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Brainiac Five posted:And if anyone had ever said this, this would be an excellent rejoinder, motherfucker. Look I just don't see why it should be brought up right after someone else brings up reaching out to all the or based on collective need.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:19
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Brainiac Five posted:This is one of the coolest things about Bernouts, that a post like this will be resolutely ignored unless someone makes a huge stink about it, demanding and bullying people to denounce it, and then they do so reluctantly, and no lesson is learned and the exact same post is made again a week later. Some of y'all really need to read Combat Liberalism, for real. I genuinely want to know, where are these "Bernouts" and "Berniebros" that are "bullying people"? You use this regularly as a pejorative, but it seems so petty. I think "Clintonistas" is stupid too, but "bernout" appears to be literally opposite of reality. These people who were Bernie supporters appear to be more politically engaged now and are attending town halls, donating, going to protests, and trying to push the Democratic Party into more progressive territory and bring new people on board. The Clinton wing appears to mainly be taking about how close the election actually was, that people need to stop whining, and that if we push the course and compromise more we can pull out the victory we deserved 2016 but were denied because of technicalities. Even though I am fine with Perez and Ellison is deputy, it was an easy symbolic olive branch to unite the progressives and centrists. Instead an Obama appointee was pushed to the forefront by the old guard. "Bernouts" being vocally upset by this is not being petulant and uncompromising. It's actually asking "Why the gently caress was this power play even necessary? We were uniting pretty nicely under Ellison a couple of weeks after the election, and now this happens." It seems like the ones not willing to compromise or try to join together are the ones still making GBS threads all over Bernie and his fans to the benefit of no one.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:19
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Fulchrum posted:And that's why America elected the person in the race who had even a clue how to, or even a want to, fix these things, using even a tiny bit of brainpower, and didn't fall for just some orange shitstain screaming that America was gonna win so big. "We're the party that stands for economic equality and civil rights." *Loses the election* "YOU'RE ALL loving CHIMPS! LITERAL ANIMALS!" 
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Feb 28, 2017 02:19
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Brainiac Five posted:You're the one who said antiracism and feminism cost Hillary the election. JeffersonClay posted:Lots of poor white Americans are concerned about brown people stealing all the jobs and welfare so depending on your approach those two goals can actually conflict quite a lot. If you don't plan on changing that, yes, it would conflict. Here's a crazy idea; try changing that. It's the economy, stupid.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:20
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Crowsbeak posted:But not all. So to write them off as a whole doesn't actually help us. Do we really want to have yet another round of "white leftist argues racism isn't a big deal"?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:22
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RasperFat posted:I genuinely want to know, where are these "Bernouts" and "Berniebros" that are "bullying people"? Hold up there, I'm the one that would be bullying people, to get them to acknowledge that lovers of that jackass pedophile shouldn't probably be supported by people who want a strong left or even just basic human decency in the left wing of the Democratic party. Y'all probably should be less concerned with symbolism and more concerned with reality, though, given how many of you repeatedly insist that practical considerations don't matter. KwegiboHB posted:If you only want to put words in my mouth, I'll just not bother with you. You replied to "being actively anti-sexist is important" with "this is why Hillary lost!!!!!", motherfucker. Learn how to communicate better.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:24
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KwegiboHB posted:
Great, I'll just be over here building the gently caress mothering re-education camps that we'd need to build to purge something that intrinsic to a huge number of Americans. Oh, and rebuilding all entertainment from the ground up so there is nothing to reinforce those biases afterwards.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:25
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Fulchrum posted:Do we really want to have yet another round of "white leftist argues racism isn't a big deal"? You accusing anyone of racism is funny considering the racism you showed to Keith Ellison. I would argue if we are going to deal with it. We need to first ensure there are no racist centrists in the democratic party.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:25
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Fulchrum posted:Great, I'll just be over here building the gently caress mothering re-education camps that we'd need to build to purge something that intrinsic to a huge number of Americans. Oh, and rebuilding all entertainment from the ground up so there is nothing to reinforce those biases afterwards. Ok, that one is my fault. I meant more jobs. Sorry.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:26
