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Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Oh speaking of
Are there 'true hit' shenanigans in fates? Tae keeps saying dodge tanking is heavily nerfed in fates but never exactly why.

Yeah, pretty much. No ones 100% sure how it works now, but the basic gist from what I understand is that 1-50% hit rates work as displayed instead of the double number system, and that 51-99% have a skewed version but that it's less generous than True Hit from FE6-13 were.

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CandyCrazy
Oct 20, 2012

From what I've seen, it's speculated the formula for above 50% is, given two random numbers "A" and "B", "(3A + B) / 4".

A relevant link: https://fire-emblem-strategy.tumblr.com/post/143452625727/how-fates-handles-hit-rates

CandyCrazy fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Feb 25, 2017

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Dodge tanking being nerfed heavily hurts Hana, and to an extent Azura as well. Kaze would be an even better unit if it was still a thing.

CandyCrazy
Oct 20, 2012

It's also worth noting that while dodge tanking got hit harder, regular tanking didn't come out completely clean either. Skills like Poison Strike bypass your defense stat, and debuffs can be fairly significant, especially on Lunatic.

Combined with lower HP growths across the board, Fates makes great efforts toward making your units less invincible.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Unit reviews.

Hinoka - Mechanically, Hinoka is pretty much the biggest reason Subaki is worthless. I mean, you're probably not gonna bother using a unit when they're rendered completely obsolete literally one stage later, right? And yes, her Guard Naginata is awesome; sure, it makes it a bit harder to dodge, but when it makes it that much harder for enemies to damage you I'd say it's worth it (the kicker: It isn't even exclusive to her, so if you get more you can equip other Lance-users with them). Anyway, she's probably one of my favorite characters in the game.

Azama - Azama suffers from having a worthless personal skill, but he's got pretty great growths. Personally, I tend to think of him (promoted, of course) as a front-line fighter who happens to be able to heal rather than a healer with the ability to attack. Unfortunately, I detest him as a character.

Setsuna - Probably the second-worst character in my save. Sure, she's basically guaranteed to cap Speed, but I think I got, like, ONE point of strength from levels at 20 (which is just ATROCIOUS). I checked, and not only is she the third-weakest out of ALL the units who start out using Strength (only having higher innate growth than Felicia and freakin' GUNTER, the latter of whose total growths tend to be around the value of individual stats' growths for the good units), but she doesn't have ANYTHING to fall back on (she has literally no Magic growth, and sadly the skills she learns aren't enough to compensate for having 13-ish Strength at endgame). In fact, I've checked, and her Strength growth is even worse than GENERIC ARCHERS. Frankly, I think Setsuna only works early-game and as emergency anti-air; later on her Strength tends to suffer so much that she's literally incapable of damaging things without the player going out of their way to set up a kill for her (debuff the enemy's Defense, buff Setsuna's Strength, give her a partner who boosts her damage, AND give her a forged weapon... well, actually, that last bit might be exaggeration). And she doesn't get a reprieve from the "character" front, either; she's so clueless it infuriates me.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


I suppose I shouldn't have underestimated one who carries the sacred Yato blade.
Now, I will gladly hear an explanation for the unprovoked attack on my people.
Yes, of course. Wait—what do you know of my blade?



I learned much about the history of that weapon from him. I also shared concern for its future, which is why it was necessary for me to test you.
Test me? How so?



THE SEAL OF THE FLAMES

In the wrong hands, it could unleash enough power to end the world.
That's why I wanted to see for myself if you are indeed the right person to handle it.
I see. And what of the villagers we wounded?
I already knew that you and your associates were acting in good faith. For what reason would Hoshidan royalty attack a stranger? And then allow her party to be peacefully captured by the stranger's tribe? No, I was well aware that something was amiss.

I mean, that's actually logical in some way

Well, thank you for believing in us. This is the first good news we've had in some time, I'm afraid.
Oh? Please, I would gladly hear your full story. But let us freshen up from the battle and sit down to a proper meal first.
I appreciate the invitation—and believe me, a bit of rest and a meal are what we need... But we're in search of Lord Ryoma and Lord Takumi.
We haven't a moment to spare.
I see. Then you must be on your way. Best of luck.

