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HEY GAIL posted:yesterday i learned that clement of alexandria thought that jesus did not have automatic bodily functions My favorite of the miracles attributed to Pope Pius X happened while he was still alive. He had already been reputed for bringing about the healing of those he prayed for, so his secretary stole his socks and gave them to his sister, who had a malformed foot. (I think sister - sibling, anyway.) Her foot immediately corrected itself when she put the stolen sock on, which terrified the secretary, so he raced back to the Pope and admitted what he had done. The Pope's response was to laugh and say, "I wish my socks would do that for my arthritis."  ...uh, my other fav liturgifact, as long-time readers of the thread will know, is that if a spider falls into the chalice after consecration (i.e. when the chalice contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus), the priest's two options are to fish it out and burn it, or consume it. In both cases it's the physicality of it - to Catholics, we aren't souls trapped in meat, we're people with bodies and souls, both of which must be involved in our religious practices. Socks, spiders, holy water, sitting and standing and kneeling, going to actual buildings with altars that have been anointed with oil, not just any-old-place-anywhere, that kind of thing.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:05
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Is that rule restricted specifically to spiders, or does it apply to all small animals?
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Feb 24, 2017 23:13
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zonohedron posted:In both cases it's the physicality of it - to Catholics, we aren't souls trapped in meat, we're people with bodies and souls, both of which must be involved in our religious practices.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:16
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zonohedron posted:...uh, my other fav liturgifact, as long-time readers of the thread will know, is that if a spider falls into the chalice after consecration (i.e. when the chalice contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus), the priest's two options are to fish it out and burn it, or consume it. My complete ignorance of how Communion works would lead me to believe that if the priest does not do one of those two things the spider will gain the power to heal the sick and become immortal. And possibly start its own religion. And that's why you have to do that.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:41
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Samuel Clemens posted:Is that rule restricted specifically to spiders, or does it apply to all small animals?
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Feb 24, 2017 23:50
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Samuel Clemens posted:Is that rule restricted specifically to spiders, or does it apply to all small animals? I think it's bugs/insects/arachnids. I know it's not true for mice, so I assume not for rodents. OwlFancier posted:My complete ignorance of how Communion works would lead me to believe that if the priest does not do one of those two things the spider will gain the power to heal the sick and become immortal. And possibly start its own religion. And that's why you have to do that. I think the concern is that if you scoop it out and let it run away it will spill droplets of Jesus everywhere and it'll be impossible to find them all. Catholics are kind of weird about remnants of communion, from a non-Catholic viewpoint; Lutherans might pour consecrated wine down the drain, but Catholics not only don't do that, after all the wine is consumed holy water is poured into the chalice and then that is consumed too. So unless the priest (or someone) were to scoop the spider out, something would have to be done with it.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:53
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zonohedron posted:...uh, my other fav liturgifact, as long-time readers of the thread will know, is that if a spider falls into the chalice after consecration (i.e. when the chalice contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus), the priest's two options are to fish it out and burn it, or consume it. Poor spider I mean, assuming the priest somehow spilled the wine on some other living thing, would he have to burn and/or consume that too? What if it's a person?
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Feb 24, 2017 23:59
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HEY GAIL posted:i know you mean well, but the only other times i have heard that line of thinking from catholics, it's been used to argue against feminism and against lgbt rights, so it still makes my stomach flip over when someone introduces it It's a fair thing to be worried about, but there is always tension. Embodied spirituality does not have to equal biological determinism.
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Feb 25, 2017 01:48
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On that note, I'm constantly frustrated by a friend who is vociferously pro-LGBTQ but recoils at any mention of anal sex stating, "that's only an exit!"
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Feb 25, 2017 01:50
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WerrWaaa posted:On that note, I'm constantly frustrated by a friend who is vociferously pro-LGBTQ but recoils at any mention of anal sex stating, "that's only an exit!" this always confuses me if that's how you feel then... just don't have anal sex?? not all gay men are even into anal
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Feb 25, 2017 01:56
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nvm not funny
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Feb 25, 2017 01:57
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HEY GAIL posted:i know you mean well, but the only other times i have heard that line of thinking from catholics, it's been used to argue against feminism and against lgbt rights, so it still makes my stomach flip over when someone introduces it But if you deny the sacredness of the body, you risk permitting sins against the body. It's a gateway to the Torquemada mentality of punishing the body, to save the soul. If you want to be be pro-queer,you have to allow allow a theology of non-heterosexual physical love. I don't have a clear answer to this, because I'm a straight man, but I don't think you can take the easy option of discounting eros in a theology of agape. Queer people exist, and we can't ignore them when we try to work out a Christian understanding of sex. On another subject: what does thread think about wearing ashes to work on Ash Wednesday?
