The Democratic National Chairperson election 2017

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BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Alter Ego posted:

...because their voters are single-issue idiots. I thought we were better than that, no? Twice now we have seen that no matter how awful the other guy is, you cannot stand solely in opposition to him--you must give people a reason to vote for you. Why is this such a hard thing to grasp?

I mean the 2006 gains in the House and Senate were basically predicated on "Stop Bush."

I am not saying we shouldn't have a message of what we'd do with power, but I think y'all are understating how being the actual opposition party is a hell of a lot easier to organize around than being de jure party in power (even if we were only nominally in power then.)

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:29

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# ? May 19, 2024 08:44

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

JeffersonClay posted:

If yo're running against president trump, "fix what trump broke" is in fact a message of positive change.

Okay, and how you do that is by countering the attempted repeal of Obamacare with declaring that healthcare rights must be expanded further, you counter right-to-work by reaffirming your support for organized labor and a high minimum wage, etc. etc.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:29

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Alter Ego posted:

Oh yay, back to a poll-driven campaign.

Better than whatever gut feeling strategy you're advocating.

Fiction posted:

That's only the tip of the spear, though. You still need an overarching message for the campaigns or you can't win. Where are you getting "more" from? It may be a slam dunk issue but there's no proof that it's enough of a unifying message among non-Democrats to be enough on its own.

53% of independents think Russia definitely interfered and 66% think it's an important issue. 41% of republicans think it's an important issue FFS. I know y'all have trouble embracing a strategy that would even in some small way validate Hillary Clinton but you need to get over it, this poo poo is gold.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:31

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

JeffersonClay posted:

53% of independents think Russia definitely interfered and 66% think it's an important issue. 41% of republicans think it's an important issue FFS. I know y'all have trouble embracing a strategy that would even in some small way validate Hillary Clinton but you need to get over it, this poo poo is gold.

I'm not contesting that. I'm saying you need more meat than that. It's not a governing message.

To ape a certain politician, will impeaching Trump enact campaign finance reform? Will it stop the Republican stranglehold on state houses fueled by gerrymandering and voter suppression?

Fiction fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 24, 2017

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:31

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Paracaidas posted:

The waiver required, among other things, consistent training of CS staff on their legal and ethical obligations and forced them to submit to enhanced oversight to ensure that they were playing by the rules and not engaging in shady illegal schemes. Training, though generally useless, is critical in this waiver process- it denies the banks, executives, and employees any opportunity to escape prosecution by pointing to the "knowingly" portion of relevant statutes (their typical, and wildly effective, defense).

Meanwhile, I would think that the threat of Puzder at Labor would have made incredibly clear the dangers of Government dictating the management of Union funds.

enhanced oversight would make me feel better if this wasn't the same industry caught hiring prostitutes for the people charged with overseeing them. they should not have been managing pensions period. the magnitude of their crimes in recent memory was well beyond probationary poo poo like enhanced oversight.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:32

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Fiction posted:

The Republicans responded to Obama by driving further right because that was the message they got from town halls and primaries from their constituents who opposed them. It's natural that if you seek to fight Trump, you must also seek to have a set of defining issues you can battle them on that Trump is directly threatening. In 2006 we elected a whole bunch of House members but weren't focused on using those seats in a way that could push the party's vision forward, and we got the watered down ACA for it.

Do you have any idea what a big loving deal even getting the watered down ACA was? Like passing legislation of that scope really was a big loving deal dude.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:33

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Do you have any idea what a big loving deal even getting the watered down ACA was? Like passing legislation of that scope really was a big loving deal dude.

I'm well aware. I contend that it could have been even better with a more coherent ideological framework for the 50-state strategy.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:34

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Fiction posted:

Okay, and how you do that is by countering the attempted repeal of Obamacare with declaring that healthcare rights must be expanded further, you counter right-to-work by reaffirming your support for organized labor and a high minimum wage, etc. etc.

I can't fathom why you'd think I would oppose incremental movement left in conjunction with anti-trump messaging, but let me assure you I do not.

WampaLord posted:

That's not nearly enough. Obama didn't run on "Fix what W broke."

Yes, he did!

Fiction posted:

I'm not contesting that. I'm saying you need more meat than that. It's not a governing message.

