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Panama Red posted:What do people think of Clive Lewis? Beloved by the Remain crowd, but was on good terms with Corbyn Personality-wise he seems OK. A reasonable speaker. However as usual all of that pales into insignificance compared to what his policies would be. My main concern about Lewis is who among the PLP would support him? It's unlikely the Corbyn allies would since he resigned from the shadow cabinet, and they certainly wouldn't if he launched a challenge. That leaves the Blairites and the so-called 'soft left', who might be perfectly willing to lend him support if it meant getting rid of Corbyn. But Lewis is almost certainly too left-wing for most of them, so the long game would be simply to install him, undermine him, force him out, and replace him with a Liz Kendall equivalent. Talking about a successor to Corbyn is extremely difficult right now because the rules still exist preventing the actual left from fielding a candidate. Any challenger at the moment, no matter how good they sound, would need to be supported by Corbyn opponents. And the only reason they would do that is if they thought it would lead to locking the left back out of power.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:38
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...y-a3474846.htmlquote:Parents should put aside a quarter of their children's pocket money and gifts from birth to enable them to buy a house, a study claims.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:44
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lol gently caress london
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Feb 24, 2017 20:53
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Panama Red posted:What do people think of Clive Lewis? Beloved by the Remain crowd, but was on good terms with Corbyn He seems to have (good) principles and stick to them without being arbitrarily bolshy. But he's not been an MP super long so it's hard to compare him to Corbyn whose main appeal for me is that he's got a long and pretty consistent record. Fangz posted:I can believe you when you say that, because my impression is that Corbyn hasn't been shouty over a single thing for ages. I mean there was that clip posted a few days ago of him stopping just short of yelling at May in parliament about the NHS.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:06
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Panama Red posted:What do people think of Clive Lewis? Beloved by the Remain crowd, but was on good terms with Corbyn Random thing I discovered about him recently is that he was sacked from the BBC for poor performance as political correspondent. Apparently concerns about his lack of knowledge for the role reached the point where he was given a test about politics which he bombed out on. When he was dismissed, he said it was due to racism, but following a robust response from his old manager, semi-retracted this. Seems like a nice enough bloke the couple of times I've met him and favours alliances with other left wing parties which might become a necessity in future. Edit: Thanks whoever posted this link: https://medium.com/@theobertram/the-copeland-test-labours-core-vote-ddac4fb8ee#.vf8zx0bqh quote:Since September 2015, Labour has gone from 5 points ahead to 15 points behind the Tories among C2DEs. It's worth reading the article to see the two graphs, but this is quite striking I think. Working class support lost in the first two months - before any of Corbyn's bad leadership had the chance to be demonstrated, or the coups to begin, or the Brexit shenanigans to rear its head. A clear indication of the media demonisation that kicked off on day 1 perhaps? I seem to remember even Pissflaps saying a few days ago that he had an open mind about Corbyn's performance in the early weeks, which probably indicates that there had been no major fuckups at the time. Prince John fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 21:14
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Please tell me that the test is available somewhere. Or that it's a GCSE level Politics exam or something.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:18
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It's a BBC multiple choice test, so the answers are all down the middle.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:23
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Guavanaut posted:It's a BBC multiple choice test, so the answers are all down the middle. I was gonna say I kind of wonder what a BBC politics exam would look like and whether or not failing it would be a good thing.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:29
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Prince John posted:Random thing I discovered about him recently is that he was sacked from the BBC for poor performance as political correspondent. Apparently concerns about his lack of knowledge for the role reached the point where he was given a test about politics which he bombed out on. When he was dismissed, he said it was due to racism, but following a robust response from his old manager, semi-retracted this. It's worth remember the attacks started before day 1. Also that Jamie Reed is the MP who publicly and loudly resigned from the shadow cabinet during Corbyn's first victory announcement. But does anyone seem to think Jamie Reed's militant opposition to Corbyn hurt Labour's chances in Copeland after he resigned? Not a peep.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:29