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Crowsbeak posted:You accusing anyone of racism is funny considering the racism you showed to Keith Ellison. I would argue if we are going to deal with it. We need to first ensure there are no racist centrists in the democratic party. I think we need to purge the chan-loving Nazi Propaganda skewers first.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:28
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Fulchrum posted:Great, I'll just be over here building the gently caress mothering re-education camps that we'd need to build to purge something that intrinsic to a huge number of Americans. Oh, and rebuilding all entertainment from the ground up so there is nothing to reinforce those biases afterwards. So according to Fulrchrum what we really need to enact any change is a bolshevik style reconstruction of America. Fulchrum posted:I think we need to purge the chan-loving Nazi Propaganda skewers first. I would say the kind of stuff you said about Keith was rather Nazi like.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:28
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Crowsbeak posted:So according to Fulrchrum what we really need to enact any change is a bolshevik style reconstruction of America. Maybe I can prevent this derail, hopefully. Crowsbeak, he's replying sarcastically to a misreading of what I said. No one believes this.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:29
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KwegiboHB posted:If you don't plan on changing that, yes, it would conflict. Here's a crazy idea; try changing that. It's the economy, stupid. Change what, exactly? Should we stop pushing for welfare benefits that poor white people oppose due to racism? Stop opposing the deportation of immigrants that poor white people view as unfair competition for jobs and wages? Have you thought about this at all?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:29
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KwegiboHB posted:Because they are worth one vote. Welp, every voter matters, guess we should turn the dnc into the party of fascists. Here's an idea, instead of capitulating and turning into neoliberal economic idpol shunning rightists, as leftists we should aim for the loving people who didn't loving vote, instead of trying to capture a bunch of reactionary poo poo heads. Why should we triangulate and move to the center to appease bigoted Trumpists? Only 24% of voters actually voted for him, so let's get the loving people who didn't loving vote instead of going even more right! Real leftist economic change and real social change is achieved through agitation, volunteering and being an activist, and loving voting and getting people to vote. Jfc, do you actually want your policy goals implemented or not?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:32
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KwegiboHB posted:Maybe I can prevent this derail, hopefully. Crowsbeak, he's replying sarcastically to a misreading of what I said. No one believes this. Well you see Fulchrum likes to cast wanting anti corruption initiatives and pro minimum wage laws as Bolshevism. So I decide to play along with him really being a closet Bolshevik. Also now according to another centrist. Playing to workers interests is fascism.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:32
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JeffersonClay posted:Change what, exactly? Should we stop pushing for welfare benefits that poor white people oppose due to racism? Stop opposing the deportation of immigrants that poor white people view as unfair competition for jobs and wages? Have you thought about this at all? Coming from the rust belt, I thought about this every day for years. You want to start with the most simplest basic thing you can do, actually tell people you want to create jobs. You know, the people that would vote for you to get into power so you can create jobs? Tell them. Loudly. Never stop telling them. Jobs, jobs jobs. I can't believe I have to sit down and explain why more votes is a good thing in a thread about politics.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:32
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KwegiboHB posted:Ok, that one is my fault. I meant more jobs. Sorry. Fair enough. But that just treats a symptoms. Even if we had full employment, or at least close to full employment, you're still gonna get that resentful fucker who sees a latino guy who is better than him in every way get promoted over him Crowsbeak posted:So according to Fulrchrum what we really need to enact any change is a bolshevik style reconstruction of America. quote:I would say the kind of stuff you said about Keith was rather Nazi like. What, that in his youth he supported and defended Louis Farrakhan? So Keith is also a nazi? Yeah, I'm not the one who is doing exactly what Breitbart is telling me to do.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:34
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I thought Hillary lost the election because she was so arrogant that she thought she'd win all those states easily so she didn't even have the balls to appear in them but god drat this thread opened my eyes and made me realise I'm gonna have to at least oppress one gender and/or race. werewolves get out
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Feb 28, 2017 02:34
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Crowsbeak posted:Well you see Fulchrum likes to cast wanting anti corruption initiatives and pro minimum wage laws as Bolshevism. So I decide to play along with him really being a closet Bolshevik. Learn how to use verb tenses. KwegiboHB posted:Coming from the rust belt, I thought about this every day for years. You want to start with the most simplest basic thing you can do, actually tell people you want to create jobs. You know, the people that would vote for you to get into power so you can create jobs? Tell them. Loudly. Never stop telling them. Jobs, jobs jobs. I can't believe I have to sit down and explain why more votes is a good thing in a thread about politics. Look, lying for years on end only works on Ohioans. You'd have to actually produce something, and it would help if you had a plan that would withstand even the slightest bit of scrutiny so that it doesn't immediately die in the media.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:34
