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alcharagia posted:Funny part is, Gaap isn't actually playable and Chiester 410 is the representative of all three of them. I hope Chiester 410 has only one extremely annoying, overpowered special move and nothing else going for her.
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Feb 26, 2017 04:11
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Fabulousvillain posted:I hope Chiester 410 has only one extremely annoying, overpowered special move and nothing else going for her. You know how in Street Fighter 2, Sagat does that thing where he just uses Tiger Shot for the entire round and either chip damages or times out the match 
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Feb 26, 2017 04:43
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e: nm
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Feb 26, 2017 05:15
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quote:Nice. Not quite "Do it. Launch the nukes, I dare ya!", but good enough for me.
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Feb 26, 2017 07:51
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Danaru posted:You know how in Street Fighter 2, Sagat does that thing where he just uses Tiger Shot for the entire round and either chip damages or times out the match I was thinking more of Pet Shop from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure on the PS1, same thing I know. Also hoping Battler fights like Phoenix Wright in MVC3 in that he wins by tripping over himself and shouting a lot.
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Feb 26, 2017 08:00
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  Video: Succession, Part 1 "Which means that... plus 20 more would make for a perfect 100, yeah?"As Ronove jumped backwards, somersaulting in midair, he violently wiped away the blood pouring from his nose. It had become, not blood, but petals of a red rose. The blood on his face was wiped off, and in its place... was a grin filled with a delight he hadn't felt in so many centuries that he couldn't remember.  "I, Ronove, will test to see whether your resolve is worth full marks, understand...?" "Shut up, shut up!! Come at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" BGM: Death (from Stupefaction)  "Whaaa?!" After being swallowed up by that, George fell out of a pitch-black hole that had opened up in the ceiling of the arbor.  The instant George, after being blown out of the arbor, thought that he'd be swallowed up by a rose bush... Another pitch-black hole opened there and swallowed George up. And this time, a pitch-black hole opened at Gaap's feet before her eyes, spitting a defenseless George out of it. At that time, Gaap had already finished the preparatory motions for the next reverse roundhouse kick.  "Ghh, what is... this...?" "Welcome back. *giggle*!"Right side of the head. Below the right armpit. Side of the right knee. As Gaap danced and spun like a small cyclone, she kept hitting him, left foot right foot left foot right foot, with successive roundhouse kicks. The fourth one became a sweep, cutting George's feet out from under him and making him fall down, but of course, there was no floor there, but a pitch-black hole, and George was swallowed up once again. Gaap once again spun around like a small cyclone. George was once again spat out from the ceiling of the arbor.  The sharp strike of the queen bee pierced the heavens like a rising cyclone. It kicked through George's lower chest as he fell from the ceiling... And then, time froze. George was pinned in midair by Gaap's raised leg... "Gah, mmph..."Still pinned in midair, George moaned... Then Gaap, with George still hung up on her foot, grinned.  "...I'll admit it. At least your attitude is that of an adult. But that's no good unless you have power to go with it. Did you know? They say you need three kinds of power to rule this world. The first one is influence. The second is wealth. Do you know what the last one is?" "I read it in a book. Force, right...?" "Correct. And that's where you're lacking."Gaap finally released George. She kicked upwards one more time, changing into another roundhouse kick and knocking him into a pillar. "Ghh? Ung... uhhhgh...!" "No one will fear a monarch without influence, without wealth, or without force. Kinzo possessed all three of those. That's why he reigned as a tyrant! If you're going to call yourself Kinzo's successor, try showing me a bit of that majesty, okay?" "...Come ooon, how long are you gonna sleep there? Stand up, okay? If you don't, you'll fall again, see?" BGM: Mortal Stampede  Ronove dodged skillfully, jumped back, and avoided Jessica's fist, but he still didn't strike back himself. Because of his dodge that was as rapid as a fluttering flag blown by strong winds, Jessica's fist wasn't even able to touch him. Amidst the sensation that her own blood was boiling, Jessica regained her offensive composure. Even though this room was large for a bedroom, it was a very cramped place to keep up such exaggerated dodges in for long. She calmly realized that and started using not just her fists, but her legs as well.  "...Hoh. Boxing with just your arms makes you but half a fighter. Your arms must be like the hot roar of a lion. And your legs must be like the cold snake closing in on its prey." "Snakes don't have legs!" "Pu ku ku, true."Jessica began cornering Ronove towards the wall with perfect footwork. She didn't let him get around her. Ronove's magnificent dodges looked flashy, but they needed a large footing. Once cornered, he wouldn't be able to dodge anymore...! Jessica knew the characteristics of her weapon, the brass knuckle, very well. This powerful weapon's most notable characteristic was how it didn't give the opponent a chance to defend. Even if they blocked with their arm, that arm would receive direct damage. If it hit the wrong way, it might even break the bone. So she cornered him. With this fist, she'd whittle away at this demon who'd lost any way to escape!!  "Looks like I've finally cornered you, right...? Where is everyone being held? Where's that drat geezer? You tell me everything, and I'll let you off with nothing more than plucking that mustache off, got it?" "That would be a problem. It does take me an hour every morning to set this." "Once you're in a cast, you won't even be able to do that, right?!" "...Whoops... Gggh." He tried to act as though it was no big deal, but it must have hurt a lot. Jessica grinned. Ronove smiled the same way, but twitched slightly. "...I see. This certainly does hurt." "Here's my last bit of advice. Cry and apologize." "That, I cannot do. It would ruin my image." "Then just crumple. Rapid fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiire!!!"Jessica's fists were buried into Ronove. But there was a resistance that seemed too hard... and the sound of breaking glass, which startled Jessica. At a glance, it looked like Ronove had caught Jessica's fist with his palm... That wasn't quite true. When Ronove opened his hand, a faint, purple, glowing barrier like a glass shield appeared, stopping the attack by a hair's breadth. Pulling herself together, Jessica let her fists fly again, but with a truly magnificent gesture, Ronove caught all of them...  "...Wh-What are you trying to pull...?!" "Is this the end? Are you simply going to attack all the time, while neglecting your defense?" "Huh?! Waaah!!"Ronove's palm shot to within a hair's breadth of Jessica's stomach. Jessica was knocked away by the purple shield, rolled backwards, and smashed her head on the bed. "My shield cannot be broken by a mere Human. Don't think that you'll ever be able to touch my body again." "...In that case, I'll just burst through that shield...!!" "Persistent, I see. Yes, a truly fitting spirit for the Successor. Perhaps I'll be your opponent for just a while longer. This is also part of an examiner's role. Pukkukukukukuku!" BGM: None  George was on a path in the rose garden, lying face-down in a puddle. The merciless rain beat down on him, so that it looked as though even the heavens were mocking him... "...Ahhahahahahahaha. Stand up, okay? You'll fall again, right?" "..."George stood up shakily. It seemed his spirit hadn't given in, but the damage done to his body was fairly significant. "Beg for your life. What you're doing now is the same as the fourth option of choosing nothing. You chose the third option, right? If you get down on your hands and knees and apologize, I'll forgive your rudeness towards me. Then, I'll guide you down to the dungeon. There, for your beloved Shannon and your own powerless life, you will kill the other hostages one by one." "...You can do it, right? You did boast about having that resolve. *giggle*giggle*giggle*." "..."George didn't answer... But his gaze was still obstinately resisting surrender. "...If you are too obstinate, then this time you really will fall to the deepest depths of the Abyss, okay...? *cackle*cackle*cackle*."Gaap's strength was evident. That was probably clear, even more than it was to George himself, to Shannon's group watching through the three-sided mirror...  BGM: Thanks for Being Born  "Nee-san..." "...If you didn't like me, you wouldn't have to fight with anyone, right, George-sama...? Then please, abandon me... Please forget me..."There was no way that voice could have reached George. But, even so, George answered.  "...Oh? Why not...?" "...Because that's... my resolve. I'll fight everything for Shannon's sake. And I'll make everything accept us... and bless us." "Hey, could you tell me something? Why are you willing to go so far for that furniture called Shannon? She's just a washout, isn't she? Rubbish furniture that couldn't even make a satisfactory waitress." "...I won't permit any more insults against the woman I love." "So what are you going to do about it? How could a weak kid like you resist me...?" "Loving someone is strength. Because I learned that, I was able to become strong. 'Shannon, I love you'. With just those words, I can stand back up, over and over again." "Shannon's in the dungeon, right? Professing your love to me won't-" "No. She heard. That's because it's love. Shannon can hear my words right now. The reason I can believe that... is because of love." "...You..."  "...G-George-sama..." "...I'm jealous. He's surpassed my husband in smooth talking." "...Th-That's youth for you."  "Does that weakness mean your love is also that weak? *giggle*giggle*! Even your love for your fiancée is weak. The way your parents died so quickly was weak. Everything about your life is weak." "...Shannon taught me about love and strength. If you're trying to measure my love towards Shannon by my strength alone... let me teach you about my love." "*giggle* So you say. I get it now. You're saying that the way you can still stand up after being kicked down so many times is the strength you received from Shannon. In that case, what did you receive from your parents, who got killed way too easily? ...?" BGM: None  "...N-No. Th-This is..."The thing blocking Gaap's vision... was the bottom... of George's... shoe...  BGM: Victima ProcipiatoriaIt had stopped right in front of the tip of Gaap's nose. "The thing I got from Mom was this kick."Several moments after, Gaap jumped back. Of course, that was too late. If George hadn't stopped, he would probably have caused the damage he'd announced.  "And what I got from Dad... is fortitude."Anger with a low boiling point isn't something to be truly feared. True anger is disciplined by fortitude. "...I recognize your violent method of declaring your intentions. I also see that you've slandered my fiancée and my parents' honor. And you have no intention of taking back what you said, yes...?" "...Y-You..." "I now understand your attacks more than enough, so maybe it's about time. Time to start fighting back." "Q-Quit prattling, foolish boy...!!"A pitch-black hole opened its mouth at George's feet. But George rapidly opened his legs, straddling the hole. The same move won't work again...! It was an extremely smooth dodge, and the upper part of his body didn't even quiver.  "Fortitude means calmly analyzing how your opponent will act, instead of losing your cool. Why? Isn't it obvious? Can't you guess?" "N-N-No, I can't..." George dashed. Pitfalls opened one after another, but George didn't step in them again. And, because he was persistent, he was able to reach Gaap a second time... "...Reverse roundhouse. Jaw fractured." "...!" Of course, while it centered directly on Gaap's face, it stopped a hair's breadth away. Perhaps she couldn't rely on pitfalls at this close range. Gaap kicked at George's shins as a diversion, and in the instant of weakness when he tried to deal with that, she aimed a kick at his stomach. It was a bee-like stab by her stiletto heel... But it sliced through the air where George no longer was. "...High axe kick. Collarbone fractured." "...Gah-"By Gaap's side, George calmly announced that, his foot still raised. If that monarch's heel had swung down, a collarbone fracture would probably have been the least of her worries. "This guy's... stronger than me... at close range...?! I need distance...!"She jumped backwards to open a large gap between them. She jumped and jumped and leapt and even flipped in midair, increasing that distance. It should have been magnificent, but for some reason, it was very similar to the movements of a small, scared animal. If she opened the distance between them, she'd be able to fight at the range that was her specialty, using a mixture of pitfalls and kicking techniques...! "You fool, you'll regret the pride that made you let three chances of defeating me slide... as you fall into the depths of the Abyss!! ...Huh?" It happened twice. This time, it didn't just stop a hair's breadth away, but scattered her bangs with its air pressure... "...Armada com martelo. The fundus of the eye fractured with the first strike. Cerebral contusion with the second strike." "...!!!"Gaap was too shocked to speak. George had closed in over all that distance in an instant, letting off a fearsomely nimble midair double-kick. Furthermore, with the accuracy and edge of a razor, it had cut nothing more than several of her bangs.  "I learned the power of kicks from karate, speed from tae kwon do, and freedom of range from capoeira." "...Mom was pretty fickle. But I've learned from studying various merits." "...Wh-Why don't you hit me...? You aren't going to say it's because I'm a woman, right?!!" "...You spoke of force as a monarch's third power. It looks like you still misunderstand the meaning of that force. In this situation, force doesn't mean hastily wielded violence. It refers to a deterrent, knowledge that if someone opposes the monarch, that person won't get away unharmed." "A deterrent, you say...?" These bare misses, which were more difficult than hitting directly, had all been performed so splendidly. Also, if George had wished it, any one of those would probably have crushed Gaap. He had, daringly, not done that. "You said it yourself, right? Force is the power to control. If you crush your opponent with force, you won't be able control them, right? A monarch's force is something that is only shown. He does not crush. He makes others surrender and adds them to his own fortune. If you start blowing bubbles, I won't be able to make you guide me to where the hostages are."Gaap had to admit it. She had to admit that George understood force in its truest sense...! "You'll take me to where everyone is. I would advise against resisting. I won't stop short next time." "...Ack!! Sorry, Lia. Lemme borrow your troops. This guy's too much for me alone to handle!!" "...Reinforcements? Should I take this to mean that you take back all that about me being weak?" "...I-I admit it. I made light of your... Human power..." "That's wrong. This is the strength of a man who's experienced love." "H-How can you say stuff like that with a straight face?!! Come, goats! Crush this man and turn him into meatballs! *giggle* These goats are stupid, but it looks like they at least have power. I'll turn you into a corpse that even your fiancée won't be able to recognize!" "You refuse to surrender and intend to continue fighting. Understood. Know that from now on, you will receive real harm proportional to your own attacks." "If you still plan on attacking me, prepare to sustain a great deal of damage."When George proclaimed that, a faint, red magic circle rose up around him. It seemed that George couldn't see it. However, Gaap, being a demon, could.  