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stone cold posted:That's horrible, and I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. it's far from a certainty if it makes you feel any better, just not looking good at this particular moment.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:10
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Statistically, this is the most likely person to vote for Hildawg in the general. Seems like black people DO know about the superpredator thing, yet voted for her anywhere. This doesn't seem to me to support what Majoratarian was saying.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:11
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dan didio gets it. pretty solid posts highlighting the absurdity of the democrats combatting leftism now but somehow being cool with it "later"
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Feb 26, 2017 04:12
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Nevvy Z posted:Statistically, this is the most likely person to vote for Hildawg in the general. Black people are statistics now? You don’t say.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:13
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yellowyams posted:it's far from a certainty if it makes you feel any better, just not looking good at this particular moment. I mean, it's not about me feeling better, it's about what a horrible thing that is, and I guess I'm trying to extend some sympathy and empathy to you? I dunno, if you ever want to dump or vent, I have pms. I'm just sorry that that's a thing you're going through right now, and it's atrocious.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:13
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Condiv posted:they're just not in the dem party Keith Ellison is a member of the Democratic Party, and I imagine he would fight for her. I think the Democratic Party is ultimately a means to an end, and that end is making people's lives better. There are plenty of people affiliated with the Democratic Party who are good people, even if the party itself is a bad institution.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:13
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RaySmuckles posted:dan didio gets it. they'll always be cool with it "later". i've been hearing that bullshit since i was a tiny leftist childe
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Feb 26, 2017 04:13
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Dan Didio posted:Nor does it exist in the governing party, that beat the Democrats at the last national election and every lower level election for the last good long while. Frankly, that's an issue of strategy more than anything. The Democrats utterly failed to care about elections at anything other than the national level ever since Howard Dean stopped being DNC chair. I don't think it's necessarily a question of left vs. center. Believe me, I'm to the left of the Democrats and I'd have preferred Ellison, but both he and Perez could succeed or fail in the exact same way based on strategy alone.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:14
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Condiv posted:
Yeah, that is horrific (if it happens). What are you doing to stop it? Is this evidence of a rightward shift in the Democratic Party (i.e. would they have been more or less likely to have done this ten, twenty, thirty years ago?) Do other pieces of evidence suggest that Democrats are moving rightward? How do they, in their magnitude, to pieces that may suggest the opposite?
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Feb 26, 2017 04:14
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Mark Blyth in a prophetic voice: “I told you so”
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Feb 26, 2017 04:15
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Black people are statistics now? You don’t say. Everyone's a statistic. There's about 300 million people in this country dont'cha know.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:15
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Lightning Knight posted:Keith Ellison is a member of the Democratic Party, and I imagine he would fight for her. I think the Democratic Party is ultimately a means to an end, and that end is making people's lives better. There are plenty of people affiliated with the Democratic Party who are good people, even if the party itself is a bad institution. I don't know, I believed in Dean and Brazille and a lot of people who utterly let me down in the past cycle and barely came across as better than a Republican in terms of pure cynicism, and I'm of the mind that I want evidence there's a single good soul in Gomorrah, at this point. Just completely disheartened. I still defend Obama as a step in the right direction, but I worry he is the fulfillment of the DNC's utmost liberal agenda, and if so, as someone getting actively hosed by Obamacare at the moment, that doesn't bode well.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:15
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Lightning Knight posted:Don't get trapped in a depressive spiral looking at the news all day and fearing the worst. I'm not going to tell you things will be ok. Things won't be ok. But there are people who want to fight for you and protect you from people like Trump, regardless of who is DNC chair, and you can't give up on the idea that things can get better if we fight hard enough for it. If you do, there's nothing left to do. God I hope so.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:16
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Probably Magic posted:I don't know, I believed in Dean and Brazille and a lot of people who utterly let me down in the past cycle and barely came across as better than a Republican in terms of pure cynicism, and I'm of the mind that I want evidence there's a single good soul in Gomorrah, at this point. Just completely disheartened. I live in fear every day that they'll try to deport my father because he's a naturalized citizen, and I'm already juggling untreated clinical depression for lack of money to go to therapy. There was a guy in the Trump thread who would bang on and on every page about how giving up and embracing hopelessness is what allows fascism and the right to win. I think I agree with him. We might all die to global warming/being rounded up for the camps, but until such a time comes to pass I think we have to do what we can with what we have regardless of whether or not it works out consistently.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:18
