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Do you gain political capital every month like prestige?
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Feb 27, 2017 03:20
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Can someone just tell me what "pro-Israel" means here? I know what it means when the GOP says it. Is it the same or is it the nicer version where the Palestinians just lose their homes and leftist Israelis get punched?
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Feb 27, 2017 03:21
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Whoa whoa we can't "spend" political capital to pass laws that you want. Then we'll run out of political capital and we'll have to doff our caps and start passing Republican legislation. Don't worry we'll go into the next elections with so much political capital that all the Republicans will vote for us. *gets destroyed in midterm elections* Huh, the magic capital gods bestowed political capital on the Republicans, welp fair's fair nothing to do now but help them pass their full agenda, hey John Boehner how can I help you cut social security and Medicare?
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Feb 27, 2017 03:23
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yellowyams posted:
Now this, I will concede is actually bad. You're welcome, fellow leftists.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:25
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I have literally never seen anyone say political capital on this board without it being a mockery. You guys sure are good at beating up the same strawmen over and over and over.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:26
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i will say that i think perez is not a stupid man and he may be able to salvage this hot mess on some level if he reinstates the corporate lobbyist ban but i am very very skeptical he will do this considering the reasons he was put in the race.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:26
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7c Nickel posted:I have literally never seen anyone say political capital on this board without it being a mockery. You guys sure are good at beating up the same strawmen over and over and over. Mmmm. Archonex posted:
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. No concern for what policies would be smart or beneficial or help anyone at all. Just about courtesy and hurt feefees and making sure that the old guard doesn't feel sad if someone else has a better idea than them. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 03:29
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The American Prospect had a good profile of Tom Perez's tenure as Labor Secretary last year when he was being touted as a possible VP prospect. He was critical in pushing for the overtime rule, which Trump immediately dashed, but he still represents a break with the rightward political trajectory we've had since Carter. Obama picking him also represented the moment he finally stopped trying to compromise with Republicans. There's a reason Senate Republicans fought against him tooth and nail and the conservatives gnashed their teeth when he was confirmed back in 2013. Perez has also been very active in meeting and talking with progressive groups independent of the Democrats, like Fight for 15, which he's been very supportive of. I honestly think Perez could do well as an intraparty conciliator, given his experience working with disparate civil rights and labor groups, especially with Ellison as deputy where he can devote more energy into being a firebrand. I understand his support of the TPP is a liability, but the fact that he's been able to maintain union support despite that should be telling. If the Unions, and Ellison for that matter, are okay with Perez then I'm not going to waste anger on him. I've only got so much anger left in me and I'm reserving it for the rotted tangerine that killed my chance at overtime. http://prospect.org/article/subtle-force-tom-perez
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Feb 27, 2017 03:29
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Grammarchist posted:The American Prospect had a good profile of Tom Perez's tenure as Labor Secretary last year when he was being touted as a possible VP prospect. He was critical in pushing for the overtime rule, which Trump immediately dashed, but he still represents a break with the rightward political trajectory we've had since Carter. Obama picking him also represented the moment he finally stopped trying to compromise with Republicans. There's a reason Senate Republicans fought against him tooth and nail and the conservatives gnashed their teeth when he was confirmed back in 2013. too bad he had to lean on islamophobia to be elected. hopefully he gets to removing the shitheads that were spreading that filth around inside the dem party. the dem party is no place for racists and we should drive the racists like haim saban out so we can implement the needed social justice for muslims.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:33
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Nobody actively hates Perez. Its the how not the who.