From a demon's perspective, that may have been magic. But in George's eyes, it was... determination. It was a determination filled with certainty, which would be merciless to anyone who wished to fight anymore... and which would force them to prepare for a significant counterattack. Determination with certainty... becomes magic.  Even though he was certainly catching them on the shield, he felt his arm get jarred, and it hurt. It should have prevented all physical damage. However, the damage from her fists was gradually being transmitted to his arm, piling up. Ronove tried to act like he was composed, so that this wouldn't be noticed...  "...No matter how much you attack, it is useless. Why can't you understand that you cannot break my shield?" "I'm not gonna stop hitting you just because it won't break. No matter how hard someone's heart is, if you keep on talking to them little by little, it'll eventually start to crack...! I believe it!! I believe that useless effort doesn't exist in this world!!" "That's why I can live... to the fullest!! If words will eventually make it through, then the same goes for fists...!! 'Give up' isn't written anywhere in my dictionary!!" She believed that they would surely reach his heart, that the day would come when he would stop calling himself furniture and disparaging himself, and that he'd step out into a new life. So Jessica didn't give up. She didn't lose heart...! "It's stupid, right? I'll bet a guy couldn't understand, right? A girl in love doesn't even think about giving up just because it's useless!!"At that time, Ronove certainly saw. He saw the reddish glow of light that encircled Jessica's fists.  Inside her unrelenting fists and determination... dwelled the power to succeed no matter what. From a demon's perspective, that was magic. Determination with certainty... becomes magic. "See? Nothing useless about it. Looks like my fists are making it through. Guard your arm, old guy." "...It seems I will have to get a little more serious. It appears it is as you said. In this world, nothing is useless." "That's right...! If you give up because something's useless, that's when your life ends...! You'll get through. You can be sure of that...!!"I'm an idiot, so this is the only way I can live, but even so, I'm sure I'll be able to teach Kanon-kun... about a new world someday!! So I'm not gonna lose heart in a place like this...!! I'll definitely defeat you... and save everyone!!  Krauss was repeating his useless effort to somehow open a hole between the metal bars. Useless... Nothing is useless. There's nothing... The lookout goats had been swallowed up by those black pitfalls and disappeared. Now was their once-in-a-lifetime chance. This was their only chance to break the bars...  "S-Stop it, it's impossible, Krauss-san! There's nothing we can do with our bare hands! Let's look for a tool, don't waste time on the impossible...!" "If you give up because it's useless, then it's all over. That's what my daughter said. Even if my body won't fit, as long as a small person like Shannon or Kanon can make it through...!!" "...Now that we've reached this point, action is more important than racking our brains. Let's work together, I'll do it too...! Kanon-kun, you're a boy, aren't you? Lend a hand...! Kanon-kun?!" BGM: F Style  "What? What are you planning...?" "...Okay, Nee-san? Just one more time, let's try struggling." "...Yes. I too... will struggle one more time. No, not just one more time... Over and over again."Jessica's voice had reached Kanon. It certainly had permeated into his cold, rock-like heart. And George's voice had reached Shannon. If the love he had shown was embodied by strength, she would have to respond in the same way. An incredible metal sound rang out. In the first flash, several metal bars were severed horizontally, and in the next flash, they were severed horizontally again, causing many metal bars to clatter to the ground like bamboo shoots cut by a sword. Krauss, Kyrie, and Nanjo didn't even have a clue what had just happened...  "...Doctor Nanjo, which way down the corridor goes to the mansion...?" "...O-Oh, of course! In and to the left, in and to the left...!" "Let's go, Krauss-sama. Virgilia-sama will notice us at any moment now." "What in the world... are you guys...?" "...We are..."When Kanon hung his head a little and faltered, Shannon slapped his shoulder, smiled, and spoke. 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 14:38
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If I didn't know there were another 4 episodes, I'd guess that everything was culminating to a resolution at this point.
