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stone cold posted:Having borders does not mean you can declare people, like as a loving concept, illegal. People are not goddamn "illegals," you ginormous piece of loving poo poo. Undocumented immigrants are loving people and part of having responsibility and sovereignty as the United States is maybe acknowledging how hosed up our repeated incursions into central and South America totally hosed it up and forced people into the kind of desperation it takes to break the loving laws. Somehow, I don't see you owning up to American imperialism though. People are not loving "illegals," they're loving living human goddamn beings, you racist swine. Well certainly the Hondurans come here due to our idiotic policies. Having spoken to illegal Mexicans most I knew came here for jobs. Now of corse they may have jobs if not for the idiocy of NAFTA but then once again that's free trade for you. stone cold posted:Also, Aztlán, you white thicko, does not refer to the loving legendary place, it refers to the states illegally seized by the American government. I see somebody knows nothing of the history of the United States, so I'll give you a nice little fifth grade jumping off point: go ahead and google the "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo." stone cold posted:Also, I wasn't aware you moonlit at USCIS or CBP, but your naziness would fit right in at CBP, let me tell you. Also I don't know any of what that word salad means.
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Feb 28, 2017 09:06
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Mormon Star Wars posted:The Democrats are already courting racists, we let Bloomberg speak at the convention. yeah, when i bring this up i get told i'm crazy. never mind that we just rewarded racists like dershowitz, and we're keeping him nice and snug inside our party instead of forcing the racist shitbird out.
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Feb 28, 2017 09:09
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Crowsbeak posted:Well certainly the Hondurans come here due to our idiotic policies. Having spoken to illegal Mexicans most I knew came here for jobs. Now of corse they may have jobs if not for the idiocy of NAFTA but then once again that's free trade for you. Thanks for your anecdotes, bourgeois scum. Crowsbeak posted:Oh lol. You' actually want to hand back over a third of the USA that is inhabited by people who don't want to be Mexican. Now that is utterly heartless. I rather empathize more with the Native Americans who were genocided off their land, and the Mexicans whose land we seized illegally. I don't think you understand the point of Aztlán, and it's typical that a racist swine such as yourself would ignore the vast history of American imperialism. Crowsbeak posted:Also I don't know any of what that word salad means. Quelle surprise, nazi scum who wishes to deport 11 million people (to say nothing of the American loving citizens born to the undocumented by the way) knows literally nothing about the agencies and mechanisms to enforce the laws he allegedly loves. With an intelligence like yours, you'd be perfect in that stupid Minuteman group.
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Feb 28, 2017 09:17
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stone cold posted:Thanks for your anecdotes, bourgeois scum. Well as always the facts do not match you're knee jerk feelings. stone cold posted:I rather empathize more with the Native Americans who were genocided off their land, and the Mexicans whose land we seized illegally. I don't think you understand the point of Aztlán, and it's typical that a racist swine such as yourself would ignore the vast history of American imperialism. 1. I actually favor expanding the land that all tribes hold along with a yearly stipend of 40 grand then pegged to inflation for the tribes. 2. How many were there? The entire population of alta california including the natives was 87000. Also most were allowed to stay. Now I mean maybe some compensation can be given tho those kicked out but beyond that. Their not getting anything. it would be the most heartless thing to demand that that millions of people there many of them also descendants of Mexican and central American immigrants who love America that they are now Mexicans. stone cold posted:Quelle surprise, nazi scum who wishes to deport 11 million people (to say nothing of the American loving citizens born to the undocumented by the way) knows literally nothing about the agencies and mechanisms to enforce the laws he allegedly loves. With an intelligence like yours, you'd be perfect in that stupid Minuteman group Well if they cannot find jobs, most will leave.
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Feb 28, 2017 09:31
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stone cold posted:
Hey, armchair psychology is only applicable to the people doing the unthinkable, Calling the white tankie racist.  Crowsbeak posted:I care about my countries poor. If someone wants to come to my country. They can do so legally. Of course I also understand plenty of those who come here illegally come because they are encouraged by the 1% putting up ads in their countries telling them where to find work. So I intend to make the penalties for the hiring of those who are here legally much worse. I know that those people wouldn't come here if they knew they wouldn't get jobs. Also genius just so you know the 1% likes illegal immigration. It keeps wages down. Ho boy buddy, where do I loving begin on this pile of detestable fuckery. First off, any claim of yours to be socialist can get hosed, the best left wing title you can claim is your lovely role model one J Vissarianovich. Perfectly happy to claim yourself a bringer of equality as you continue the very oppression you stated yourself to end. But you state "The rich did this". Sure, but we Socialists are people claiming the equality of society. If we do not seek to remedy the inequalities, no matter their relevance to us specifically, then we are no better than they! The civil rights of all people and the repartition of damages of centuries of societal disregard and outright hostility is a cost that must be born to see a more equal world in the end, and is a path any believer in this ideal should hold dear. Second, just. Just loving goddamn. These are people. People. These aren't things you can just designate as an object of disgust, an "illegal", a way to act superior by virtue of an arbitrary line you were born inside, a line that; again, was made by stealing and genociding an entire continental ethnic group. Are borders a construct meant to trap humanity in squabbles, insularity and war or are they not? Trick question to you I suppose, what do we need but to focus on class, to have our Socialism In One Country? To continue to just be the oppressors of a different bent, content that we have equalised those we are like and approve of, to be the more equal than others? People like you who claim my ideology disgust me, just own up to wanting Stalinism back or gently caress off. E: Phoneposting at work, probably way behind the convo. Don't care, needed to say it.