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stone cold posted:Jfc, do you actually want your policy goals implemented or not? How much of your policy is going to be enacted in the next four years?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:35
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Brainiac Five posted:Hold up there, I'm the one that would be bullying people, to get them to acknowledge that lovers of that jackass pedophile shouldn't probably be supported by people who want a strong left or even just basic human decency in the left wing of the Democratic party. A symbolic olive branch is not based on reality how? It was supposed to be a public event to show that the Democrats were trying to move in a new direction. Instead it shows the Ds still prefer safer establishment choices. Voters respond to things they can see, even if it's just stage theater. See the Republicans trying to repeal the ACA 6000 times to drum up constituent support. Optics loving matter a lot in politics. There was a lot of posturing during the campaign that "the awptics!" is a stupid thing to worry about, Clinton has a serious plan and policy and that's what gets through to Americans. Turns out those optics made Hillary look like a mediocre at best choice even from most D's perspective, even if she might have been better than Obama.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:35
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Fulchrum posted:Fair enough. But that just treats a symptoms. Even if we had full employment, or at least close to full employment, you're still gonna get that resentful fucker who sees a latino guy who is better than him in every way get promoted over him "We cannot achieve utopia so we might as well not do anything. I see you're a left communist. Like good comrade Bordiga. Fulchrum posted:What, that in his youth he supported and defended Louis Farrakhan? So Keith is also a nazi? You used that to attack him as a Muslim. Seriously racist. I am starting tosee what the cntrists mean about racists among the left. We got a racist bolshivik here. Fulchrum posted:
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Feb 28, 2017 02:38
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How exactly do you use "he was a member of the NOI, treating him like he is just any other Muslim is pretty disingenuous" as being anti Muslim? Is it because you are treating him as any other Muslim and ignoring that he was in NOI?
Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 02:39
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Brainiac Five posted:Learn how to use verb tenses. Well, if you don't want to create jobs, you probably shouldn't say that. If you don't want to create jobs, I don't want to be in your party.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:40
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RasperFat posted:A symbolic olive branch is not based on reality how? It was supposed to be a public event to show that the Democrats were trying to move in a new direction. Instead it shows the Ds still prefer safer establishment choices. This is solely based on personal associations, rather than the actual programs of the people involved. So, we can assume that voters are just inevitably stupid and ignorant and have to be pandered to with staginess forever and ever, or we could actively reshape American politics to be less soundbite-oriented through directly resisting the novocaine atmosphere of edutainment. KwegiboHB posted:Well, if you don't want to create jobs, you probably should say that. If you don't want to create jobs, I don't want to be in your party. Saying you'll create jobs without doing anything to do so is a lot like Israel trying to defeat Hezbollah through creating the "cognitive perception of victory". Guess how well that went for them.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:40
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KwegiboHB posted:How much of your policy is going to be enacted in the next four years? Oh, my bad, you're right. Local and state politics cease to matter in light of an overwhelmingly national loss, and all left thinking individuals should cease to engage and should give up and let Trump roll over them. Staying active and agitating on the local, state, and national level will certainly have no effect. Here's a thought, since you seem to be very hopeless. #1 I'd recommend if you aren't already, to start seeing a therapist. It really does help, and I've found it very productive and good. #2 Stay vocal in every avenue you can if you want real leftist change. Volunteer and talk to your representatives as often as possible. Show up to town halls and city council meetings. Make your voice heard as loud as you are able to. If you can't give money, give your time, and if you can give neither, then I feel for you and sincerely hope you'll survive the next four years.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:40
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KwegiboHB posted:Well, if you don't want to create jobs, you probably shouldn't say that. If you don't want to create jobs, I don't want to be in your party. Remember Braniac is one of those liberals who gushes that people in Detroit and Cleveland now have to work at 7.25 an hour jobs because the factory jobs got moved to Bangladesh.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:42
