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Ape Fist posted:The whole 'Capitalism will always provide new avenues of profit for those clever enough to pursue them' thing is eventually going to run itself dry. It's like the silicone valley boffins scoffing at people in the manual sector because they're not participating in the New Economy, i.e. the I.T. sector. But the reality is that these new avenues of profit require an increasingly intelligent and mentally dynamic population this is good and bad. It might seem like some Facebook tier 'THEY'RE KEEPING US STUPID FOR A REASON, MAN.' logic but honestly it has largely benefited human society as a whole to have large swathes of loving idiots roaming around being able to do grunt work and this paradigm is increasingly becoming useless especially in the advanced post-digital societies. i haven't thought about the second one. all i know is that first option will never ever happen. idiot americans would rather die than accept "communism" and rich motherfuckers would rather kill us than institute it.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:23
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Professor SJW posted:eat the rich and destroy their robots is what i'm saying. start with wendy's. they just announced they are installing self-service kiosks at 6,000 locations. The real automation problems are the types where some robots or system can do the same work as a department does during an 8 hour shift, but where the cost of the system and maintenance is less than their benefits, future promotions, or management hours to keep track of them. They might take 24 hours to do the same 8-hour job, but as long as it's less than the labor hours...
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Feb 27, 2017 13:25
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Kjoery posted:do we really have to destroy them, though? i really think either basic guaranteed income and eating the rich via taxation or governments just controlling the robots themselves for ~*the people*~ is the solution the rich wont let us tax them or take their robots. corporations will soon have more money and power than governments, if they don't already
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Feb 27, 2017 13:25
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Knight posted:These are funny because while they do chip away at part-time hours, I think kiosks are pretty neutral. Someone still has to observe them, they have constant slow-downs because a cashier works to actively hurry up orders during rushes (the same way groceries are bagged faster by employees than customers), and a lot of people plain won't deal with them. A number of times I'll get at the end of a line before realizing there's a kiosk available that everyone is avoiding and skip the rest of them to enter my own order. The other people would rather wait in line for a person. even the kiosk thing is bad. it still cuts a bunch of human jobs. and pretty soon the cooking end will be fully auto and each store will have just like 1 human working to monitor stuff. thathuman will have degrees and be highly skilled and it wont be a job a lot of people can get
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Feb 27, 2017 13:27
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Professor SJW posted:i haven't thought about the second one. all i know is that first option will never ever happen. idiot americans would rather die than accept "communism" and rich motherfuckers would rather kill us than institute it. Bill Gates is pushing for the second one. It's his Capitalist Alternative to Universal Income: The re-purposing the workforce into Humanitarian Sciences. I have no idea how Bill intends to turn a profit through caring for the sick and the elderly. I assume possibly by harvesting their grey matter post-death for his new advanced sentient bio-neural networks? 
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Feb 27, 2017 13:27
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Professor SJW posted:the rich wont let us tax them or take their robots. corporations will soon have more money and power than governments, if they don't already realistically speaking we're going to be cyberpug resistance hackers existing in a climatefucked world winning small victories against megacorps from our trump-era liberal bunker vvvvv yeah, like i said, small victories. really, really small victories. crime weed fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 13:29
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hacking is way lamer than it looks on tv tbh. it's mostly just finding football stadiums with web-facing mechanical control interfaces. so your great cyberpunk resistance movement largely conveys its message by turning street lights on and off to the sound of aphex twin
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Feb 27, 2017 13:31
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Ape Fist posted:Bill Gates is pushing for the second one. It's his Capitalist Alternative to Universal Income: The re-purposing the workforce into Humanitarian Sciences. I have no idea how Bill intends to turn a profit through caring for the sick and the elderly. I assume possibly by harvesting their grey matter post-death for his new advanced sentient bio-neural networks? lol i know he wants to tax robot labor. which, again, i dont see corporations letting that happen. it's not like we can vote for our best interests. a bunch of us are retards and money interests control legislature. we will literally have to mass riot and start murdering the wealthy in the streets to change things, but we better do it before the police and military are automated because lol you can't convince a drone to switch sides and fight for the downtrodden masses
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Feb 27, 2017 13:32
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Kjoery posted:realistically speaking we're going to be cyberpug resistance hackers existing in a climatefucked world winning small victories against megacorps from our trump-era liberal bunker oh poo poo how did you read my mind  Burg Pug Power!!!