To ape a certain politician, will impeaching Trump enact campaign finance reform? Will it stop the Republican stranglehold on state houses fueled by gerrymandering and voter suppression?

Yes, because we can weaponize it in the election in 18 months.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:36

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Fiction posted:

I'm well aware. I contend that it could have been even better with a more coherent ideological framework for the 50-state strategy.

And your contention is largely wrong.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:36

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

JeffersonClay posted:

Yes, he did!

No, he ran on Hope and Change you loving goddamned moron.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:37

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

And good lord yes, Obama ran on a big message of "Fix What Republicans Have Broken."

WampaLord posted:

No, he ran on Hope and Change you loving goddamned moron.

What do you think Hope and Change were directly about? Do you think Hope and Change was about enacting a far-left buffet of policies? Hope and Change was basically "look at how lovely things have gotten under the Bush Administration and Republican Governance."

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:37

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I mean the 2006 gains in the House and Senate were basically predicated on "Stop Bush."

I am not saying we shouldn't have a message of what we'd do with power, but I think y'all are understating how being the actual opposition party is a hell of a lot easier to organize around than being de jure party in power (even if we were only nominally in power then.)

I didn't say it wasn't easier to organize, but if we do what we did in 2006 again, we'll end up with another short stint in power followed by years of irrelevancy because we pissed it all away again.

It's not a coincidence that the greatest Presidential speeches in history make no mention of their opponents. People respond best when they hear what you're going to do for them in exchange for them voting you into office. Better jobs, better schools, improved infrastructure, more affordable health insurance--these are things that will sink into the consciousness of the voting populace. Give them a reason to vote for you.

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

And good lord yes, Obama ran on a big message of "Fix What Republicans Have Broken."

Funny, I have like a dozen rally signs from his campaign and none of them say "Fix What Republicans Have Broken". Obama ran on a positive message of change. I'm not going to argue about whether he was specific about it, but the fact is that he gave people a reason to show up on election day.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:38

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I mean the 2006 gains in the House and Senate were basically predicated on "Stop Bush."

Letting the GOP gently caress over the entire world for a period of six years as opposed to eight doesn't sound like the greatest of victories.

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Do you have any idea what a big loving deal even getting the watered down ACA was? Like passing legislation of that scope really was a big loving deal dude.

Neither do big loving deals that are going to be scrapped because the New Democrats are a bunch of incompetents.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:38

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

You very clearly don't know a whole lot about Chuck Schumer.

He's my senator, I know plenty about him. My point is that if Captain Neoliberal is doing everything he can to pretend to be progressive, that should be an indicator of where the party winds are blowing.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:38

Calibanibal: Aug 25, 2015

"Bush bad, this my fight song pokemon go to the polls" - Barack Hussein Obama

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:38

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

"vote for clinton"- Bernie Sanders

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:39

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

And good lord yes, Obama ran on a big message of "Fix What Republicans Have Broken."

What do you think Hope and Change were directly about? Do you think Hope and Change was about enacting a far-left buffet of policies? Hope and Change was basically "look at how lovely things have gotten under the Bush Administration and Republican Governance."

Hope and Change was not the "I am not Republican" message, it was a positive message of, well, hope and change.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:40

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Alter Ego posted:

I didn't say it wasn't easier to organize, but if we do what we did in 2006 again, we'll end up with another short stint in power followed by years of irrelevancy because we pissed it all away again.

It's not a coincidence that the greatest Presidential speeches in history make no mention of their opponents. People respond best when they hear what you're going to do for them in exchange for them voting you into office. Better jobs, better schools, improved infrastructure, more affordable health insurance--these are things that will sink into the consciousness of the voting populace. Give them a reason to vote for you.

Funny, I have like a dozen rally signs from his campaign and none of them say "Fix What Republicans Have Broken". Obama ran on a positive message of change. I'm not going to argue about whether he was specific about it, but the fact is that he gave people a reason to show up on election day.

I think you're misreading what I, at least, am specifically saying.

WampaLord posted:

Hope and Change was not the "I am not Republican" message, it was a positive message of, well, hope and change.

It was "we're different from Republicans."

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:40

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

WampaLord posted:

No, he ran on Hope and Change you loving goddamned moron.