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Feb 25, 2017 03:20
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as long as you're not like "oh? this? it's Ash Wednesday aren't i holy" or whatever it's cool
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Feb 25, 2017 03:35
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I need to remember to go to Saturday mass because I work 9-5 sundays now.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:08
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Re: Ash Wednesday,
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Feb 25, 2017 06:12
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... Does that make more sense in context? 
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Feb 25, 2017 07:34
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if you've gone to an ash wednesday service where they put ash on your forehead it's hilarious
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Feb 25, 2017 07:37
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Load Toner
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Feb 25, 2017 09:07
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Mr Enderby posted:If you want to be be pro-queer,you have to allow allow a theology of non-heterosexual physical love. I don't have a clear answer to this, because I'm a straight man, but I don't think you can take the easy option of discounting eros in a theology of agape. Queer people exist, and we can't ignore them when we try to work out a Christian understanding of sex. Well, well put. I also have no clear answers, but I'm increasingly suspicious of the assumption that eros between two people of the same sex or gender disqualifies the spiritual intimacy and commitment that St. Paul exhorts in the last half of 1 Corinthians 6. I'm also inclined to believe that it is urged by Jesus to proclaim the good news of the body and of sex to all neighbors with all due dignity and humility.
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Feb 25, 2017 09:40
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System Metternich posted:Re: Ash Wednesday, do Europeans do the ash cross on the forehead thing? Wikipedia tells me that's mostly an Anglophone practice. I've been to Ash Wednesdays in Episcopalian, Methodist, and Lutheran churches and it's pretty much the same deal, the priest drew a cross with ashes on your forehead we were supposed to save the palm fronds from Palm Sunday and then those would be burnt for Ash Wednesday ashes
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Feb 25, 2017 09:54
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At least my parish has done the forehead variant for as long as I can remember. A German liturgy handbook from 1897 says that the ashes go on the hairs though, so maybe it was changed as well after the Council? I'll ask my grandma and get back to you 
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Feb 25, 2017 10:02
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In mine it changed from the forehead cross to just putting ashes on top of one's head several years ago.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:01
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Felt you'd appreciate these from the L.A. Archdiocese Religious Education Congress taking place this weekend:      Phoneposting, so let me know if I screwed something up.
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Feb 25, 2017 23:31
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Those are amazingly cool.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:35
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Mr Enderby posted:But if you deny the sacredness of the body, you risk permitting sins against the body. It's a gateway to the Torquemada mentality of punishing the body, to save the soul. Caufman posted:Well, well put. I also have no clear answers, but I'm increasingly suspicious of the assumption that eros between two people of the same sex or gender disqualifies the spiritual intimacy and commitment that St. Paul exhorts in the last half of 1 Corinthians 6. I'm also inclined to believe that it is urged by Jesus to proclaim the good news of the body and of sex to all neighbors with all due dignity and humility. and as far as what a theology of non heterosexual eros would look like, if you're Orthodox Sergius and Bacchus are a good model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_and_Bacchus they exemplify selflessness, sacrifice for others, loyalty, bravery, these are all virtues we should imitate. I'm not sure if their virtues were different from those of a hypothetical Sergia and Bacchus, though, which would be an interesting question for a thought experment. The Orthodox monks whose bodies were female wouldn't be included, since they didn't have sex, but Marina the Monk took care of a child who wasn't really theirs, demonstrating agape and storge if not eros, and the willingness to look bad in public for someone else's sake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_the_Monk HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 00:48
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Pellisworth posted:this always confuses me like kant, but the opposite of that, and for fuckin'
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Feb 26, 2017 00:55
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I tried going to confession today, for the first time in over a decade. The process felt rather like I was dropping off dry cleaning; I have 4 shirts, 3 thefts and a pair of pants, please be careful with those. No problem sir, all will be returned clean and don't worry about anything. No interest in the state of the soul, or questions about the nature of particular acts. All in all, utterly undignified, and I walked out without being absolved. I'm not sure what to make of all this - based on your experience, was that pretty much how it typically goes? Honestly it has me questioning my relationship to the church entire.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:08
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I tried going to confession today, for the first time in over a decade. The process felt rather like I was dropping off dry cleaning; I have 4 shirts, 3 thefts and a pair of pants, please be careful with those. No problem sir, all will be returned clean and don't worry about anything. No interest in the state of the soul, or questions about the nature of particular acts. All in all, utterly undignified, and I walked out without being absolved. First of all, I am so sorry that you had that kind of experience with something so important. When you say you left without an absolution, do you mean you were so offended that you left before the absolution, or was the priest a fuckhead? When I was in college, the chaplain was my confessor. We always went face to face, he would sometimes ask about things he knew were happening in my life, he would challenge me in the confessional when I needed it, and one time, when I almost had to drop out of school because I was very sick and not yet diagnosed, he offered me in the confessional an act of mercy that left me bawling. Also, he always opened with a passage from scripture and every penance had something to do with what I was struggling with. There are too many priests that treat the confessional as a Department of Motor Vehicles of forgiveness. But there are good ones. Mine was so good I almost drove the 160+ miles to his new assignment just for him to hear my confession again.