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Feb 27, 2017 13:33
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Professor SJW posted:even the kiosk thing is bad. it still cuts a bunch of human jobs. and pretty soon the cooking end will be fully auto and each store will have just like 1 human working to monitor stuff. thathuman will have degrees and be highly skilled and it wont be a job a lot of people can get
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Feb 27, 2017 13:36
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You can just shoot them The rich folk I mean You dont need to hack em Shoot em in the head
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Feb 27, 2017 13:44
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Knight posted:I find it kind of depressing to think that such a large portion of the population can't do more than repetitive tasks in a day. back when i was a naive spawning, i figured that technology would help supplement our cognitive deficiencies/flaws (we have so many dumb & cool glitches in our evolutionary programming), but thats looking more and more to not be the case (for the most part). the internet has, in fact, appeared to exasperate our susceptibility to stuff like confirmation bias -- for whatever belief or stance you take, you'll always be able to find an article supporting it on the 'net if you dig deep enough
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Feb 27, 2017 13:44
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Have you ever tried to use a food kiosk
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Feb 27, 2017 15:08
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Knight posted:Can't kill the demand for such services, though. The ability to place an order for pickup through a website or app does the same thing, and a certain percentage of people is always going to prefer the machine the same way a certain percentage is going to want friendly face-to-face service. I agree that the behind-the-counter stuff is the real threat. I find it kind of depressing to think that such a large portion of the population can't do more than repetitive tasks in a day. i read an article that millenials are such spergs they would rather deal with a touch screen than a person. of course none of them stop to consider that this poo poo will doom our society
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Feb 27, 2017 15:10
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Have you ever tried to use a food kiosk no does it suck? seems like it would suck i hate the self checkout at the grocery store
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Feb 27, 2017 15:10
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It breaks my socialist heart that some of my supposed leftist allies can't even imagine an America free from the grips of unfettered capitalism.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:12
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Professor SJW posted:no does it suck? seems like it would suck It's very loving complicated, nothing like the self checkout
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Feb 27, 2017 15:13
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Professor SJW posted:i read an article that millenials are such spergs they would rather deal with a touch screen than a person. of course none of them stop to consider that this poo poo will doom our society Just like comic books and rock and roll, grandpa!
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Feb 27, 2017 15:13
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Smeed posted:Just like comic books and rock and roll, grandpa! yeah but comic books and rock and roll didnt take the jobs of 40% of the workforce
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Feb 27, 2017 15:20
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i should quit my journo job and become a plumber or electrician. people always need those and they probably won't get automated. of course everyone is hosed when the economy collapses
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Feb 27, 2017 15:25
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Professor SJW posted:yeah but comic books and rock and roll didnt take the jobs of 40% of the workforce You don't know that. There may have been 40% more jobs had comic books and rock and roll hadn't been created.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:26
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Professor SJW posted:i should quit my journo job and become a plumber or electrician. people always need those and they probably won't get automated. Ugh god yes, what the gently caress are you even thinking
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Feb 27, 2017 15:26
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Ugh god yes, what the gently caress are you even thinking i wasn't thinking. i was drunk all through high school and college and then after college and right up to last night. also this morning.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:29
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You can be drunk as an electrician and go out in a bad rear end way tho
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Feb 27, 2017 15:29
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what's the trump hosed status on this fine day?
