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Anyone do much timber framing? I am thinking a nice little timber framed pavilion with a basic outdoor kitchen would be a nice addition to the family place. Anyone have any book recommendations?
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Feb 23, 2017 04:47
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Atticus_1354 posted:Anyone do much timber framing? I am thinking a nice little timber framed pavilion with a basic outdoor kitchen would be a nice addition to the family place. Anyone have any book recommendations? This is about the best book for being modern and simple. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1612126685/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_0r2RybZ49X9AP This is the best of the far more in depth books https://www.amazon.com/dp/188926900X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_Zs2RybARZE4JT Also check out some of the forums/websites http://forums.tfguild.net/ http://www.tfguild.org/ http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/board,11.0.html http://timberframehq.com/ Absolutely nothing beats taking a class, though. A pavilion is pretty low-stakes, but the money spent on a class will probably pay itself back on not making a mistake on a $80-$200 beam. One of my local community colleges has a class (which was a shock), and there are reasonably inexpensive 1-3 day classes all over the US.
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Feb 23, 2017 23:44
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Thanks for the recommendations. I will start looking for a class too. But books are always a good way to get a feel for if it is a project I actually want to take on and what I would need. I can definitely see a small timber frame cabin being a far off plan too.
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Feb 23, 2017 23:57
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Is $500 for a good condition 3 wheel Inca 20" too much? According to craigslist people in my area seem to think that $400 to $500 is the price for a 14" delta, I don't know if they actually sell for that much though.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:05
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Tres Burritos posted:Is $500 for a good condition 3 wheel Inca 20" too much? According to craigslist people in my area seem to think that $400 to $500 is the price for a 14" delta, I don't know if they actually sell for that much though. That's dead on or even a good deal price wise. Make sure the guide yokes are intact, get any accessories you can. And my statement on how good the deal is is just based on prices I've seen. I'd argue the saw, if it is in good condition, is worth far more than what they go for. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 01:14
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I've seen a lot of recommendations for the Narex chisels. What about sharpening stones? Tenon/Dovetail saws? Is there any need for bench planes if you just get a jointer/planer machine? I want to get into more than just pocket screws for making stuff but don't want to spend a fortune on everything. Looking for some budget recommendations on how to best get into this.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:12
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excidium posted:I've seen a lot of recommendations for the Narex chisels. What about sharpening stones? Tenon/Dovetail saws? Is there any need for bench planes if you just get a jointer/planer machine? I want to get into more than just pocket screws for making stuff but don't want to spend a fortune on everything. Looking for some budget recommendations on how to best get into this. Depends what you're making. A planer is good for dimensioning but will not give a nice finish. My advice for hand tools is buy fewer tools but nicer tools. You only really need 3 chisels (1/4", 1/2", 1") and a 1/2" mortise chisel. You can get away with a smoothing plane for most smaller jobs (if you have a planer). If you want a good dovetail and tenon saw, look at buying a gyokucho razorsaw dozuki. All told that should build most furniture, and if you're lucky on ebay you'll probably spend less than 300 on tools. Sharpening stones, I like Arkansas oil stones. All you need is a soft Arkansas and a black Arkansas and you're good to go. Start small and buy tools as you need them.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:27
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Skippy Granola posted:If you want a good dovetail and tenon saw, look at buying a gyokucho razorsaw dozuki. Looks like Woodcraft has this on sale for $29 and their normal price is $63
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Feb 24, 2017 18:55
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Skippy Granola posted:Depends what you're making. A planer is good for dimensioning but will not give a nice finish. Sure you didn't mean 1/4" or 3/8" mortising chisel? 1/2" is extremely large for a mortising chisel to be used building furniture. Also on sharpening: scary sharpening (using sandpaper) is quite a bit cheaper than stones to get into, and if you buy good 3M mylar backed paper, it will take a looonng rear end time before Waterstones or oilstones would have a lower total cost of ownership. If I only had one plane it would be a high quality plane between 15-18" long, e.g. a fore plane. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 19:09