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Feb 28, 2017 09:38
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Playstation 4 posted:Hey, armchair psychology is only applicable to the people doing the unthinkable, I never claimed to be a socialist. Also I'd take offense to anyone who suggests people living happily in one country should suddenly have to be part of another country, that goes against self determination. Also I hope Mexico votes for Orbrador as he can show America what a real man of the people can do. I more then anything believe in a nations right to decide its own future. Be that if it wants to be a conservative hell hole. Or a anti oligarchical paradise. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 09:45
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Good lord, gas this thread before it's too late
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Feb 28, 2017 10:11
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TheRat posted:Good lord, gas this thread before it's too late It's a valid topic of discussion, make a new thread for it, or move on, nothings forcing you to read it.
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Feb 28, 2017 10:18
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stone cold posted:How about these are actual human loving lives at stake and maybe deporting 11 million people is not just inhumane, it's a logistical loving nightmare? I don't really understand why you're simultaneously throwing 'true leftist' and 'centrist nonsense' at my direction, but regardless, it is clear you did not understand my point. I just told you that liberals have no political argument for what exactly it is that they envision immigration in America as except vague 'compassion'. You respond with the same thing, and add "it's a logistical loving nightmare". "It's a logistical nightmare" is not a coherent political vision for what immigrants mean to the United States. It is not a credible political argument. No minds will ever be changed by claming "well it's just difficult". Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. I mean, what does that even mean. So if the logistics of deporting all these people became easy, then it would not be as bad to deport them? No one here is 'rallying' for Spencer you hysterical idiot, anymore that anyone is rallying to Trump by pointing out that maybe his rallies actually were more effective than Hillary's events. The Democratic Party just tried to win an election under the notions of "decency" and "compassion" in lieu of more concrete politics. It failed catastrophically. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 12:44
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"let's keep taxpaying people who commit crimes at a lower rate than the genuine populace". There's a ton of assumptions here that anyone could rightfully dispute. Why "taxpaying"? Why 'a lower rate'? For that matter, why are you complaining that people use the word 'illegal' and then describe others as "the genuine populace", as if immigrants are not genuine or something? How do we "keep" them? "Keep" them from what or where? Any system, any political vision that relies on millions of people coming here through any means and remaining in a legal limbo where their permanence in the United States depends on the whims of whoever currently occupies the Executive is completely broken and useless.
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Feb 28, 2017 13:02
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Pedro De Heredia posted:"let's keep taxpaying people who commit crimes at a lower rate than the genuine populace". For someone who isn't dying to carve internationalism out of leftist politics like Freddy Krueger with an Elm Street teen, the point is to counter rightist propaganda about how immigrants are criminals and parasites. The neoleftist response is to say, "maybe we should be trying to normalize those concepts" as our puffy president declares Mexico a nation of rapists. It should be fairly obvious that "keep" refers to amnesty and legalization of undocumented immigrants within the country, along with a transformation of American immigration policy to be less about encouraging brain drain. But internationalism is bourgeois now, leftists must be nationalists.
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Feb 28, 2017 13:27
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Crowsbeak posted:Is there in any way that you're not a sociopath? Stop lying about posters shithead
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Feb 28, 2017 13:38
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stone cold posted:Having borders does not mean you can declare people, like as a loving concept, illegal. People are not goddamn "illegals," you ginormous piece of loving poo poo. Undocumented immigrants are loving people and part of having responsibility and sovereignty as the United States is maybe acknowledging how hosed up our repeated incursions into central and South America totally hosed it up and forced people into the kind of desperation it takes to break the loving laws. Somehow, I don't see you owning up to American imperialism though. People are not loving "illegals," they're loving living human goddamn beings, you racist swine. That's exactly what it means. Take it from a guy who lives in the Schengen area. All large societies are based on a monopolization of violence and codified limitations on the value of human life as a consequence. A democracy and the rights it garantuees only reaches so far as its elected legislature, in practice. Right now that reach tend to stop at a states given borders. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 13:58
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Illegal persons aren't a thing. No. Illegal immigration is. A person can immigrate illegally. But they are still persons, legally.