Hope for a glorious civil bipartisan consensus and change from disasterous Bush policies. That's what he ran on, and it worked.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:41

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

JeffersonClay posted:

Hope for a glorious civil bipartisan consensus and change from disasterous Bush policies. That's what he ran on, and it worked.

So why are you arguing that he ran on "I'm not Bush"?

JeffersonClay posted:

53% of independents think Russia definitely interfered and 66% think it's an important issue. 41% of republicans think it's an important issue FFS. I know y'all have trouble embracing a strategy that would even in some small way validate Hillary Clinton but you need to get over it, this poo poo is gold.

Then let Congress investigate him for it. In the meantime, Democrats need to go back to the drawing board and craft a message that isn't "vote for me or the other guy wins".

The Russia thing isn't unimportant, but ask a single mother of 3 living in the inner city which issue she cares about more--the fact that she works two jobs and still can't make ends meet or the fact that Donald Trump may have colluded with Russia--and see which answer you get. Congressional Democrats should keep pushing the Russia angle in the press when asked about it, but when it comes time to go home and campaign, that CANNOT be their only talking point. They NEED a cohesive, positive message.

Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 24, 2017

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:41

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

JeffersonClay posted:

Yes, because we can weaponize it in the election in 18 months.

Weaponize it to enact what policies? You need both.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:42

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

JeffersonClay posted:

Hope for a glorious civil bipartisan consensus and change from disasterous Bush policies. That's what he ran on, and it worked.

Look, we can talk about Campaign Obama versus President Obama all day, but Campaign Obama loving won and won hard.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:43

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

I am still not sure who y'all think is saying we should advocate for policies that we believe make America better?

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:45

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

What is the voting schedule like for the DNC positions and such? The chair is tomorrow, officers are today, right?

Also looking at the list of delegates, it is absolutely loving shameful that there's four delegates from Wyoming, and only six from Wisconsin. Wisconsin has ten times the population and has (had

) a long history of progressive and labor union activism.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:46

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

SKULL.GIF posted:

What is the voting schedule like for the DNC positions and such? The chair is tomorrow, officers are today, right?

Also looking at the list of delegates, it is absolutely loving shameful that there's four delegates from Wyoming, and only six from Wisconsin. Wisconsin has ten times the population and has (had ) a long history of progressive and labor union activism.

Y'all are being punished for giving the country Scott Walker :colbert:

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:47

Calibanibal: Aug 25, 2015

"im going to dronestrike a wedding" said presidential candidate barack obama, cackling like a hellfiend

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:47

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Calibanibal posted:

"im going to dronestrike a wedding" said presidential candidate barack obama, cackling like a hellfiend

Go away.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:48

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

So the race for VA Governor this year should be interesting. You have incumbent Lt. Governor Ralph Northam going up against former Congressman Tom Perriello. A lot of people are trying to re-cast it as another re-fight of the Endless Primary but Perriello at least is trying really hard to push back against it.

As a Virginian I was definitely leaning Northam before, but after reading Perriello's interview here I'm now more undecided. I'm curious how this primary race ends up going. I think it also has good thoughts and ideas on how the party moves forward and what to do (re-fighting the Endless Primary not being one of them).

Again, for Democrats to take control of VA they only need to pick up 18 Delegates, 1 Senator and retain the Governor's Mansion. I'm hopeful that it'll happen.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/02/tom_perriello_wants_to_prove_that_the_party_s_best_bet_is_moving_left.html

Slate posted:

As a congressman, Virginia Democrat Tom Perriello made national waves for holding a series of town hall meetings with Tea Party critics and for supporting the strongest elements of the Obama agenda despite representing a deep red district. In January, he surprised the commonwealth by challenging the Democratic lieutenant governor, Ralph Northam, in the race for Virginia�s governorship, which is up for grabs this November as Terry McAuliffe steps down from his term-limited position.

Perriello�s entry into the race as a populist, running on the pledge to fight gerrymandering and work for Virginians who�ve been left behind by the 21st century economy, has met with a mixture of enthusiasm and worry among state Democrats. Despite the fact that almost every elected official in the state had already endorsed Northam, Perriello has managed to draw even in polls and appears to be setting the tone of the debate, with calls to make Virginia a firewall against Trump and for a policy agenda that includes free community college and criminal justice reform. The Virginia gubernatorial race draws together big themes of the 2016 presidential election about the place of populism, the value of primaries, and what the future of the Democratic Party looks like. It�s also threatening to devolve into battles about the future of progressivism, from identity politics to ideological purity tests, that turned off so many Democratic voters in the 2016 race.