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GEMorris posted:Sure you didn't mean 1/4" or 3/8" mortising chisel? 1/2" is extremely large for a mortising chisel to be used building furniture. I just like big fat meaty tenons, basically. Some folks say a tenon should be 1/3 the width of the piece, some say between 1/2 and 3/4. I just keep snapping the bastards because I'm a gorilla, so I err on the side of pretty big. I guess 3/8 is a nice catch-all size that will fit most applications. But buy a nice one! Ray Iles or Veritas will run you about $100 but you'll only ever buy one.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:19
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Skippy Granola posted:I just like big fat meaty tenons, basically. Some folks say a tenon should be 1/3 the width of the piece, some say between 1/2 and 3/4. 3/8 is heavy for most furniture. Also: I'm not trying to pick a fight, but please cite a source that says tenons should be 3/4 the thickness of the piece. Every source I've read says 1/3 is preferred, 1/2 is frequently derided as making the mortise too weak. I have never seen 3/4 recommended in my life.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:25
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GEMorris posted:3/8 is heavy for most furniture. I read it in a Roy Underhill book 
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Feb 24, 2017 19:26
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GEMorris posted:Also: I'm not trying to pick a fight, but please cite a source that says tenons should be 3/4 the thickness of the piece. Every source I've read says 1/3 is preferred, 1/2 is frequently derided as making the mortise too weak. I have never seen 3/4 recommended in my life. This book says that tenons were traditionally 1/3rd of the thickness of the piece as an easy rule of thumb and because it was easier to cut, but with modern machines it's easier to cut a small portion off of a rail, so 1/2 is also fine. I don't recall seeing any mention of the mortise strength.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:43
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All my tables are 1/2 (3/8") thickness tenons but 1/3 is more common. I'm going to build some more tables soon and will probably switch to 1/3 (1/4") because it's less material to remove and all mine have been hand chopped.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:47
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excidium posted:I've seen a lot of recommendations for the Narex chisels. What about sharpening stones? Tenon/Dovetail saws? Is there any need for bench planes if you just get a jointer/planer machine? I want to get into more than just pocket screws for making stuff but don't want to spend a fortune on everything. Looking for some budget recommendations on how to best get into this. I focus on hand tools, but I wrote up a blog post about what I bought and why I bought it: http://www.smokingonabike.com/2017/01/01/hand-tools-for-a-newbie-woodworker/ Watch a bunch of YouTube videos from different sources and find a style of woodworking that appeals to you. Then buy what they have. For hand tools, the trick is to buy old stuff on eBay for cheap. I mention how much I paid for stuff in that link to give you a cost estimate. Speaking of eBay, I really love eBay. I bought a set of old dividers for $25 including shipping:  They all function, though they need some cleaning and lubrication. The three in the upper-right are Starrett. A single, brand new Starrett divider will run you $30-70+. The big one on the left is roughly stamped twice with TEMP. Temporary? Tempered? Dunno. The small ones are variously marked B&S Mfg; Machine tooling out of Bloomington Ind; and lastly no manufacturing mark, but a patent date in 1915. Neat. I don't know if the inside and outside calipers are useful for woodworking, but hey, I'll take 'em.
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Feb 25, 2017 01:20
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Inside and outside calipers are very useful for turnings
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Feb 25, 2017 01:32
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Finished my workbench (minus finishing up my holdfast holes) the other day, which only took far too long. http://imgur.com/a/7kw7B In summary: built an English jointer's bench based on Paul Sellers' Working Wood book. In hindsight I don't know how much I love the design but it certainly made a serviceable bench. My biggest complaints are the relatively shallow work surface, but I've already got slightly longer term plans to make one of the two benches in Schwartz' workbenches book. I made a bunch of mistakes; most were either due to being impatient or rushing, or inexperience. A couple I can chalk up to listening to Sellers' advice on things like 'you don't need a mortising chisel' mixed with the other two reasons. However, even after all that, it's a remarkably sturdy bench and has already helped me fix one thing around my house (an old toy chest of my wife's that needed new hardboard in the bottom). On the sharpening talk: I bit the bullet and bought a couple diamond plates after using sandpaper for a while. Honestly I could have gotten away with the medium and ultrafine stones but I got the coarse as well. Maybe someday I'll use it. Diamond stones work pretty well, but maybe not as well as the sandpaper - but they are considerably less of a pain in the rear end, which is nice. Having to scrape off old sandpaper and stuff was a pain in the junk.