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Nevvy Z posted:Everyone's a statistic. There's about 300 million people in this country dont'cha know. There are only 60 million, according to the Democrats. The rest don’t exist, especially the Trump voters. But I do hope the DNC gets on board with Lightning “we don’t need Trump voters” Knight’s brilliant plan so I can have a good laugh as fascism takes over this country and the liberals flail ineffectually like a beached porpoise.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:19
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Harrow posted:Frankly, that's an issue of strategy more than anything. The Democrats utterly failed to care about elections at anything other than the national level ever since Howard Dean stopped being DNC chair. I don't think it's necessarily a question of left vs. center. Believe me, I'm to the left of the Democrats and I'd have preferred Ellison, but both he and Perez could succeed or fail in the exact same way based on strategy alone. Strategically, having a group invested in prosecuting local election campaigns and organizing across the country seems like a good strategic choice to have onside in said strategy. Majorian posted:How about you put a little more effort into your posts and tell me where I'm wrong, slugger? I did in the post where I pointed out that stringing the left along until 'next time' and never delivering is the Dem party's choice tactic and you explicitly agreed with me and then said, 'but next time!'.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:19
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Edible Hat posted:Yeah, that is horrific (if it happens). What are you doing to stop it? Is this evidence of a rightward shift in the Democratic Party (i.e. would they have been more or less likely to have done this ten, twenty, thirty years ago?) Do other pieces of evidence suggest that Democrats are moving rightward? How do they, in their magnitude, to pieces that may suggest the opposite? what am i gonna do to stop it? well first i called perez out on twitter about it. hopefully if he's truly a friend of labor he'll put a stop to it or make sure it doesn't happen. not much i can do beyond that since I'm not a member of the establishment. as for the rightward swing of dems, is the grand bargain a good example? trading short term tax increases for slashes to social security? what about hillary talking about how we need to embrace the entitlement reform aspects of simpson-bowles? rightward enough for you? what about dems refusing to raise minimum wage to try to match inflation? what about them sabotaging legislation to reimport drugs to help drug prices cause "canadian drugs aren't up to our standards"??
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Feb 26, 2017 04:19
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Condiv posted:they'll always be cool with it "later". i've been hearing that bullshit since i was a tiny leftist childe As much as I want the Democrats to move left, I can't help but think this is the absolute worst time to abandon the only party with anything close to the numbers needed to defeat the current party in power. I know it's tempting to think that a mass exodus from the party could spawn a new, left-wing party that'll defeat both the Democrats and Republicans one day, but the idea of basically ceding everything to the Republicans for the next decade and a half while that happens is horrible given what the Republican Party has been for the past several decades and how much worse it's getting by the week. I know, I know, I'm talking like a centrist shill. I get it. And I know that it's been generation after generation of the left wing being told to step in line while the center runs things. All I'm saying is that this is, without overreaction, the worst possible time to decide enough is enough. I'm 100% on board with calling out the Democrats and pushing them left every single time it's possible but I know there are plenty of people right now taking Perez's win to mean it's time to abandon the party forever, which means it's never going to budge and that scares the poo poo out of me.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:20
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Lightning Knight posted:Keith Ellison is a member of the Democratic Party, and I imagine he would fight for her. I think the Democratic Party is ultimately a means to an end, and that end is making people's lives better. There are plenty of people affiliated with the Democratic Party who are good people, even if the party itself is a bad institution. unfortunately, all the good people are kept out of power so the bad ones can screw everyone over. and doubly unfortunately, perez' election signals this isn't changing soon
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Feb 26, 2017 04:20
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Edible Hat posted:And yet, on every issue, Democrats have moved leftward for the last decade. A decade ago, an Ellison figure would not have gotten half of the votes he received today and Sanders would have been an also-ran. To say that Democrats are moving rightward is belied by all evidence I can see. Now, like many of you, I wish they were moving leftward faster and will vote according to make them happen. What are you doing to achieve that? hmm, i don't know if i agree with this post 10 years ago was 2007. 2007 was the beginning of obama's candidacy, right? so 10 years ago we had a candidate discussing the public option openly, promising to wind down the wars, close gitmo, reduce discrimination against immigrants, and reduce the influence of money and lobbyists in politics. sounds to me like the dems have been primed for leftist politicians since the Bush era and the Dems have been continuously failing to provide them, or at least provide ones that will actually implement that stuff. i think its true that the dems were more conservative during clinton, but after Bush, 9/11, 2 wars, war crimes, and the great recession/jobless recovery, i think you'll find the motivations of the base to be very different
