|
I don't see anything damning in these WikiLeaks emails on Perez IMO.
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 08:24 |
|
|
Confounding Factor posted:Just going through those emails: Headlines are all that matter It cuts both ways of course but so far Dems have been unwilling to use the knife. This is what I hope Perez realizes he needs to do. Call Assange a piss drinking rapist or something Confounding Factor posted:I don't see anything damning in these WikiLeaks emails on Perez IMO. Doesn't matter, nobody cares about context
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
Dead Cosmonaut posted:The HRC Clinton disaster is here to stay in the Democratic Party. That's you, actually. You're the one enabling a fascist by refusing to compromise at all and stomping home with your ball. You are perfectly to blame for this and you can't escape that by going "W-well, I didn't vote for anyone!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Not 'rewarding' the party with your vote when the opposition is unified and willing to compromise to get their guy in just means you lose and will continue to lose and rather than minimal progress you get the current status quo. yep. bernie got a made up position with no power. then he got yelled at for trying to use that position.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
The plan that Ellison and Perez put forward for the future of the party weren't very different in the debate they had so it's probably a good idea to see what they're actually gonna do before you throw your hands up and say gently caress it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Anyone who endorsed HRC should be banned from being in the party for good. That is the only correct punishment for such massively bad judgment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
[Lord Lambeth posted:Because maybe tom perez and keith ellison will work together in order to make a more unified democratic party? Yeah like even if you buy into the narrative that Perez is an avatar of the Obama and Hillary wings of the Democratic Party, in order to win the chairmanship he had to basically commit to sweeping reforms, and he's got a man who committed to sweeping reforms and was until like an hour ago trusted and beloved by the Bernie wing to keep him honest. I'm still a little disappointed mostly because trigger-happy idiots are already sweeping in to declare that THEY'RE NEVER VOTING FOR THE NEOLIBERAL STOOGES AGAIN but this is unequivocally a pretty good outcome if you think that the reforms Ellison promised are good. Condiv posted:they're gonna lose harder in 2018, so then I guess. i mean, after 2018 we have republicans being able to call a constitutional convention on their own and then dems are extinct anyway. Okay, so you believe that the only way to ensure a leftist party in America is to enable the rewriting of the Constitution by the attendees of CPAC?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Condiv posted:well that's what we're getting anyway so i guess it doesn't matter if I vote or not then huh? too bad the dems are wholly unwilling to compromise unlike the republicans If you genuinely don't see a difference between the current GOP and the Democrats you're an idiot, yes. Dead Cosmonaut posted:Anyone who endorsed HRC should be banned from being in the party for good. That is the only correct punishment for such massively bad judgment. Well, goodbye Mr. Sanders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:lol WikiLeaks already going hard against Perez This is your friendly reminder not to consume obvious ratfucking. Confounding Factor posted:Just going through those emails: aack! Too late!
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
Dead Cosmonaut posted:Anyone who endorsed HRC should be banned from being in the party for good. That is the only correct punishment for such massively bad judgment. Well, luckily Sanders already left the party.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
rscott posted:I hope to see something like an initiative to have a democrat candidate for every state level election in every state of country. If they want to take corporate money they need to at least use it in a way that is meaningful. It's like Wayne Gretzky says, you miss all the shots you don't take. Both Ellison and Perez talked about this a lot and with both of them on board it's likely they will. I really don't understand this thread. Perez and Ellison aren't very far apart at all policy-wise - Perez was pretty far to the left side of the Obama cabinet at Labor and was hardly a "neoliberal" or a a shill for corporations. I think it's easy to attach that label to him because he was in the old admin and thus "establishment", but as was pointed out upthread he almost didn't get confirmed because he was thought to be too left-wing. His experience at DOJ before that is also a significant plus for a big reason, too. One of the problems ANY DNC chair would be facing in 2018 and 2020 is voter suppression. Perez spent his time at DOJ going after and knocking down voter ID and other forms of voter suppression, as well as tons of other types of civil rights abuses. He may seem a bit soft-spoken but he is a fighter. I think Perez and Ellison would both be equally aware of and motivated to deal with those sorts of things, but Perez wrote part of the playbook to do it and was successful at it while he was in the Civil Rights Division. I feel like that can't be overlooked. I would have been just fine with Ellison - he'd have done a great job. I think the only issue here is symbolism because of what people associate he and Perez with, but I think that's unfair, and before anyone rips up their party registration or gives up entirely, maybe we should see how they work together and what they prioritize. After all at a very minimum with both of them we just got a huge upgrade over Brazile, DWS, or Kaine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:If you genuinely don't see a difference between the current GOP and the Democrats you're an idiot, yes. The Democrats got Donald Trump elected, and Donald Trump got Donald Trump elected The equivalency holds