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Feb 25, 2017 02:08
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I've been using sandpaper on glass for a long time but my patience is thinner these days and I might bite the bullet and invest in some diamond stones. Lumber rack is coming along but drat is my shop wrecked but it will be worth it. I made them relatively shallow, only about 11" deep so they are self limiting on how much I can pile on. Also threw out a lot of crap. The old shelves were built from knotty pine baseboard and I'm not sure if I want to keep it or trash it. It's really not that nice so probably trash it. edit; went up and added the 2nd row and realized that 90% of my lumber will stand vertical even though the ceiling is only 7' tall. It's got me rethinking things. wormil fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 02:21
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wormil posted:I've been using sandpaper on glass for a long time but my patience is thinner these days and I might bite the bullet and invest in some diamond stones. Knotty pine baseboard sounds interesting, but using it as shelving sounds just weird. When I was a kid we had a den that was clad in knotty pine car siding that became my bedroom. Those knots would glow when the lights turned off, it was kinda magical.
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Feb 25, 2017 03:50
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Am I weird for making very large tenons when joining aprons to larger legs? I just finished a table and used a 5/8" tenon (on a 3/4" apron) with the mortise in a 2" square leg. I can't imagine smaller shoulders/larger tenons really being a detriment when the mortise is in significantly larger stock. e: woodworking content. Because I can't seem to concentrate on one project right now, I'm making use of some of the crazier white oak I have stashed for a quick clock face. Made a lovely wedgie sled to cut out segments, cut a profile in a few steps with a router circle jig and resawed it free. The white oak is epoxied and filled to a 1/4" ply backer because it was resawn thin and wet.   
Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 03:58
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I find myself with about $400 in Sears store credit, thinking about getting a drill press. Is the craftsman line universally awful or is a drill press simple enough that a new one would be worth it? Alternately, what else should I buy with that much credit at Sears if I'm looking to do furniture making and some general handyman stuff?
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Feb 25, 2017 05:00
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Hypnolobster posted:Am I weird for making very large tenons when joining aprons to larger legs? I just finished a table and used a 5/8" tenon (on a 3/4" apron) with the mortise in a 2" square leg. I can't imagine smaller shoulders/larger tenons really being a detriment when the mortise is in significantly larger stock. The issue is the proportion the mortise takes up in the mortised piece. 1/3 is ideal based on the destruction tests I've read about, and is supported by most of the literature. 1/2 is not uncommon. The proportion of the tenon thickness to the tennoned piece is much less important (as long as it doesn't go below 1/3 itself).
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Feb 25, 2017 05:10
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The tenon shoulders are as important as the tenons, as they resist racking so you don't want them too small.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:34
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wormil posted:The tenon shoulders are as important as the tenons, as they resist racking so you don't want them too small. Yeah I need to check Hayward and Wearing to see what they recommend. Out of laziness I guess I've always just removed the same amount of material from both the thickness and the width. E.g. if it is a 3/4 rail I remove 1/4 from each face of the tenon.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:39
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GEMorris posted:Yeah I need to check Hayward 5/8 is too thick for 3/4 material because the shoulders will be too thin. Most tables aren't carrying much weight, relatively, so a 1/3-1/2 tenon by proportion is plenty. And without the shoulders a table will hold more static weight but will be weaker against racking forces.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:16
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Regarding sharpening, does anyone have an opinion on Lee Valley's diamond lapping film (PSA backed diamond sandpaper)? They seem inexpensive compared to diamond stones depending on the longevity.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:20
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wormil posted:My comment was supplementary to your post,I wasn't disagreeing. I should use more words. I think he'd be ok with 1/2 tenon and 1/8th" shoulders if he's got a good fit. In fact, I'd lean toward that over 1/3 proportion.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:26
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Falcon2001 posted:I find myself with about $400 in Sears store credit, thinking about getting a drill press. Is the craftsman line universally awful or is a drill press simple enough that a new one would be worth it? The last time I read reviews on small drill presses, 12" and below, the Craftsman was near or at the top with a slightly more powerful motor and balanced wheels. But all of them are based on the same frame. On 14", I have no idea. I bought a Jet/Orbit from the 70s. But one that is very popular is the Porter Cable at Lowe's.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:28
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Mr. Mambold posted:I think he'd be ok with 1/2 tenon and 1/8th" shoulders if he's got a good fit. In fact, I'd lean toward that over 1/3 proportion. That's what I've done in the past, run them full depth and mitered the end. I also pin my tenons on the inside of the legs, not that anyone asked, but I think it's good practice. Going forward I'm going to do 1/2 proportion, easier to chop. Unless I get my mortiser running correctly then they will be easy. Or I could do them on the router table.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:41
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wormil posted:My comment was supplementary to your post,I wasn't disagreeing. I should use more words. Oh I took it as such. The Hayward/Wearing comment was just that I wanted to know what the written record recommended for my own enlightenment, since I've been defaulting to something I'm not sure is supported by that record (but has worked for me so far).