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Feb 26, 2017 14:57
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I wasn't expecting this to turn into a shonen manga all of a sudden.
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Feb 26, 2017 16:05
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...what in the hell is this.
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Feb 26, 2017 17:13
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This is magic
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Feb 26, 2017 17:21
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Everyone's magic and Kanon and Shannon are good people who'll save everyone else's lives, obviously. (I have no idea. I guess George and Jessica are fighting human culprits, but as for how Kanon and Shannon broke the bars, who knows?)
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Feb 26, 2017 17:22
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The track that starts playing during the fight is pretty tight and super weird. I love it! The fights are fun, but what's interesting about this is that the culprit seems even more focused on gradually isolating Battler in this episode. I'm guessing Maria is just going to run off at "Beatrice's" behest, leaving him totally alone as the one POV we can trust here. If Shannon is behind this, it could be that she is trying to send him a message or punish him for something. Or... this is kind of a crazy thought, but maybe in a sense, she chose option 3 in that test, and her option 2 was Battler? Maybe not in a romantic sense, but at least we can concur that she put his birthdate in her PIN for a reason. This is unlikely, but I like the sense of parallel in that idea. Alternatively, this pattern could be setting him up to be a potential culprit. I can't see him killing his family, but maybe only because we're tied to his POV most of the time. It could be why he can't get the story straight.
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Feb 26, 2017 17:50
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Tender Child Loins posted:The track that starts playing during the fight is pretty tight and super weird. I love it! Battler has already been stated in Red to not be the culprit or an accomplice.
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Feb 26, 2017 18:10
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At least in the last game. Red cannot be across games, or it's clearly not true.
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Feb 26, 2017 18:12
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CottonWolf posted:At least in the last game. Red cannot be across games, or it's clearly not true.
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Feb 26, 2017 18:31
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SardonicTyrant posted:This is not true. There are some Red statements that would clearly carry across multiple games (chiefly the ones concerning doors and the number of humans on the island). Then, how do we know which they are? It's clear that "X is dead" cannot be a statement that is true for all time. And if we can be sure some statements don't carry through, and there's no specific demarkation of those that do and those that don't, I don't see how we can trust anything in red to be anything but "true at the time they were stated, in that reality".
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Feb 26, 2017 18:39
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CottonWolf posted:Then, how do we know which they are? It's clear that "X is dead" cannot be a statement that is true for all time. And if we can be sure some statements don't carry through, and there's no specific demarkation of those that do and those that don't, I don't see how we can trust anything in red to be anything but "true at the time they were stated, in that reality".
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Feb 26, 2017 18:50
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Actually, "X is dead" is a true statement about everybody except Eva. Did we get "Eva is dead" in red yet? I expect there are other red statements that would have to be stopped at the boundary of a particular episode, though. Might be worth a look to see.
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Feb 26, 2017 18:53
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MonsterEnvy posted:Battler has already been stated in Red to not be the culprit or an accomplice. So to jump off from that statement, why not? Why can't Battler in particular never be a culprit? What purpose does that serve for the mastermind of this scheme?