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Feb 26, 2017 01:39
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I tried going to confession today, for the first time in over a decade. The process felt rather like I was dropping off dry cleaning; I have 4 shirts, 3 thefts and a pair of pants, please be careful with those. No problem sir, all will be returned clean and don't worry about anything. No interest in the state of the soul, or questions about the nature of particular acts. All in all, utterly undignified, and I walked out without being absolved. Are you sure you walked out without being absolved? How does one know if one has been absolved or not?
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Feb 26, 2017 01:53
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CountFosco posted:Are you sure you walked out without being absolved? How does one know if one has been absolved or not? generally when the priest says you are he's acting in persona christi so then
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Feb 26, 2017 01:59
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Thirteen Orphans posted:First of all, I am so sorry that you had that kind of experience with something so important. When you say you left without an absolution, do you mean you were so offended that you left before the absolution, or was the priest a fuckhead? Thank you, sincerely. Any advice on how one might find a confessor better equipped? At the moment, I'm really quite far from home, in the middle of nowhere; not sure there are any alternatives at present, but for the future. I walked out without the priest reciting the absolution. After being told that a conflict I have is quite immaterial - I was wrong even to think that way - and subsequently his wanting to go step by step through sins against the ten commandments, I decided that it was a mistake. I told him that I preferred not to be absolved, thanked him for his time, and walked out. Honestly, whatever the god I met there was, the god of "just check all the appropriate boxes and it will unconditionally be fine," is not a divinity I can respect. Whatever did become of the agony and the ecstasy?
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Feb 26, 2017 02:17
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I misunderstood; I misread it as, "I walked out without being absolved" (because the confession/absolution was poor). I should have read it more literally.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:02
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Immaculate Darita Feb 26, 2017 Shaquin posted: instead of "The Laughing Man" we have "Retard Dare" and he is a menace to the cyberstream i love u tho and want to get married pls take me on date u r most beautiful girl i ever seen srsly LOL uh oh i guess im hosed http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/sho....php?p=18727172 # ? Feb 26, 2017 05:07 Profile Post History Rap Sheet Edit Quote Immaculate Darita Feb 26, 2017 Go Back TribalWar Forums > TribalWar Community > General Discussion Reload this Page Harlequin Romance Novels Is Obscene Pornography 100% Absolutely Every Time . Welcome, spockhammer. | Log Out You last visited: 02-25-2017 at 03:20 PM Private Messages: Unread 0, Total 267. Thread Tools spockhammer VeteranX Contributor Old 1 - 02-25-2017, 11:44 PM Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message She had never felt so helpless or s completely at the mercy of another human being.. a being who could snap the slender column of her body with one squeeze of a steel clad arm. No Trace of tenderness softened the harsh pressure of his mouth on hers... there was only a savagely punishing intentess of purpose that cut off the breath until her sense reeled and her body sagged against the granite hardness of his, he released her wrists, seeming to know that they would hang helplessly at her sides, and his hand moved to the small of her back to exert a pressure that crushed her soft outlines to the unyielding dominance of his and left her in no doubt as the force his masculinity. The books uphold the values of their readers who share this fear of break-ing social codes, but behind these reassur-ingly familiar restraints they celebrate a wild, eager sexuality which flourish and is finally affirmed in "marriage," which Parisi sees as mainly a code word for "gently caress." And this is how Harlequin Romance Novels castigate women into The Patriarchy Matrix. Life In The Patriarchal Matrix GGz give me my PHD now. # ? Feb 26, 2017 05:07 Profile Post History Rap Sheet Edit Quote Immaculate Darita Feb 26, 2017 https://lifeinthepatriarchalmatrix.wordpress.com/
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Feb 26, 2017 06:11
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i'm from cleveland and hell, same
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Feb 26, 2017 06:12