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Feb 28, 2017 14:11
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Nevvy Z posted:Illegal persons aren't a thing. No. Illegal immigration is. A person can immigrate illegally. But they are still persons, legally. Yeah but their status as residents is either legal or illegal. "an illegal" is just a shorthand version of "an illegal alien", it's a perfectly valid term.
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Feb 28, 2017 14:22
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Yeah but their status as residents is either legal or illegal. It's a word deliberately used by reactionaries to dehumanize immigrants and suggest their existence is illegal.
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Feb 28, 2017 14:30
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Yeah but their status as residents is either legal or illegal. u a nazi
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Feb 28, 2017 14:56
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Brainiac Five posted:It's a word deliberately used by reactionaries to dehumanize immigrants and suggest their existence is illegal. Thats reactionairy and dehumanizing? If kicking illegal aliens out of your country is inhuman then I better bail from the social democrats and strap on a brownshirt SA uniform right now. Please don't read up on the state of political discourse in Europe, you might just get a heart attack. If anything american "white nationalism" is rather tame if the deplorable nazis in this thread is anything to go by. The way I see it honesty about certain topics would do the US some good, if you reject that then know it will only get worse. Europe is the way it is right now because we've had waaay to many taboo topics, with us on the left being inconsistant in our values and not finding a sufficient counterargument on the basis of socialism. Amongst the radical left here in Sweden stuff like secularism and gender equality have thus been sacrificed by self proclaimed feminists and socialists on the altar of "anti-racism" and "cultural sensitivity", it's insane. You don't have to bend the knee to religious conservatism just to differentiate yourself from an obsolete concept like racism, especially if you do it just because said fanatics are browner than you. Don't loose sight of the class issue, and don't sacrifice it to score cheap points in a culture war debate that was going to be decided via a generation gap anyway. Thats precisely why the democrats needed a guy like Bernie Sanders or Keith Ellison but now have to settle for Tom "TPP" Perez. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 15:02
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Fulchrum posted:That's why Schumer endorsed Ellisson, after all. Is there a reason why you continue to misspell Ellison's name is every post?
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Feb 28, 2017 15:15
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Yeah but their status as residents is either legal or illegal. Their status as residents is out of the question until they go through due process. Postorder Trollet89 posted:Thats reactionairy and dehumanizing? If kicking illegal aliens out of your country is inhuman then I better bail from the social democrats and strap on a brownshirt SA uniform right now. You know what, I am quite comfortable with you not talking about how American "White nationalism" is rather tame.
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Feb 28, 2017 15:18
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Thats reactionairy and dehumanizing? If kicking illegal aliens out of your country is inhuman then I better bail from the social democrats and strap on a brownshirt SA uniform right now. We need to, in America, clearly understand that Europe, European people, and European values are the enemy of justice and liberty everywhere, yes. Alas, it is unlikely we will have a government willing to take the necessary actions to rescue refugees from the bloodthirsty Euroguaits circling like vultures, drooling at the prospect of deportations, before it's too late and Europeans drat themselves yet again.
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Feb 28, 2017 15:19
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I honestly cannot tell who is being real and who is trolling at this point so good job!
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Feb 28, 2017 15:19
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Pretty sure the Swedish guy is genuine in his hatred for Muslims and his belief that feminism must be about telling women what they can and cannot wear.
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Feb 28, 2017 15:21
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:"an illegal" is just a shorthand version of "an illegal alien", it's a perfectly valid term. Do you also call gay people homos?
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Feb 28, 2017 15:23
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Brainiac Five posted:Pretty sure the Swedish guy is genuine in his hatred for Muslims and his belief that feminism must be about telling women what they can and cannot wear. I... uh... 
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Feb 28, 2017 15:28
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Brainiac Five posted:Pretty sure the Swedish guy is genuine in his hatred for Muslims and his belief that feminism must be about telling women what they can and cannot wear. Going by what you said I'm pretty sure that left and right has become sideways and down in the United States. When did I ever talk about muslim dress codes? I'm speaking in very general terms about not standing up for core beleifs and what happens when you don't. I'm simply warning of whats in store for you if you ignore some very real problems. But then again you can keep going and become the next midwife of nazism. "White nationalism" in the United States is to european style nationalism what american football is to rugby, a family friendly PG13 version of it. You think Steve Bannon is as bad as it gets? Look up Jobbik in Hungary or Golden Dawn in Greece and then you will see something that does not need exaggerations at all to describe in a way that you would agree with. If the debate has become so stifled that you can't even argue against illegal immigration without being lumped in with The Donald and his merry gang of supporters at britebart.com then your country is absolutely hosed. We did that once and all it got us was neo-nazis in parliament.