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Feb 26, 2017 18:55
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Well there's the simple fact that Battler hasn't been involved with the family for years.
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Feb 26, 2017 18:57
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Okay, collation time. I'm going to go through each episode, pull out bits I think might be important (I'll probably miss stuff) and lay out what we know about the murders in red, and what we think we know, but wasn't stated in red, as well as what we gain from Ange in the future. I'll put my comments at the bottom. It might take me a couple of days to catch up to where we are now. Episode 1 No red text here, so we're pretty rudderless. But here's what we know assuming that there was some accuracy in the narration. 4th of October At around 6:00pm, Maria receives a letter outside in the rose garden* from someone she claims to have been Beatrice. Rudolf admits to Kyrie and Battler that he suspects he will be killed that night.** After the discussion about the letter, Krauss shows Natsuhi one of Kinzo's bars of gold, presumably confirming the existence of the gold. Jessica gives Natsuhi a charm that protects against "magic". Shannon leads all the children to the guesthouse. At some time before 11pm, George proposes to Shannon. Shannon returns to the guesthouse. 5th of October At some point between 12pm and 6am, Krauss, Kyrie, Rudolf, Rosa, Gohda and Shannon are killed. Their faces smashed in. They are placed in the storehouse and the door is locked. The seventh magic circle of the sun is drawn on the door in a red substance. The same substance is also found on Natsuhi's door knob.*** Maria puts together the connection with the epitaph before anyone else does.**** Natsuhi gains Kinzo's gun. Kinzo is found to be missing, he may have been seen by Natsuhi at 9:00. Eva claims to have set up the door with a receipt to test whether it had been opened between 9:00 and when Natsuhi goes to check on Kinzo. Her opening the door breaks the "closed room".***** Hideyoshi and Eva leave to go to their room. At 7pm both are seen to still be alive. At some point after that, Genji and Kanon go to invite Eva and Hideyoshi to dinner. There are no markings on the door but a letter of the same style as the one from "Beatrice" is found under it. Kanon and Genji join Kumasawa and Nanjo. Kanon and Kumasawa get cutting tools from the storehouse, by the time they return to the door the first magic circle of the moon has been drawn on it.****** Eva and Hideyoshi are found inside with the door locked on the chain, both with stakes in their foreheads.******* A weird smell is found, Kanon and Kumasawa go ahead to investigate. They enter the boiler room. There is an altercation with a 3rd party. Kanon is left dead.********* A corpse with polydactyly is found in the incinerator. It may be Kinzo. At 8pm, the remaining people enter Kinzo's study. It autolocks. A letter appears on Kinzo's desk, midway through the conversation. Natsuhi forces Kumasawa, Nanjo, Genji and Maria to leave. They lock themselves in the Parlour. Around 11:30pm, they are murdered, with the killer somehow bypassing the locked door. Maria is told to face the wall and sing. The culprit calls Kinzo's room. Everyone heads down and finds the dead people and Maria. Natsuhi leaves the room reading a letter. Natsuhi is shot in the forehead. At 12pm, everyone dies. End Episode 1 *We have no evidence that she didn't receive it early than this, if "Beatrice" told her to say she got it at a different time than she actually did, she'd no doubt comply. **I really think we're missing something here, and how Rudolf knows this is the key to the entire mystery. I can't think where he would have found out though, there's no way he would have come to the island had he have known in advance. ***This implies that the killer is either Natsuhi, Jessica or someone who hidden in the corridor watching that exchange, elsewise they would not have known to make it look like something magic failed to get into Natsuhi's door. Pushes me towards Kumasawa and Kanon, as they're the two people who're known to be efficient at hiding and listening in. Though we might able to reanalyse this through the rubric of events in episode 4 later. ****This may be wholly unimportant, she may also know far more about what's going on than she lets on. *****Everything about this is horribly suspicious. Why would Eva set that up? How did Kinzo escape? I see three possibilities. Natsuhi never spoke with Kinzo in the morning, Kinzo was already gone. Kinzo himself escapes somehow. Where does the secret passage to Kuwadorian come out on the mansion end? It wouldn't be hugely suprising if it were his study. Also, Nanjo seems uncertain when he claims the existence on no secret exits from Kinzo's room. ProfessorProf posted:
*******This could have been performed in multiple different ways. The killer could have been waiting inside. It could have been Kumasawa or Kanon. It could have been murder-suicide. *********Okay, at this point, my grand theory for the episode is that Kumasawa's the killer. If we accept that everyone in the first six is dead, and the corpse is Kinzo's. She's the only person I can spot who has the opportunity for every murder. (Assuming everyone is dead who we think is dead.) It also fits into the larger theory I have in the back of my head that I'll be stress testing as I go through these. If it holds up, I'll post it in full at the end once I've got through to where we are now. It broadly involves people with off-island family members being blackmailed into taking part through threats against their family, with the Sumadera's doing the blackmailing so Ange inherits. idonotlikepeas posted:Actually, "X is dead" is a true statement about everybody except Eva. Did we get "Eva is dead" in red yet? I'll get to that eventually if it exists, but more generally, if we're being interpreting it broadly, "X is dead" becomes true for everyone eventually. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 19:22
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Tender Child Loins posted:So to jump off from that statement, why not? Why can't Battler in particular never be a culprit? What purpose does that serve for the mastermind of this scheme? Because the Red is true and does not need to be explained.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:40