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Numerical Anxiety posted:Thank you, sincerely. Any advice on how one might find a confessor better equipped? At the moment, I'm really quite far from home, in the middle of nowhere; not sure there are any alternatives at present, but for the future. I think what really did it was that not only was Fr. a good confessor, we had a good relationship. I was lucky, I lived on campus and was heavily involved in the campus ministry so I got to interact with him a lot, and that definitely colored and shaped our experience in the confessional. I guess the best advice I have is try and build a rapport with a priest, but that can be tough in a parish setting. Numerical Anxiety posted:I walked out without the priest reciting the absolution. After being told that a conflict I have is quite immaterial - I was wrong even to think that way - and subsequently his wanting to go step by step through sins against the ten commandments, I decided that it was a mistake. I told him that I preferred not to be absolved, thanked him for his time, and walked out. Honestly, whatever the god I met there was, the god of "just check all the appropriate boxes and it will unconditionally be fine," is not a divinity I can respect. Whatever did become of the agony and the ecstasy? I can completely understand your reaction. You deserve better.
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Feb 26, 2017 07:33
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I'd very much like to hear any personal stories of people having experienced acts of mercy. It might be because of a language-barrier, so maybe Tias can correct me on how accurate it is to translate "mercy" with the Danish word "nåde", but I feel that, mercy is a concept that I am presented with the challenge of in relative abstract situations; such as news stories. I am fortunate in this regard, that I have only experienced a few instances of having needed to forgive someone, or have had the need to be forgiven by someone, in such a full and directly personal way, that I would be hesitant to describe any acts of personal forgiveness that I've witnessed as acts of mercy, rather than as act of kindness or wisdom. Again, I could misunderstand the term, but to me, mercy, or at least "nåde", is distinct from simply forgiveness or kindness, in that an act of mercy also requires the person forgiving someone, being in a position of power where there is real alternative to showing mercy; as in, you can pity someone, forgive them, show them kindness, but you can't show mercy to someone who isn't to some extent, meaningfully dependant on your mercy, emotionally or in practical matters. Mercy is relatively easy to recognize the importance of, and not too hard to argue for in abstract situations such as when presented with horrible news stories, or other horrible acts that are removed from ourselves and our loved ones by some degree of separation, but when it comes to actual harm towards ourselves and the people we love; true forgiveness is incredibly hard, and I feel, rare, as well, which makes me genuinely curious as to what kind of personal stories people might have where they've experienced acts of mercy.
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Feb 26, 2017 17:19
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Nåde is as good as it gets. In Denmark, the word implies both the meanings of 'mercy' and 'pardon', where mercy just means, well, mercy. For instance, a governors pardon would be called 'benådning' (using nåde).
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Feb 26, 2017 19:55
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I generally find that keeping an awareness of the futility of retribution helps. Looking to prevent harm rather than make yourself feel viscerally better doesn't take too much effort to keep in mind. "Don't be sorry, just don't do it again." I find sums up my feelings on the issue of guilt and forgiveness.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:05
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System Metternich posted:At least my parish has done the forehead variant for as long as I can remember. A German liturgy handbook from 1897 says that the ashes go on the hairs though, so maybe it was changed as well after the Council? I'll ask my grandma and get back to you So yeah, I finally remembered to ask my grandma and she said that it used to be that the ashes were sprinkled on the head and that it was changed only relatively recently, although she couldn't say when exactly. Probably sometime during the last 30 years or so Also, have some more pictures of that  Indian procession:   
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Feb 26, 2017 20:48
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I was wondering what you all think about this: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article135003349.html I can't really comment too much since I have never belonged to a denomination that celebrates Ash Wednesday, and have not been in an Ash Wednesday service almost 2 decades. That was when I was in Catholic School, but I was raised protestant. It does feel a bit odd to me to have glitter even though I completely support why they are using/offering it.
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