temple fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 03:34
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7c Nickel posted:I have literally never seen anyone say political capital on this board without it being a mockery. You guys sure are good at beating up the same strawmen over and over and over. I used it to try and explain why just screaming into the wind about how things need to veer left and ____ group is bad is pretty loving useless when the establishment faction is more interested in the issue of power and maintaining it. But yeah, it's not that often used on here. You're right about that. And I get the feeling from reading some of the more disingenuous posts and the snickers from posters in the Trump thread laughing at some of the conspiracy theories getting touted around in this thread that it was wasted effort. So i'm pretty much going to do what others are doing and find another thread to post in for now. Archonex fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 03:34
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i've said it a few times but i guess i'll keep saying it, perez is not really the issue himself, i think he will probably be a much better dnc chair than the people before him, but there were specific motives in pitting him against ellison and his election sends a clear message to a group we absolutely can't afford to keep driving away.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:37
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Grammarchist posted:The American Prospect had a good profile of Tom Perez's tenure as Labor Secretary last year when he was being touted as a possible VP prospect. He was critical in pushing for the overtime rule, which Trump immediately dashed, but he still represents a break with the rightward political trajectory we've had since Carter. Obama picking him also represented the moment he finally stopped trying to compromise with Republicans. There's a reason Senate Republicans fought against him tooth and nail and the conservatives gnashed their teeth when he was confirmed back in 2013. Thanks for this, should calm down some reasonable people. So if the anti-Israel stuff from Ellison tanked his chances for chair, basically it was about optics and getting a similar progressive guy as chair without facing all that Islamophobia and pro-Israel poo poo. I get it and all, just pathetic how much of a wedge Israel is in our politics. Best of luck to Perez, its going to be especially challenging to get that Bernie wing into the Democrat fold again. They are all losing their poo poo on twitter and elsewhere.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:46
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Comrades, we must remained united in our angrier and protest against the fake president. Perhaps it is true that things have not gone as we would like, but through primaries these can be changed! And they will be changed! And we will be the ones to do it! Our angrier is our unity and our angier is not against just Trump or Republicans, but against the corporatism and facism that has plagued our Republic for far, far too long. We must unite, we must use our votes to primary all the centrists, and we must change the establishment! Our victory is not just Trump losing office, our victory is the end of the Right-Wing, the end of corporate control, and the end of big money in politics! That is our goal and, while the democrats are not perfect for this, they are the perfect vessel to cut apart and frakenstein into a force for socialism and good!
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Feb 27, 2017 03:49
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Homeless Friend posted:You still hung up on those wikileaks or somethin?
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Feb 27, 2017 03:49
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Covok posted:Comrades, we must remained united in our angrier and protest against the fake president. Perhaps it is true that things have not gone as we would like, but through primaries these can be changed! And they will be changed! And we will be the ones to do it! Our angrier is our unity and our angier is not against just Trump or Republicans, but against the corporatism and facism that has plagued our Republic for far, far too long. We must unite, we must use our votes to primary all the centrists, and we must change the establishment! Our victory is not just Trump losing office, our victory is the end of the Right-Wing, the end of corporate control, and the end of big money in politics! That is our goal and, while the democrats are not perfect for this, they are the perfect vessel to cut apart and frakenstein into a force for socialism and good! 
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Feb 27, 2017 03:54
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Kilroy posted:He thinks they're the main reason Hillary lost and wants anyone who disagrees purged from the party. I just don't understand what this achieves or why it's important. Like, he keeps yelling RATFUCKED and whether you agree with him or not he yells RATFUCKED over and over. Then the conversation goes somewhere else and he comes back a page later and yells RATFUCKED. HEY GUYS, GUYS, RATFUCKED. HOW DARE YOU. I assumed this was just his way of saying "the democratic party is perfect and can only be failed" but he also seems to be capable of at least some introspection, so I just don't loving know.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:01