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Feb 26, 2017 04:20
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There are only 60 million, according to the Democrats. The rest don’t exist, especially the Trump voters. We very literally do not need to directly appeal to Trump voters in any meaningful fashion to establish a meaningful foothold in the government again and eject the Trumpists, and that you're chomping at the bit to denounce political correctness and extol the virtues of going after Trump voters is immensely telling.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:21
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Probably Magic posted:I don't know, I believed in Dean and Brazille and a lot of people who utterly let me down in the past cycle and barely came across as better than a Republican in terms of pure cynicism, and I'm of the mind that I want evidence there's a single good soul in Gomorrah, at this point. Just completely disheartened. Eh, Warren is still there. I wasn't happy about her voting for Carson as HUD secretary, but she's done right by me otherwise. Sanders is still basically a left-Dem, even if he doesn't label himself that way. Kamala Harris isn't perfect, but I think she'll turn out to be a pretty good progressive voice in the Senate. Dean has lost sight of the way the wind is blowing politically, but I think he's still a good dude and probably going to be more supportive of economic populism going forward. Brazille was always an idiot, though - I don't know what to tell you there, I'm afraid.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:22
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Harrow posted:As much as I want the Democrats to move left, I can't help but think this is the absolute worst time to abandon the only party with anything close to the numbers needed to defeat the current party in power. I know it's tempting to think that a mass exodus from the party could spawn a new, left-wing party that'll defeat both the Democrats and Republicans one day, but the idea of basically ceding everything to the Republicans for the next decade and a half while that happens is horrible given what the Republican Party has been for the past several decades and how much worse it's getting by the week. it's always the worst possible time. dems have already decided they'd rather cede everything to repubs with the election of the man no-one really cared about, but a whole lot of people hated. the dems have made it clear in no uncertain terms they do not give a gently caress about the left, even when they are drat near about to die as a party. so let em die Condiv fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 04:23
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The DNC doesn't need Trump voters because Trump voters a myth. Trump didn't win the popular vote, and what votes he did win were mainly from reluctant Republicans acting out of fear of Hillary. Proof: Most of those people voted for Obama in 2008. Yes, stuff like Black Lives Matter scares them, and that's beyond disappointing and going to be difficult to communicate with them about, but I know firsthand of Republicans who would've voted for Bernie if he'd won. Trump's coalition doesn't really exist, but much like everything he does, is a game of smoke and mirrors reliant on brand and screaming about how great he is.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:23
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RaySmuckles posted:hmm, i don't know if i agree with this post Yeah, but Obama was also running to the left of what was at least perceived as the Democratic mainstream.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:25
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RaySmuckles posted:hmm, i don't know if i agree with this post repeat after me the president is not a king the president is not a king the president is not a king
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Feb 26, 2017 04:25
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BiohazrD posted:repeat after me he didn't need to be to prosecute the banks for the illegal poo poo they pulled
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Feb 26, 2017 04:26
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Probably Magic posted:The DNC doesn't need Trump voters because Trump voters a myth. Well, two things. For starters, the majority of people who voted Trump are just Republicans. We've already rightfully mocked the idea that the Democratic Party should move right to try and capture the suburban Republican vote, because they'll never vote Democrat. It's just not gonna happen and is a dumb strategy top to bottom. Secondly, the people who honestly, truly just voted Trump for the economic message can be won over with fulfillment of the platform and better candidates to back that platform up and will be drawn by legitimate solutions to our current economic problems. making GBS threads all over racial minorities isn't necessary to draw them in and implying that it is, is asinine.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:26
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BiohazrD posted:repeat after me No, but I don't think most leftists are demanding that Democratic politicians bring about a complete political revolution at the drop of a hat. What we need, at bare minimum, is a sign that they're willing to fight.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:28
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BiohazrD posted:repeat after me yeah incrementalism is the only way to pass policy and make it last which is why trump and company is about to undo all 8 years of obama's presidency in 1-2, while actually doing a lot of the poo poo he said he would do. it doesn't matter whether or not he's successful. he's blowing incrementalism out of the loving water. sure, the president isn't king, but a president with a subservient congress can get a lot of poo poo done.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:29