I reached out to Perriello to get his thoughts on the lessons he learned from 2016, how progressives should think about �states� rights,� and the place of faith in Democratic politics. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Dahlia Lithwick: A lot of party leaders saw your entry into the race as late and disruptive. How do you respond to those who say this will re-create the problems of the 2016 Democratic presidential primary?

Tom Perriello: Trying to fit this primary into a frame of last year�s race is lazy. Unlike Hillary, neither Ralph nor I have had to overcome decades of gendered public attacks. Neither of us have shattered glass ceilings, run the State Department, or systematically elevated the role of women around the world. Unlike Bernie, neither Ralph nor I have inspired millions to join a grass-roots revolution against inequality and corruption.

Democrats should be more focused on producing the next generation of ideas than on clearing primary fields that might help produce them. We have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to change the political balance in Virginia, but only if our voters care enough to show up in November. I was inspired by the vast number of Virginians who showed up to the Women�s March and the protests at Dulles Airport. But I also was concerned that the majority of marchers didn�t know there was a governor�s race in 2017. My goal�my hope�is to build a campaign that connects the governor�s race to the movement we�ve seen rise in response to President Trump�s attacks on our core values. But Democrats should not assume anti-Trump advocates are sold on our party. We have to earn that support.
Get the best of Slate in your inbox.

I want to give you a chance to respond to critics from the left, including here at Slate, about your support of the Stupak Amendment, and your voting record on abortion and women�s reproductive health.

I have always been pro-choice and marched and organized to defend Roe v. Wade before and during my time in Congress. I voted for Planned Parenthood funding and was proud to vote for the Affordable Care Act, which prohibits insurance companies from discriminating against women and provides universal access to contraception. However, during the health care debate in marathon town hall meetings, I made a promise to my constituents that I would stick to the commitment previously made by the White House and vote for the Affordable Care Act if it excluded federal funding for abortion. I have expressed my deep regret for that vote and engaged actively after my tenure in Congress in fights against TRAP laws and other efforts to limit reproductive health access in Virginia and around the country. I have promised as governor to veto the onslaught of anti-choice legislation that passes our heavily gerrymandered legislature, including draconian restrictions on abortion providers in Virginia, efforts to restrict the availability of contraception, and moves to defund Planned Parenthood.

I know you have thought an awful lot about the role states may play in the coming years: You were at Dulles Airport the day after the president�s executive order on immigration went into effect. What do you think might happen at the state level, and what role will states� rights and federalism�not words that trip off the progressive tongue�play in the next four years?

As governor, I will use all legal executive authority to block federal abuses of power and fundamental rights. I don�t say this lightly. Growing up in Virginia, I know firsthand that the �states� rights doctrine� has often been used to block progress. Racists in my hometown of Charlottesville were at the forefront of Massive Resistance, shutting down public schools rather than allow the federal government to integrate. However, there are other examples throughout American history where states have been progressive leaders and used the 10th Amendment and every other tool at their disposal to stand up to unjust and inhumane federal policies. Jefferson and Madison used similar arguments to resist the Alien and Sedition Acts under President Adams.

As the great historian Eric Foner and others have noted, progressive governors in the 19th century heroically refused to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act. They barred the use of state jails, state judges, and state law enforcement officials in the rendition of fugitive slaves, and the Supreme Court upheld their actions, holding that the Constitution did not permit the national government to conscript states into the enforcement of federal law. Only 20 years ago, the Supreme Court reaffirmed that ruling in a decision joined by all of the court�s conservative justices. I believe the fierce moral urgency of the Trump moment requires that same resistance from deep within our American progressive tradition.

Do Democrats get too focused on the meta stories and forget to act locally and at a state level? If so, why is that? Is the Tea Party model of resistance a useful template for Democratic organizers?

Democrats must be able to resist and advance at the same time. We must be fearless in opposing President Trump�s policies of hate and attacks on our democratic institutions. But we must respond with equal intensity to his actions that risk the pensions and Medicare of our seniors. There is nothing meta about resisting Trump if you are an African American parent wondering what Jeff Sessions will do to civil rights or a second-generation immigrant wondering if your family will be torn apart.

