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Cap's Beliefs in Civil War: - The Avengers are better off independent from the government - It's not fair to let Bucky get tossed into some dark prison cell forever for the stuff he did while brainwashed - Tony's team is not asking enough questions about The Accords That's the way I saw it. Cap didn't like the way things sounded. Tony was in the middle of calming that, but then he said too much and revealed that Wanda was being held prisoner by Tony's deathbot. Then Bucky gets re-brainwashed and now all the costumed people gotta punch each other.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:29
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Arist posted:Croc isn't explored at all, is the thing. He's nobody. Besides having one of the more memorable looks out of the squad members, saving the squad in the end, and getting some dialogue about who he is and why he is that way. There's also little things like being one of the only crew members not interested in drinking (turns down a drink at the bar initially before relenting and having a beer), having a decent sense of humor, and showing sensitivity about his upbringing. SonicRulez posted:I do actually appreciate that block o' text.It reads like grabbing at stuff that isn't there, but hey, it's art. You get what you want. I don't really see how Croc's race drew any parallels or comparisons with him and Deadshot or Waller anymore than the rest of the Squad. Really his race only comes up when he requests BET which was just the worst for me. The character comes off as flat to me because all of your analysis is spelled out to you in the movie in the first 5 minutes or so. They go over all that stuff in his dossier. It's not until the diner that things go any further than that and they don't actually change a whole lot. A character with no arc is gonna have a hard time contributing to my enjoyment of a film that is supposed to be character driven. I feel the same way about Katana. I don't really agree that I'm latching at something that isn't there, and you kind of agree with me by stating my whole analysis is summed up in the movie in a single scene. Croc's character is more of a juxtaposition to Deadshot and Waller. They're upwardly mobile black people justifying their crimes in ways that allow them to fit into society properly*. Waller's need to control everything is okay, because society is giving her the authority in a pursuit for "national security", Deadshot's is "acceptable" because it's in the pursuit of family, but Croc's is a complete rejection from society caused by society. While Waller and Deadshot are higher earners and climbed up their respective career ladders, Croc only went down, all the way to the point of living in a sewer off cannibalism. I disagree with "his race only comes up when he requests BET" because his whole thing is being Otherized for his skin. It's an exaggerated version of the Doll Tests. A study where children were asked to pick what dolls they'd consider good or evil and all races tended to pick darker skinned dolls as the ones displaying evil/bad characteristics. *When I say he's fitting into society proper it's more about providing for his daughter and being a good dad, not shooting witnesses. And while I admit that isn't a focal point of the movie, it's certainly observable in the film and I found it to be interesting. I guess if we wanted to cut down to it, I'd watch a whole movie about Croc in the DCCU that explored more about him. Kind of like that old Batman Animated episode where Croc dated the girl that suffered from the aging disorder where she always looked like a child. Except take her out completely. I did like how the episode ended with Croc being freaked out by her crazy. I digress. You're right that I should drop the shitposts about gimmicks. Sorry if my CineD/DCCU posts are grating, I certainly don't mean them to be. I think the boards would be better overall if everyone limited the "hivemind" crap because it really doesn't exist and only distracts/stunts actual conversations. MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 21:38
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So cap is opposed to the State, the Courts, and International Treaties. Civil War the comic had Cap realise that his anti-government crusade was myopic and misguided no matter how repulsive Stark was. Is movie Cap still Cap, or should he be called... AnCap?
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Feb 27, 2017 21:44
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Civil War was so bad
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Feb 27, 2017 21:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So cap is opposed to the State, the Courts, and International Treaties. Civil War the comic had Cap realise that his anti-government crusade was myopic and misguided no matter how repulsive Stark was. Is movie Cap still Cap, or should he be called... AnCap? A person who defends Snyder movies should not be using this argument.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:54
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Please stop biting the Bravest bait.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:54
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If you guys are so afraid of talking to him then why won't you ever let it go.
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Feb 27, 2017 21:56
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Endless Mike posted:A person who defends Snyder movies should not be using this argument. Are you one of those people who's convinced Snyder is a secret Objectivist? After he made a movie where the Ayn Rand allusion is rejected as a false god and then wrecked to pieces? Last time this was brought up there was agreement that Civil War is a bit libertarian, and I think that it was an inevitable part of superheroes. Also, Tintin is good. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 22:03
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What?