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Covok posted:Comrades, we must remained united in our angrier and protest against the fake president. Perhaps it is true that things have not gone as we would like, but through primaries these can be changed! And they will be changed! And we will be the ones to do it! Our angrier is our unity and our angier is not against just Trump or Republicans, but against the corporatism and facism that has plagued our Republic for far, far too long. We must unite, we must use our votes to primary all the centrists, and we must change the establishment! Our victory is not just Trump losing office, our victory is the end of the Right-Wing, the end of corporate control, and the end of big money in politics! That is our goal and, while the democrats are not perfect for this, they are the perfect vessel to cut apart and frakenstein into a force for socialism and good! this but unironically
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Feb 27, 2017 04:03
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yellowyams posted:this but unironically I wasn't being ironic.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:03
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that's some hella prose then
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Feb 27, 2017 04:08
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Okay to be fair, the real way to deal with money in politics is legislation, not internal rules that only disadvantage the good guys.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:18
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https://twitter.com/freddoso/status/835590478988877824 We Did Nothing Wrong, There Is No Problem
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Feb 27, 2017 04:28
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Lightning Lord posted:Can someone just tell me what "pro-Israel" means here? I know what it means when the GOP says it. Is it the same or is it the nicer version where the Palestinians just lose their homes and leftist Israelis get punched? it's where you wring your hands about how settlements are bad but insist that israel's character as a jewish state is non-negotiable and that BDS must be condemned in the strongest terms also, Left Wing Antisemitism
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Feb 27, 2017 04:31
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yellowyams posted:that's some hella prose then I've gotten really good at that. icantfindaname posted:https://twitter.com/freddoso/status/835590478988877824 You could also take that as "we are going to change things." Out of context, it's hard to judge.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:31
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Is the position of Deputy Chairman new? I can't say I'd ever heard of it until Perez appointed Ellison to it. I'd assume it would be to serve as a front man for the party representing it on media panels and the like while Perez does the less glamorous job of wrangling opposing interests and headhunting candidates to run outside cities. But I'm not sure. By all outward expression, Ellison seems content, so that's kinda where I'm leaning. It wouldn't be the first new positions that Democrats have put in place to accommodate demand for more progressive influence. The House introduced vice-ranking committee posts last month that are reserved for younger representatives so that they can influence party strategy while learning the ins and outs of congressional chicanery. As obvious as the bone may be, it does make sense to make sure your energetic members don't recreate the Tea Party's ironic sabotage of the infamous "2011 Grand Bargain". Roll Call had a story on the vice-ranking posts a while back, but it flew under the radar what with the whole bullet train to hell we're all riding. http://www.rollcall.com/news/democrats-said-let-vice-ranking-members
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Feb 27, 2017 04:34
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icantfindaname posted:israel's character as a jewish state is non-negotiable Not necessarily, but icantfindaname posted:BDS must be condemned in the strongest terms certainly anything that would interfere with Israel's ability to do whatever the hell it wants needs to not happen, so it's a distinction without a difference.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:36
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icantfindaname posted:https://twitter.com/freddoso/status/835590478988877824 Oy vey. Covok posted:You could also take that as "we are going to change things." Out of context, it's hard to judge. Market corrections aren't caused by a change to the relevant security, just people realizing it's over- or under-valued. So at best Perez could mean he's going to improve Democratic messaging. But corrections are more often negative so he could be saying people will just realize how lovely the Republicans are.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:37
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yellowyams posted:
Reminder: this is what Ellison backed down from his pledge to ban lobbyist donations to endorse - to have the DNC vote on whether to ban lobbyist donations.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:40
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Oy vey. That's a losing strategy. People never learn unless taught. We need to do messaging in his stead if he is going to impotent and pathetic like that.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:40
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icantfindaname posted:it's where you wring your hands about how settlements are bad but insist that israel's character as a jewish state is non-negotiable and that BDS must be condemned in the strongest terms Oh right Covok posted:I wasn't being ironic. I like that a dude I used to think of almost exclusively as the 13th Age Guy prior to all this is someone I now think of as the Lord of the Full Communists. It is pretty great. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 04:49
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icantfindaname posted:https://twitter.com/freddoso/status/835590478988877824 Oh my Christ that is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Even if he means "we need change" it is still completely retarded. Oh my god it feels like I just got kicked in the rocks.