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:If you genuinely don't see a difference between the current GOP and the Democrats you're an idiot, yes. How's that little girl you traumatized into having a breakdown after election night doing btw?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
Fraction Jackson posted:I would have been just fine with Ellison - he'd have done a great job. I think the only issue here is symbolism because of what people associate he and Perez with, but I think that's unfair, and before anyone rips up their party registration or gives up entirely, maybe we should see how they work together and what they prioritize. After all at a very minimum with both of them we just got a huge upgrade over Brazile, DWS, or Kaine. Hell, it's a huge upgrade over Howard loving Dean.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
I'm happy Perez won if only for the number of idiots here and elsewhere who know nothing about him raging like hes the reincarnation of Boss Tweed and not a solid progressive who actually works to improve things for the middle class. You wanted Ellison soley as a symbol, and don't actually give two shits about working for change. Not a one of you will actually put in the work and effort to build a new party, you'll just sulk and whine on the internet some more. Congrats to Perez, hopefully he can turn around the somewhat lackluster outreach of recent years toward organized labor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
gently caress all you Hillary pieces of poo poo she lost and you can't handle it
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:If you genuinely don't see a difference between the current GOP and the Democrats you're an idiot, yes. i see a difference. the dems can't win. and they can't win cause they're too busy sucking up to megacorps to listen to their base or even compromise. so they will lose in 2018, and we'll no longer have dems period. Quorum posted:Okay, so you believe that the only way to ensure a leftist party in America is to enable the rewriting of the Constitution by the attendees of CPAC? uh no? i think we need to stop that from happening. unfortunately, the dems just made sure they can't, cause they're idiots.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Lessail posted:gently caress all you Hillary pieces of poo poo she lost and you can't handle it I'm pretty sure the people unable to handle the loss they were just handed are not hillary supporters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Lessail posted:gently caress all you Hillary pieces of poo poo she lost and you can't handle it Hail Centrism
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Perfect Potato posted:How's that little girl you traumatized into having a breakdown after election night doing btw? What the gently caress are you on about? Condiv posted:i see a difference. the dems can't win. and they can't win cause they're too busy sucking up to megacorps to listen to their base or even compromise. so they will lose in 2018, and we'll no longer have dems period. I love that you genuinely think the outcome will be "The Democratic party vanishes into magic pixie dust and is replaced by the ideal leftist superparty who will do everything I want!!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:I'm pretty sure the people unable to handle the loss they were just handed are not hillary supporters. You're the worst of them. gently caress you
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:This is your friendly reminder not to consume obvious ratfucking. tell us more about how Hillary failed because she was too pluralistic, JeffersonClay
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
YodaTFK posted:I'm happy Perez won if only for lol you people are braindead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Condiv posted:they're gonna lose harder in 2018, so then I guess. i mean, after 2018 we have republicans being able to call a constitutional convention on their own and then dems are extinct anyway. This is sort of a side point, but amendments proposed by a convention still have to be loving ratified by 75% of states.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Democrats got Donald Trump elected, and Donald Trump got Donald Trump elected The Democrats got Trump elected in the same way that Sanders got Clinton elected. So I'm not sure your logic is watertight. Condiv posted:i see a difference. the dems can't win. and they can't win cause they're too busy sucking up to megacorps to listen to their base or even compromise. so they will lose in 2018, and we'll no longer have dems period. What exactly were you planning on doing for the Party if Ellison got elected?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
YodaTFK posted:I'm happy Perez won if only for the number of idiots here and elsewhere who know nothing about him raging like hes the reincarnation of Boss Tweed and not a solid progressive who actually works to improve things for the middle class. You wanted Ellison soley as a symbol, and don't actually give two shits about working for change. Not a one of you will actually put in the work and effort to build a new party, you'll just sulk and whine on the internet some more. Good to see the middle is all that matters, everything is middle class, including my dog.  I mean, I hope he does well, I'll wait and see, his past gives me plenty of hope, his connections less so. Bitch me out on TS. I dare you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
Condiv posted:uh no? i think we need to stop that from happening. unfortunately, the dems just made sure they can't, cause they're idiots. Is this because this election result ensures you (and, I assume, others who feel as you do) won't vote for their candidates in 2018? I'm still a little confused as to your proposed cause -> effect relationship here, or your proposal for direct action moving forward. You seem to think that the elimination of the democrats would be a positive, despite that in your scenario said elimination would be thanks to America becoming a one-party state.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