*A moment later*



Yes. I'm glad to know we can still count the Wind Tribe among our friends.
I'm still puzzling a bit over what Fuga said about my blade. Do you know anything about the Seal of Flames?
No. But I found it curious that he described "linking" the seal. Could there be more than one Seal of Flames? If so, could there be more than one sacred blade out there? It is a troubling idea. What if our enemies already possess a similar weapon?
Right. That is a troubling thought. But let's focus on the problems in front of us before inventing new ones.
You're right, Corrin. I suppose I'm getting carried away.
Perhaps we've spoken too soon. Here comes Chief Fuga, and he appears to be in a hurry.



How can we help you, Chief? Is everything OK?
Yes, yes, thank you. It occurred to me that we might be able to make a mutually beneficial arrangement. You are in need of all the men and women you can get. And we have a skilled diviner who could use some real-world experience.

That sounds like a kid. Don't give us a kid, we already have one.

His name is Hayato, and he would like to offer his services to your party.

Damnit.



Goddamnit

Um...
I caught that look! Don't think I didn't!
Please! Don't judge him by his youthful appearance. Hayato has mastered a number of unique skills that make him invaluable.
I don't mean to sound conceited, but... You would be lucky to have me on your team.

The audience will determine that

Very well! I certainly won't turn down your assistance at a time like this.
Splendid. I hope he makes a valuable addition to your team. And as for you, Hayato, I'm glad to finally be able to offer you this chance to travel.



Of course. It's just that Hayato has not had much opportunity to leave the village. In addition to helping you, he will be exploring the world for the first time.
I see. I think I understand exactly how he feels. After all, I spent most of my childhood locked in a Nohrian castle.
Well, then I'm sure you two will have a lot to talk about. And I trust you'll take good care of our Hayato.

Wait, what would they talk about. "Hey, I've been stuck in one place all my life." "Yeah, me too." "Good talk."



You're right, you're right. I must admit that I still feel a bit protective at times...
Dad! I mean...Chief! Lord Corrin, he's not my dad. He's just looked after me since I was a child.
It's OK. I understand. Anyway...we should get going. Welcome aboard, Hayato. And thank you for everything, Chief Fuga.
No need to thank me. Please feel free to come back here anytime you'd like. I'm proud to have met the one whom the sacred Yato chose. We shall meet again.



OF COURSE HE'S LEVEL 1 :argh:

Units Joined

Hayato



Class sets: Starts as Diviner, Oni Savaga
PSkill: Pride-When user’s Level is lower than the enemy’s (promoted units count as Level +20), damage +3

Growth Rates
HP: 50
STR: 35
MAG: 55
SKL: 40
SPD: 60
LCK: 65
DEF: 40
RES: 30

Hayato is basically your Est trainee character with good growths at a low level, with some reliable HP growths considering Fates. He's like Azama in being in a magical class but has way better physical growths, since being an Oni Savagae bumps up his HP and DEF to absurdly high levels.

Class Overview: Archer, Diviner

Archer



Pair-up Bonus: +2 STR/SKL/SPD
Weapon rank: Yumi (B)
Skills: (lvl 1) Skill +2
(lvl 10) Quick Draw-When user triggers the battle, damage +4

Archers got both an obvious and subtle buff in Fates. They give SPD instead of DEF for pair-ups, Quick Draw is amazing, the weapon triangle are great for tackling Hidden Tools which are the new best best weapons, and Bows are the strongest weapon types. I'm not kidding, Iron Yumi's are 3 mt higher than the other iron weapons, even Clubs.

The greatest advantage perhaps is that the average Archer is very speedy so they can double reliably, and they take good advantage of the 100% guaranteed dual attacks with positioning.

Diviner




Pair-up Bonus: +3 MAG/SPD
Weapon rank: Scrolls (B)
Skills: (lvl 1) Magic +2
(lvl 10) Future Sight-When user triggers the battle, Luck% chance of gaining double experience when user defeats the enemy

Diviners oddly give as much SPD pair-up bonus as a Sky Knight or Ninja, so they're sneaky good supports for slower units. Future Sight is weird, and RNG-based if your scroll users stay on par or out-level your party. Nothing else special about them besides that Scrolls themselves have a lot of amazing stat buffs for equipping them.


(All translations by kantopia)

Tae fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 25, 2017

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.
Psst, his skill growth is actually 40, 30 base + 10 from diviner.

