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Turns out you have a lot in common with corbynites
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Feb 25, 2017 12:48
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I want a labour government and vote labour so I'm exactly the opposite.
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Feb 25, 2017 12:50
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Pissflaps posted:I want a labour government and vote labour so I'm exactly the opposite. If you spent half as much time and energy supporting the Labour party as you do attacking it they'd probably be ten points ahead by now.
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Feb 25, 2017 12:51
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Crashbee posted:If you spent half as much time and energy supporting the Labour party as you do attacking it they'd probably be ten points ahead by now. Attacking a failing labour leadership is the best way to support it at the moment.
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Feb 25, 2017 12:53
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"we're gonna win win win, you're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say "Mr Prime Minister please we dont want to win anymore its too much winning we cant take it anymore" - Tony Blair
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Feb 25, 2017 12:55
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:"we're gonna win there I just wrote a blair speech
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Feb 25, 2017 12:56
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Prince John posted:I got the gist of what he was saying, but I think we need to be comfortable with this if we want to have a broad range of people representing us in parliament. I wasn't completely serious, but you make a reasonable point. In fact I don't think clever rhetoric and big words are what's needed though. Classical allusions and highbrow literary references are all well and good in a university debate or Guardian opinion piece when the whole point is to show off how smart and well read you are, but I'd really rather that public speakers used little words and just tried to put their points over clearly and simply. You see people overreaching their vocabulary and rhetorical skills all the time in student papers, in political speeches, on forums, and it's pretty rare that they wouldn't have been better served just using everyday, easy to understand language. Basically Orwell was right: http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/ quote:The writer either has a meaning and cannot express it, or he inadvertently says something else, or he is almost indifferent as to whether his words mean anything or not. This mixture of vagueness and sheer incompetence is the most marked characteristic of modern English prose, and especially of any kind of political writing. As soon as certain topics are raised, the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated hen-house. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 12:57
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Spangly A posted:there I just wrote a blair speech Cutting edge satire. The folks back in 1996 will love this.
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Feb 25, 2017 12:58
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When are you cornynismo people going to just break down and start calling it the "lamestream media" like nutters do over here.
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Feb 25, 2017 12:58
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big scary monsters posted:I wasn't completely serious, but you make a reasonable point. In fact I don't think clever rhetoric and big words are what's needed though. Classical allusions and highbrow literary references are all well and good in a university debate or Guardian opinion piece when the whole point is to show off how smart and well read you are, but I'd really rather that public speakers used little words and just tried to put their points over clearly and simply. You see people overreaching their vocabulary and rhetorical skills all the time in student papers, in political speeches, on forums, and it's pretty rare that they wouldn't have been better served just using everyday, easy to understand language. The decline in language use in American presidents is an interesting trend, predictably Bush was the dumbest motherfucker that ever spoke from the office but I want to see if Trump can last a whole presidency without ever using more a wordcount above gcse level hakimashou posted:When are you cornynismo people going to just break down and start calling it the "lamestream media" like nutters do over here. lol calm down genocide fan Pissflaps posted:Cutting edge satire. The folks back in 1996 will love this. you want to kiss tony blair on the mouth, haha Spangly A fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 13:00
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Pissflaps posted:Corbyn's 'base' is tiny and doesnt necessarily vote labour or want a labour government. Appealing to them is a waste of time. It might be, but I still think aspiring to give honest, reasoned and authentic answers to questions is something our politics desperately needs. If enough Labour politicians do it, even our dozy public might realise there's a difference between 'them' and 'the rest of them' and I'd stop hearing "they're all the same" on the doorstep over and over and over again.  big scary monsters posted:Basically Orwell was right: http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/ Thanks, that's reminded me that I really need to find some time to settle down with a few Orwell books.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:08
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Prince John posted:
Down and Out is a fantastic book for the ol' hope, in that it demonstrates a racist confronting some of their views and evolving as a person. Even if he does constantly lie about being a toff.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:13