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Feb 27, 2017 22:13
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MacheteZombie posted:It's a bad version of Escape from New York. So it's Escape From L.A.?
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Feb 27, 2017 22:23
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Wheat Loaf posted:So it's Escape From L.A.? sadly it's worse, but only because L.A. has the basketball scene, the surfing scene, and Bruce Campbell e: also because LA is a Carpenter movie.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:25
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It's really funny when BotL's gimmick gets lazy and obvious, like how he has now mentioned Tintin like three times because no one is arguing with him about it yet. Anyway Suicide Squad was irredeemable trash in nearly every way save Will Smith not phoning it in.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:28
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MacheteZombie posted:sadly it's worse, but only because L.A. has the basketball scene, the surfing scene, and Bruce Campbell
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Feb 27, 2017 22:29
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achillesforever6 posted:And the ending which is legit great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHUqNCDwQj4 100% right
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Feb 27, 2017 22:32
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SlimGoodbody posted:It's really funny when BotL's gimmick gets lazy and obvious, like how he has now mentioned Tintin like three times because no one is arguing with him about it yet. Lol, it's just an alternative about superheroes... and it makes one yearn for superhero movies of the same caliber. There's Incredibles, and that's it. Tintin just such a daring effort, always doing something utterly impossible for live-action, and its joyful buoyancy would be perfect for a Silver Age-inspired work. It almost makes me cry, for the amazing movie we got and the amazing movies we could have. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 22:44
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Lol, it's just an alternative about superheroes... and it makes one yearn for superhero movies of the same caliber. Tintin just such a daring effort, always doing something utterly impossible for live-action, and its joyful buoyancy would be perfect for a Silver Age-inspired work. It almost makes me cry, for the amazing movie we got and the amazing movies we could have. It didn't wow me as much as it did you (partially because I find Zemeckis-style CGI to be severely, offputtingly dead center in the uncanny valley and it takes me out of the film constantly), but yeah, I wouldn't hate it if we could manage to do more Silver Age type stuff. We kind of just started in the Bronze Age with mainstream superhero movies and then just moved directly into the Iron Age, where everything must be tactically realist and vaguely nihilistic.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:51
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All movies, and fiction, need elements that you take out of them. It helps maintain critical distance, and makes you more aware and appreciative of the artifice.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:58
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SlimGoodbody posted:It's really funny when BotL's gimmick gets lazy and obvious, like how he has now mentioned Tintin like three times because no one is arguing with him about it yet. Some part of me is always gonna be sad that I'm the only one who likes Diablo. At least before that "I already lost one family" bit. That was bad.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:02
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SonicRulez posted:Some part of me is always gonna be sad that I'm the only one who likes Diablo. At least before that "I already lost one family" bit. That was bad. I liked Diablo. Cool design, good story, and his Godmode was dope
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Feb 27, 2017 23:10
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Arist posted:Croc isn't explored at all, is the thing. He's nobody. I'll have you know that he has the distinct character trait of "wants BET"
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Feb 28, 2017 00:40
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Arist posted:I don't necessarily agree with this. Captain America has no arc in Civil War and he's still a good part of that movie. I feel cap not having an arc was alright because civil war was more about black partner. T'challa is the one who actually sees what Zemo is doing and puts his ego aside to do the right thing.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:54
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'll have you know that he has the distinct character trait of "wants BET" It's no pink unicorn fetish that's for sure.
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Feb 28, 2017 02:02
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MacheteZombie posted:It's no pink unicorn fetish that's for sure. Excuse me, that's Australian FOSTERS stereotype man to you
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Feb 28, 2017 02:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Excuse me, that's Australian FOSTERS stereotype man to you DIRTY DEEDS DUN DIRT CHEAP
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Feb 28, 2017 02:11
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MacheteZombie posted:DIRTY DEEDS DUN DIRT CHEAP Hmm, I like your skill at choosing obvious musical cues from pop music. How'd you like to work on a DCCU movie?
