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Dizz posted:Believe it or not a lot of people voted trump because he said what they wanted to hear, and now they're regretting it because they not only didn't get what they wanted, but because of all the other poo poo too. stone cold posted:incredibly bigoted pandering on the part of Trump I covered that, lol
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Feb 28, 2017 02:50
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Brainiac Five posted:This is solely based on personal associations, rather than the actual programs of the people involved. So, we can assume that voters are just inevitably stupid and ignorant and have to be pandered to with staginess forever and ever, or we could actively reshape American politics to be less soundbite-oriented through directly resisting the novocaine atmosphere of edutainment. No I'm saying the majority of Americans do not have the time and education to accurately follow politics, not that all voters are stupid and ignorant. Most people don't know poo poo about how the government works, largely because our schools are terrible with civics and a complex slew of cultural reasons. Personal associations matter quite a bit in politics as well, I don't know why you think they wouldn't. Hillary's association with noted war criminal Kissinger certainly didn't help her, and the Trump administration's association with a fuckload of Russians is not helping them. I would love to reshape American politics and move it in a less soundbite direction, but that requires like 100 changes that need to be in effect for half a generation, minimum. And in order to get those changes, you have to play the optics game. In fact, I cannot remember a time when Democratic governments didn't pander with staginess. From the Greeks to now that his how you sell things to the people. Maybe we should try actually playing the game instead of pretending that we can win while being above it.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:52
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RasperFat posted:No I'm saying the majority of Americans do not have the time and education to accurately follow politics, not that all voters are stupid and ignorant. But they're following internal politics poo poo like the DNC chair election, huh. I mean, you seem to sincerely believe that only lying and deceit can achieve anything and I hope you get the therapy you need for your clear depression but I ain't gonna argue with someone's warped worldview because that's just trying to be CBT via the internet.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:54
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Brainiac Five posted:So are we gonna recruit Nazis? We gonna adopt a Nazi platform? How many Jewish people are you gonna put into the gas chambers? You might need to take a bit of a timeout
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Feb 28, 2017 02:54
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the working class consists of more than just white people, no one needs to be thrown under the bus to reach out to them (except corporate lobbyists). if someone decides they care more about loving over minorities than their own livelihood then we don't want their vote but that is absolutely no reason not to reach out to the rest of them when they're a crucial group of voters currently getting hosed over by both parties.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:55
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TheRat posted:You might need to take a bit of a timeout We can't turn down Nazi votes, Norwegian. It is essential we pander to Nazis lest we lose the fascist vote. Maybe if instead of borking all the drat day and footling around with hydroelectric power you actively supported Nazis you'd be a superpower like the USA. yellowyams posted:the working class consists of more than just white people, no one needs to be thrown under the bus to reach out to them (except corporate lobbyists). if someone decides they care more about loving over minorities than their own livelihood then we don't want their vote but that is absolutely no reason not to reach out to the rest of them when they're a crucial group of voters currently getting hosed over by both parties. Who are the people saying anything else? Someone quote this post so my vagueposting can react to her vagueposting.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:55
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Brainiac Five posted:We can't turn down Nazi votes, Norwegian. It is essential we pander to Nazis lest we lose the fascist vote. Maybe if instead of borking all the drat day and footling around with hydroelectric power you actively supported Nazis you'd be a superpower like the USA. Are you ok? Do we need to call someone?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:56
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Fulchrum posted:This might be presumptuous, but I'm pretty sure he means "you need a way to make those jobs happen. Full stop, no ambiguity." Wanting to create jobs and actually managing it are two separate things, and it's clear that most voters cannot distinguish between trying and being stopped from doing something and lying about it. Are we doing another "well its impossible to pass anything ever" Left communist argument? KwegiboHB posted:You're right, how dare I even suggest getting more votes is a good thing. You need a therapist because you won't acknowledge that stone cold is a poor persecuted genius who is always right.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:56
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Brainiac Five posted:
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Feb 28, 2017 02:56
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Brainiac Five posted:We can't turn down Nazi votes, Norwegian. It is essential we pander to Nazis lest we lose the fascist vote. Maybe if instead of borking all the drat day and footling around with hydroelectric power you actively supported Nazis you'd be a superpower like the USA. Please seek help.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:58
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Fulchrum posted:Let's ask Crowsbeak, he is usually repeating the latest nazi talking points pretty loud. Crowsbeak can't use verb tenses right, he'd end up demolishing the whole death camp in a zany slapstick moment straight out of Jerry Lewis's The Day The Clown Cried. Dr. Fishopolis posted:Please seek help. I'm curious as to why you're defending the proposition that we need to pander to racists and sexists because we can't afford to turn down their votes.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:58