States are increasingly the first line of both attack and defense for progressive causes, from reproductive rights to criminal justice reform to student debt. Some of the clearest victories thus far for the movement for black lives have been in local prosecutor races. Our race for governor will determine the political map of Virginia for a generation with enormous implications for justice and fairness. This is not just about three years from now, when I would be able to veto any of the radical redistricting maps that have paralyzed Virginia politics for a decade, but also about this year redefining the Virginia electorate that shows up for state elections.

The breadth, depth, and creativity of the resistance since November has been awe-inspiring. I am particularly proud of Indivisible�s rise because one of the authors of the Indivisible Guide, Leah Greenberg, was a member of my congressional staff and now serves as a policy adviser for my campaign. Social change is not a majoritarian enterprise as much as an intensity enterprise, but at this point I think we have both factors on our side.

As a veteran of the crushing town halls of the ACA era, what are your thoughts on the fact that so many Republicans in Congress are going home this week and not meeting with their constituents?

In Congress, I held more marathon town halls than any member during the contentious health care debate, with some lasting as long as six hours. Even when my constituents were angry, I showed up�because I worked for them. This week, I have spent time in Republican districts hearing directly from folks about how we can advance an inclusive Virginia. These town hall meetings aren�t scary. They give Virginians a chance to hold their leaders accountable, ask questions, and participate in their democracy. Right now, Republicans should have the courage to meet with their constituents.

If there is one lesson you take from the 2016 election, what is it? I have almost no patience for postmortems and finger pointing, but I am wondering what your vision of how to move forward from such a colossal defeat looks like.

The forces of economic and racial anxiety, if left unaddressed, are on a collision course in America. Internecine debates about which factor is stronger obscure the interconnection and thus acceleration of both. We also often miss the fact that economic anxiety is not limited to those below certain income levels.

Too often, Democrats defend the status quo, noting positive GDP and unemployment numbers instead of speaking to the underlying forces that threaten economic security. When we say our only problem is with messaging, we imply that voters are too dumb to realize how great we have been for them or would be for them. People are smarter than elites think. They already know that both parties were na�ve about the costs of globalization and can see that both parties are again failing to address the impact of new forces like economic consolidation, automation, and exclusion.

Many people I meet know that Trump is full of smoke and mirrors. They recognize that he is two decades behind, and that we are no longer losing our manufacturing to China, but rather to computers. But at least Trump showed up and acknowledged their pain. As Democrats, we need to show up. We need to tell the brutal economic truth that of these jobs aren�t coming back, and we need to offer a better solution than blaming minorities. We can do this.

One of the things you and I have talked about in the past is whether there is a role for faith and religion in Democratic politics. I know it�s an incredibly fraught proposition, but am I wrong in thinking that ceding all discussion of religion to the right has been kind of a disaster for progressives? Do you have an idea for how to think about this in ways that don�t cause more rifts on the left?

North Carolina provided a preview of Trump�s agenda, and Moral Mondays created a blueprint of how to respond. We take this seriously in Virginia because winning this governor�s race is the only way to prevent the entire onslaught of the Carolina crisis�the gutting of public education and voting rights, the bigotry of bathroom bills�from setting Virginia back a generation. The Rev. William Barber�s prophetic response, like Sister Simone Campbell�s �Nuns on the Bus� tour against the Ryan budget�s impact on the poor, pulled back the cobwebs of progressive faith leadership in calling our nation to its best self.

Some liberals dismiss faith as part of the problem. Pluralist faith leadership inspires us to find the best of the role of spirituality and universal moral values while limiting the frequency with which it is used to otherize and divide. In general, the progressive movement has a tendency to be all logos and no mythos, and it is true that American conservatives overcorrect in the other direction. But the art and culture we celebrate on the left draws heavily from the truth of mythos, and we are wrong to dismiss this space. It is part of why we tend to err towards policy depth over narrative. We see this too often as intellectually more sound, but only within a narrow framing of intellect. Policy and decisions should be based on evidence, but our values and our story come from a deeper place.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:49

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

This Perriello fellow seems like A Good Guy, and you should vote for him.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:51

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Fiction posted:

Weaponize it to enact what policies? You need both.