Hayato is much better than Orochi by virtue of having a speed growth, although his base magic growth is slightly lower than Saizo (what the hell Fates.) And he gets access to one of the better classes in Fates, the oni savage line, which not a lot of characters get and the one that starts in it SUCKS.

Actually, lemme check.

Hayato only have five less defensive growth than Rinkah, his speed and res are the same, his strength growth is slightly higher, and he's got MUCH better growth in everything else. He of course comes in a much worse level and worse base stats, but it's early enough that it doesn't matter that much (and Rinkah's base stats are pretty bad anyway.) He's a better oni savage than her. What the hell Fates.

Camel Pimp fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 25, 2017

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion :3:

I haven't played Birthright, but Hayato seems pretty good to me? Bases are alright for a level 1, good growths, joins early enough, and if his Personal activates on a double, that's a hefty +6 damage. But I'm pretty sure I've read a lot of bad reviews about him, what am I missing here?

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.
He's an obnoxious prat.

Silver Falcon
Dec 5, 2005

Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and barbecue your own drumsticks!

Hayato is an insufferable little poo poo and I hate him. I didn't think they could make a "I'm actually a grown man waaaah" character more annoying than Ricken but they did. He hit the bench so hard he knocked it over.

I have an unnatural fondness for fliers, so I used Subaki. He turned out fine. I also used Hinoka, of course, and she's great. Mozu even wound up in a flying class. ALL THE FLIERS.

Rogue 7
Oct 13, 2012
Why did they copy Ricken. Nobody liked Ricken.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Hayato - He's a guy who probably SHOULD turn out well, at least. His growths're great for eventually putting him in one of the hybrid classes, which is aided by the fact that he starts out with access to two of them (one Axes and Tomes, the other Lances and Tomes); problem is, when I used him, I got RNG screwed so he turned out incredibly unimpressive (or possibly even downright bad). As a character... he's as annoying as you'd expect.

Weeble
Feb 26, 2016
Hayato has always turned out decent in my playthroughs... but really, using Hayato is not the reason most people use Hayato.

Diviners have really neat animations.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
C Support

It should've been you in Hoshido all those years—basking in the sunlight!

I don't think I'd be able to change my ways.

I know all about your facade.

I've...I've seen something terrible.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

It should've been you in Hoshido all those years—basking in the sunlight!

An interesting note is that Azura has different supports with the Avatar depending on your route. (I honestly can't think of much else to say here...)

Tae posted:

I don't think I'd be able to change my ways.

Okay, Sakura and Hana are apparently more "childhood friends" than "liege and retainer." Good for them.

Tae posted:

I know all about your facade.

Dammit, game, stop encouraging Subaki's delusions! Saizo could roflstomp him any day! Seriously, Subaki's "Mr. Perfect" gimmick would only work on a CREDIBLE combatant, not... well, Subaki.

Tae posted:

I've...I've seen something terrible.

Y'know, prophecies could probably stand to be a bit more specific...

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
C Support

You have so much bloodlust.

Your mother was truly unique

I'm so happy to hear that they're praising me!

*Lots of stammering*

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

You have so much bloodlust.

Finally, a bit of characterization for Saizo that does NOT involve rampant paranoia!

Tae posted:

Your mother was truly unique

At least the writers're trying to give Mikoto SOME characterization, even if most of it is post-mortem. That said, her primary purpose in the story is "plot device."

Tae posted:

I'm so happy to hear that they're praising me!

Finally, someone calls Subaki out on his bullshit! Frankly, I think that if he and Hana fought, Hana would probably win, weapon triangle be damned. Maybe I'm being biased, though.

Tae posted:

*Lots of stammering*

Sakura, he was actively encouraging you to ask your question, so maybe you should just pull yourself together and ask already.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

blizzardvizard posted:

I haven't played Birthright, but Hayato seems pretty good to me? Bases are alright for a level 1, good growths, joins early enough, and if his Personal activates on a double, that's a hefty +6 damage. But I'm pretty sure I've read a lot of bad reviews about him, what am I missing here?
Hayato is a victim of the characterization direction for most of Fates' cast, which is: "Here's my character gimmick. Now, hold my beer while I run this gimmick so far into the ground I hit the planet's core and then some". As others mention, Hayato takes Ricken's problems of "wants to be treated as an adult, except gets seen as the child he is" and amplifies them to insane levels without providing some interesting content to offset his behavior (like how the Ricken/Henry support actually delved into the latter's troubled past or Ricken trying to learn more about Gregor's exploits as a mercenary). Hayato brings almost none of the good qualities of Ricken to the table, which is a huge letdown because he could be a good unit overall. He doesn't have Orochi's speed issues, and thanks to his growths is the only character that can actually work as an Oni Chieftain (this promoted class uses axes/tomes, except the other people who have the class are all physical-based units) in theory. The problem is getting past Hayato's absolutely frustrating personality, and that is something that hurts Hayato more than you think. Props to Ben Diskin for pulling off Hayato's "haughty and arrogant laugh" voice clip wonderfully, though.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
If anyone was in the Awakening thread, fire off any suggestions if voting for units can be changed instead of the usual "List literally every unit" method. I want to streamline this for the eventual point when characters can't keep up to be viable choices

Well technically they can be viable, but they'll end up being stuck to someone's butt for support pairs at that point.

Melomane Mallet
Oct 11, 2012

I'm bad; I'm just not born that way.

Tae posted:

If anyone was in the Awakening thread, fire off any suggestions if voting for units can be changed instead of the usual "List literally every unit" method. I want to streamline this for the eventual point when characters can't keep up to be viable choices

Well technically they can be viable, but they'll end up being stuck to someone's butt for support pairs at that point.

I think Fedule had a good system for his PoR/RD LPs: Leave two or three slots per map up for a vote, give new units a map or two to show what they can do, and the rest can be from a core group of good units that you choose. And yeah, if characters don't get picked enough and get to the point where they can't keep up, don't list them as options anymore.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
The main problem is that fates gives you basically all the characters by chapter 13 not counting kids while the console games spread them out way more.

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.
Just keep it simple and bring Setsuna to every map

Melomane Mallet
Oct 11, 2012

I'm bad; I'm just not born that way.
Maybe do a few appropriate level challenge maps to show new units and ask "hey, do we want to keep using [character], y/n?" until you get down to a reasonable number? I can understand not wanting to do any challenges, but it is a suggestion.

E: Though thinking about it, this wont' help with Conquest at all. Ask if the thread wants to use a character when they join with the option to override goonvote if they turn out bad? :shrug:

Melomane Mallet fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 26, 2017

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

blizzardvizard posted:

I haven't played Birthright, but Hayato seems pretty good to me? Bases are alright for a level 1, good growths, joins early enough, and if his Personal activates on a double, that's a hefty +6 damage. But I'm pretty sure I've read a lot of bad reviews about him, what am I missing here?

He joins at level 1, a few maps after we've had the chance to get Mozu. You don't really need him - Orochi's a fine enough mage and Sakura is almost eligible for promotion at this point. You pretty much have to baby him, and he's not exactly leaps and bounds above his competition.

Also don't turn him into an Oni right off, wait til he promotes first. Because do you really want to struggle through E rank clubs, especially with that skill growth?

His character is also insufferable. Like Ricken turned up to 11.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

ApplesandOranges posted:

He joins at level 1, a few maps after we've had the chance to get Mozu. You don't really need him - Orochi's a fine enough mage and Sakura is almost eligible for promotion at this point. You pretty much have to baby him, and he's not exactly leaps and bounds above his competition.

Also don't turn him into an Oni right off, wait til he promotes first. Because do you really want to struggle through E rank clubs, especially with that skill growth?

His character is also insufferable. Like Ricken turned up to 11.

Being basically Ricken-but-even-squishier does not help him at all.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
His personal skill should help him with his low level. Plus, he can actually hit more than once!

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Raider Naginata-E rank, 5 mt, 1 range, +3 doubling speed, strips enemy on weapon advantage

A bit weaker than an Iron, Raider weapons are basically the best beginner weapons because they can proc abilities but more importantly, enable easier doubling. The strip thing just blows up enemies clothes into their boxers.



Decorations like Hoshidan Glade are free and are there to pretty up your MyCastle.




When you press the left shoulder button, you go into a stationary 3rd person view of the land, which is a cool thing.



But today, there's multiple choices on what to build. Prison is a new one, which is fueled by Orochi's PSkill that lets her capture most enemy grunt units and some bosses.



The other is Accessory Shop which is built now.




It's basically silly things to blow precious materials on to make battles and cutscenes funnier. Unfortunately all I can get is the free Oni Mask, the thing that Rinkah wears on her head.