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Feb 25, 2017 16:47
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I usually go for 3/8" mortise & tenons, usually in 7/8" material when it's all jointed and planed. Reason is that's the size chisel I have in my mortiser at the moment.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:49
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Meow Meow Meow posted:I usually go for 3/8" mortise & tenons, usually in 7/8" material when it's all jointed and planed. Reason is that's the size chisel I have in my mortiser at the moment. Yeah, I have a 1/4" mortise chisel and a 3/8" chisel and I use the 3/8" on anything 7/8" or thicker. I think in practice anything between 1/3 and 1/2 will work fine, so I default to the smallest size chisel I own that is at least 1/3. The other option is a double tenon on thicker pieces but I prefer to avoid that if possible.
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Feb 25, 2017 18:08
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If you're worried about strength, I would go to a haunched tenon rather than anything larger than 1/2. But really unless you need a very heavy duty table that looks like fine furniture I wouldn't worry about it. It's easy to get into that mindset of making things as strong as possible but they only need to be strong enough.
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Feb 25, 2017 20:05
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wormil posted:If you're worried about strength, I would go to a haunched tenon rather than anything larger than 1/2. But really unless you need a very heavy duty table that looks like fine furniture I wouldn't worry about it. It's easy to get into that mindset of making things as strong as possible but they only need to be strong enough. I generally haunch the side of the tenon that will be on the outside, mains so I can cut through grooves rather than stopped grooves. Any strength bonus is a nice addition though.
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Feb 25, 2017 20:09
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GEMorris posted:I generally haunch the side of the tenon that will be on the outside, mains so I can cut through grooves rather than stopped grooves. Any strength bonus is a nice addition though. Oh, I didn't know you had built anything besides that planer stand. What kinds of things have you built and why have you never talked about them? Or maybe you did and I forgot? Mr. Mambold posted:Knotty pine baseboard sounds interesting, but using it as shelving sounds just weird. Well they used whatever, It was built in the 60's. The neighborhood was under construction at the time and a lot of the materials in my barn/shed/shop/whatever were "recycled." Incidentally I looked at those baseboards closer today and they are still dead flat, no cup, no bow, nothing. So I pulled the few nails and put them with the other lumber. wormil fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 02:51
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wormil posted:Oh, I didn't know you had built anything besides that planer stand. What kinds of things have you built and why have you never talked about them? Or maybe you did and I forgot? Holy poo poo the level of passive aggressive here is off the charts, bravo. I'm trying to finish up a nightstand right now which includes haunched tennons on the door but I kind of got sidetracked by helping Phone with his bench and finishing a simple countertop slab to be used as a conference room table at my work.
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Feb 26, 2017 03:34
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GEMorris posted:Holy poo poo the level of passive aggressive here is off the charts, bravo. Got any progress pics? My work has the most garbo furniture and I want to make nice things but it seems like the cost would be way too high for materials alone.
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Feb 26, 2017 21:06
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Glued up my staked stool, just need to trim the joints flush and finish it. The joints on the side stretchers at the front are a bit gappy because I didn't take into account the back legs being closer together than the front legs. Oh well, it's still super sturdy and it's only a stool for the shop, so it'll do.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:17
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 This started as "oh, I sort of need a clock in the shop, I'll make one out of scrap this weekend between projects" and now I have a clock hanging in my apartment for no reason. This was sort of fun to make jigs for. Lots of circle routing and an impromptu wedgie sled. I'm going to batch out 3-4 more (I have endless amounts of small pieces of crazy figured white oak) but use walnut for the ring. Ash looks too bright and sort of unbalanced.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:16
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That's really nice.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:25
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