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Feb 27, 2017 04:58
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Personally I don't really have a problem with Perez himself, it's just that his sudden parachuting into the race when Keith Ellison was functionally the same is a sign that a lot of DNC people are so terrified of the return of any kind of mass politics that they will do anything to prove that they are still the big strong patricians who control the levers of power. They don't really have a plan so much as to keep screaming "EVERYTHING IS FINE" and deny every sign that the old neoliberal political order is totally disintegrating. I'm pretty sure that the ultimate goal the Republican Party has now is to instate a managed democracy somewhere in-between Apartheid South Africa and the Portuguese Estado Novo. Too much of the current Dem establishment doesn't really get that this isn't business as usual, and think that all we have to do is just reorganize a little bit for 2018 and not change any policies or strategists. If we're just going to wait for the DNC to turn itself into the final line of defense against fascism in just one year, then we're wasting valuable time. Perez/ Ellison have good proposals for reform, but I don't know if they will actually be able to do many of them, what with Clinton apparently burning a several-million dollar hole in their budget, along with a lot of old-guard incumbents being naturally resistant to having their local machines poked at. In the meantime it's best to chill out about the DNC itself and work on local downticket races and primarying the worst incumbents, and also creating robust political organizations outside of electoral parties. Anyways, I know this is a Rite-Aid drive-thru pharmacy and not a Taco Bell, I was just messing with y'all
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Feb 27, 2017 05:02
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Grammarchist posted:Is the position of Deputy Chairman new? I can't say I'd ever heard of it until Perez appointed Ellison to it. I'd assume it would be to serve as a front man for the party representing it on media panels and the like while Perez does the less glamorous job of wrangling opposing interests and headhunting candidates to run outside cities. But I'm not sure. By all outward expression, Ellison seems content, so that's kinda where I'm leaning. it worries me that they think crumbs like this are what progressives want. the deputy thing feels patronizing when everyone was looking towards the vote to determine whether they had a place in the party. i can't convince a single millennial that they should stick around. like those things are better than nothing but they're not going to convince leftists they should stay in the party and struggle with the power dynamics to address the issues they need to address when they can just run their own party and have their voices heard without being undermined.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:10
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The Dems are going to change nothing and assume 2016 was a weird fluke. E: VVV Look, I'd never vote Republican, but if Hillary ran again I'm sure as hell gonna be mad. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 05:12
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WampaLord posted:The Dems are going to change nothing and assume 2016 was a weird fluke. I'm less scared of this actually being true than it becoming a tool to get leftists to suppress their own votes for the GOP.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:14
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Reminder: this is what Ellison backed down from his pledge to ban lobbyist donations to endorse - to have the DNC vote on whether to ban lobbyist donations. Even if he was chair he wouldn't have the power to unilaterally make that decision. yellowyams posted:it worries me that they think crumbs like this are what progressives want. the deputy thing feels patronizing when everyone was looking towards the vote to determine whether they had a place in the party. i can't convince a single millennial that they should stick around. like those things are better than nothing but they're not going to convince leftists they should stay in the party and struggle with the power dynamics to address the issues they need to address when they can just run their own party and have their voices heard without being undermined. If they can't accept that they aren't the majority bloc in the Democratic Party and that makes them leave it only ensures they will never have any relevance in politics ever. It also means that they ignored what Sanders has repeatedly said or they simply don't care.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:21
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Like I honestly don't understand how after a fuckup as big as the 2016 election, how do you not just turn to Bernie and go "What should we do?"
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Feb 27, 2017 05:24
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WampaLord posted:Like I honestly don't understand how after a fuckup as big as the 2016 election, how do you not just turn to Bernie and go "What should we do?" have you ever even been on a corporate jet on your way to an all expenses paid fundraising weekend at a 5 star resort, bro?
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Feb 27, 2017 05:28
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Getting young people to vote is pretty much the most important thing possible and yes, regardless of your feelings on Tom Perez himself, this was a bad blow for that because of the way less experienced voters usually process politics. I really am frustrated despite liking Perez and thinking he will be a good leader. But I think the way to work with that is to provide a constant "Here's why this isn't as bad as you think" message, one crafted not to patronize or be a repeat of "Actually, America Is Still Great". I really am terrified that a shitload of young people are going to just fold up and consume their ballots now.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:31
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Lightning Lord posted:I really am terrified that a shitload of young people are going to just fold up and consume their ballots now. That is exactly what's happening. I've had to argue to convince a few youngins (by that I mean people still in their very early 20s) to stick with the party for 2018 at least. Fortunately, they seem to be listening to me, but I don't know about the other few million of them.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:36
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