Time to head to Izumo, an actual Kingdom apparently.





Fancy!

We're finally here. Izumo.
It's beautiful. I had no idea...
Yes. Some call this place the kingdom of the gods.
Even when other kingdom are at war. Izumo has remained neutral. It almost seems...too good to be true.
Who's there?
Ho! Visitors from Hoshido. We seek information about two of our friends who may have passed this way.
Will you please give us permission to enter your territory?
Ah, Lady Azura. Of course. People from the kingdom of Hoshido are always welcome within our borders. I'll notify the palace, and someone will be with you shortly.
Thank you.

Mikoto lets Azura travel as far as a neutral kingdom. That's definitely a big difference from daddy murder king.

Excuse me, before you go... We're looking for Lord Ryoma and Lord Takumi. We believe they were involved in a battle near your borders. Do you have any information about them?
A battle...around here? No, I don't think so.
Really? Nothing?
Sir, Izumo has been a neutral territory for many generations. There's simply no way a battle could have been staged around here. Ah, it seems we're ready to welcome you. Please, come this way.
Very well. (Azura, do you think he's telling the truth? How could they have not known about a battle around here?)
(I don't know, Corrin. This all feels a little strange. Let's proceed with caution.)

Corrin with suspicion???



"Look, Hinoka! I have red hair like you!"

Just wait around until someone arrives?
Yes. This is probably just a bit of formal grandstanding. I've heard that Archduke Izana likes to make people wait a few m-minutes.
Well, as long as he eventually shows up with some answers for us...

*Someone walks in*




Wow, is that the archduke? He looks so...serene!
I've never met him, but I think it must be. And you're right about his looks. He's almost oddly calm...
This is actually making me nervous...
Welcome.
Lord? Archduke Izana? May I call you Lord?



Liam 'O Brian, what are you doing here

Can I get you anything fizzy or bubbly? Or anything wibbly or wobbly? Heehee!
Um...
He's a little different than I expected...
Oh, pardon me, I didn't even introduce myself. I'm Archduke Izana! Voted best hair in Izumo five years running! I'm so happy to have some visitors from Hoshido. Now, what kind of weird stuff do y'all like to get into back in the homeland?
No, never mind, we'll get into all that later.
Let's just sit back and relax and put on some slippers for now, right? Am I right?
Um, yes. You're right. Than you.



Are you aware of a recent battle between Hoshido and Nohr in this area?
A recent battle? Ha! Not likely! And I'd be the first one to know about it. You know, 'cause I'm the archduke. Giddyup! Haha!
I see.
Maybe we're in the wrong place...
Now hold on just a minute, partner. You're in the rightest place of all. Izana's house!
But now that you mentioned a battle, I do see that some of you are wounded. Gosh, we can't have that, can we? Not with all the resources I have here.
Guys, we've got some great healers and doctors in my kingdom.



Excellent. We certainly could use a little bit of rejuvenation. Of course, we can't stay long, but it seems wise to heal our wounds while we can.
Perhaps...
Well, I won't take no for an answer. Let's get started with treatments right away! Come on, everyone, let's head over to the spa.
Thank you, Archduke.
Ooh, what do we have here? You look pretty banged up, little lady!
And your friend—Corrin, was it? Well, you're looking a bit frazzled as well. Tell you what. I've got something special in mind for the two of you. Deep restorative healing is what I call it. It mends the body and soothes the mind. Whaddaya say?
Just the two of us?
I'm not sure we're the only ones with significant wounds... But perhaps we should just play along.
Come on, guys! The hot towels won't stay hot forever!
Hmm...

*A moment later*



I wonder what all of these sharp-looking devices are for...

Come on, you were like kinda smart a while ago.

Welcome.
Archduke, are we in the right place? This is the deep-relaxation chamber?
Oh yes. You will go to sleep literally forever in this room. It's our execution chamber! Heehee!
Wait a minute!

*Enemy reinforcements arrive*



What are you playing at, Izana? This is not funny.
Well, we haven't even reached the punchline yet. I'm not Izana. Boom.

*Izana goes in a puff of smoke*



Dude, he barely remembers Silas. You got no chance.

Or don't you remember me?
I'm Zola! Dark mage of Nohr.
Am I supposed to be impressed? I don't care who you are. All I care about is what you've done with Izana.
What? Why would you care about that creep? I'm the one who's finally captured the famous Corrin! I'm the one who matters!
Anyway, good luck getting yourself and Princess Sakura out of THIS! Heehee!