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Fangz posted:Sorry, I read Feet of Clay too long ago, I don't remember who the Gollum character is in it. Golem. He's a Golem. Gollum is a character from the Hobbit.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:30
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Lord of the Llamas posted:It's worth remember the attacks started before day 1. Also that Jamie Reed is the MP who publicly and loudly resigned from the shadow cabinet during Corbyn's first victory announcement. But does anyone seem to think Jamie Reed's militant opposition to Corbyn hurt Labour's chances in Copeland after he resigned? Not a peep. Before, I would say, given that Chuka Umunna spit his dummy out before Corbyn even finished the election.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:31
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namesake posted:Please tell me that the test is available somewhere. Heh, for some reason I wasn't able to find this before, but if you trust the Daily Mail as a source then apparently: quote:‘I did remove him as a political correspondent because he didn’t know enough about politics to do that job. The 2010 General Election was coming up and I called him in and said “You aren’t firing on all cylinders, you have got to know your stuff.” With his consent I set him a simple quiz, three basic questions. He got all three wrong.’ He was BBC East's political correspondent, so not being able to name the local MP would be rather amusing if true.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:31
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...y-a3474846.html That's stupid bullshit. First, it assumes "pocket money" is a thing. If your parents give you money as a kid, you're already pretty well off, so congratulations. Second, it says "afford a deposit". Being able to afford a deposit is a long way from actually buying a property.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:41
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Collateral posted:He is also too aggressive. Far to left wing and yet not left wing enough. A policeman?
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Feb 24, 2017 21:41
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Lord of the Llamas posted:It's worth remember the attacks started before day 1. Also that Jamie Reed is the MP who publicly and loudly resigned from the shadow cabinet during Corbyn's first victory announcement. But does anyone seem to think Jamie Reed's militant opposition to Corbyn hurt Labour's chances in Copeland after he resigned? Not a peep. Are you saying Jamie Reed was so popular he convinced Labour voters locally that Corbyn bad and to stop voting Labour?
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Feb 24, 2017 21:43
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Paul.Power posted:A policeman? Truly an awful fate.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:43
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JFairfax posted:lol gently caress london christ, I'm due to move in with my girlfriend at some point this year and we're going to have stay in London for at least two years until her eldest has finished his GSCEs and we're both already terrified about how we're going to cover the rent
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Feb 24, 2017 21:50
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Who would of thought the parliamentary Labour party, full of southern, well off, middle class, professional politicians (and led by a southern, well off, middle class, professional politician) isn't very appealing to working class northern voters. In places like Stoke and Whitehaven the Labour party are the political establishment and what do the people have to show for it? Constant decline for decades and seemingly no interest from the Labour party. Why not vote for UKIP or the Conservatives, at least they are not taking their votes for granted. Until the Labour party can come up with something other than "The Conservatives are bad mmmmkay" they will keep loosing support in previously safe seats. All we are getting from Labour are seemingly half-arsed mumbling instead of actual policies that can appeal to people. Come up with an actual strategy that look like it might have a chance to revitalise the north instead of of telling them they are bad for blaming immigrants for the complete lack of jobs. Actually loving lead. If you can't lead a parliamentary party how can you be expected to lead a country. Talk about how this new policy may mean less money in your pocket but it will cut waiting times in A&E make sure your Nan gets looked after. Actually come up with good ideas. Most of the media wants things to talk about and if you are not delivering on actual policies that sound like they might work they will give air time to the other lot or to the unnamed sources who are tying to destabilize you. What is the Labour policy on social justice? education reform? financial regulation? taxes? defense? The voters certainly don't. Thanks to the Blair/Brown cratering* of the economy these will have to be a bit more than just wishful thinking of "we will pay for it by mumble mumble mumble" but a seemingly well thought out plan that seems like a viable alternative will gain traction and votes. Just saying we are not as bad as that lot isn't going to work when you are less trusted. *polices of Blair/Brown made the recession much much worse than it could of been. A tighter rein on the banks would of lessened the impact and meant RBS could actually be a viable business at the moment and Northern Rock wouldn't of imploded.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:54