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There's no need to pander to racists, just win back the 6 million Obama voters who didn't vote. poo poo, you only gotta win back like half, really.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:00
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Crowsbeak posted:Are we doing another "well its impossible to pass anything ever" Left communist argument? And you need serious institutional help since you think normalizing pedophilia is okay. I cannot stress enough how hosed up that is.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:00
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WampaLord posted:There's no need to pander to racists, just win back the 6 million Obama voters who didn't vote. Please tell "KwegiboHB" that, he seems to not understand it.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:00
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Brainiac Five posted:But they're following internal politics poo poo like the DNC chair election, huh. They're following it because it's being framed as a war for the soul of the Democrats, not because they're genuinely interested in internal D politics. Also, saying that stagecraft is a part of politics is not that other poo poo you're saying but way to say that people who disagree with do so because they're mentally ill and need therapy, Zak Smith.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:00
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Confounding Factor posted:Anything you can tell me what Perez has said that gives you hope? I'm still suspicious of the Democratic Party. There was the thing about making the Democrats actually run in elections which is a huge boost. I could have sworn he said something Sunday as well but I don't remember what it was
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Feb 28, 2017 03:01
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Lightning Lord posted:They're following it because it's being framed as a war for the soul of the Democrats, not because they're genuinely interested in internal D politics. I recommend you read kwegibo's posts. I've been down that hopeless hole, and I sincerely hope that's just a posting gimmick, because that's an extremely unhealthy place to constantly be in. I genuinely get worried about people like that.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:02
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Comrade Fulchrum how do you intend to accomplish your proposed revolution? I mean you seem pretty adamant that a good portion of this country should be put in reconditioning camps.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:02
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Brainiac Five posted:Crowsbeak can't use verb tenses right, he'd end up demolishing the whole death camp in a zany slapstick moment straight out of Jerry Lewis's The Day The Clown Cried. I always get that movie confused with Life is Beautiful. What specifically happened at the end?
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Feb 28, 2017 03:04
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Lightning Lord posted:They're following it because it's being framed as a war for the soul of the Democrats, not because they're genuinely interested in internal D politics. No, I straight up don't believe that the average person cared about this election at all, and conflating people on twitter who talk about politics with them is a bad idea. Saying that you need to lie to people, that you can't be honest with people, is exactly what is being proposed. You have to tell them the chair of the DNC is elected while carefully restraining anyone from entering the race who could be seen as "the establishment candidate". You have to prioritize the image over the reality. That's dishonesty and putting it ahead of honesty is probably far more of a factor in the decline of the Democratic Party than anything people talk about in this thread. It would be real great if you didn't call me a transphobic stalker and serial harasser in the future, thanks.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:04
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TheRat posted:You might need to take a bit of a timeout He's going to post another 300+ times in the next few days and then the thread will be gassed
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Feb 28, 2017 03:04
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Fulchrum posted:I always get that movie confused with Life is Beautiful. What specifically happened at the end? According to people who've seen it, Jerry Lewis runs crying into the gas chambers out of guilt for his work supporting them and dies. It ends with an image of bodies in a mass grave.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:05
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WampaLord posted:There's no need to pander to racists, just win back the 6 million Obama voters who didn't vote. No you see because they didn't vote their really super racist and sexist. Also I hear they all use gendered insults like once a year. Also I must be a pretty bad nazi to advocate gulags for all nazis in America.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:05
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Perfect Potato posted:He's going to post another 300+ times in the next few days and then the thread will be gassed People's personal obsession with me is really creepy and I guess I ought to buy some bear spray or something. Maybe a whistle.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:06
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Crowsbeak posted:Comrade Fulchrum how do you intend to accomplish your proposed revolution? I mean you seem pretty adamant that a good portion of this country should be put in reconditioning camps. Well, we'll start with you, trying to cure you of your dual compulsions to spread right wing propaganda, and to defend the molestation of kids. If we can remove those cancerous parts of your personality, we'll, you'd still be a douche, but at least we'll have made you marginally more tolerable.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:07
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Brainiac Five posted:But they're following internal politics poo poo like the DNC chair election, huh. No most Americans will hear 45 seconds about the chair and that's it. "Perez won the vote for DNC chair this week, beating out Bernie and progressive backed Ellison. Ellison was named deputy chair" Trump literally tweets that the election was rigged like the primaries, and the news covers that. Then it's on to the Oscars "oh my god they messed up the best picture announcement! Let's go to the red carpet." And when did I ever say I supported lying to people? Making a show of your platform and making some symbolic public gestures is not lying. I'm not really depressed either so I'm jut confused where that idea came from.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:08