The 2016 democratic platform.

WampaLord posted:

Look, we can talk about Campaign Obama versus President Obama all day, but Campaign Obama loving won and won hard.

Campaign Obama was not some leftist firebrand he ran on reversing bush policies and bipartisan consensus solutions. "But he had some vague platitudes" is not evidence to the contrary.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:53

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Alter Ego posted:

This Perriello fellow seems like A Good Guy, and you should vote for him.

He's cool and I am jealous of having good people to vote for in 2018.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:53

Calibanibal: Aug 25, 2015

if Perez wins this Perriello guy will likely turn up dead in a ditch somewhere. how dare he bicker with his fellow democrats

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:54

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

JeffersonClay posted:

Campaign Obama was not some leftist firebrand he ran on reversing bush policies and bipartisan consensus solutions. "But he had some vague platitudes" is not evidence to the contrary.

He also had charisma and that extra "oomph" that gets people motivated and voting.

He made people BELIEVE that he was running as a firebrand, that's what matters.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:55

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

https://newrepublic.com/article/140847/case-tom-perez-makes-no-sense

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:57

Dr. Fishopolis: Aug 31, 2004; ROBOT

axeil posted:

So the race for VA Governor this year should be interesting. You have incumbent Lt. Governor Ralph Northam going up against former Congressman Tom Perriello. A lot of people are trying to re-cast it as another re-fight of the Endless Primary but Perriello at least is trying really hard to push back against it.

I wish he wouldn't. You don't get to say "this is nothing like the primary" when you're a progressive black sheep candidate primarying the DNC establishment from the left. Just go with it, man.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:58

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Calibanibal posted:

"im going to dronestrike a wedding" said presidential candidate barack obama, cackling like a hellfiend

Campaign Obama supported the use of drones and said he'd violate Pakistan's sovereignty to blow up terrorists so yeah, pretty much.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:58

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

mcmagic posted:

https://newrepublic.com/article/140847/case-tom-perez-makes-no-sense

That was posted yesterday and I generally agree, though again it was written by an Ellison supporter so add that into your framing.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:58

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Why do liberals desire 8 years of.Trump? Why do Democrats desire to be as irrelevant as the Greens?

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:59

nachos: Jun 27, 2004; Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

JeffersonClay posted:

Better than whatever gut feeling strategy you're advocating.

53% of independents think Russia definitely interfered and 66% think it's an important issue. 41% of republicans think it's an important issue FFS. I know y'all have trouble embracing a strategy that would even in some small way validate Hillary Clinton but you need to get over it, this poo poo is gold.

I get that it polls well but the Russia thing does not matter. Once it stops being daily news coverage those numbers are guaranteed to drop down. If it actually did matter then Trump wouldn't have been president. People were willing to overlook extremely obvious collusion because there is no direct, tangible consequence of our president being a Russian puppet. We can imagine all sorts of scenarios but ultimately everyone will come to their own conclusion about what that actually means. Most of the time it won't be as important as food, shelter, and money in your pocket.

On the other hand, heavy infrastructure spending and a promise to bring back jobs is something that has actual meaning to people. So does medicare for all, 15 bucks an hour, etc. The Democrats need to message around things that people can understand, not nebulous concepts like "our president is incompetent lol" or "our president is a traitor" and assuming all voters will arrive at the same conclusion.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 18:59

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# ? May 19, 2024 08:44

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nachos posted:

I get that it polls well but the Russia thing does not matter. Once it stops being daily news coverage those numbers are guaranteed to drop down. If it actually did matter then Trump wouldn't have been president. People were willing to overlook extremely obvious collusion because there is no direct, tangible consequence of our president being a Russian puppet. We can imagine all sorts of scenarios but ultimately everyone will come to their own conclusion about what that actually means. Most of the time it won't be as important as food, shelter, and money in your pocket.

On the other hand, heavy infrastructure spending and a promise to bring back jobs is something that has actual meaning to people. So does medicare for all, 15 bucks an hour, etc. The Democrats need to message around things that people can understand, not nebulous concepts like "our president is incompetent lol" or "our president is a traitor" and assuming all voters will arrive at the same conclusion.

Medicare for All was a bad policy and we need to stop saying it's something we should advocate for.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 19:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Democratic National Chairperson election 2017

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