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the argument that ellison and perez are both progressives so this doesn't matter is so stupid because this was way more about the vote than it was about the candidates. right now the left is mobilized as gently caress but are wary of the moderates who have a stranglehold on the party and who keep making stupid decisions that alienate their base like coddling banks at the expense of their constituents. in the aftermath of trump getting elected ellison was a symbolic olive branch to progressives that both the left and the establishment could get behind because we need a strong unified democratic party to deal with the monumental threat we now face. many were still skeptical about working within the party because dems have a history of making self-destructive decisions that weaken themselves but there was hope that with the situation this dire, things could finally change. but sure enough the establishment started getting antsy about a leftist power grab and put perez in the race to oppose ellison, the problems with perez have way less to do with perez himself and way more to do with the reasons he was put in the race, by electing perez the message was sent that the establishment isn't ready to share the party with the left but they'll throw bread crumbs to the ones willing to fall in line. so now many progressives are writing off the dems as a lost cause and will proceed to pour their efforts into a third party which will draw support away from the dems when they really need it and trump administration will remain in office for a long time to come, this is especially frustrating because it didn't need to happen, we had the perfect opportunity to unify the party and the dnc just hosed themselves and everyone else over for no good reason.XyrlocShammypants posted:Lol all you want. 65 million people voted and very area specific results decided the election. Next election, with less scandal and demographic changes pressing on we can envision more than 65 million quite easily. If you want to pretend available data on voting and party affiliation don't exist for the benefit of your chicken-littling then go ahead. "demographics will DEFINITELY outpace voter suppression and broken electoral systems this time!" - democrats in every election for the next 30 years (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2017 19:06
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Covok posted:Don't give in and shed light on it so others don't also. But the response has been "Yes, I know, so therefore I won't vote!" I mean dude 
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Feb 26, 2017 19:06
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yellowyams posted:the argument that ellison and perez are both progressives so this doesn't matter is so stupid because this was way more about the vote than it was about the candidates. right now the left is mobilized as gently caress but are wary of the moderates who have a stranglehold on the party I agree, and I'm not happy that this happened. But it did. We have more fights ahead of us. Let's prepare for those, make sure we win as many of them as we can, and take over the party. I don't think it helps our cause any to bemoan what went down yesterday. We don't have the time or energy to spare for that IMO. (I make an exception for condemning Islamophobic DNC donors, though - that really does need to be called out)
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Feb 26, 2017 19:08
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Lightning Lord posted:But the response has been "Yes, I know, so therefore I won't vote!" I mean dude To think it all ended so quickly. Trump will win 2020 and repubs will sweep 2018 and 2020 guarnteed, and RBG will die in 2018 and be replaced by a super hardline republican cementing Republican rule until they end the republic and start the new Trump-American Empire. It's over, guys, because the left cannot unify.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:15
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Covok posted:To think it all ended so quickly. Trump will win 2020 and repubs will sweep 2018 and 2020 guarnteed, and RBG will die in 2018 and be replaced by a super hardline republican cementing Republican rule until they end the republic and start the new Trump-American Empire. The left seems to be pretty united on the ground, in protesting Trump and making Republicans' lives miserable. The big issue are those Democratic leaders who are out-of-step with people on the ground. It's up to us to either force them in line with us, or replace them with people who will listen to us.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:22
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Majorian posted:The left seems to be pretty united on the ground, in protesting Trump and making Republicans' lives miserable. The big issue are those Democratic leaders who are out-of-step with people on the ground. It's up to us to either force them in line with us, or replace them with people who will listen to us. The fact that the leadership had nothing to do with the recent Delaware election is pretty telling. I'd almost think that the people at the top of the Democratic party are being instructed by their donors to deliberately remain an impotent rump party now that the 1% have the entire government fully locked up.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:23
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I get that DWS and Brazile were major ratfuckers so this is symbolic and everything but the DNC just isn't as important as senate and house races, that's where energy should be. Especially with Perez/Ellison in place. Hold them accountable but let's focus on those drat seats. Save your outrage for if a Manchin wins an important race. But let's make sure that never happens. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 19:24
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Lightning Lord posted:I get that DWS and Brazile were major ratfuckers so this is symbolic and everything but the DNC just isn't as important as senate and house races, that's where energy should be. Especially with Perez/Ellison in place. Hold them accountable but let's focus on those drat seats. The issue is that it's rapidly reaching the point where it's fair to say that the DNC exists to deliberately sabotage House and Senate victories, because those get in the way of the Money. They ignore or choke out downticket races and the leadership is hopelessly incestuous and self-interested.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:28
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Lightning Lord posted:I get that DWS and Brazile were major ratfuckers so this is symbolic and everything but the DNC just isn't as important as senate and house races, that's where energy should be. Especially with Perez/Ellison in place. Hold them accountable but let's focus on those drat seats.  Those are the positions that will determine which direction the party takes going forward, not the DNC chairmanship.Oxxidation posted:The issue is that it's rapidly reaching the point where it's fair to say that the DNC exists to deliberately sabotage House and Senate victories, because those get in the way of the Money. They ignore or choke out downticket races and the leadership is hopelessly incestuous and self-interested. I don't think that's the case. DNC leaders get into politics because they want to win, not for the money. They would go into corporate law or whatever if it was just about money for them. They do want money, but money is a means to power, not an end in and of itself.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:28
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Covok posted:As a remimder, the right is actively trying to make the left fight itself. In this very thread, no doubt. Majorian posted:This decision probably isn't going to have that much of an effect by 2018. And no one has put forth an argument otherwise that I've seen, though they insist it's out there.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:30
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yellowyams posted:
"So perhaps it would be a good idea to have someone with experience fighting voter suppression in charge of the DNC? If only we had someone like that running for DNC chair. Also, gently caress Tom Perez. Corporate stooge."