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BiohazrD posted:repeat after me The Trump administration is also a good case study of how our constitution works against a president who wants to be a king.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:30
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Obama also didn't really use executive power to as full an extent as past presidents, which on a constitutional level is a relief after all the abuses in the decades prior, but in terms of starting a second New Deal, was not conducive. How to tread that line is... not something I fully know how to propose.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:30
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Lightning Knight posted:We very literally do not need to directly appeal to Trump voters in any meaningful fashion to establish a meaningful foothold in the government again and eject the Trumpists, and that you're chomping at the bit to denounce political correctness and extol the virtues of going after Trump voters is immensely telling. I know better than to rely on minorities to defend my lovely trade policies, or respect American institutions enough not to buy a gun in Trumpland to defend myself or rely on political correctness and the 1st Amendment to protect me from the cops. Leftists have no qualms beating up Nazis, but you won’t find many among Trump’s base. I grew up in a small town and these people really don’t want to hear classist remarks from a tea drinking liberal who held office in New York once. But if you bring them a socialist, they will listen. Hillary was so bad that Trump actually outflanked her from the left on issues such as free trade, and didn’t have to rely on a record to prove it. Have you spent any time thinking why the Democrats lost in 2016 at all? It’s been months already.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:31
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Republicans couldn't have wished for better Democratic Presidents than Bill Clinton and Obama.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:32
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Rodatose posted:Hillary clinton did worse with hispanics and afams than obama. The flipping of arizona, georgia and possibly texas didn't happen (in addition to losing florida and NC; the latter was able to elect a dem governor at the same time). The demographic certainty pollsters talked about had far too many assumptions that proved false. NC's election of a Dem governor was entirely because McCrory was utterly loving loathed and even then he barely lost. The NCGOP also enacted a bunch of changes for the election that were done specifically to target minorities and other Democratc-heavy voters. How do we know? Because they did a lot of work collecting information about voter demographics and habits and used that information to explicitly target activity that was Dem-heavy in voter turnout, like souls to the polls Sunday voting. If NC, among other states, wasn't controlled by a party that actively works to ensure as few of those people can vote as possible some other races there might've turned out differently as well. That McCrory (barely) lost was still a bit of a shock and as a gently caress You on his way out the NCGOP gutted the governor's authority and now the new governor is stuck suing to undo the GOP's blatant power grab. Lightning Knight posted:We very literally do not need to directly appeal to Trump voters in any meaningful fashion to establish a meaningful foothold in the government again and eject the Trumpists, and that you're chomping at the bit to denounce political correctness and extol the virtues of going after Trump voters is immensely telling. When you see someone posting about how awful it is we get hung up on 'political correctness' and especially about race/gender, it's because that person just wants to be an rear end in a top hat and not get shunned for it.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:32
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Republicans couldn't have wished for better Democratic Presidents than Bill Clinton and Obama. i know right? with the dems help the country is now so far right wing we're tumbling into fascism!! good job dems!
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Feb 26, 2017 04:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:When you see someone posting about how awful it is we get hung up on 'political correctness' and especially about race/gender, it's because that person just wants to be an rear end in a top hat and not get shunned for it. Really, it's probably just abstract bitching about Tumblr but it doesn't really have any prescriptions or even relevancy.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:When you see someone posting about how awful it is we get hung up on 'political correctness' and especially about race/gender, it's because that person just wants to be an rear end in a top hat and not get shunned for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bixgOtkLao
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Feb 26, 2017 04:34
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BiohazrD posted:we have pretty much universal support for marriage equality in the party With someone as unpopular as trump or pence in 2020, I think different rights groups should go all out in pushing what's achievable. The way an opposition party acts is different from how a governing party should, and Democrats are an opposition party now.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:34
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Doesn't Zizek have really poor ideas about transgenderism? Because speaking of North Carolina, the loss of business from HB2 is part of what swung the votes away from McCrory because even most conservatives don't care who's using the bathroom.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:36
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