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Feb 28, 2017 02:38
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Arist posted:It means the movie doesn't loving do anything with it. None of it is emphasized or played for dramatic effect. Croc is a complete non-entity in that movie. SonicRulez posted:I do actually appreciate that block o' text.It reads like grabbing at stuff that isn't there, but hey, it's art. Machete Zombie loves BvS and is constantly telling people that hated it that they never post any substantive criticism of that pile of poo poo even though people write loving essays on it and are quite specific about their issues with the movie. I think his deal is he's one of those dudes who thinks the rest of us are watching movies wrong while he, on the other hand, is paying rapt attention. I dunno. At any rate, man, I'm gonna have to check out Suicide Squad just to see if this thing is the trainwreck everyone says it is. Except it sounds like it's not even bad enough to be entertaining like, say, Batman and Robin was and is just "bad" bad like Green Lantern or Fantastic Four so I'm unsure if I need to waste my time. How are the Batman parts and how much is he in it?
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Feb 28, 2017 03:03
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'll have you know that he has the distinct character trait of "wants BET" I hear he doesn't drink alcohol either. Whoa.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:06
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BiggerBoat posted:Machete Zombie loves BvS and is constantly telling people that hated it that they never post any substantive criticism of that pile of poo poo even though people write loving essays on it and are quite specific about their issues with the movie. Batman is in two short scenes. His scene with Deadshot was laugh out loud ridiculous because a) he lumbers around like a fat cosplayer and I'm 80% sure it wasn't Affleck in the suit and b) he just kind of awkwardly stands there while a small child puts herself between him and a man pointing a gun. His Joker/Harley scenes just kind of exist and he doesn't do much of anything.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:31
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I didn't really care much for Suicide Squad, but is it really that irredeemably bad? Like, in isolation to the other hero-flicks of 2016, I mean? I feel as though it stands up well to (for example) any of the Fantastic Four films, Origins:Wolverine, or Green Lantern. Is it really worse than Transformers or GI Joe? I didn't think so. My take for what it's worth is that (Acadamy-Award winner) Suicide Squad would have mostly worked as a stand-alone film and mostly suffers because of it's connection to the DCEU franshise. The Batman and Superman of this franchise are presented as such grimdark, flawed, not-quite-heroes... I don't know what David Ayer could have done to make his characters 'bad guys' by comparison.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:35
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The film has many problems, but its biggest offense is that it tries so hard to tell you how funny and interesting its characters are, but in reality they're all boring as poo poo. I'm no stranger to poo poo and schlock, but making a boring blockbuster is an unforgivable sin. If you're gonna be poo poo, commit to it. Go nuts. Be entertaining, at the very least.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:45
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I wanted to fall asleep by the third time they introduced Deadshot again, after the third time Waller talked about how she wanted to assemble a task force again.
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Feb 28, 2017 03:51
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The film has many problems, but its biggest offense is that it tries so hard to tell you how funny and interesting its characters are, but in reality they're all boring as poo poo. I'm no stranger to poo poo and schlock, but making a boring blockbuster is an unforgivable sin. If you're gonna be poo poo, commit to it. Go nuts. Be entertaining, at the very least. That's a fair take. On my personal scale I'd rank Suicide Squad a solid C+ I don't think mediocre is the same god-awful.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:04
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Yakmouth posted:I didn't really care much for Suicide Squad, but is it really that irredeemably bad? Like, in isolation to the other hero-flicks of 2016, I mean? It stands up pretty well compared to Catwoman too. The problems start when you compare it to movies that haven't, at some point, held the title of "worst ever."
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Feb 28, 2017 07:22
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haitfais posted:It stands up pretty well compared to Catwoman too. The problems start when you compare it to movies that haven't, at some point, held the title of "worst ever." Well that's sort of my point, really. When it comes comes to bad comic book movies I'm not sure Suicide Squad would crack my top twenty. I can't decide if the fans are over-praising this film to combat the backlash or if the movies' critics are being overly harsh as a reaction to the ridiculous hype machine surrounding it, but either way I don't understand how people can be so passionate in EITHER direction over what for me was a pretty 'meh' film. Maybe it's a Batman thing. Batman movies have always seemed to draw insanely intense scrutiny compared to other IPs.