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Feb 26, 2017 19:32
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Covok posted:Just gonna say again that the right is actively hoping we dissolve into infighting, which we are. This thread is a good example of how easy that is. Also people successfully baited over Trump's "congratulatory" tweet.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:34
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Covok posted:As a remimder, the right is actively trying to make the left fight itself. lol The "right" didn't field the least popular Democratic candidate in history. The right didn't elect Tom "Tom" Perez. The right didn't force Democrats to adopt neoliberal policies. The right didn't squander the last 8 years. XyrlocShammypants posted:No one expected bush Obama or trump four years before the election. No one will predict the next winner 4 years out this time. The (D) needs a strong candidate in 2.5 years time. It ain't 4 years from now anymore.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:38
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Condiv posted:it's gonna suck more now cause the dems decided they would like to bleed more voters Give me your time machine since you seem to know the future so well.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:41
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Frijolero posted:lol You know, you've come into the Trump thread numerous times to defend Trump. Why do you think I wouldn't know your agenda here?
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Feb 26, 2017 19:43
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Covok posted:As a remimder, the right is actively trying to make the left fight itself. The fact that the centrist elite couldn't even give this sliver of power to the left means that if there is to be any left at all the fight must be even harder. If it is worth it at all to fight for that party, I have my doubts.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:48
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Covok posted:You know, you've come into the Trump thread numerous times to defend Trump. Why do you think I wouldn't know your agenda here? What Trump thread?? Show us some goddamn proof if you're gonna make some loving accusations. I voted for Hillary and can show you my voter card with a (D) on it. EDIT: Cowards like you can't accept the fact that the Democratic Party needs some loving therapy. Progressives are trying to help and centrist pricks keep pushing them away. Frijolero fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 19:50
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Fados posted:The fact that the centrist elite couldn't even give this sliver of power to the left means that if there is to be any left at all the fight must be even harder. If it is worth it at all to fight for that party, I have my doubts. Lol its America, not Canada. You can't just pivot to the NDPs, you just have to try and fix the Dummycrats.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:53
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Lightning Lord posted:Lol its America, not Canada. You can't just pivot to the NDPs, you just have to try and fix the Dummycrats. I get it that's a problem with bipartisanism but these people only understand power, and if they don't have a real threat in terms of votes I don't think they will budge, it's a really hosed up system but one thing for sure, calls for unity are complete bullshit, 'unity' for the centrist is bending the knee and accepting corporate welfare.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:58
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Fixing the democratic party means expelling the likes of perez. Thats the whole problem lol
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Feb 26, 2017 20:00
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Frijolero posted:What Trump thread?? Show us some goddamn proof if you're gonna make some loving accusations. The fact you only started posting here after the election to say dems suck and we should vote 3rd party is damning in and of itself.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:06
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Calibanibal posted:Fixing the democratic party means expelling the likes of perez. Thats the whole problem lol Agree to disagree on that one but you can't and couldn't in this instance. In local elections though... BTW I think the true test of Perez is what happens with superdelegates. If they keep them I'll probably bay for his blood alongside you. Fados posted:I get it that's a problem with bipartisanism but these people only understand power, and if they don't have a real threat in terms of votes I don't think they will budge, it's a really hosed up system but one thing for sure, calls for unity are complete bullshit, 'unity' for the centrist is bending the knee and accepting corporate welfare. I agree, and the solution is to vote for progressives in local elections, not to eat your ballot. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 20:07
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Covok posted:The fact you only started posting here after the election to say dems suck and we should vote 3rd party is damning in and of itself. Post some proof you loving coward. Never advocated for 3rd party. Your bias is showing when the thing you're most scared of is disunity and 3rd parties. Frijolero fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 20:07
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Calibanibal posted:Fixing the democratic party means expelling the likes of perez. Thats the whole problem lol This is loving stupid and why some "leftists" will never get taken seriously.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:10
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Condiv posted:Here you go https://twitter.com/jstein_vox/status/835878035513556992 Right, that's a great bit of people bitter over a loss ranting crazily, now do something about a single person who it actually swayed. TheRat posted:*loses election* True, that is a good rundown of the Bernie brigade. What exactly did you learn from your loss other than "gently caress YOU! IT WAS A CONSPIRACY!" Condiv posted:I dunno why centrists pretend they care about minorities. It's clear from the DNC chair race they don't Noted white man Tom Perez. Condiv posted:Well, we didn't agonize until the dems started adopting supply-side economics and islamophobia. Perhaps they should drop those things so we can feel good voting for them again? It's shameful you wish to push your anti-immigrant agenda onto the Democrats constantly. Condiv posted:I'm sure the islamophobia coming from a major donor had no influence on the dems. Further, we should tolerate such islamophobic rhetoric cause it will put us closer to the center! They ejected a candidate right out the door for engaging in islamophobia against Ellisson you dense lump of poo poo. Wait wait, lemme guess. Vincent Tolliver was so ultra super progressive that the Dems had to get rid of him, and then they used their super secret mind control ray to make everyone think it was cause of Tolliver islamophobia. Condiv posted:
Condiv posted:it's gonna suck more now cause the dems decided they would like to bleed more voters You really need to stop calling yourself "the Dems". Zerilan posted:This is loving stupid and why some "leftists" will never get taken seriously. No no, see, Purity Points count for a million times the value of other votes. If you expel everyone but the most pure, then the system will ensure you win.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:25
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sorry, racists can't be reasoned with and i refuse to support a racist party. get back to me when the dems have ejected the islamophobes from their leadership
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Zerilan posted:This is loving stupid and why some "leftists" will never get taken seriously. So then tell me why no one seems to take the democrats seriously now.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:26
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I know you are but what am I?
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Feb 26, 2017 20:29
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https://twitter.com/emmettrensin/status/835603661841629184
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Feb 26, 2017 20:33
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Ok I do agree but does the massive boner Julian Assange has right now not matter? (btw I am a democratic socialist who was raised to basically worship Tommy Douglas, if it matters)
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Feb 26, 2017 20:37
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Is it a party or just a politician's guild??? Like I've said before every time you bring this up, I think Sanders should just be a Democrat rather than running as an independent. And, before I learned that he did run in the Democratic primary for the Senate seat in his state, and win, I was in favor of pulling his DSCC funding and running an actual Democrat there. Even in light of that fact, I'm still open to an argument that the Democrats should run the second-place finisher if Sanders won't accept the nomination - but that is a harder case to make since you're still loving over Vermont primary voters and it comes down to which of two bad choices hurts the party more on a national level. But either way, the fact is that unreliable caucus members hurt the party more than any weird poo poo Bernie is doing to get the (I) next to his name on the ballot. By the time you get around to forcing Sanders either into the fold or out of Congress, you'd better have taken care of the actual DINOs like Manchin and Heitkamp, or all you're really doing is targeting progressives. Bernie is a more reliable member of the caucus than either of those two.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:44
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You got your symbolic victory in Ellison being deputy chair. DNC Chair itself was an election, and for that you need votes.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:44
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Speaking of indies, how do you all feel about Angus King?
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Feb 26, 2017 20:45
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Frijolero posted:lol No. They need ~50 strong candidates 1 year from now.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:45
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mcmagic posted:No. They need ~50 strong candidates 1 year from now. And those candidates were never going to come from the DNC airdropping them in, even if Ellison had won and made Bernie his deputy chair.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:48
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Zerilan posted:You got your symbolic victory in Ellison being deputy chair. DNC Chair itself was an election, and for that you need votes.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:48
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Kilroy posted:Yep, you need the votes of DNC insiders who vote on the next chair, and most of them just signaled they'd rather see the party dead and buried before they compromise with the progressive wing. Remind me again why progressives and leftists should want anything to do with this poo poo show of a "political party"? It's a choice between a hard road and certain death.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:49
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Kilroy posted:Yep, you need the votes of DNC insiders who vote on the next chair, and most of them just signaled they'd rather see the party dead and buried before they compromise with the progressive wing. Remind me again why progressives and leftists should want anything to do with this poo poo show of a "political party"? But you don't want compromise, because compromise is the DNC reform Committee, compromise is Ellison as dep. chair, compromise is the 2016 platform. Compromise is clearly not what you want.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:51
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You still haven't answered my questions. Who was the first candidate put up who was too progressive, and Ellisson was a compromise for, and what bills have Republicans signed into law for their voting base in the last month that proves they respect their base and treat them right?
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Feb 26, 2017 20:51
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Lightning Lord posted:It's a choice between a hard road and certain death.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:52
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Zerilan posted:You got your symbolic victory in Ellison being deputy chair. DNC Chair itself was an election, and for that you need votes. So symbolic, they couldn't even be bothered to mention him in the results. https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/835679376800944129
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Feb 26, 2017 20:53
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