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Feb 28, 2017 15:49
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Going by what you said I'm pretty sure that left and right has become sideways and down in the United States. When did I ever talk about muslim dress codes? I'm speaking in very general terms about not standing up for core beleifs and what happens when you don't. The American Left, freeing itself from Eurowhite barbarianism and savagery, has rejected nationalism in favor of internationalism, sending refugees to die in favor of welcoming them, smallmindedness in favor of being great-souled. Having Nazi pig cops chase and torture undocumented immigrants will never be one of our core values, no matter how many Europeans insist civilization rests on their barbarian tendencies.
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Feb 28, 2017 15:53
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Keep fighting those moral battles on irrelevant post modern linguistic games about who's the most compassionate and ignore that guy's whole point, alas precisely prove it, that today people have no idea of what different politics might be possible and are content to just throw some slogans around that try to promote the holy (politically useless) cow of empathy. Stronger together lol
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Feb 28, 2017 15:59
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Fados posted:Keep fighting those moral battles on irrelevant post modern linguistic games about who's the most compassionate and ignore that guy's whole point, alas precisely prove it, that today people have no idea of what different politics might be possible and are content to just throw some slogans around that try to promote the holy (useless) cow of empathy. Another pseudoleftist emerges from the honky cave to defend the use of slurs. I like that you guys believe language is irrelevant to thought. Explains why you repeat right-wing propaganda regularly.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:01
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By the by, Fados, if you didn't consider language a postmodernist fallacy you'd know the phrase is "sacred cow".
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Feb 28, 2017 16:04
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It's like you're unable to think besides these very defined partisan parameters, where the 'wrong' or 'right' term will immediately make you assign someone into the nazi, or pure of heart camp like some pathologic borderline patient. I just skim whenever you post so ignore my last replies.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:07
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Fados posted:It's like you're unable to think besides these very defined partisan parameters, where the 'wrong' or 'right' term will immediately make you assign someone into the nazi, or pure of heart camp like some pathologic borderline patient. All this is telling me is that you use slurs a lot but are offended by the thought that your actions reflect on you. And that you're angry about the existence of Thomas Pynchon.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:12
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When it comes to Operation wetback. Of course I believe in bringing in any Americans who were unjustly forced out. I also believe in compensation tho them and their families. However any of that Atzlan nonsense I cannot support. I have friends living in those states. None of them want to be part of Mexico.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:15
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i'm surprised there are still people supporting the DNC, although they are once again flouting their own bylaws to defend people who voted for perez the democratic party is anti-democratic, and people are still defending them 
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Feb 28, 2017 16:28
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Crowsbeak posted:When it comes to Operation wetback. Of course I believe in bringing in any Americans who were unjustly forced out. I also believe in compensation tho them and their families. However any of that Atzlan nonsense I cannot support. I have friends living in those states. None of them want to be part of Mexico. Eh... I don't quite think that was what Aztlán was all about. You can't really take a movement like that out of his historical context considering that was their way of resistance from both their parents' views as well as the views of racist Whites. Condiv posted:i'm surprised there are still people supporting the DNC, although they are once again flouting their own bylaws to defend people who voted for perez I don't see why you are surprised. Most people don't really care about DNC background politics.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:38
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just  at people saying the party will be easiest to change from the inside. that only works if they follow their own rules and don't just make poo poo up all the time. the dems have shown yet again (under supposedly progressive leadership even!) that they will ignore their own bylaws and charter when necessary to keep the left out of power.if the centrists in control aren't willing to run the party in good faith then how are we supposed to even work with them? voting for centrists will give them more power to lock us out, so lesser-evil voting for centrists works against us too. the only strategy, if we want to take over the party, is to start voting leftist only. let the party bleed its centrists until only leftists are left or its dead and we can form a new party.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:41
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blackguy32 posted:I don't see why you are surprised. Most people don't really care about DNC background politics. the people defending the DNC to the death in this thread sure do. they just don't care about the dnc being corrupt as hell i guess 
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Feb 28, 2017 16:43
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Are we supposed to feel threatened by a white Oklahoman refusing to vote for Democrats?
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Feb 28, 2017 16:44
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blackguy32 posted:Eh... I don't quite think that was what Aztlán was all about. You can't really take a movement like that out of his historical context considering that was their way of resistance from both their parents' views as well as the views of racist Whites. Hey Stone Cold was suggesting that the land we hold there is illegally held. That Land has been held by Americans for 170 years. Also nearly everyone who lives there (99%) want to stay part of America. Look anyone who suffered from that horrible operation deserves compensation no doubt.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Hey Stone Cold was suggesting that the land we hold there is illegally held. That Land has been held by Americans for 170 years. Also nearly everyone who lives there (99%) want to stay part of America. Look anyone who suffered from that horrible operation deserves compensation no doubt. It is. It was taken in a war of aggression by the United States. Germany didn't get to keep any of its territory seized under the Nazis, why should we?
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Feb 28, 2017 16:45
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