*Corrin moves in front*



What are you going to do? There are too many of them...

I dunno, I bet he can take them on with Dragon mode and Sakura's PSkill...

Prepare to die!
Here we go...




No! Idiots! What are you doing?

*Enemies unveil themselves*



This is some healing treatment our hosts have arranged for us, eh?
Hinoka! How did you know?

Because she is used to dealing with the unpredictable.

This can't be happening...
Very impressive, Lady Hinoka. You were right on all counts.
I, too, had my doubts about this situation. Thank you for acting on your instincts, Hinoka.
I'm so glad you guys are here.



No matter. I still have enough power to defeat you. The joke is still on you!
Your supposed archduke acted a buffoon. No royalty would behave like that.
Precisely.
How dare you! My impression was flawless. Move forth, men. Take them out!
Get ready, everyone. We've still got a fight on our hands.




A bit cramped here. Fun fact, this was shown in the debut trailer of Fates way back when.

The trailer had Hana attacking solo which was...bold.

VOTE TIME: Vote OUT 4 characters.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12419312

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Trivia! Raider weapons strip enemies down to their skivvies, but what they wear is dependent on their origin.

So Nohrian males wear boxer briefs. Hoshidan males wear... I'm not sure what to call them. Like a loincloth of sorts.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!

ApplesandOranges posted:

Trivia! Raider weapons strip enemies down to their skivvies, but what they wear is dependent on their origin.

So Nohrian males wear boxer briefs. Hoshidan males wear... I'm not sure what to call them. Like a loincloth of sorts.

That's pretty funny and I never noticed that before!

Kay Kessler
May 9, 2013

ApplesandOranges posted:


So Nohrian males wear boxer briefs. Hoshidan males wear... I'm not sure what to call them. Like a loincloth of sorts.

They're called fundoshi.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Kay Kessler posted:

They're called fundoshi.

I was going to say that, but they're not as obviously thinner towards the back. Unless there's different styles of them.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

ApplesandOranges posted:

I was going to say that, but they're not as obviously thinner towards the back. Unless there's different styles of them.

Pretty sure there are, indeed, multiple variants on the basic fundoshi design. That said, I can't identify exactly what KIND they're wearing for you.

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.
Pretty messed up that certain people want to vote out Setsuna

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
C Support

Oh! Every morning we wake up with the same bedhead

I wouldn't expect anything less of an unenlightened person.

I'm the most motivated gal around the castle.

It's basically your responsibility now.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

The important thing with Raider weapons is that their unique clothing stripping ability triggers whenever the RNG straight up feels like doing it. Sometimes it's the first blow, sometimes it happens when you land a critical hit or trigger and connect with an offensive skill, sometimes it doesn't even happen at all. On the other hand, +3 to effective speed in combat is by far the biggest appeal of the Raider weapons, as those who have low speed growths or get speed screwed by the RNG benefit from the added boost. The Raider Yumi is a perfect tool for training up an Archer Mozu so she doesn't have to suffer through the letdown of Brass weapons, for instance. Or anyone else who you want to learn a new weapon type either through reclass or promotion, for that matter.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Raider weapons trigger when you have a weapon advantage (so in the case of Raider Katanas, against a bow- or axe- wielding opponent).

ohmygorgon
Jul 13, 2016

AradoBalanga posted:

The important thing with Raider weapons is that their unique clothing stripping ability triggers whenever the RNG straight up feels like doing it. Sometimes it's the first blow, sometimes it happens when you land a critical hit or trigger and connect with an offensive skill, sometimes it doesn't even happen at all. On the other hand, +3 to effective speed in combat is by far the biggest appeal of the Raider weapons, as those who have low speed growths or get speed screwed by the RNG benefit from the added boost. The Raider Yumi is a perfect tool for training up an Archer Mozu so she doesn't have to suffer through the letdown of Brass weapons, for instance. Or anyone else who you want to learn a new weapon type either through reclass or promotion, for that matter.

I'm almost positive that is not true. The Raider Weapons stripping ability activates whenever you have the weapon triangle advantage. A unit's armor can break apart and get torn up as they take damage, but that is totally independent from the Raider Weapons, which remove everything as soon as they hit.