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...y-a3474846.html
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Feb 24, 2017 21:55
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:christ, I'm due to move in with my girlfriend at some point this year and we're going to have stay in London for at least two years until her eldest has finished his GSCEs and we're both already terrified about how we're going to cover the rent Yeah, for three people you're gonna end up spending at least £1500 if you want to be near a Zone 1/2 tube station. "Living wage" is a joke by the way, I have no idea how anyone not in tech/fin survives.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:57
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Pochoclo posted:First, it assumes "pocket money" is a thing. If your parents give you money as a kid, you're already pretty well off, so congratulations. If you're getting pocket money at the rate the article assumes (a few grand a year?) so that 1/4 of it would make your deposit then yeah, but getting a token amount of pocket money is hardly a mark of being one of the petit-bourgoise.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:57
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Pochoclo posted:That's stupid bullshit. First, it assumes "pocket money" is a thing. If your parents give you money as a kid, you're already pretty well off, so congratulations. Second, it says "afford a deposit". Being able to afford a deposit is a long way from actually buying a property.  namesake posted:Truly an awful fate. The alt-right would have a field day about who makes them though.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:00
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ookiimarukochan posted:If you're getting pocket money at the rate the article assumes (a few grand a year?) so that 1/4 of it would make your deposit then yeah, but getting a token amount of pocket money is hardly a mark of being one of the petit-bourgoise. I come from a very poor background so pocket money seems loving insane to me as a concept, but I will concede that a pound or two a week might be reasonable for average families.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:01
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jBrereton posted:Aye a couple of quid a week from pocket money will make up a massive grand or so to slap down a deposit on a london home. Supposedly this is based on the average child receiving £131,832.94 over 25 years, or £5273.32 a year. That (according to HSBC) includes earning an average of £14,457.12 by age 25. Given that the median household income for two adults is £23,556 it has to be total bollocks.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:05
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Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:Supposedly this is based on the average child receiving £131,832.94 over 25 years, or £5273.32 a year. That (according to HSBC) includes earning an average of £14,457.12 by age 25. Given that the median household income for two adults is £23,556 it has to be total bollocks. Haha what the gently caress, what the gently caress is a 4 year old going to do with £400 a month? Buy drugs in recess?
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Feb 24, 2017 22:07
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Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:Supposedly this is based on the average child receiving £131,832.94 over 25 years, or £5273.32 a year. That (according to HSBC) includes earning an average of £14,457.12 by age 25. Given that the median household income for two adults is £23,556 it has to be total bollocks. That's £100 a week. I didn't get anything until I was maybe 8? And even then, it was a fiver a week, if id done my chores, which went up to a tenner a week once I was in high school. Which all stopped as soon as I got my first job and did not kick back in after being out of work, but unable to claim job seekers since I was at uni.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:07
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Pochoclo posted:Haha what the gently caress, what the gently caress is a 4 year old going to do with £400 a month? Buy drugs in recess? Speaking personally, I think at that age I would have bought my own weight in skittles.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:09
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I'm on roughly average wage and no kids, and I don't have £100 a week to spend on fun now.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:13
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Sadly my weight has not increased proportionally with my discretionary income and I think I would find it quite difficult to buy my own weight in skittles nowadays.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:14
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ronya posted:yes, but - this is what the median voter wants to know - are you really going to do that*, or are you going to tax us more and then give it away to layabouts whilst pleading for the human rights of homegrown terrorists Is this a thing you think happens?