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Tender Child Loins posted:So to jump off from that statement, why not? Why can't Battler in particular never be a culprit? What purpose does that serve for the mastermind of this scheme? I can't believe that Battler is actually a literal sockpuppet that everyone pretends exists to humor Rudolf's dreams of adultery.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Because the Red is true and does not need to be explained. But where's the fun in that? 
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Feb 26, 2017 20:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:Because the Red is true and does not need to be explained. I believe Tender Child Loins is asking about why it's set up so that such is the case, rather than the rationale for why that statement is made. Red Text doesn't require explanation, but it also doesn't defy interpretation.
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Feb 26, 2017 20:48
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SardonicTyrant posted:Well, there is no reason to assume the mansion doors change each game, so we can assume the Red statements about the mansion doors are true across worlds. The same would apply to the master keys, Kuwadorian mansion, etc. The master key number almost certainly wasnt true in the first episode, since Beatrice said she was reducing it. I don't think we have any reason to believe that red text carries across episodes. The events in each are different.
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Feb 26, 2017 21:03
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Classy Hydra posted:I believe Tender Child Loins is asking about why it's set up so that such is the case, rather than the rationale for why that statement is made. Yes, exactly. Why Battler when she could spare George and run off with him and all the money? Or even better, why not Maria? Why is Battler the one who must solve the mystery? witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 21:27
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Qrr posted:The master key number almost certainly wasnt true in the first episode, since Beatrice said she was reducing it. Qrr posted:I don't think we have any reason to believe that red text carries across episodes. The events in each are different. It's only my opinion, but I feel that certain Red statements have to carry across worlds or there's no basis to reason out what's going on. For example, if we assume the 18 person rule is only true, wrt the 3rd game, then we could say there was a 19th guest in the 1st and 2nd games and stopping putting any thought into our answers, and that's something the game keeps calling out the reader to avoid. SardonicTyrant fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 21:31
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Okay NOW I can confirm that George and Jessica are playable in the fighting game. You're still not allowed to look at it though!
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Feb 26, 2017 21:59
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Tender Child Loins posted:Yes, exactly. Why Battler when she could spare George and run off with him and all the money? Or even better, why not Maria? Why is Battler the one who must solve the mystery? I mean, the meta-fictional answer presumably has to be because he's a player on both levels. He couldn't be in the position to know that he's not an accomplice he were an accomplice. A combination of being the only person who denied the witch in the first game (presumably apart from the real culprit), and not having done it, allowed him to get into a position where he can no longer be allowed do it in any reality for the game to make sense. That assumes Beatrice is orchestrating it on the meta- level.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:18
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Rodyle posted:Okay NOW I can confirm that George and Jessica are playable in the fighting game. The biggest mystery left is why Gaap is not.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:57
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CottonWolf posted:I'll get to that eventually if it exists, but more generally, if we're being interpreting it broadly, "X is dead" becomes true for everyone eventually. I'm assuming a point of view immediately after the murders, although I suppose it isn't strictly necessary to assume that. I guess the question would be: is there a fixed point in time we can pick such that all red statements across episodes are accurate, or is that impossible? I think knowing whether the red text is fundamentally true or only true for a particular episode would be useful. Edit: Going back through it, episode two would appear to have a couple of examples early on; people entering the chapel, for instance, when in other versions of the story they might not have gone in there at all. So, yeah, definitely specific to the episode, although we can make logical inferences, like, the number of keys is probably not different in different stories, since the time period in which things are different seems to start right before everyone leaves for the conference. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 00:08
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Doc Hawkins posted:The biggest mystery left is why Gaap is not.  Although granted, the stakes I think are included.