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Feb 27, 2017 15:32
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still president? heh, dude is hosed
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Feb 27, 2017 15:32
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Professor SJW posted:i should quit my journo job and become a plumber or electrician. people always need those and they probably won't get automated. Every instance of "won't get automated" should be replaced with "will get automated later than most other jobs." Eventually every job doable by a human will be doable by a machine, unless we blow ourselves up before we reach that point. I'm sure that a number of years ago that you could still count on your fingers, 99%+ of people thought that a journalism job could never be automated, and yet, here we are. It simply does not make sense to look at any job and say "a machine could never do this!" And I say this as a programmer who thinks the famous "Programming Sucks" piece is an accurate description of how broken software development is, as a whole. All it takes is breaking down tasks into small enough chunks, and then building systems to handle those chunks. Given enough time and capital, it will happen with everything. Sure, there will always be people who will resist consuming products or services produced by machines. There are people today who won't buy factory bread because they prefer "artisanal" bread made by humans (these people are almost always gigantic douchebags, I'd like to point out). But as long as 95% of humans don't care that their blowjob is being performed by a machine that just looks and feels like a big-tittied woman, that still spells doom for any kind of economy where the majority of people need to actually be working. Also keep in mind that you're not the first person to think of the trades. You're not the millionth person either. Not everybody can be a plumber. There will eventually be a glut of plumbers, in which case you'll need to be the best goddamn plumber around to get any work. This is pretty much the same thing that's happened in software dev, which is why programmers are a dime a dozen, but only a small percentage of them know what recursion is and how to do it properly. But, as you say, even if you do gain the skills to suck poo poo better than every other poo poo sucker around, the capitalist economy will collapse long before plumbing becomes the next thing on the automation chopping block. Basically what I'm trying to say is that we're all hosed and LOL at Trump being President. Tinestram fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 15:46
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actually i think everything will be more or less alright and technological progress is good and innovation will help humanity solve its current problems hth
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Feb 27, 2017 15:49
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Why is everyone sitting around worrying about robots taking the jobs you don't even have
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Feb 27, 2017 15:50
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:actually i think everything will be more or less alright and technological progress is good and innovation will help humanity solve its current problems hth
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Feb 27, 2017 15:59
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Professor SJW posted:i wasn't thinking. i was drunk all through high school and college and then after college and right up to last night. also this morning. My man.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:27
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runupon cracker posted:Every instance of "won't get automated" should be replaced with "will get automated later than most other jobs." Eventually every job doable by a human will be doable by a machine, unless we blow ourselves up before we reach that point. I'm sure that a number of years ago that you could still count on your fingers, 99%+ of people thought that a journalism job could never be automated, and yet, here we are. It simply does not make sense to look at any job and say "a machine could never do this!" And I say this as a programmer who thinks the famous "Programming Sucks" piece is an accurate description of how broken software development is, as a whole. All it takes is breaking down tasks into small enough chunks, and then building systems to handle those chunks. Given enough time and capital, it will happen with everything. thnk you for confirming that we are hosed
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Feb 27, 2017 16:36
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new phone who dis posted:My man.  my liver hurts
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Feb 27, 2017 16:37
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Why is everyone sitting around worrying about robots taking the jobs you don't even have at this point ive moved on to worrying about getting in a good post apocalyptic cannibal gang.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:39
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Professor SJW posted:at this point ive moved on to worrying about getting in a good post apocalyptic cannibal gang.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:47
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:actually i think everything will be more or less alright and technological progress is good and innovation will help humanity solve its current problems hth that's probably because you're conflating technological progress with automation when they're really two different things hth
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Feb 27, 2017 16:50
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:Why is everyone sitting around worrying about robots taking the jobs you don't even have because part of the reason why many people don't have jobs is because robots have already started taking jobs
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Feb 27, 2017 16:51
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runupon cracker posted:because part of the reason why many people don't have jobs is because robots have already started taking jobs https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...m=.9cfd70a9f6fd This interview in the Washington Post (by some miracle) says automation has nothing to do with it and it's all due to globalization
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Feb 27, 2017 16:57
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in which spunky doesnt understand neural nets, machine learning, and basic capitalism
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Feb 27, 2017 17:02
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Spunky Psycho Ho posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...m=.9cfd70a9f6fd That interview is only focusing on the manufacturing sector, it's absolutely not looking at the global picture. Robots are actually taking over all sectors, now even day traders or cashiers are in competition with algorithms. What I'm saying is blame the loving robots
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Feb 27, 2017 17:09
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