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Fulchrum posted:Well, we'll start with you, trying to cure you of your dual compulsions to spread right wing propaganda, and to defend the molestation of kids.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:09
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Brainiac Five posted:No, I straight up don't believe that the average person cared about this election at all, and conflating people on twitter who talk about politics with them is a bad idea. Sorry, I reversed sides in this conflict. I agree with you 100% and I apologize for my comment.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:19
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Lightning Lord posted:Sorry, I reversed sides in this conflict. I agree with you 100% and I apologize for my comment. It's no problem. These things happen.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:20
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Brainiac Five posted:I'm enjoying the extent to which Bernouts would, if someone they thought was a centrist-liberal-Maoist said "No!! There's a bus coming, get out of the road!", immediately tuck into a combat roll to get in front of the drat bus, and to hell with any neoliberal that says getting hit with a bus is a bad thing, they're just conspiring to disenfranchise people. lol if you don't think Clinton's supporters didn't turn into the saltiest people on the planet after November You just don't hear about much of them here because a shitload of them got banned for toxxing The Dems will make zero headway in 2018 and 2020. They rather die off than move further to the left.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:23
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:lol if you don't think Clinton's supporters didn't turn into the saltiest people on the planet after November You're a guy who shrieks about identity politics and political correctness and insists everyone must be made to suffer and rape survivors need to be told they deserved it so pardon me if I find your predictions unlikely.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:26
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:lol if you don't think Clinton's supporters didn't turn into the saltiest people on the planet after November I have more faith. Mostly because I have already seen centrists cancers pushed out of my local party. The part can be saved from them. As long as we remain engaged.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:28
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Crowsbeak posted:"We cannot achieve utopia so we might as well not do anything. I see you're a left communist. Like good comrade Bordiga. I remember the post you are talking about and I'm 99% sure that's not what he was doing and 100% sure I told you you were wrong and to shut up at the time. You misread something.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:45
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Crowsbeak posted:I have more faith. Mostly because I have already seen centrists cancers pushed out of my local party. The part can be saved from them. As long as we remain engaged. If we can get a big push to primary out these assholes on 2018/2020 me might see change. Just look at the response to getting barrages of phone calls to support Ellison. "We won't be told what to do" If that is our reps response to demands from their constituents, they don't deserve the position.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:46
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So what I'm taking from this thread is that the typical voter is literally an animal, more specifically pan troglodytes, and that we must tell them outrageous lies to trick them into voting for us, but if our deception involves, depending on the audience, putting social justice issues on the backburner in favor of economic arguments, while remaining true to both, then we are filthy heretics and must be burned at the stake in the cleansing fire of identity politics. Sacrificed to the gods of centrism. I mean, poo poo, it's a fine line to walk, but I guess I'll have to take your word for it  you've hardly let us down so far, after all.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:46
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Maybe we should just vote for socialists instead though, I dunno. This ∞-dimensional chess apparently required for a Democrat to win an election for so much as loving dogcatcher seems like a lot of effort and duplicity for the returns we get? Seems like there ought to be a better way. I will meditate on this.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:49
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Nevvy Z posted:I remember the post you are talking about and I'm 99% sure that's not what he was doing and 100% sure I told you you were wrong and to shut up at the time. You misread something. Well you have this nasty habit of being an apologist for racists so its certainly wrong.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:49
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Brainiac Five posted:You're a guy who shrieks about identity politics and political correctness and insists everyone must be made to suffer and rape survivors need to be told they deserved it so pardon me if I find your predictions unlikely. Your thing where you tilt at strawmen is really getting unhinged. You need to take a break, you're not making any sense.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:50
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Kilroy posted:So what I'm taking from this thread is that the typical voter is literally an animal, more specifically pan troglodytes, and that we must tell them outrageous lies to trick them into voting for us, but if our deception involves, depending on the audience, putting social justice issues on the backburner in favor of economic arguments, while remaining true to both, then we are filthy heretics and must be burned at the stake in the cleansing fire of identity politics. Sacrificed to the gods of centrism. You and me baby ain't nothing mammals, So let's lie to the people on the CSPAN channel. I don't know why telling people we will work on building factories in their districts = supporting nazis, but that's infighting on the left. We must preface every argument with bigotry is bad, or else we are supporting racism.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:51
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Voters are not that stupid. People do, however, want a simple coherent message and that is what Bernie's main appeal was.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:52
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