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Spangly A posted:Down and Out is a fantastic book for the ol' hope, in that it demonstrates a racist confronting some of their views and evolving as a person. Even if he does constantly lie about being a toff. Homage to Catalonia is the cat's pyjamas as well.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:24
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Also i quote it and mention it constantly itt but Jack London's People of the Abyss is the prototype for Down and Out, and is worth everybody's time. And if you're bothering with Homage to Catalonia you'll want to try "As I Walked Out one Midsummer Morning" if only for the taste or scent of revolutionary Spain.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:28
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Prince John posted:It might be, but I still think aspiring to give honest, reasoned and authentic answers to questions is something our politics desperately needs. e: thinking about it its no different from populist movements of the past, its just quicker and impersonal
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Feb 25, 2017 13:32
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Prince John posted:Thanks, that's reminded me that I really need to find some time to settle down with a few Orwell books. It's fun to see Orwell complaining (in 1946!) about how words like "fascist" and "democracy" have become so vague in their meaning as to be useless, just ways of talking about politicals ideas that you like or dislike. And yeah his books are good, I've not read all his fiction but the nonfiction is all interesting and worth a look. As Spangly says, bear in mind that Orwell's portrayal of himself is a little unreliable and Down and Out in particular should be considered a "creative" account at least, but it's a great piece of writing. The scenes and characterisations in Paris slums and cafés are particularly good, it's a short book but you really feel you get to know the area and the people.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:33
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I love all of those books because Orwell always comes across as kind of bumbling, and never really fitting in. Homage to Catalonia is great because it's at once an astonishing idealistic phenomenon and super interesting, yet on the ground it just becomes an absolute farce. Towards the end where he is just bopping around from place to place, not taking the danger seriously as Franco's troops are moving in, and his wife flies in to take him home. Then through sheer dumb luck he avoids being arrested and nearly everybody else with him gets imprisoned.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:35
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That 'Keep the Aspidistra Flying' was so loving depressing ive never re-read it despite having read 1984 and Animal farm a zillion times.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:37
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For me, his non-fiction is where it's at. He was at best a ham-fisted fiction author. All his narratives are just vehicles for a philosophical point, and it doesn't make for particularly enthralling characters or reading. Obviously the messages behind his fiction works are interesting, but they aren't exactly deep or well-written.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:41
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hakimashou posted:When are you cornynismo people going to just break down and start calling it the "lamestream media" like nutters do over here. Top bantz. Pissflaps posted:Cutting edge satire. The folks back in 1996 will love this. Here in Wales we have a saying for people like you. gently caress off boyo. That's what we say. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 14:21
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Regarde Aduck posted:Here in Wales we have a saying for people like you. gently caress off boyo. That's what we say. Then what happens?
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Feb 25, 2017 14:39
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Pissflaps posted:Then what happens? Then Boyo fucks off, it's a very simple system. We've got it all sorted out over here in Wales.
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Feb 25, 2017 14:48
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how comes theyve got so many ukip voters in wales then
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Feb 25, 2017 14:49
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lol alright sadiq, how many of the racist mugs do you own? http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-nationalism-same-racism-says-9913799
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Feb 25, 2017 14:51
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Kurtofan posted:how comes theyve got so many ukip voters in wales then They assume you're saying it to the imaginary immigrants and it ends up encouraging them
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Feb 25, 2017 14:52
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Oberleutnant posted:There's one particular sentence that makes me crease up whenever I read it, and it's the bit where he's working in some dingy Parisian cafe with a little old lady who he thinks the world of, but the stress, long hours and filth of the dingy kitchen leads to him flipping out and calling that little old woman a loving whore because she kept moving his bin. I like where he mocks other writers grasp of cockney before boldly predicting the word gently caress would disappear
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Feb 25, 2017 14:55
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Kurtofan posted:how comes theyve got so many ukip voters in wales then Telling people to gently caress off is kind of UKIP's thing, we're a natural target.