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Feb 28, 2017 08:26
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BiggerBoat posted:Machete Zombie loves BvS and is constantly telling people that hated it that they never post any substantive criticism of that pile of poo poo even though people write loving essays on it and are quite specific about their issues with the movie. Well yes. The trick is to read what those essays are actually saying. One essay I recall was about how Batman was too fascist in BvS, whereas in other media the creators would tastefully balance out Batman's fascism as not to make it too prominent. I mean, that is a fairly accurate observation, but it was also a very obscene criticism - the subtext was that he finds fascism acceptable as long as it's pleasantly subtle and fronted by a comic character he likes. So it was not credible criticism in spite of the word-count. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 09:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Batman is in two short scenes. His scene with Deadshot was laugh out loud ridiculous because a) he lumbers around like a fat cosplayer and I'm 80% sure it wasn't Affleck in the suit and b) he just kind of awkwardly stands there while a small child puts herself between him and a man pointing a gun. His Joker/Harley scenes just kind of exist and he doesn't do much of anything. And to annoy me at how they misused his musical que. But that's been talked about. But in relation to it's technical merits, the make up and character designs were excellent. Like the designs have problems (like Damaged Joker etc...) but at least they are distinct, you can easily distinguish everyone and it's not a bunch of people in identical black leather. Plus you have scenes that look stunning. (The recreation of the Alex Ross Joker/Harley Quinn cover. Or the scene where Joker dives into the vat of chemicals to pull out Harley.) I think it was a film that deserved the Oscar for Make Up. And as one wag on Twitter remarked. https://twitter.com/baileymeyers/status/836071042829312000 "The Suicide Squad makeup team sat with Jared Leeto for three hours every day. They don't deserve an Oscar, they deserve the Noble Peace Prize." The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 11:44
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Suicide Squad was interesting on the grounds of how transparently it was dropped into the corporate meat grinder. Was there an interesting, weird, out-there, subversive and cool Suicide Squad at one point in it's development. Maybe? But, from the start it seemed to be really crushed by the weight of competing with GOTG, of maintaining the brand, and after the disastrous reception of BvS, trying to turn the tide of negativity against the DCEU by somehow both lightening the thing up and also layering it in faux-edginess, no wonder it came out pretty drat compromised. All these films are corporate product after all, but SS wore it very much on its sleeve.
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Feb 28, 2017 11:52
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I gotta say I'm unreasonably annoyed at BvS getting Razzie awards. I mean it feels more like they're giving BvS awards because a lot of people disliked it and not because it's an actual bad movie. Quite honestly, most peoples problems with BvS seems to stem from the movies interpretation of the titular characters differing from what they see as the "true" version of the characters , i.e batman killing or Superman being "gloomy" or Luthors Silicon valley tech geek schtick. It's a bad movie if you expect it to be a Marvel Superhero movie, but it's great on its own merits, so it getting razzie awards seems more lik pandering than anything else. Personally I think BvS will be viewed more favorably with time, after the kneejerk response to it has faded. Re Civil War chat: Steve Rogers unironically argues that the Avengers, a paramilitary organisation led by a billionaire CEO, should have zero oversight what so ever. Imagine Blackwater, but with superpowers, and no one to hold their leash. The astounding arrogance of Rogers is just mindblowing. Tony of course, isn't much better, since he only signs the accords with no intention of actually honoring the spirit of the law. In fact he violates them the second it becomes convenient. If the goal here was to make everyone in the Avengers look bad (aside from Black Panther) then they did a pretty good job. In fact the movie proves that the Avengers do in fact need some heavy oversight, since they break laws at a whim and cause massive collateral damage wherever they go. Yakmouth posted:The Batman and Superman of this franchise are presented as such grimdark, flawed, not-quite-heroes.. Batman certainly. He's portrayed as the villain in BvS before his redemption. But how is Superman flawed? If anything, he's coming out of this smelling like roses. He's not a cheery happy carefree Superman a la Reeves , but that's not flawed, nor grimdark, merely different. I find this Superman to be more heroic than the Reeves version in certain ways, because despite struggling with doubt he still tries to help humanity, even when humanity is outright hostile to him. The movie makes a point that violence as a means only begets more violence, and that only by compassion and sacrifice can you make the world better. That's a very inspiring message I think.
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Feb 28, 2017 12:18
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McCloud posted:I gotta say I'm unreasonably annoyed at BvS getting Razzie awards. I mean it feels more like they're giving BvS awards because a lot of people disliked it and not because it's an actual bad movie.
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Feb 28, 2017 12:29
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McCloud posted:I gotta say I'm unreasonably annoyed at BvS getting Razzie awards. I mean it feels more like they're giving BvS awards because a lot of people disliked it and not because it's an actual bad movie. It's just a bit of harmless fun.
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Feb 28, 2017 12:52
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