YodaTFK posted:You wanted Ellison soley as a symbol, and don't actually give two shits about working for change. Umm, I live in Keith's district and can say he's really loving good at turning out the vote and bringing in people who would normally vote R. Kinda what we need as the head of the DNC right now, but ~hey whatever~
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:I'm pretty sure the people unable to handle the loss they were just handed are not hillary supporters. I was hoping for Ellison or a Butt Mayor Compromise precisely because that would result in fewer temper tantrums while being totally acceptable/good in actual practical terms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:tell us more about how Hillary failed because she was too pluralistic, JeffersonClay She focused too much on pluralism and not enough on her economic plan. It's sad that the US electorate didn't respond to "racism, sexism and islamophobia are bad" but that's exactly what happened.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:lol you people are braindead. You're literally mad that a good canidate beat another good candidate. Tell me about how I should be purged for supporting progressive policy. Go on, do it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:The Democrats got Trump elected in the same way that Sanders got Clinton elected. So I'm not sure your logic is watertight. There is no point in a primary system that does not reflect the national election map. Clinton is a complete loving disaster and her supporters, including Perez, are insisting that they should be given a Democrats are not going to win in 2018 and 2020. I’m calling it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
rscott posted:The plan that Ellison and Perez put forward for the future of the party weren't very different in the debate they had so it's probably a good idea to see what they're actually gonna do before you throw your hands up and say gently caress it. Pretty much this. I'd rather it was Ellison but I trust Perez because he cleaned up the civil rights group at Justice and was an excellent Secretary of Labor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:What the gently caress are you on about? no, they'll vanish into illegality after the repubs change the constitution. they'll be replaced with one-party rule by the republicans because they were idiots and threw away a good deal of support to suck off bankers some more. hope that makes things clearer. Trabisnikof posted:What exactly were you planning on doing for the Party if Ellison got elected? i'd already been trying to get involved more in my local party. hopefully someday oklahoma could be purple. too late for that now...
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
We'll see what happens with Perez, not going to write him off eventhough nothing I've read about him is encouraging. Just seems like another bullshit corporate Democrat, but I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I just don't think the Democrats have learned anything from the election loss to seize an emerging opportunity that pushes the party to the left. There's too much tension right now between progressive and reformers in the party, that'll probably eat each other while Trump and the Republicans maintain control in '18, '20 and beyond.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
RembrandtQEinstein posted:Umm, I live in Keith's district and can say he's really loving good at turning out the vote and bringing in people who would normally vote R. Kinda what we need as the head of the DNC right now, but ~hey whatever~ Ideal scenario: Ellison does exactly that while Perez focuses more on the internal organizational stuff that HE is good at.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
Lessail posted:gently caress all you Hillary pieces of poo poo she lost and you can't handle it I voted for Bernie in the primaries. It's possible to be okay with Perez and not be anti-the Sanders wing of the party.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Quorum posted:Is this because this election result ensures you (and, I assume, others who feel as you do) won't vote for their candidates in 2018? I'm still a little confused as to your proposed cause -> effect relationship here, or your proposal for direct action moving forward. You seem to think that the elimination of the democrats would be a positive, despite that in your scenario said elimination would be thanks to America becoming a one-party state. not just me, tons of other disaffected voters we need to energize to win. we lost because we cannot mobilize not only our base, but third party voters and non-voters. we can't mobilize them because we refuse to play to their issues unless they are rich. and so our base will continue to shrink, more voters won't vote for us, and we'll keep losing nationwide. the vote for perez was a vote for the status quo as far as the dems go, so we are doomed to lose even more power.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Condiv posted:no, they'll vanish into illegality after the repubs change the constitution. they'll be replaced with one-party rule by the republicans because they were idiots and threw away a good deal of support to suck off bankers some more. hope that makes things clearer.... ... So, uh, your argument here is "they didn't do what I wanted and so I am perfectly okay with everything becoming terrible forever and will absolutely take no action whatsoever to try to prevent it because it isn't the ideal situation for me."
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 08:24 |
|
|
StealthArcher posted:
poo poo just got real yall
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:24
|
|