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Feb 25, 2017 14:58
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Kurtofan posted:how comes theyve got so many ukip voters in wales then
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Feb 25, 2017 15:13
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Kurtofan posted:how comes theyve got so many ukip voters in wales then Even percentage wise, we have fewer than England.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:15
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Coohoolin posted:lol alright sadiq, how many of the racist mugs do you own? He's entirely right. Nationalism is bad.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:16
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Man, I was watching the Corbyn speech and I was kind of struck by 1: How good he is at that kind of angry injustice takedown, and 2: Why on earth that's not his thing. Like, people are right; I'm generally more into politics than most people (I had to take a break about a month ago, but I'd say over the past two years I've had significantly more interest than most), and I've been pro-Corbyn most of that time, and I haven't seen, either because I missed it (which is pretty wild since I get emails from Labour as a member and generally kept abreast of this thread) or because it's not there. And, either way, that's a significant failing; Corbyn has a real asset in being an angry firebrand and it's somehow not really gone anywhere for two years.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:20
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spectralent posted:Man, I was watching the Corbyn speech and I was kind of struck by 1: How good he is at that kind of angry injustice takedown, and 2: Why on earth that's not his thing. Like, people are right; I'm generally more into politics than most people (I had to take a break about a month ago, but I'd say over the past two years I've had significantly more interest than most), and I've been pro-Corbyn most of that time, and I haven't seen, either because I missed it (which is pretty wild since I get emails from Labour as a member and generally kept abreast of this thread) or because it's not there. And, either way, that's a significant failing; Corbyn has a real asset in being an angry firebrand and it's somehow not really gone anywhere for two years. He has a few on his FB page now and then but in person he's pretty good. But this is the point people repeat about tabloid journalism; he is doing these things. He is doing them every day. He outcampaigned most of his whiney peers for Remain. And yet when I saw him give a pretty brutal takedown on the failings of liberalism viz; education, healthcare, and the death of local industry in ramsgate, nothing shows up. When the same backbenchers want a cry every day in the mail, they get front page news. The loud anti-corbyn block is quite small, gets a shitload of press coverage, and absolutely nobody outside of active labour supporters knows or cares who they are. e; maybe it's a holdover from his kinder, gentler politics thing? that was a miserable failure so he should just ramp the poo poo out of the "why are our families unable to get jobs" stuff.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:24
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Spangly A posted:He outcampaigned most of his whiney peers for Remain. This definitely happened.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:26
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Pissflaps posted:This definitely happened. it did, days on the road he smashes the poo poo out of Jarvis, Phillips et al. You're doing the trump counter-reality thing now, it doesn't suit you. e; flaps I want to add that your argument has been for two years "why isnt he doing more" and he's always doing it but it doesn't make the news because he visibly dislikes the press. All the smarmy London media cunts I know hate him personally because he makes them feel uncomfortable about being parasites.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:26
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Spangly A posted:it did, days on the road he smashes the poo poo out of Jarvis, Phillips et al. You're doing the trump counter-reality thing now, it doesn't suit you. I prefer to think I'm ignoring its contextual nature. Spangly A posted:e; flaps I want to add that your argument has been for two years "why isnt he doing more" and he's always doing it but it doesn't make the news because he visibly dislikes the press. Fabulous strategy.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:28
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Coohoolin posted:lol alright sadiq, how many of the racist mugs do you own? I'll be interested to see what he has to say about 'a more federal UK', because that's something I'd like to see, only replace 'more federal' with 'actually federal, sovereignty is granted to Westminster by the regions, not vice versa, with something in writing too'.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:31
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Pissflaps posted:He's entirely right. Nationalism is bad. For a second I thought he might actually be speaking out against the rising tide of English nationalism, but no, he's gone up to Scotland to criticise them for wanting to break away from the tyre fire that is England.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:32
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Spangly A posted:He has a few on his FB page now and then but in person he's pretty good. But this is the point people repeat about tabloid journalism; he is doing these things. He is doing them every day. He outcampaigned most of his whiney peers for Remain. And yet when I saw him give a pretty brutal takedown on the failings of liberalism viz; education, healthcare, and the death of local industry in ramsgate, nothing shows up. When the same backbenchers want a cry every day in the mail, they get front page news. The loud anti-corbyn block is quite small, gets a shitload of press coverage, and absolutely nobody outside of active labour supporters knows or cares who they are. Yeah, maybe, but, as I said, I'm a labour member. Why isn't there a list of this stuff going to me? Why doesn't stuff keep showing up in this pro-left thread? I feel like someone's dropping a ball here. I can buy that the media's a problem for the fact speeches aren't hitting the papers and evening news, but I take more interest than most people and try and keep up to date on party stuff I'm aware of, and I don't see it either, and that's pretty much direct from labour to me. Someone's hosed up somewhere.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:34
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jabby posted:For a second I thought he might actually be speaking out against the rising tide of English nationalism, but no, he's gone up to Scotland to criticise them for wanting to break away from the tyre fire that is England.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:35
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spectralent posted:I feel like someone's dropping a ball here. I can buy that the media's a problem for the fact speeches aren't hitting the papers and evening news, but I take more interest than most people and try and keep up to date on party stuff I'm aware of, and I don't see it either, and that's pretty much direct from labour to me. Someone's hosed up somewhere. Well either a) Corbyn is frequently making these amazing speeches that you have to witness in person to understand and nobody is bothering to video them or talk about them anywhere on social media. Or b) he isn't.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:37
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