I'll also say that there is little reason for Mozu to use a Raider Yumi over a Brass Yumi, considering the Brass is stronger and more accurate. The effective speed boost means almost nothing when Mozu is at E Rank, considering you are going to have a chip the enemy down enough for Mozu to actually get the kill in the first place, and skills like Poison Strike make it pretty simple to get the HP down to 1. While it is definitely useful for her to have in specific situations, Mozu gets pretty little out of the Raider Weapons in general, seeing as before she catches up to the enemies, she'll just be killing weakened enemies, and once she catches up, chances are she is doubling on her own.

While I'm on the topic, it seems like a lot of people hate Bronze/Brass Weapons. The fact that they can't crit or activate skills is a good thing, and when combined with their high accuracy and +10 dodge, they are worth keeping around the entire game, particularly for units with shaky Skl and Luk. And if, for whatever reason, you still cannot accept weapons with low damage, forging in Fates is pretty great. Since weapons have infinite durability, any unit that can make use of a forged weapon can do so throughout the entire game. Just forging a bronze weapon once gives it the same Mt as an Iron, being in E Rank is barely an issue in Fates.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

ApplesandOranges posted:

Raider weapons trigger when you have a weapon advantage (so in the case of Raider Katanas, against a bow- or axe- wielding opponent).

ohmygorgon posted:

I'm almost positive that is not true. The Raider Weapons stripping ability activates whenever you have the weapon triangle advantage. A unit's armor can break apart and get torn up as they take damage, but that is totally independent from the Raider Weapons, which remove everything as soon as they hit.
Oh yes, I know that's the specific situation where it triggers. However, I've been in cases where I had a WTA and the clothing stripping did not trigger. Might just be a weird quirk of my cartridge then.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Can't remember off the top of my head, but I think the clothing strip only triggers when you initiate the attack.

Either that, or you just didn't have the Raider weapon equipped.

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CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

Oh! Every morning we wake up with the same bedhead

Well, Sakura's apparently feeling inadequate compared to Hinoka. I don't think she's got anything to actually worry about, but...

Tae posted:

I wouldn't expect anything less of an unenlightened person.

Azama's an rear end, but at least he's got a point...

Tae posted:

I'm the most motivated gal around the castle.

Yes, falling into traps is kind of Setsuna's thing. It doesn't matter how obvious it is, she WILL fall for it. Yes, even uncovered pits. I think I might've read somewhere that she actually does it on purpose, but don't quote me on that.

Tae posted:

It's basically your responsibility now.

I have to admit, while I'm not particularly fond of Hayato, at least I like this support. I guess there's just something about the "writing home just to let them know you're okay" thing that appeals to me...

ohmygorgon posted:

I'll also say that there is little reason for Mozu to use a Raider Yumi over a Brass Yumi, considering the Brass is stronger and more accurate. The effective speed boost means almost nothing when Mozu is at E Rank, considering you are going to have a chip the enemy down enough for Mozu to actually get the kill in the first place, and skills like Poison Strike make it pretty simple to get the HP down to 1. While it is definitely useful for her to have in specific situations, Mozu gets pretty little out of the Raider Weapons in general, seeing as before she catches up to the enemies, she'll just be killing weakened enemies, and once she catches up, chances are she is doubling on her own.

While I'm on the topic, it seems like a lot of people hate Bronze/Brass Weapons. The fact that they can't crit or activate skills is a good thing, and when combined with their high accuracy and +10 dodge, they are worth keeping around the entire game, particularly for units with shaky Skl and Luk. And if, for whatever reason, you still cannot accept weapons with low damage, forging in Fates is pretty great. Since weapons have infinite durability, any unit that can make use of a forged weapon can do so throughout the entire game. Just forging a bronze weapon once gives it the same Mt as an Iron, being in E Rank is barely an issue in Fates.

...How is "less damage" a GOOD thing? I mean, yeah, kill feeding, but, completely aside from my distaste for the very idea of the concept, generally speaking if you're using E-rank weapons then you're the one BEING fed, not the feeder, so you're gonna want to do as much damage as possible. And there's plenty of reason to use a Raider Yumi over Brass for pure damage: While it's the only weapon type where the Bronze-tier weapon has more raw power than the Raider-type weapon (if barely), Bronze can't crit or trigger skills (as you, yourself, acknowledged), which, combined with the Raider Yumi making doubling easier, means its average damage output is actually LOWER.

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