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Feb 27, 2017 00:19
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Doc Hawkins posted:The biggest mystery left is why Gaap is not. I still don't know why Gaap is in this game.
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Feb 27, 2017 01:21
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Fabulousvillain posted:I still don't know why Gaap is in this game.
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Feb 27, 2017 01:26
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Fabulousvillain posted:I still don't know why Gaap is in this game. Because Goldsmith summoned her to instantly transport the rest of the sacrifices to his remote dungeon holding cell with her magical wormholes, weren't you paying attention?
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Feb 27, 2017 03:09
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CottonWolf posted:I mean, the meta-fictional answer presumably has to be because he's a player on both levels. He couldn't be in the position to know that he's not an accomplice he were an accomplice. I'm brought back to the list of Van Dine's rules for detective novels that idonotlikepeas posted a while back: "6. The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects." It's obvious that Battler is the "detective" tasked with solving the murders here. Even though he died at the end of every single episode so far, he was around to see most of the proceedings, and all of his POV scenes seem to be trustworthy—their own kind of red truth. (I think we can explain away his final scenes in episode 2 with the fact that he was smashed out of his gourd.) I think, if you look at the vast majority of Battler's scenes, you're seeing the "truth" of that scenario. As a POV character, he never sees or hears about magic, or goats, or weirdos wearing half of a lolita outfit. Case in point (this conversation takes place with Battler in the room): ProfessorProf posted:
The second part of that quote is all speculation, stage dressing put in to muddle the truth. It also feels significant that, once Jessica and George leave Battler's presence, the unverifiable magic shenanigans start happening to them. We can only trust interactions that piece-Battler participates in or witnesses himself. Now, usually in detective novels and shows, the detective character is some outsider with no stake in the case beyond the desire to solve it; in Umineko, this is decidedly not the case. Battler is an awful, incompetent detective, mainly—as is pointed out repeatedly—because of his personal investment in the people involved. So even though he is a very nice boy I have to flip that chessboard and keep wondering, why is Battler tasked with this? What motivation is there for the culprit (who I believe is Sayo) to get him in particular to recognize her role in their family's massacre? Shannon and Battler haven't really interacted much so far, so I don't really know if there's anything substantial we can use to explain her fixation. This might also be a weak link in the Shannon culprit theory? Regardless, whoever the culprit is seems to want Battler, and no one else, to figure out who they are and what really happened on Rokkenjima.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:13
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"...Y-Yes, he does. And they're probably... all armed..."
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Classy Hydra posted:Because Goldsmith summoned her to instantly transport the rest of the sacrifices to his remote dungeon holding cell with her magical wormholes, weren't you paying attention? Casting magic could have done that, seems like a waste to hire a new servant to press a button on a remote that's in your hand. So I'll repeat: I still don't know why Gaap is in this game, except to get owned by George and wear silly outfits.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:43
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Goldsmith can't do any other magic besides Summoning, as explained in his profile. If he wants to send his children and in laws to his torture dungeon he needs summon someone to do ot.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:48
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| # ? May 15, 2024 16:20 |
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I didn't say Kinzo can cast magic, I said casting magic could do it. As in anyone from the Witch's side should be able to do it, unless there's some reason only Gaap can teleport things. Which is hilarious if you ask me since an old colleague I haven't seen in decades summoning me from literally Hell just to move furniture for them would piss me off to no end.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:06
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