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Brainiac Five posted:This is solely based on personal associations, rather than the actual programs of the people involved. So, we can assume that voters are just inevitably stupid and ignorant and have to be pandered to with staginess forever and ever, or we could actively reshape American politics to be less soundbite-oriented through directly resisting the novocaine atmosphere of edutainment. Guess how well it worked for Trump. Oh, and the entire republican party.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:43
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KwegiboHB posted:Guess how well it worked for Trump. Oh, and the entire republican party. Yep, that's definitely how that went down, all those Trump voters turned out because of their economic anxiety. studiously ignores rampant voter suppression, hillary's campaign flaws, incredibly bigoted pandering on the part of Trump
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Feb 28, 2017 02:45
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KwegiboHB posted:Guess how well it worked for Trump. Oh, and the entire republican party. Well, poo poo, I guess we better not actually do anything, just lie like a rug and assume we can beat the Republicans at their own game, that voters are actually fooled by Republican promises, and that the Hand of God won't reach down from heaven and wipe us from this sorrowed Earth like you'd wipe away a crushed cockroach. gently caress you.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:46
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stone cold posted:Oh, my bad, you're right. Local and state politics cease to matter in light of an overwhelmingly national loss, and all left thinking individuals should cease to engage and should give up and let Trump roll over them. Staying active and agitating on the local, state, and national level will certainly have no effect. You are the one turning down votes, why do I need a therapist?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:46
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KwegiboHB posted:Well, if you don't want to create jobs, you probably shouldn't say that. If you don't want to create jobs, I don't want to be in your party. This might be presumptuous, but I'm pretty sure he means "you need a way to make those jobs happen. Full stop, no ambiguity." Wanting to create jobs and actually managing it are two separate things, and it's clear that most voters cannot distinguish between trying and being stopped from doing something and lying about it.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:46
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KwegiboHB posted:You are the one turning down votes, why do I need a therapist? The point You
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Feb 28, 2017 02:46
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KwegiboHB posted:You are the one turning down votes, why do I need a therapist? Oh and we're back to suggesting we need to court racists and misogynists. Hey, do we need to court homophobes as well? Do I need to smear ketchup all over my face and play dead?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:47
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Anyone who says the Ds should just become Republican style liars is an idiot, that will not work.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:47
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, poo poo, I guess we better not actually do anything, just lie like a rug and assume we can beat the Republicans at their own game, that voters are actually fooled by Republican promises, and that the Hand of God won't reach down from heaven and wipe us from this sorrowed Earth like you'd wipe away a crushed cockroach. gently caress you. Or you could push for an agenda which addresses jobs and poverty and wealth in general, something that even racists need.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:48
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Lightning Lord posted:Anyone who says the Ds should just become Republican style liars is an idiot, that will not work. But see, we're turning down votes, can't have that!
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Feb 28, 2017 02:48
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stone cold posted:Yep, that's definitely how that went down, all those Trump voters turned out because of their economic anxiety. Believe it or not a lot of people voted trump because he said what they wanted to hear, and now they're regretting it because they not only didn't get what they wanted, but because of all the other poo poo too. It's pretty great.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:48
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Brainiac Five posted:Oh and we're back to suggesting we need to court racists and misogynists. Hey, do we need to court homophobes as well? Do I need to smear ketchup all over my face and play dead? You're right, how dare I even suggest getting more votes is a good thing.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:49
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KwegiboHB posted:Or you could push for an agenda which addresses jobs and poverty and wealth in general, something that even racists need. But you just said we should lie instead of actually doing something which addresses the issue! It's like you don't know anything but your need to feebly scratch at the throats of Hillary voters, and will say anything that amounts to proxy violence against them. KwegiboHB posted:You're right, how dare I even suggest getting more votes is a good thing. So are we gonna recruit Nazis? We gonna adopt a Nazi platform? How many Jewish people are you gonna put into the gas chambers?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:49
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