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Feb 24, 2017 22:15
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Pochoclo posted:Haha what the gently caress, what the gently caress is a 4 year old going to do with £400 a month? Buy drugs in recess? To be fair, if you take their bullshit £14,457.12 earnings off from 18-25 the actual pocket money phase (say 4-17) would only be about £2500 a year, or a little over £200 a month, but that's still crazy as an average.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:15
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According to their website, the cheapest skittles packet (per unit weight) sold by Sainsbury's costs £0.57/100g. Assuming a bodyweight of 70 kg for a man, that'd be around £400 for your weight in skittles, which ought to be reasonably affordable for someone on a professional salary.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:18
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Reading that article actually really worries me, as we're getting our mortgage from HSBC and their head is spouting complete rubbish. Also, they suggest you get something like £3600-5000 a year pocket money. So nearly a hundred quid a week in pocket money? Absurd. And they seem to assume that patents give pocket money to their kids no matter how young, even as babies? Oh, and we'll include handouts when they're adults too. I bet it's a double dip as well- need a couple of grand from your parents because you can't afford your rent and food? Foolish pleb, if only you had chosen to save that money instead. But no, you crawled out of your crib and spent your weekly £80 instead of investing it.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:19
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It does say pocket money and gifts, so that could include a lot of things that aren't pocket money, from Christmas and birthday gifts to presents given at birth itself. For lower income families, a lot of those things for the first few years are actually things that the parents need to look after the child, and grandma or an aunt or uncle might chip in. For the others, they're basically suggesting that you get your child a payment on a deposit for their 12th birthday instead of a new coat and a record*, purely to sacrifice at the altar of our ridiculous bloated property god. *Or whatever way you buy kids music now? Amazon gift card?  advice?
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Feb 24, 2017 22:19
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LemonDrizzle posted:According to their website, the cheapest skittles packet (per unit weight) sold by Sainsbury's costs £0.57/100g. Assuming a bodyweight of 70 kg for a man, that'd be around £400 for your weight in skittles, which ought to be reasonably affordable for someone on a professional salary. Hahah, that's a very charitable estimation of my weight  Also I don't have like, £700.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:26
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Guavanaut posted:A clay golem policeman might be the only thing that could ever seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing. I doubt that particular attribute would win them any friends anywhere. So from another angle they'd probably be a powerful force for ensuring the law moves at a similar pace to social attitudes.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:27
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Foxtrot_13 posted:*polices of Blair/Brown made the recession much much worse than it could of been. A tighter rein on the banks would of lessened the impact and meant RBS could actually be a viable business at the moment and Northern Rock wouldn't of imploded. "Much worse than it could have been" compared to..? The financial crash didn't exactly cover the world in glory and we came out relatively okay. What we didn't do was recover for it because people thought Brown selling off the gold somehow cratered the american mortgage market, because economics is hard and moral panics are easy if they serve vested interests. mehall posted:That's £100 a week. I was doing really loving well if I got £25 from a week of chores and I think that happened, like, twice. £5-10 a week maybe, and the only time I can think of that I went in excess of £100 or so for a christmas/birthday present was the time we got a gamecube. So I guess that totals up to about £650 a year? Namtab posted:Is this a thing you think happens? Regardless of whether Ronya thinks it happens it's demonstrably a thing a disturbingly large subset of the UK population believes happens.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:31
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namesake posted:I doubt that particular attribute would win them any friends anywhere. Also giant clay constables walking through the walls of rich kid parties and arresting them all for coke would be a quick way to get drug laws changed.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:32
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kustomkarkommando posted:Are you saying Jamie Reed was so popular he convinced Labour voters locally that Corbyn bad and to stop voting Labour? No, but it only needs to affect a few people to make a difference. It's hard to see how big an effect the anti-Corbyn defections really had. If you only read the anecdotes in the papers you would guess Labour got 0% in the by-election because everyone hates Corbyn. But the fact is that the Tory gain in vote share was less than the UKIP decline in vote share. I would guess a lot of self described "lifelong Labour voters" were actually 2010 Labour 2015 UKIP 2017 Conservative voters. But we can continue to blame it all on Corbyn I guess.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:35
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Lord of the Llamas posted:No, but it only needs to affect a few people to make a difference. It's Corbyn's fault that that decline - largely through labour's time in government, and entirely expected - wasn't reversed.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:41
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