy of St. Tony. Yes it's the New Labourites that are the real problem here. Maybe come on out of your bubble? Private Eye fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 12:51
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Fans posted:Clive does not have the support to run it won't be him. It really should be a woman if they're serious about beating him Liz Kendall could have another go maybe?
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Feb 24, 2017 12:54
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Fans posted:Clive does not have the support to run it won't be him. It really should be a woman if they're serious about beating him Who? Yvette Cooper?
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Feb 24, 2017 12:55
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Pissflaps posted:If Corbyn was principled he would have quit by now. It's true, I understand this Copeland thing is a historic loss. It's unheard of, and Labour had held the seat since the 1920s to boot. I'm strarting to think maybe corbyn is just some arrogant fool who thinks that he is above criticism because he won, and they lost. "No one can make me quit!" Is not a good enough reason for the stupid bastard to stay around.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:55
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Labour's biggest problem is that they don't have any ideas beyond 'purge the Blairites!' or 'purge the Corbynites!' EDIT: VVV as we see
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Feb 24, 2017 12:56
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Private Eye posted:Yes it's the New Labourites that are the real problem here.  This is a serious long term problem that started with the marketization of everything, including the vocabulary we use to talk about problems. It has failed and now its hens are coming home to roost. The absence of a credible left alternative in the sphere of public discussion is a symptom of that.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:57
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Private Eye posted:What I think doesn't matter. At the moment, the tories have a clear strategy which they're sticking too on brexit. This strategy doesn't alienate most of their own voters. The same can't be said for Labour. This whataboutism doesn't work here when Labour are being so much worse than the tories. I think we've clearly established that the problem for labour is that either position (pro or anti) brexit alienates a large number of their current and potential voters. there is no silver bullet position for them to take.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:57
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JFairfax posted:I think we've clearly established that the problem for labour is that either position (pro or anti) brexit alienates a large number of their current and potential voters. there is no silver bullet position for them to take. The position they've taken is the one that alienates more of their own voters. It's idiotic.
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Feb 24, 2017 12:58
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hakimashou posted:"No one can make me quit!" Is not a good enough reason for the stupid bastard to stay around. What about if the membership of the party want him as leader? What he should do is have a leadership elec...oh
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Feb 24, 2017 13:00
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Tesseraction posted:Copeland was a lovely result in a perfect storm of reasons for it to go badly. A cynical person might think that Reed, who hated Corbyn, was banking on that. I did think after the leadership challenge failed the next step was forcing a couple of by elections, though I expected the move to come from older MPs nearing retirement age - either way with the boundary changes coming up it seemed possible. Though complaining about "sabotaging Corbyn by letting an election happen" puts you in a weird position
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Feb 24, 2017 13:00
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Heisenberg1276 posted:What about if the membership of the party want him as leader? What he should do is have a leadership elec...oh The membership are wrong.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:01
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Perhaps Labour should elect a new membership.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:01
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Fangz posted:Labour's biggest problem is that they don't have any ideas beyond 'purge the Blairites!' or 'purge the Corbynites!' People need to let go of their hate for Tony Blair. You won't go to hell for not condemning him every chance you get. Turning on and constantly poo poo-talking the man who lead three general election victories and kept the tories In their hole for thirteen years was not going to lead to a good outcome. "Lets elect Jeremy Corbyn because gently caress Tony Blair!!!" was idiocy, and now look what you get.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:04
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Perhaps people who believe in the aims of the Labour party but are unsatisifed with the direction it is currently taking should join the Labour party so they can be involved and try and bring about the version of the party they belueve will be best for the country.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:05
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Heisenberg1276 posted:What about if the membership of the party want him as leader? What he should do is have a leadership elec...oh He should realize that people sometimes want things that are bad for them and Do The Right Thing.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:05
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maintaining an ambiguous deniable position regarding Brexit is not the worst stance for the party to take, as I said well since last year, when this was the Corbyn team's apparent tack
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Feb 24, 2017 13:05
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Labour has a campaign lined up for today which is actually pretty good. "The Road to Brexit" is about setting out how Labour would implement Brexit and do a better job of it than the Tories, and given that there's no point moaning about the Article 50 vote any more it seems like the right thing to do. https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/835081131057905664 Sometimes Corbyn and his team seem pretty good. They need someone who understands PR a bit better. "Today we say this thing. Then tomorrow we say the thing again. Then our timetable for the next 30 days is saying the thing again and again every day."
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Feb 24, 2017 13:06
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Let's hold hands and try and have a kumbaya moment. Pro-Corbyn people: please list 3 good things about Blair and New Labour Anti-Corbyn people: please list 3 good things about Corbyn and his folks No passive-aggressiveness please
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Feb 24, 2017 13:06
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Pissflaps posted:Would those reasons be 'labor and Corbyn being deeply unpopular locally and nationally'? That is one reason, yes. Another is the Tories riding a wave of enthusiasm over the Brexit result. Another is them focusing their efforts on Stoke, etc. Corbyn's unpopularity is not the One Small Thing stopping Labour being an electoral behemoth.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:07
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Paxman posted:Labour has a campaign lined up for today which is actually pretty good. "The Road to Brexit" is about setting out how Labour would implement Brexit and do a better job of it than the Tories, and given that there's no point moaning about the Article 50 vote any more it seems like the right thing to do. It will fail because it has a big picture of Jeremy Corbyn on it with the words "Leader of the Labour Party" printed underneath.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:07
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Paxman posted:"Today we say this thing. Then tomorrow we say the thing again. Then our timetable for the next 30 days is saying the thing again and again every day." This is what a competent PR team would be telling him, I mean
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Feb 24, 2017 13:08
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JFairfax posted:I think we've clearly established that the problem for labour is that either position (pro or anti) brexit alienates a large number of their current and potential voters. there is no silver bullet position for them to take. Whatever I think about their position on brexit, the three line whip to enforce it was an incredibly stupid idea, and again showed Corbyn's inexperience. Fine, Labour should support brexit, but to put the strongest possible discipline on that vote when your voter base is vastly remain, and when there's no need to you to do it? And then afterwards? Fine, if you must lay down a three line whip, then bloody well enforce it. To renege and just write a strongly worded letter to the people who defy it (including bloody whips!!)? That comes across two ways, either he's spineless and can't enforce party discipline, or more likely, if they go then there won't be anyone to replace them, which makes him look even more friendless in the party he leads, neutering him further. So, from this, Corbyn's come across as weak, inexperienced, naive, spineless and friendless. How does May look in comparison?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:10
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Fangz posted:Let's hold hands and try and have a kumbaya moment. mo mowlem, tony blair knowing he's going to hell, minimum wage
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Feb 24, 2017 13:11
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Pissflaps posted:The membership are wrong. Why is your new av that guy who got dragged out a restaurant for being racist to Jamie Foxx? What did you do this time?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:12
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There's going to be a probe into referendum spending. The DUP has slipped out an announcement that they received half a million pounds from the Constitutional Research Council headed by Scottish Tory Richard Cook, about half of which was spent on a advertising campaign in the Metro. As in the London paper. Which doesn't circulate in Northern Ireland. Some dodgy shifting around of money there
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Feb 24, 2017 13:12
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It's been blatantly obvious the UK is irreparably hosed since we voted for brexit. If the public seems to actually like theresa's intentionally terrible government there's literally nothing you can do. Go read other threads I'd totally forgot this one existed and it improved my life massively. The first thing I see coming in here was someone asking pissflaps who he wanted as Labour leader... STILL. Go read and post in other threads here I'll spoil the ending for you: we do brexit, Dacre and Murdoch make everyone love it. The Tories win the next 2 elections.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:13
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Tesseraction posted:That is one reason, yes. Another is the Tories riding a wave of enthusiasm over the Brexit result. Another is them focusing their efforts on Stoke, etc. Well, no, it's a massive thing. Labour are supporting the Brexit process now - why aren't they benefitting from the wave of optimism?
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Feb 24, 2017 13:15
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kustomkarkommando posted:There's going to be a probe into referendum spending. The DUP has slipped out an announcement that they received half a million pounds from the Constitutional Research Council headed by Scottish Tory Richard Cook, about half of which was spent on a advertising campaign in the Metro. The Metro is on trains all across Britain. But yeah, sounds like it's Tories giving money to the Daily Mail and General Trust.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:16
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nopantsjack posted:Go read and post in other threads here I'll spoil the ending for you: we do brexit, Dacre and Murdoch make everyone love it. The Tories win the next 2 elections. I kinda doubt they'll make everyone love it, the more likely play is to blame Foreigners somehow.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:16
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nopantsjack posted:It's been blatantly obvious the UK is irreparably hosed since we voted for brexit. If the public seems to actually like theresa's intentionally terrible government there's literally nothing you can do. Maybe we can put forward a competent opposition? As has happened throughout the past loving centuries in the parliamentary system. When the government was popular the opposition didn't just give up. What's the loving point in an opposition that implodes just when the country needs it.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:17
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Who was it who put white text on that background, christ, at least put a drop shadow on the text
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Feb 24, 2017 13:17
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Tesseraction posted:Corbyn's unpopularity is not the One Small Thing stopping Labour being an electoral behemoth. Its stopping potentially 13% more people nationally from voting for Labour based on polling. 13% is a colossal amount in the FTP system and would take Labour into a majority government.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:19
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Private Eye posted:Maybe we can put forward a competent opposition? As has happened throughout the past loving centuries in the parliamentary system. When the government was popular the opposition didn't just give up. What's the loving point in an opposition that implodes just when the country needs it. I'm not sure posting in this thread counts as putting forward a competent opposition though. Fangz posted:I kinda doubt they'll make everyone love it, the more likely play is to blame Foreigners somehow. I'm not so sure, we were all like "at least now the tories are out of coalition people will see them for the loathsome cunts they are," and people just liked them more. Then instead of Teflon Dave they just stuck one of their least popular politicians in the PM seat without an election and the public loved that too. Every Remain horror story could happen at once and it doesn't matter at all if all the papers people actually read are telling them its going great and Johnny Foreigner is spreading lies. Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 13:21
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ukle posted:Its stopping potentially 13% more people nationally from voting for Labour based on polling. 'More likely to vote Labour' != 'Will vote Labour'
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Feb 24, 2017 13:21
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nopantsjack posted:I'm not sure posting in this thread counts as putting forward a competent opposition though. True, very astute. But at least we can discuss that competent opposition in this thread. Tesseraction posted:Corbyn's unpopularity is not the One Small Thing stopping Labour being an electoral behemoth. No, but it's stopping them from being a credible opposition.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:25
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Gonzo McFee posted:The Metro is on trains all across Britain. Northern Ireland has special rules for party political donations which means that unlike in the rest of the UK the identity of large donors don't have to be made public (to protect them from security threats). Looks like someone was trying to be sneaky.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:25
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